Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player

[god shammgod]

there's no can't miss "gonna win all the championships" guy in this draft. those guys are few and far between that you can identify before they're even in the league. there's been two guys like that since the late 90s. duncan and lebron. nobody really was sure about anyone else. the 3rd guy with the most buzz since then was actually zion.

You forgot about Shaq.

He was before Duncan. But he is on the list. Then Ewing (didn't live up to it) then Magic before that. Then Kareem before that. Wilt before him and Russell before that.

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right. shaq was 95. and it was slightly easier to identify those guys in the past because guys attended college for more than 1 year. and it was still few and far between.

[NewKnicks]

the knicks are a game and a half away from home court in the 1st round right now. it's not a great conference and the record is mediocre but it doesn't matter. you can't expect them to tank at this position, it's not realistic.

Knicks are also 2.5 games from the 4th slot in the lottery.

so you might get that lottery pick you want after all. but unless they fall back there naturally, they're not gonna make plans to get there.

Agree with you there.. I get the feeling that this team is ready to try to make moves to continue to move up the ladder now, as opposed to building this over several more years.

I don't want that, I do want to continue to build through the draft, but I'm not hoping to get in the lottery. If the team plays well and continues to move up in the standings, I'll be very happy about that as well.

I just don't think we have a lot of talent at the moment, so getting in the top 5 of this draft could significantly change the future outlook of this team. Let's say we land a Cade, or another one of the highly sought after players, and they turn out to be a #1, #2, or #3 on a championship team.. It would save this franchise. We wouldn't have to mortgage our future by trading for a Beal/Lavine, and we would not need to max out a free agent this offseason or next.

I just want us to win, and we need a lot more talent on this roster to do it.

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Why is almost everyone including our players acting like we're really good this year? We're two games under .500. Since when did that become a 'good team'?

We're 2 games under .500. That is a fact. That is not a good team. Not saying we won't become a good team, but we're not right now.

Such low expectations around here..

Nobody is acting like we’re really good. We’re a decent team that has surpassed expectations. We were only projected to win like 17 games this season. Nothing wrong with what the players are saying.

[br7knicks]

He was low IQ spin cycle ball hog last year. That's pretty much a fact. He may have looked a little better after fiz but...that spin cycle shyt continued into the preseason. Then it stopped but...there were a couple of games where he was back at it this year. Not like last year though. It was difficult to watch. Was he terrible? No. He got his but...it was nothing like this.

Thats pretty much trash when you consider the position on the floor he was last year, in the offensive system we ran (none) and the lineup/spacing we had around him.

If you don't think the conclusion for most posters was that he was terrible, or close to it, you're lying or or have been away from the boards for 1.5 years and fortunately missed out on some 'quality' analysis.

Me saying he wasn't terrible was being nice. He got his and he could play well enough but...he SUCKED when it came to the team. He wouldn't pass. Couldn't shoot the three. Turned the ball over in spin cycle mode quarter after quarter... game after game. That's a fact. I don't care what the reasons/excuses are for how he played. He got his and it hurt the team. There are valid reasons why a lot of people here wanted him gone. He played NOTHING like this season last year.

If you think he was good player for us... you're lying or you must have stopped watching for a year.

I think it's fair to say that everyone sees what they want to see.

Goes for me, and everyone.

The truth and evidence is there in the game footage

[prophet_of_rage]

You forgot about Shaq.

He was before Duncan. But he is on the list. Then Ewing (didn't live up to it) then Magic before that. Then Kareem before that. Wilt before him and Russell before that.

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right. shaq was 95. and it was slightly easier to identify those guys in the past because guys attended college for more than 1 year. and it was still few and far between.

92 but yes because they went to college and learned. Now everybody is drafting on potential.

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[FutureKnicksGM]

He was low IQ spin cycle ball hog last year. That's pretty much a fact. He may have looked a little better after fiz but...that spin cycle shyt continued into the preseason. Then it stopped but...there were a couple of games where he was back at it this year. Not like last year though. It was difficult to watch. Was he terrible? No. He got his but...it was nothing like this.

