PG: Refs and Thibs f*Ck us

[robillionaire]

There is a larger and more disturbing pattern emerging ... 'Get Grimes out of here'

Thibs decides he's done with someone over probably not much -- I mean, Grimes is still a young player who has shown significant flashes, as well as always solid and disruptive defense -- so whatever he did could not be that bad

But Thibs sits on his throne and his former agent does whatever he wants

That's not a recipe for success

I realize it has something to do with the fact that the team has had a good season ... but inserting Burks was a bad idea

The injuries are piling up and he may be at fault for that

The Randle stuff is dormant now because he was playing well ... but any coach that buys into Randle this much raises red flags too ... I'm not going to ignore that just because the conventional wisdom is quiet on that now

Grimes should have stayed ... and whatever issues Thibs has are his problem ... he's the coach, he has to coach the guys he has and not send out wish lists for players

Besides, his wish list is ever changing. Presumably he approved Fournier and Austin Rivers. He probably doesn't like DD as much as we think he should ... and eventually he'll sour on Hart

When is enough enough

Playing a 3x all star isnt a red flag

[mpharris36]

Perhaps, but it all seems like quibbling over the least wrong tool for the designated job. Shuffling chairs on the Titanic doesn't change much in the big scheme of things. There's no replacing the players we don't have.

If it were up to me, I'd have sat everyone of importance for the last 3 games heading into AS break, if you want a peek into my mindset right now .

its not like the margin of error is not unreachable. Sure a better 1st half from brunson or a better call from an official we could have won that game. But also playing Duece for 5 minutes is kinda ridiculous in a game in Feb non the less. This is also not just a Burks convo. DD has been playing unsustainable minutes and it finally caught up to him last night. At what point is this lack of understanding for a coach going to derail our season?

During our stretch of 15 out of 17...duece was probably avg like 20 minutes a game or close to it. What ultimately has changed since then? Thibs basically only played a 7 man rotation last night with a couple short stints from Duece and Taj (so they really didn't even play).

It's really poor job if you ask me.

And it doesn't work usually. He will keep barking up the wrong tree with Burks tho

That's not gonna change

not only doesn't it work but the lack of depth due to injury has a lot to do with thibs.

Ihart jump in minutes for sure caused his Achilles aggravation. Mitch coming back out after he was injured did more serious damage to his injury. Randle came back in garbage time when we had a comfortable lead vs Miami.

We dodged a bullet with Brunson playing late vs Memphis (sure can an ankle go at anytime...sure but more usage allows more opportunity).

Now we lost DD.

[Deeeez Knicks]

its not like the margin of error is not unreachable. Sure a better 1st half from brunson or a better call from an official we could have won that game. But also playing Duece for 5 minutes is kinda ridiculous in a game in Feb non the less. This is also not just a Burks convo. DD has been playing unsustainable minutes and it finally caught up to him last night. At what point is this lack of understanding for a coach going to derail our season?

During our stretch of 15 out of 17...duece was probably avg like 20 minutes a game or close to it. What ultimately has changed since then? Thibs basically only played a 7 man rotation last night with a couple short stints from Duece and Taj (so they really didn't even play).

It's really poor job if you ask me.

And it doesn't work usually. He will keep barking up the wrong tree with Burks tho

That's not gonna change

not only doesn't it work but the lack of depth due to injury has a lot to do with thibs.

Ihart jump in minutes for sure caused his Achilles aggravation. Mitch coming back out after he was injured did more serious damage to his injury. Randle came back in garbage time when we had a comfortable lead vs Miami.

We dodged a bullet with Brunson playing late vs Memphis (sure can an ankle go at anytime...sure but more usage allows more opportunity).

Now we lost DD.

Grimes came back and played after he was hurt too. He’s still not back. OG was warming up ready to play, all of a sudden surgery

[cgmw]

There is a larger and more disturbing pattern emerging ... Get Grimes out of here

Thibs decides he's done with someone over probably not much -- I mean, Grimes is still a young player who has shown significant flashes, as well as always solid and disruptive defense -- so whatever he did could not be that bad

But Thibs sits on his throne and his former agent does whatever he wants

That's not a recipe for success

I realize it has something to do with the fact that the team has had a good season ... but inserting Burks was a bad idea

The injuries are piling up and he may be at fault for that

The Randle stuff is dormant now because he was playing well ... but any coach that buys into Randle this much raises red flags too ... I'm not going to ignore that just because the conventional wisdom is quiet on that now

Grimes should have stayed ... and whatever issues Thibs has are his problem ... he's the coach, he has to coach the guys he has and not send out wish lists for players

Besides, his wish list is ever changing. Presumably he approved Fournier and Austin Rivers. He probably doesn't like DD as much as we think he should ... and eventually he'll sour on Hart

When is enough enough

Emerging?

