Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 268 in MSG Usman vs Colby 2, Rose vs Zhang 2

Tron Carter · Post #461 » by **Tron Carter** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:24 pm

give tkz his title shot. read a report that he had been training himself until a year ago? unbelievable

Post #462 » by **j4remi** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:11 pm

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-fans-perspective/e/66149322?autoplay=true

Did a quick 20 minute drop after UFC in Korea to talk about the state of the FW division. KZ steamrolling Frankie and the gassing of the Volkanovski performance.

On Frankie vs KZ, I wondered if the fact Frankie was prepping to cut down to 135 may have played a role in how easily he got hurt. But then again, Zombie's countering on the jabs was crazy and that uppercut counter especially is nuts.

We rewatched Max vs Volkanovski right before recording and two things stood out to me, one that the commentators didn't have much to talk about so the leg kicks got magnified in a way they normally don't and two the unofficial fight stats that they showed after the fight were totally off base compared to what Fight Metric has up (and by eye test, I assume the Fight Metric tallies are the real data to run off of). Either way, I still think this performance is blown way out of proportion after three watch throughs and my bold call is Alex won't defend his belt one time assuming Zombie or Max is next. He'll lose to both.

HarthorneWingo · Post #463 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:52 pm

j4remi wrote:https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-fans-perspective/e/66149322?autoplay=true

Did a quick 20 minute drop after UFC in Korea to talk about the state of the FW division. KZ steamrolling Frankie and the gassing of the Volkanovski performance.

On Frankie vs KZ, I wondered if the fact Frankie was prepping to cut down to 135 may have played a role in how easily he got hurt. But then again, Zombie's countering on the jabs was crazy and that uppercut counter especially is nuts.

We rewatched Max vs Volkanovski right before recording and two things stood out to me, one that the commentators didn't have much to talk about so the leg kicks got magnified in a way they normally don't and two the unofficial fight stats that they showed after the fight were totally off base compared to what Fight Metric has up (and by eye test, I assume the Fight Metric tallies are the real data to run off of). Either way, I still think this performance is blown way out of proportion after three watch throughs and my bold call is Alex won't defend his belt one time assuming Zombie or Max is next. He'll lose to both.

There was lots of speculation that Frankie's prepping to cut down to 135 was going to be a problem in this fight for him. And, as you state, that's not to take anything away from Zombie. Could Frankie have done a favor for Dana by taking this fight? I don't know enough of the details relating to that but it smells like it to me.

That's some bold talk about Volkanowski. I only watch the fight that one time so now I'm going to go back and watch it again. I thought it was a pretty dominant performance by him. I'll reserve any further comment given that you've watch the fight 3 times. I'm going to keep your comments in minds when I watch it again.

So Masvidal wants Conor and not Usman. Maybe he thinks he'll lose to Usman and then there goes the Conor fight? Bye bye.

HarthorneWingo · Post #464 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:55 pm

Tron Carter wrote:give tkz his title shot. read a report that he had been training himself until a year ago? unbelievable

They charge too much for those camps. It's all in the mind. Wax on, wax off, Tron san.

Post #465 » by **j4remi** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:57 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:There was lots of speculation that Frankie's prepping to cut down to 135 was going to be a problem in this fight for him. And, as you state, that's not to take anything away from Zombie. Could Frankie have done a favor for Dana by taking this fight? I don't know enough of the details relating to that but it smells like it to me.

That's some bold talk about Volkanowski. I only watch the fight that one time so now I'm going to go back and watch it again. I thought it was a pretty dominant performance by him. I'll reserve any further comment given that you've watch the fight 3 times. I'm going to keep your comments in minds when I watch it again.

So Masvidal wants Conor and not Usman. Maybe he thinks he'll lose to Usman and then there goes the Conor fight? Bye bye.

I definitely agree on Frankie. He took a completely different style of opponent who was gonna be much bigger on short notice. That damage he took should have been expected (no one gets out of fighting Zombie without going through it). I'm really pissed that Sandhagen got screwed like this, it sounds like he got a big promise in return but we'll see. He just lost a chance to fight a legend and KZ stole all that shine.