Thats pretty much trash when you consider the position on the floor he was last year, in the offensive system we ran (none) and the lineup/spacing we had around him.

If you don't think the conclusion for most posters was that he was terrible, or close to it, you're lying or or have been away from the boards for 1.5 years and fortunately missed out on some 'quality' analysis.

Me saying he wasn't terrible was being nice. He got his and he could play well enough but...he SUCKED when it came to the team. He wouldn't pass. Couldn't shoot the three. Turned the ball over in spin cycle mode quarter after quarter... game after game. That's a fact. I don't care what the reasons/excuses are for how he played. He got his and it hurt the team. There are valid reasons why a lot of people here wanted him gone. He played NOTHING like this season last year.

If you think he was good player for us... you're lying or you must have stopped watching for a year.

Those reasons you don't care about, are legit reasons that can help player perform better and teams play better basketball. Like we are literally seeing right now.

So Randle has gone from completely sucking to an all star caliber player? No.

He had a horrific start from 3 (8%) in the first month, last year but was trending back in the right direction, shooting 39% post all star break.

Of course he can pass, he has 6 triple doubles before he came to NY, and they ain't from blocking shots.

Pretty sure MJ and Lebron have used the spin move before too

A game under Miller below.

Watch on YouTube

[NewKnicks]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Why is almost everyone including our players acting like we're really good this year? We're two games under .500. Since when did that become a 'good team'?

We're 2 games under .500. That is a fact. That is not a good team. Not saying we won't become a good team, but we're not right now.

Such low expectations around here..

Nobody is acting like we’re really good. We’re a decent team that has surpassed expectations. We were only projected to win like 17 games this season. Nothing wrong with what the players are saying.

Okay, I'm being a little harsh as far as the player's talk.. I do want them to be very confident, after all.

[FutureKnicksGM]

Thats pretty much trash when you consider the position on the floor he was last year, in the offensive system we ran (none) and the lineup/spacing we had around him.

If you don't think the conclusion for most posters was that he was terrible, or close to it, you're lying or or have been away from the boards for 1.5 years and fortunately missed out on some 'quality' analysis.

Me saying he wasn't terrible was being nice. He got his and he could play well enough but...he SUCKED when it came to the team. He wouldn't pass. Couldn't shoot the three. Turned the ball over in spin cycle mode quarter after quarter... game after game. That's a fact. I don't care what the reasons/excuses are for how he played. He got his and it hurt the team. There are valid reasons why a lot of people here wanted him gone. He played NOTHING like this season last year.

If you think he was good player for us... you're lying or you must have stopped watching for a year.

I think it's fair to say that everyone sees what they want to see.

Goes for me, and everyone.

The truth and evidence is there in the game footage

Yep - but it also helps to have to some comprehension of the game of basketball.

[god shammgod]

He was before Duncan. But he is on the list. Then Ewing (didn't live up to it) then Magic before that. Then Kareem before that. Wilt before him and Russell before that.

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right. shaq was 95. and it was slightly easier to identify those guys in the past because guys attended college for more than 1 year. and it was still few and far between.

92 but yes because they went to college and learned. Now everybody is drafting on potential.

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right. 95 was when he went to the finals. getting old. lol

[Gravy]

Best case scenario is we make the playoffs, guys get that experience and we draft really good players

Worst case: we dont make the playoffs and draft busts even if we get high picks.

[spree2kawhi]

I still think all three are better basketball players than Wade was. Just for context, I've been watching basketball intensely since 1992/93, so I'm not just too young to know Wade's game. I watched every game of his 2006 title run and still I can see when someone else is more talented than him.

You're flat out wrong on Wade's shooting. He was a D-League three point shooter compared to those three and overall basically couldn't shoot a three to save his life. He was a better finisher at the rim than Klay of course, but not better offensively in any regard than Harden or McGrady. Down two, I don't give him the shot over any of those three.

Wade was a great defender, of course. He was excellent at picking his spots and getting there, but the others are probably better at that and the same may be the case for Booker already, too. It gets tough when talking about defense and there really isn't much I can say to favor any of the others except for possibly Thompson.