Thibs has been transparently Thibs for decades now. Why is any of this a surprise? His system is rigid, predictable, and the only players who get even the slightest bit of leeway are the one or two considered "stars," who basically get to do whatever they want without repercussion.

Grimes was a golden boy for a hot second because Thibs had wet dreams about him fitting exactly the rigid role he had in mind. Grimes either couldn't or wouldn't fit that role, so of course he had to go. And of course they replaced him with two guys over 32 years old who know how to put their heads down, attack the rim, and shoot open threes. Once OG is back (and a healthy center) the defensive lapses won't be as pronounced and nobody will miss Grimes.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

if i'm 6'5 and you're 6'1 but we have the same wingspan, who's reaching higher when we put our arm up ? lol

There are some weird NBA body types where this isn't always true, but for Deuce and Alec, Alec reaches higher.


But there are guys out there that have short necks and high shoulders, who reach higher than guys who are taller and similar wingspan.

[K_ick_God]

its not like the margin of error is not unreachable. Sure a better 1st half from brunson or a better call from an official we could have won that game. But also playing Duece for 5 minutes is kinda ridiculous in a game in Feb non the less. This is also not just a Burks convo. DD has been playing unsustainable minutes and it finally caught up to him last night. At what point is this lack of understanding for a coach going to derail our season?

During our stretch of 15 out of 17...duece was probably avg like 20 minutes a game or close to it. What ultimately has changed since then? Thibs basically only played a 7 man rotation last night with a couple short stints from Duece and Taj (so they really didn't even play).

It's really poor job if you ask me.

And it doesn't work usually. He will keep barking up the wrong tree with Burks tho

That's not gonna change

not only doesn't it work but the lack of depth due to injury has a lot to do with thibs.

Ihart jump in minutes for sure caused his Achilles aggravation. Mitch coming back out after he was injured did more serious damage to his injury. Randle came back in garbage time when we had a comfortable lead vs Miami.

We dodged a bullet with Brunson playing late vs Memphis (sure can an ankle go at anytime...sure but more usage allows more opportunity).

Now we lost DD.

Yeah chickens came home to roost pretty fast ... season is still salvageable if we get everyone back

But I have no faith in the dude ... the only way to properly use Burks is to have him not handle at all ... but we all know that is not happening. He'll be dribbling at the top. He should be off the ball and shoot a few times a game ... Reality: He's going to be handling and therefore shooting

I also think Bojan will share time with OG at like 70% of OG time. This idea that the new guys are going to be very minor players I think is wrong. I realize we have a ton of injuries now, but I'm pretty sure Burks gonna shoot 10 a game and Bojan is going to eat into OG's minutes -- Bo just the kind of guy Thibs does not have the willpower or foresight to keep on the bench for long

[god shammgod]

if i'm 6'5 and you're 6'1 but we have the same wingspan, who's reaching higher when we put our arm up ? lol

There are some weird NBA body types where this isn't always true, but for Deuce and Alec, Alec reaches higher.


But there are guys out there that have short necks and high shoulders, who reach higher than guys who are taller and similar wingspan.

[K_ick_God]

There is a larger and more disturbing pattern emerging ... Get Grimes out of here

Thibs decides he's done with someone over probably not much -- I mean, Grimes is still a young player who has shown significant flashes, as well as always solid and disruptive defense -- so whatever he did could not be that bad

But Thibs sits on his throne and his former agent does whatever he wants

That's not a recipe for success

I realize it has something to do with the fact that the team has had a good season ... but inserting Burks was a bad idea

The injuries are piling up and he may be at fault for that

The Randle stuff is dormant now because he was playing well ... but any coach that buys into Randle this much raises red flags too ... I'm not going to ignore that just because the conventional wisdom is quiet on that now

Grimes should have stayed ... and whatever issues Thibs has are his problem ... he's the coach, he has to coach the guys he has and not send out wish lists for players

Besides, his wish list is ever changing. Presumably he approved Fournier and Austin Rivers. He probably doesn't like DD as much as we think he should ... and eventually he'll sour on Hart

When is enough enough

Emerging?