On Volk, most people co-sign your take. I just think it's a "mute the tv and watch it back" fight through and through. I really think Max has a clear road to victory. When he crowded Volkanovski more and punished the high guard by going to the body, he started to find success that will be harder to address for Alex than the leg kicks imo.

I definitely think Masvidal is thinking that he should get the bag and then worry about Usman. That title fight isn't going anywhere, Masvidal's the biggest payday in the division once McGregor drops to 155. So he can take the safer, more winnable fight that even pays him more and then he can take the high risk, high reward fight against Usman. That'd leave a Leon Edwards rematch probably...though you know who the highest ranked fighter is that Kamaru hasn't beaten yet besides Jorge? My sleeper pick Wonderboy :nod:

...it'll never happen but I'd love it.

HarthorneWingo · Post #466 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:46 pm

j4remi wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:There was lots of speculation that Frankie's prepping to cut down to 135 was going to be a problem in this fight for him. And, as you state, that's not to take anything away from Zombie. Could Frankie have done a favor for Dana by taking this fight? I don't know enough of the details relating to that but it smells like it to me.

That's some bold talk about Volkanowski. I only watch the fight that one time so now I'm going to go back and watch it again. I thought it was a pretty dominant performance by him. I'll reserve any further comment given that you've watch the fight 3 times. I'm going to keep your comments in minds when I watch it again.

So Masvidal wants Conor and not Usman. Maybe he thinks he'll lose to Usman and then there goes the Conor fight? Bye bye.

I definitely agree on Frankie. He took a completely different style of opponent who was gonna be much bigger on short notice. That damage he took should have been expected (no one gets out of fighting Zombie without going through it). I'm really pissed that Sandhagen got screwed like this, it sounds like he got a big promise in return but we'll see. He just lost a chance to fight a legend and KZ stole all that shine.

On Volk, most people co-sign your take. I just think it's a "mute the tv and watch it back" fight through and through. I really think Max has a clear road to victory. When he crowded Volkanovski more and punished the high guard by going to the body, he started to find success that will be harder to address for Alex than the leg kicks imo.

I definitely think Masvidal is thinking that he should get the bag and then worry about Usman. That title fight isn't going anywhere, Masvidal's the biggest payday in the division once McGregor drops to 155. So he can take the safer, more winnable fight that even pays him more and then he can take the high risk, high reward fight against Usman. That'd leave a Leon Edwards rematch probably...though you know who the highest ranked fighter is that Kamaru hasn't beaten yet besides Jorge? My sleeper pick Wonderboy ...it'll never happen but I'd love it.

THAT would be a fascinating fight. Hopefully, Stephen starts chirping about that in his own mild-mannered, humble, southern gentleman that he is. He's too nice!!!! :lol:

Post #467 » by **j4remi** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:58 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:THAT would be a fascinating fight. Hopefully, Stephen starts chirping about that in his own mild-mannered, humble, southern gentleman that he is. He's too nice!!!!

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

...I'd really be hype to see if Usman could trap Wonderboy, no wrestler has been able to. Also sporting one of the only clear wins in Masvidal's entire career. Jorge's lost a number, but a bunch were contested split decisions.

HarthorneWingo · Post #468 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:15 am

Two of the greats. Quarry vs. Shavers

Watch on YouTube

HarthorneWingo · Post #469 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:05 am

Check out the video Masvidal made of him and Usman. Funny AF

https://www.mmamania.com/2019/12/26/21038360/jorge-masvidal-clowns-ufc-champ-kamaru-usman-video-retort-ufc

HarthorneWingo · Post #470 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Wed Jan 1, 2020 3:35 am

Pacheco vs Harrison 5 rounds on PFL on ESPN 2

waya · Post #471 » by **waya** » Wed Jan 1, 2020 8:16 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:Check out the video Masvidal made of him and Usman. Funny AF

https://www.mmamania.com/2019/12/26/21038360/jorge-masvidal-clowns-ufc-champ-kamaru-usman-video-retort-ufc

I like both fighters but I'll admit that was pretty great

HarthorneWingo · Post #472 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Wed Jan 1, 2020 10:04 am

waya wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Check out the video Masvidal made of him and Usman. Funny AF

https://www.mmamania.com/2019/12/26/21038360/jorge-masvidal-clowns-ufc-champ-kamaru-usman-video-retort-ufc

I like both fighters but I'll admit that was pretty great

That's what I like about Jorge. He's got some media/trash talk skills and then backs its up. I love both Diaz brothers but Jorge took it to Nate hard.