After all, I stand by what I proposed: You put any of those three on Wade's teams and you get better results. His teammates were always off the charts.

It's the easy way out to credit Wade with the benefit of the doubt because of the achievements. But you can't tell me there's any scenario in which Wade upgrades a particular team any of those three players on. Wade on the Warriors? Worse. Wade next to Westbrook? Worse. Wade next to Yao? Still nothing. T-mac's is the saddest story. I'd have wished for him to play with Shaq or LeBron. He's literally one of the top talents to ever play the game and imo Wade couldn't have hung with him.

Wow. I don't even know where to start. We must have watched a different player. I know a lot will agree with me. Fox Sports has Wade as the 17th best player OF ALL TIME.

You're really selling Wade short. Wade carried teams before adding the big three. You need to go back and look, I'm not going to do it for you.

I'd love some back up here from other posters. Wade is one of the best players of all-time, PERIOD. That can't be questioned by you or anyone else.

Wade was the glue on those Big 3 years. He didn't care about stats, and did everything to keep that team going. Assists, steals, defense, scoring as needed. Wade also had an innate ability to take over games, and make huge shots, year after year. To sit her and say Harden is better than Wade at this time in Harden's career is not fair at all. Harden plays ZERO defense. Yes, he's one of the best scorers of all-time, but Wade was a way better all-around player than Harden will ever be.

Wade is top 3 shooting guards of all-time. McGrady was incredible, but his career was limited due to injuries. Wade obviously had a way better career. The only one of those three you could say is in the same league as Wade is Klay, but I still think Wade is the better player.

Again, you're really underselling one of the best players of all-time. Wade made every team he played for so much better.

Agreed. Wade is criminally underappreciated

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I understand someone would quickly say that, but what exactly is there that you could use as an argument for Wade and against Harden, McGrady and Klay when it comes to talent (which was the initial question) or skill?

I didn't hear any. It's easy to call out some disrespect. But is there any?

[NewKnicks]

Wow. I don't even know where to start. We must have watched a different player. I know a lot will agree with me. Fox Sports has Wade as the 17th best player OF ALL TIME.

You're really selling Wade short. Wade carried teams before adding the big three. You need to go back and look, I'm not going to do it for you.

I'd love some back up here from other posters. Wade is one of the best players of all-time, PERIOD. That can't be questioned by you or anyone else.

Wade was the glue on those Big 3 years. He didn't care about stats, and did everything to keep that team going. Assists, steals, defense, scoring as needed. Wade also had an innate ability to take over games, and make huge shots, year after year. To sit her and say Harden is better than Wade at this time in Harden's career is not fair at all. Harden plays ZERO defense. Yes, he's one of the best scorers of all-time, but Wade was a way better all-around player than Harden will ever be.

Wade is top 3 shooting guards of all-time. McGrady was incredible, but his career was limited due to injuries. Wade obviously had a way better career. The only one of those three you could say is in the same league as Wade is Klay, but I still think Wade is the better player.

Again, you're really underselling one of the best players of all-time. Wade made every team he played for so much better.

Agreed. Wade is criminally underappreciated

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I understand someone would quickly say that, but what exactly is there that you could use as an argument for Wade and against Harden, McGrady and Klay when it comes to talent (which was the initial question) or skill?

I didn't hear any. It's easy to call out some disrespect. But is there any?

Yes. Wade was as talented as any of those three, if not more.

[spree2kawhi]

Are we talking about Wade or Booker? Wade played a completely different game than the 3 you listed. But yes, I do think Wade was better than those 3. Wade did everything those 3 can do but in one package. He could be a 3 point specialist when needed, he was an incredible finisher, and played better D than all 3. Wade did it all. Oh, and he won a few chips in the process too.

And this is coming from someone that hated that dude. I was never a fan of Miami. But respect for talent is respect for talent without goggles on.

I still think all three are better basketball players than Wade was. Just for context, I've been watching basketball intensely since 1992/93, so I'm not just too young to know Wade's game. I watched every game of his 2006 title run and still I can see when someone else is more talented than him.