Thibs has been transparently Thibs for decades now. Why is any of this a surprise? His system is rigid, predictable, and the only players who get even the slightest bit of leeway are the one or two considered "stars," who basically get to do whatever they want without repercussion.

Grimes was a golden boy for a hot second because Thibs had wet dreams about him fitting exactly the rigid role he had in mind. Grimes either couldn't or wouldn't fit that role, so of course he had to go. And of course they replaced him with two guys over 32 years old who know how to put their heads down, attack the rim, and shoot open threes. Once OG is back (and a healthy center) the defensive lapses won't be as pronounced and nobody will miss Grimes.

Rigidity yes but shuffling guys in and out seems new. I am not aware of his history in Minnesota really. But I don't think he was souring on guys and exiling them, or maybe he did, dunno

Overarching point: He should have been forced to stick with Grimes. If it makes Thibs' job less pleasant, well he has millions of green reasons to do a difficult job

[3toheadmelo]

i dont mind the losing since we're missing half the team. but have to admit, watching burks hijack the offense everytime he gets the ball brought back some awful flashbacks. you have to hope his role goes down significantly once we get healthy

[stuporman]

if i'm 6'5 and you're 6'1 but we have the same wingspan, who's reaching higher when we put our arm up ? lol

Do we get to include in the analysis that Deuce at 6-1 puts his arms up on defense and Burks at 6-5 never does or we gonna just go on raw stats because according to what people have come at me with on this forum raw stats tell us everything and the reality on the court which may not get caught in stats doesn't really exist?

[cgmw]

And it doesn't work usually. He will keep barking up the wrong tree with Burks tho

That's not gonna change

not only doesn't it work but the lack of depth due to injury has a lot to do with thibs.

Ihart jump in minutes for sure caused his Achilles aggravation. Mitch coming back out after he was injured did more serious damage to his injury. Randle came back in garbage time when we had a comfortable lead vs Miami.

We dodged a bullet with Brunson playing late vs Memphis (sure can an ankle go at anytime...sure but more usage allows more opportunity).

Now we lost DD.

Yeah chickens came home to roost pretty fast ... season is still salvageable if we get everyone back

But I have no faith in the dude ... the only way to properly use Burks is to have him not handle at all ... but we all know that is not happening. He'll be dribbling at the top. He should be off the ball and shoot a few times a game ... Reality: He's going to be handling and therefore shooting

I also think Bojan will share time with OG at like 70% of OG time. This idea that the new guys are going to be very minor players I think is wrong. I realize we have a ton of injuries now, but I'm pretty sure Burks gonna shoot 10 a game and Bojan is going to eat into OG's minutes -- Bo just the kind of guy Thibs does not have the willpower or foresight to keep on the bench for long

Salvageable? Get off the ledge, man.

You mean from losing 2 or 3 games now with half our team injured? Yeah I think they'll be just fine.

OG will not be affected by Bojan except that he won't have to play 42 mpg anymore which is a good thing because the guy isn't durable. And you're delusional if you think Thibs didn't acquire AB exactly to be the primary ballhandler when Brunson sits. IDK what about 4 years of Thibs or Burks' first stint here didn't tip you off, but the only person screwed by AB on the roster is Deuce. AB will play like 8 mpg during the playoffs.

Fully healthy Playoff rotation:

Hartenstein / Mitch
Randle / Bojan
OG / Bojan
DDV / Hart
JB / AB

[thebuzzardman]

if i'm 6'5 and you're 6'1 but we have the same wingspan, who's reaching higher when we put our arm up ? lol

There are some weird NBA body types where this isn't always true, but for Deuce and Alec, Alec reaches higher.


But there are guys out there that have short necks and high shoulders, who reach higher than guys who are taller and similar wingspan.

Dotson: Once a Knick always a Knick

[K_ick_God]

not only doesn't it work but the lack of depth due to injury has a lot to do with thibs.

Ihart jump in minutes for sure caused his Achilles aggravation. Mitch coming back out after he was injured did more serious damage to his injury. Randle came back in garbage time when we had a comfortable lead vs Miami.

We dodged a bullet with Brunson playing late vs Memphis (sure can an ankle go at anytime...sure but more usage allows more opportunity).

Now we lost DD.