I subscribed to Jorge's YouTube channel. He has a video about the one fighter he was actually afraid of before he got in the ring with him and that was Yves Edwards. Jorge talks about why the fight was important of the things he learned about himself which he carries today. That's part of what I love about boxing and martial arts. Not only confronting and overcoming your own fears but learning the lessons from that confrontation whatever the result.

Tron Carter · Post #473 » by **Tron Carter** » Wed Jan 1, 2020 6:44 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
waya wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Check out the video Masvidal made of him and Usman. Funny AF

https://www.mmamania.com/2019/12/26/21038360/jorge-masvidal-clowns-ufc-champ-kamaru-usman-video-retort-ufc

I like both fighters but I'll admit that was pretty great

That's what I like about Jorge. He's got some media/trash talk skills and then backs its up. I love both Diaz brothers but Jorge took it to Nate hard.

I subscribed to Jorge's YouTube channel. He has a video about the one fighter he was actually afraid of before he got in the ring with him and that was Yves Edwards. Jorge talks about why the fight was important of the things he learned about himself which he carries today. That's part of what I love about boxing and martial arts. Not only confronting and overcoming your own fears but learning the lessons from that confrontation whatever the result.

he has a fantastic social media presence now. I agree with everything you said jorge is one of my all time favorite fighters. a true street disciple who mastered his craft at the highest level.

Post #474 » by **j4remi** » Fri Jan 3, 2020 2:43 pm

PFL was kinda bland. I'm pissed I missed the Rizin new year event, a lot of heads said it was hands down the best event of the year. I watched Combate Americas one night tournament to close the year and that one was a lot of fun. Adesanya for my fighter of 2019, what a rise to stardom for that man with a debatable fight of the year against Gastelum in the mix and a dominant win over Whitaker.

In other news...Dana's hating on Gaethje still, even though that's the rightful next contender at lightweight. Cerrone's coach basically said all they need to watch for is Conor's left, not the worst evaluation as long as you're mindful of kicks and tactics that push you toward the left hand. And also this,

Read on Twitter

After Aldo's successful weightcut, I'll hold my thoughts. If this works out, Barboza has a gang of interesting match-ups. Edson vs Yair anyone?

Tron Carter · Post #475 » by **Tron Carter** » Fri Jan 3, 2020 3:04 pm

rizin 20 was incredible. I so badly wish the ufc would replace women’s featherweight with antomweight. Hamerderlei Silva vs Ayaka Hamasaki was one of the greatest female bouts I’ve ever seen. also loved watching the asakura brothers fight. I know Kai gets all the hype but I really believe Mikuru is the more skilled striker. Manel Kape is also world class at 135and definitely could contend in the UFC. **** One Championship and Bellator Japan, this is the spiritual successor to Pride.

newyorker4ever · Post #476 » by **newyorker4ever** » Fri Jan 3, 2020 4:02 pm

j4remi wrote:PFL was kinda bland. I'm pissed I missed the Rizin new year event, a lot of heads said it was hands down the best event of the year. I watched Combate Americas one night tournament to close the year and that one was a lot of fun. Adesanya for my fighter of 2019, what a rise to stardom for that man with a debatable fight of the year against Gastelum in the mix and a dominant win over Whitaker.

In other news...Dana's hating on Gaethje still, even though that's the rightful next contender at lightweight. Cerrone's coach basically said all they need to watch for is Conor's left, not the worst evaluation as long as you're mindful of kicks and tactics that push you toward the left hand. And also this,

Read on Twitter

After Aldo's successful weightcut, I'll hold my thoughts. If this works out, Barboza has a gang of interesting match-ups. Edson vs Yair anyone?