You're flat out wrong on Wade's shooting. He was a D-League three point shooter compared to those three and overall basically couldn't shoot a three to save his life. He was a better finisher at the rim than Klay of course, but not better offensively in any regard than Harden or McGrady. Down two, I don't give him the shot over any of those three.

Wade was a great defender, of course. He was excellent at picking his spots and getting there, but the others are probably better at that and the same may be the case for Booker already, too. It gets tough when talking about defense and there really isn't much I can say to favor any of the others except for possibly Thompson.

After all, I stand by what I proposed: You put any of those three on Wade's teams and you get better results. His teammates were always off the charts.

It's the easy way out to credit Wade with the benefit of the doubt because of the achievements. But you can't tell me there's any scenario in which Wade upgrades a particular team any of those three players on. Wade on the Warriors? Worse. Wade next to Westbrook? Worse. Wade next to Yao? Still nothing. T-mac's is the saddest story. I'd have wished for him to play with Shaq or LeBron. He's literally one of the top talents to ever play the game and imo Wade couldn't have hung with him.

Wow. I don't even know where to start. We must have watched a different player. I know a lot will agree with me. Fox Sports has Wade as the 17th best player OF ALL TIME.

You're really selling Wade short. Wade carried teams before adding the big three. You need to go back and look, I'm not going to do it for you.

I'd love some back up here from other posters. Wade is one of the best players of all-time, PERIOD. That can't be questioned by you or anyone else.

Wade was the glue on those Big 3 years. He didn't care about stats, and did everything to keep that team going. Assists, steals, defense, scoring as needed. Wade also had an innate ability to take over games, and make huge shots, year after year. To sit her and say Harden is better than Wade at this time in Harden's career is not fair at all. Harden plays ZERO defense. Yes, he's one of the best scorers of all-time, but Wade was a way better all-around player than Harden will ever be.

Wade is top 3 shooting guards of all-time. McGrady was incredible, but his career was limited due to injuries. Wade obviously had a way better career. The only one of those three you could say is in the same league as Wade is Klay, but I still think Wade is the better player.

Again, you're really underselling one of the best players of all-time. Wade made every team he played for so much better.

Well dude, seems like you have nothing to hold against the notion that Wade might only chip in 6th at his position. Maybe it helps that Harden is actually a PG. But then again, is Steph a SG sometimes? No, gladly he isn't. But they're all better than Wade was, my friend.

I hate Harden, but he's better. Kyrie isn't, but Harden is. People call Klay a role player, but he's better than Wade was and if you listen to your heart, you know it. He doesn't need to dribble the ball to be that kind of monster. And T-Mac is easily the most purely talented basketball player outside of Jordan, Kobe, LeBron and Durant to ever play. We don't say that about wade because the best you can come up with is "he's #17 all time". I think that's a reach despite the championships he won next to Shaq and LeBron. Excusé moi.

Let me tell you something:

Dwyane your **** overrated flash Wade is a career 29% three point shooter. Don't ALL CAPS me, get your **** straight.

[spree2kawhi]

Agreed. Wade is criminally underappreciated

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I understand someone would quickly say that, but what exactly is there that you could use as an argument for Wade and against Harden, McGrady and Klay when it comes to talent (which was the initial question) or skill?

I didn't hear any. It's easy to call out some disrespect. But is there any?

Yes. Wade was as talented as any of those three, if not more.

Barely. Right place, right time.

Still didn't hear any argument.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Thats pretty much trash when you consider the position on the floor he was last year, in the offensive system we ran (none) and the lineup/spacing we had around him.

If you don't think the conclusion for most posters was that he was terrible, or close to it, you're lying or or have been away from the boards for 1.5 years and fortunately missed out on some 'quality' analysis.

Me saying he wasn't terrible was being nice. He got his and he could play well enough but...he SUCKED when it came to the team. He wouldn't pass. Couldn't shoot the three. Turned the ball over in spin cycle mode quarter after quarter... game after game. That's a fact. I don't care what the reasons/excuses are for how he played. He got his and it hurt the team. There are valid reasons why a lot of people here wanted him gone. He played NOTHING like this season last year.