Yeah chickens came home to roost pretty fast ... season is still salvageable if we get everyone back

But I have no faith in the dude ... the only way to properly use Burks is to have him not handle at all ... but we all know that is not happening. He'll be dribbling at the top. He should be off the ball and shoot a few times a game ... Reality: He's going to be handling and therefore shooting

I also think Bojan will share time with OG at like 70% of OG time. This idea that the new guys are going to be very minor players I think is wrong. I realize we have a ton of injuries now, but I'm pretty sure Burks gonna shoot 10 a game and Bojan is going to eat into OG's minutes -- Bo just the kind of guy Thibs does not have the willpower or foresight to keep on the bench for long

Salvageable? Get off the ledge, man.

You mean from losing 2 or 3 games now with half our team injured? Yeah I think they'll be just fine.

OG will not be affected by Bojan except that he won't have to play 42 mpg anymore which is a good thing because the guy isn't durable. And you're delusional if you think Thibs didn't acquire AB exactly to be the primary ballhandler when Brunson sits. IDK what about 4 years of Thibs or Burks' first stint here didn't tip you off, but the only person screwed by AB on the roster is Deuce. AB will play like 8 mpg during the playoffs.

Fully healthy Playoff rotation:

Hartenstein / Mitch
Randle / Bojan
OG / Bojan
DDV / Hart
JB / AB

I'm not proposing a bet but I'd be willing to bet a lot that Burks and Bojan play a lot more than 8 mpg

I agree with you that Burks is the backup PG but he'll play more than 8 bc he'll get time at 2

I'd say a mean playoff game for Burks will be like 18 mpg and 5-10 shots

Bojan will be at 25mpg and take like 8-13 shots

OG will come down to 30ish

[K_ick_God]

Burks: Will reduce time and shots from DD and Hart (and Deuce who will get nada)

Bo: Will reduce time and shots from OG

This is written in stone now

[cgmw]

Yeah chickens came home to roost pretty fast ... season is still salvageable if we get everyone back

But I have no faith in the dude ... the only way to properly use Burks is to have him not handle at all ... but we all know that is not happening. He'll be dribbling at the top. He should be off the ball and shoot a few times a game ... Reality: He's going to be handling and therefore shooting

I also think Bojan will share time with OG at like 70% of OG time. This idea that the new guys are going to be very minor players I think is wrong. I realize we have a ton of injuries now, but I'm pretty sure Burks gonna shoot 10 a game and Bojan is going to eat into OG's minutes -- Bo just the kind of guy Thibs does not have the willpower or foresight to keep on the bench for long

Salvageable? Get off the ledge, man.

You mean from losing 2 or 3 games now with half our team injured? Yeah I think they'll be just fine.

OG will not be affected by Bojan except that he won't have to play 42 mpg anymore which is a good thing because the guy isn't durable. And you're delusional if you think Thibs didn't acquire AB exactly to be the primary ballhandler when Brunson sits. IDK what about 4 years of Thibs or Burks' first stint here didn't tip you off, but the only person screwed by AB on the roster is Deuce. AB will play like 8 mpg during the playoffs.

Fully healthy Playoff rotation:

Hartenstein / Mitch
Randle / Bojan
OG / Bojan
DDV / Hart
JB / AB

I'm not proposing a bet but I'd be willing to bet a lot that Burks and Bojan play a lot more than 8 mpg

I agree with you that Burks is the backup PG but he'll play more than 8 bc he'll get time at 2

I'd say a mean playoff game for Burks will be like 18 mpg and 5-10 shots

Bojan will be at 25mpg and take like 8-13 shots

OG will come down to 30ish

Fully healthy squad in the playoffs, Thibs is running a rim protector + the Nova Boys + Randle + OG as much as possible. He did the 8.5 man playoff rotation last year and the year before, so I'd say you'd be betting on Old Faithful changing it up.

Burks' role in the playoffs would be to jack up as many iso-dribble drive shots as possible during his 8-12 minutes of spelling Brunson.

[K_ick_God]

Salvageable? Get off the ledge, man.

You mean from losing 2 or 3 games now with half our team injured? Yeah I think they'll be just fine.

OG will not be affected by Bojan except that he won't have to play 42 mpg anymore which is a good thing because the guy isn't durable. And you're delusional if you think Thibs didn't acquire AB exactly to be the primary ballhandler when Brunson sits. IDK what about 4 years of Thibs or Burks' first stint here didn't tip you off, but the only person screwed by AB on the roster is Deuce. AB will play like 8 mpg during the playoffs.