That Natan Schulte vs Loik Radzhabov fight wasn't bland. That was a great fight but the rest weren't all that exciting.

Post #477 » by **j4remi** » Fri Jan 3, 2020 5:00 pm

Tron Carter wrote:rizin 20 was incredible. I so badly wish the ufc would replace women’s featherweight with antomweight. Hamerderlei Silva vs Ayaka Hamasaki was one of the greatest female bouts I’ve ever seen. also loved watching the asakura brothers fight. I know Kai gets all the hype but I really believe Mikuru is the more skilled striker. Manel Kape is also world class at 135and definitely could contend in the UFC. **** One Championship and Bellator Japan, this is the spiritual successor to Pride.

I'm an absolute PRIDE stan, the type to bring up the PRIDE rules every chance I get :lol:

...I cosign the hell outta you on this. Rizin is the closest to PRIDE we've gotten, even though I do like ONE. ONE just has a lot of sketchy things surrounding it that make it harder to stan. I do want to say that of all the female fighters coming up, Stamp Fairtex in ONE is truly special. She's the main subject I want to cover when I talk about Thai fighters breaking into MMA for a podcast (with the Muay Thai boss that I had on in a previous episode Joe, he trained in Thailand as well).

Post #478 » by **j4remi** » Fri Jan 3, 2020 8:40 pm

Obligatory Conor post...he's saying a lot but who knows. According to this interview he wants Masvidal, Colby, Usman, Gaethje, Tony or Khabib...he did better than he gets credit for against Khabib...he had a bad camp and disrespected his team (I respect him owning that much at least)...and he's back to original Conor, here to have fun. No beef, just wants to fight the best and win the gold.

My hot take: I'll believe it when I see it. Dude always talked the talk but he stopped walking the walk a long time ago and he'll need to prove himself all over again. Beating Cerrone is a start but barely a start and I'd like to see the allegations hanging over his head cleared up before I really put much more focus on him.

Watch on YouTube

waya · Post #479 » by **waya** » Tue Jan 7, 2020 5:22 am

j4remi wrote:PFL was kinda bland. I'm pissed I missed the Rizin new year event, a lot of heads said it was hands down the best event of the year. I watched Combate Americas one night tournament to close the year and that one was a lot of fun. Adesanya for my fighter of 2019, what a rise to stardom for that man with a debatable fight of the year against Gastelum in the mix and a dominant win over Whitaker.

In other news...Dana's hating on Gaethje still, even though that's the rightful next contender at lightweight. Cerrone's coach basically said all they need to watch for is Conor's left, not the worst evaluation as long as you're mindful of kicks and tactics that push you toward the left hand. And also this,

Read on Twitter

After Aldo's successful weightcut, I'll hold my thoughts. If this works out, Barboza has a gang of interesting match-ups. Edson vs Yair anyone?

I wanna know what the hell Barboza looks like physically at 145. Dude already looks like a 5% body fat shredded sculpture of muscle at 155.

HarthorneWingo · Post #480 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Tue Jan 7, 2020 6:08 am

j4remi wrote:Obligatory Conor post...he's saying a lot but who knows. According to this interview he wants Masvidal, Colby, Usman, Gaethje, Tony or Khabib...he did better than he gets credit for against Khabib...he had a bad camp and disrespected his team (I respect him owning that much at least)...and he's back to original Conor, here to have fun. No beef, just wants to fight the best and win the gold.

My hot take: I'll believe it when I see it. Dude always talked the talk but he stopped walking the walk a long time ago and he'll need to prove himself all over again. Beating Cerrone is a start but barely a start and I'd like to see the allegations hanging over his head cleared up before I really put much more focus on him.

Watch on YouTube

Kavanaugh saying that "this is the best that Conor's every looked." :lol:

Also says that Conor is calling the shots in this training camp and they're just following his direction. To me, all that says that Conor's going to get his ass kicked. Cowboy is battle tested. Conor's been drinking booze and taking swipes at old men in bars.