If you think he was good player for us... you're lying or you must have stopped watching for a year.

I think it's fair to say that everyone sees what they want to see.

Goes for me, and everyone.

The truth and evidence is there in the game footage

Agreed. The other side of it is...we did have terrible coaching at first last year. Then we didn't really have much better under Miller but there was improvement. Randle was just doing what was asked of him with no real direction. This season....Thibs has him doing...basically what fiz was talking about to a point.....but much better and playing better defense. Night and day.

That's where the line is. People who support Randle feel the need to ignore what he actually played like and...have issues with people who didn't like the way he played last season. As if we are wrong about it.

[prophet_of_rage]

Me saying he wasn't terrible was being nice. He got his and he could play well enough but...he SUCKED when it came to the team. He wouldn't pass. Couldn't shoot the three. Turned the ball over in spin cycle mode quarter after quarter... game after game. That's a fact. I don't care what the reasons/excuses are for how he played. He got his and it hurt the team. There are valid reasons why a lot of people here wanted him gone. He played NOTHING like this season last year.

If you think he was good player for us... you're lying or you must have stopped watching for a year.

I think it's fair to say that everyone sees what they want to see.

Goes for me, and everyone.

The truth and evidence is there in the game footage

Agreed. The other side of it is...we did have terrible coaching at first last year. Then we didn't really have much better under Miller but there was improvement. Randle was just doing what was asked of him with no real direction. This season....Thibs has him doing...basically what fiz was talking about to a point.....but much better and playing better defense. Night and day.

That's where the line is. People who support Randle feel the need to ignore what he actually played like and...have issues with people who didn't like the way he played last season. As if we are wrong about it.

It's not that he was playing great last year. The argument was or at least should ne that the fans needed ti be patient as he learned a new role under a coach that gave him all the rope in the world tp figure it out.

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[whocares1]

I still think all three are better basketball players than Wade was. Just for context, I've been watching basketball intensely since 1992/93, so I'm not just too young to know Wade's game. I watched every game of his 2006 title run and still I can see when someone else is more talented than him.

You're flat out wrong on Wade's shooting. He was a D-League three point shooter compared to those three and overall basically couldn't shoot a three to save his life. He was a better finisher at the rim than Klay of course, but not better offensively in any regard than Harden or McGrady. Down two, I don't give him the shot over any of those three.

Wade was a great defender, of course. He was excellent at picking his spots and getting there, but the others are probably better at that and the same may be the case for Booker already, too. It gets tough when talking about defense and there really isn't much I can say to favor any of the others except for possibly Thompson.

After all, I stand by what I proposed: You put any of those three on Wade's teams and you get better results. His teammates were always off the charts.

It's the easy way out to credit Wade with the benefit of the doubt because of the achievements. But you can't tell me there's any scenario in which Wade upgrades a particular team any of those three players on. Wade on the Warriors? Worse. Wade next to Westbrook? Worse. Wade next to Yao? Still nothing. T-mac's is the saddest story. I'd have wished for him to play with Shaq or LeBron. He's literally one of the top talents to ever play the game and imo Wade couldn't have hung with him.

Wow. I don't even know where to start. We must have watched a different player. I know a lot will agree with me. Fox Sports has Wade as the 17th best player OF ALL TIME.

You're really selling Wade short. Wade carried teams before adding the big three. You need to go back and look, I'm not going to do it for you.

I'd love some back up here from other posters. Wade is one of the best players of all-time, PERIOD. That can't be questioned by you or anyone else.

Wade was the glue on those Big 3 years. He didn't care about stats, and did everything to keep that team going. Assists, steals, defense, scoring as needed. Wade also had an innate ability to take over games, and make huge shots, year after year. To sit her and say Harden is better than Wade at this time in Harden's career is not fair at all. Harden plays ZERO defense. Yes, he's one of the best scorers of all-time, but Wade was a way better all-around player than Harden will ever be.

Wade is top 3 shooting guards of all-time. McGrady was incredible, but his career was limited due to injuries. Wade obviously had a way better career. The only one of those three you could say is in the same league as Wade is Klay, but I still think Wade is the better player.