Fully healthy Playoff rotation:

Hartenstein / Mitch
Randle / Bojan
OG / Bojan
DDV / Hart
JB / AB

I'm not proposing a bet but I'd be willing to bet a lot that Burks and Bojan play a lot more than 8 mpg

I agree with you that Burks is the backup PG but he'll play more than 8 bc he'll get time at 2

I'd say a mean playoff game for Burks will be like 18 mpg and 5-10 shots

Bojan will be at 25mpg and take like 8-13 shots

OG will come down to 30ish

Fully healthy squad in the playoffs, Thibs is running a rim protector + the Nova Boys + Randle + OG as much as possible. He did this last year and the year before, so I'd say you'd be betting on Old Faithful changing it up.

Burks' role in the playoffs would be to jack up as many iso-dribble drive shots as possible during his 8-12 minutes of spelling Brunson.

Disagree. OG is not as diverse an offensive player and DD is not either -- thus Burks and Bo are getting a lot more time than you predict. Thibs doesn't care at all what fans or conventional wisdom is ... or the fact that these guys came from a horrible team and are old

That is of 0 significance to him. OG is just another cog to him, not some featured guy

Be ready for it though, because I saw Deuce losing time and that already happened

Come playoffs, he's keeping Bo and Burks as major rotation guys ... don't kid thyself lol ... they're not bit players, they're main elements

Again, dribbling, offensive skill, offensive diversity -- that will win the day with him as things tighten up

[Capn'O]

We definitely miss Grimes right now. We'd be able to double down on hard nosed defense when the offense isn't there. When we're fully healthy? Maybe not as much.

Bogs looked more comfortable last night.

[cgmw]

I'm not proposing a bet but I'd be willing to bet a lot that Burks and Bojan play a lot more than 8 mpg

I agree with you that Burks is the backup PG but he'll play more than 8 bc he'll get time at 2

I'd say a mean playoff game for Burks will be like 18 mpg and 5-10 shots

Bojan will be at 25mpg and take like 8-13 shots

OG will come down to 30ish

Fully healthy squad in the playoffs, Thibs is running a rim protector + the Nova Boys + Randle + OG as much as possible. He did this last year and the year before, so I'd say you'd be betting on Old Faithful changing it up.

Burks' role in the playoffs would be to jack up as many iso-dribble drive shots as possible during his 8-12 minutes of spelling Brunson.

Disagree. OG is not as diverse an offensive player and DD is not either -- thus Burks and Bo are getting a lot more time than you predict. Thibs doesn't care at all what fans or conventional wisdom is ... or the fact that these guys came from a horrible team and are old

That is of 0 significance to him. OG is just another cog to him, not some featured guy

Be ready for it though, because I saw Deuce losing time and that already happened

Come playoffs, he's keeping Bo and Burks as major rotation guys ... don't kid thyself lol ... they're not bit players, they're main elements

Again, dribbling, offensive skill, offensive diversity -- that will win the day with him as things tighten up

I would be up for taking your money.

OG will get exactly the same "third banana" star treatment as RJ. Thibs will lean on him heavily. If Bojan can't find his outside shot, then Thibs will simplhy double up AB's role.

Like Grimes, IQ, and RJ before him Deuce McBride is learning that his only way to find playing time is to develop into a selfish iso rim-attack player.

[god shammgod]

you guys want to change the argument from mpharris saying height doesn't matter basically. nobody thinks burks is the better defender. but players do have physical limitations. if not let's play mcbride at center. we need the help there right now.

[TrueWarrior]

Whats funny about Bojan so far is he’s actually attempting to fit in, play within the offense, and find the open man out there, unlike Alec.

That has lead to Bojan passing to Josh a lot, who is always wide open. We know why he’s open lol. To be fair Josh had a good game in this one, and was 3-5 from three, but he still hesitated on a bunch of open ones.

Anyway, it’s still early to judge the trade with all the injuries Thibs is causing, but I didn’t like Alec the last time he was here. Couldn’t wait to get rid of him, so it’s a bummer I have to watch him again. I like Bojan though.

This is the rotation I’d want:

Jalen / Deuce
Donte / Josh
OG / Bojan
Julius / Precious
Isaiah / Mitch

Thibs will bench Deuce for Alec though. Wouldnt surprise me if Precious goes from 42 mpg to DNPs once Mitch returns either.