Again, you're really underselling one of the best players of all-time. Wade made every team he played for so much better.

Well dude, seems like you have nothing to hold against the notion that Wade might only chip in 6th at his position. Maybe it helps that Harden is actually a PG. But then again, is Steph a SG sometimes? No, gladly he isn't. But they're all better than Wade was, my friend.

I hate Harden, but he's better. Kyrie isn't, but Harden is. People call Klay a role player, but he's better than Wade was and if you listen to your heart, you know it. He doesn't need to dribble the ball to be that kind of monster. And T-Mac is easily the most purely talented basketball player outside of Jordan, Kobe, LeBron and Durant to ever play. We don't say that about wade because the best you can come up with is "he's #17 all time". I think that's a reach despite the championships he won next to Shaq and LeBron. Excusé moi.

Let me tell you something:

Dwyane your **** overrated flash Wade is a career 29% three point shooter. Don't ALL CAPS me, get your **** straight.

Wade is definitely better than Klay tho lol. Wade won a championship with past his prime Shaq while Klay was always in a supporting role and was never the focal point of an opposing team’s defense. If you compare the actual parts of the game, Wade is by far the more skilled player. Klay is the better shooter for sure but ask anyone that’s played the game if Klay is better than Wade and you’ll get laughed at.

[dakomish23]

The only team the last 30 years to win a title without a lottery pick in their starting 5 are the Raptors, and they got the player that helped them do it by trading two former lottery picks.


Title teams are littered with high picks, the Raptors are the only exception to that rule. You draft in the lottery and you get franchise players more often than you do anywhere else. You draft in the top 5 and you are more likely to draft a HOFer than anywhere else, this isn't rocket science.

Seems simple enough to me. I’m not even rooting for the tank (PTKLWTR) but the legends are mostly top 5 guys.

Make a list of all time greats 1-25 and you’re going to see 80% all top 5 picks. Maybe even higher.

Until you get to Pippen, Stockton, Malone, Rodman ... sure most of the all time greats go top 5 but they have to be all time greats.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Rodman in top 25?

Now I would like to see 1-25 for you

[whocares1]

Me saying he wasn't terrible was being nice. He got his and he could play well enough but...he SUCKED when it came to the team. He wouldn't pass. Couldn't shoot the three. Turned the ball over in spin cycle mode quarter after quarter... game after game. That's a fact. I don't care what the reasons/excuses are for how he played. He got his and it hurt the team. There are valid reasons why a lot of people here wanted him gone. He played NOTHING like this season last year.

If you think he was good player for us... you're lying or you must have stopped watching for a year.

I think it's fair to say that everyone sees what they want to see.

Goes for me, and everyone.

The truth and evidence is there in the game footage

Agreed. The other side of it is...we did have terrible coaching at first last year. Then we didn't really have much better under Miller but there was improvement. Randle was just doing what was asked of him with no real direction. This season....Thibs has him doing...basically what fiz was talking about to a point.....but much better and playing better defense. Night and day.

That's where the line is. People who support Randle feel the need to ignore what he actually played like and...have issues with people who didn't like the way he played last season. As if we are wrong about it.

The team itself is running defensive sets that minimalize Randle’s deficiencies on defense, while Randle’s offense has skyrocketed because he’s making smarter decisions with the ball and I’m sure he worked extremely hard on his craft over the long break. I mean people were mad that Randle was being used like a guard last year but that’s more or less what’s he’s been used as with Thibs. He’s just making better decisions while simultaneously making difficult shots that he was missing last year.

[prophet_of_rage]

Seems simple enough to me. I’m not even rooting for the tank (PTKLWTR) but the legends are mostly top 5 guys.

Make a list of all time greats 1-25 and you’re going to see 80% all top 5 picks. Maybe even higher.

Until you get to Pippen, Stockton, Malone, Rodman ... sure most of the all time greats go top 5 but they have to be all time greats.

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Rodman in top 25?

Now I would like to see 1-25 for you

Is that the best you've got?

The point remains the top 5 frequently doesn't yield an all time great because all time greats don't come arpund that often.

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