BREAKING **** NEWS: Deal #done Knicks acquire Bargnani

[Context]

The delusion is so strong already.... confirmation bias in action.

What delusion?

The delusion some people create for themselves and then confirm it in what they choose to see.

I'm curious to know what you're talking about specifically related to this Bargs discussion?

[BOOMbip]

The delusion is so strong already.... confirmation bias in action.

Couldnt there also be delusion in seeing something that isnt there?

There absolutely are people seeing things that aren't there and that is their delusion. If by chance you are suggesting that there aren't any delusions being displayed here let me extend a welcome to you and say, this is RealGM, let me show you around.

[BOOMbip]

What delusion?

The delusion some people create for themselves and then confirm it in what they choose to see.

I'm curious to know what you're talking about specifically related to this Bargs discussion?

There extremes that people are painting the player and the trade in, things rarely are in those extremes, they typically are closer to the middle.

[Thugger HBC]

The delusion is so strong already.... confirmation bias in action.

Couldnt there also be delusion in seeing something that isnt there?

There absolutely are people seeing things that aren't there and that is their delusion. If by chance you are suggesting that there aren't any delusions being displayed here let me extend a welcome to you and say, this is RealGM, let me show you around.

Part of being a fan involves delusion, and of course someone would have confirmation bias otherwise they would never post on a message board.

[strangespot]

Yeah their schedule was hard, but they still lost to some of the worst teams in the league.

They lost to Dallas (without Dirk), Philly, Utah (They were meh), Boston (also had a bad start to the season), Philly again, Charlotte, Detroit, Sacramento, and Utah (again). Almost all of those are all lottery teams. So please, don't give me the "they had a hard schedule" crap, bceause despite the schedule being hard, they still easily could have done better than 4-19. No matter how you sugarcoat it 4-19 is a brutal record.

The 4 home games they beat Houston and Cleveland (better than you think since they had Irving and were at home). That's more impressive than any of their wins in the 4-19 stretch. Before you reply with Indy, remember than Indy had a very bad start to the year, and they were forced to quickly adapt to life without Granger. This was before Paul George broke out as well.

During that stretch Bargs was out, the Raptors went 13-12. When he was in, they went 4-19. That's a drastic difference, no matter what the schedule was.

as i said, I dont believe these kind of numbers are useful to evaluate a single player. For me it was more like last season was the one season too much for Bargs in TO, it was already obvious after his calf injury in 2011-2012. When he came back and didnt perform like he did in the first part of that season, there were the first signs that something was irreparabely broken between him and fans/organisation, it was clear he was going to be traded... iunfortunately it didnt happen that summer already.

[[GR]]

Andrea is going to love the food, and the fashion. Another reason the motivation will be strong

[BOOMbip]

Couldnt there also be delusion in seeing something that isnt there?

There absolutely are people seeing things that aren't there and that is their delusion. If by chance you are suggesting that there aren't any delusions being displayed here let me extend a welcome to you and say, this is RealGM, let me show you around.

Part of being a fan involves delusion, and of course someone would have confirmation bias otherwise they would never post on a message board.

You must be speaking for yourself because for me to enjoy watching a team play involes no need to be deluded nor does me posting on a forum require a confirmation bias. But thats just me, for you it might be different.

[JustaKnickFan]

Yeah their schedule was hard, but they still lost to some of the worst teams in the league.

They lost to Dallas (without Dirk), Philly, Utah (They were meh), Boston (also had a bad start to the season), Philly again, Charlotte, Detroit, Sacramento, and Utah (again). Almost all of those are all lottery teams. So please, don't give me the "they had a hard schedule" crap, bceause despite the schedule being hard, they still easily could have done better than 4-19. No matter how you sugarcoat it 4-19 is a brutal record.

The 4 home games they beat Houston and Cleveland (better than you think since they had Irving and were at home). That's more impressive than any of their wins in the 4-19 stretch. Before you reply with Indy, remember than Indy had a very bad start to the year, and they were forced to quickly adapt to life without Granger. This was before Paul George broke out as well.

During that stretch Bargs was out, the Raptors went 13-12. When he was in, they went 4-19. That's a drastic difference, no matter what the schedule was.

as i said, I dont believe these kind of numbers are useful to evaluate a single player. For me it was more like last season was the one season too much for Bargs in TO, it was already obvious after his calf injury in 2011-2012. When he came back and didnt perform like he did in the first part of that season, there were the first signs that something was irreparabely broken between him and fans/organisation, it was clear he was going to be traded... iunfortunately it didnt happen that summer already.

There are plenty of numbers to go by then. I just use those because it shows how he was a negative for his team. However, you can look at his fg% and determine that as well.

His calf injury I doubt will ever go away. His calf will probably be a problem this season as well, if injury history with big men has taught us anything.

Anyway, what makes this trade so appealing to you all?

The Raptors were about to give away Bargs for free, but the Knicks give Urji 3 draft picks for him.
The Knicks lost in the playoffs due to defense and most importantly rebounding. Bargs provides none of those.
Knicks are already one of the best 3pt shooting teams in the league, they don't need Bargs help for that.

I fail to see why this is a good move, and seems like a lateral one at best. If you don't, please convince me to how Bargs allows the Knicks to beat the Pacers, Bulls, Heat, and Nets.

[BOOMbip]

Asking someone to try and convince to you why to like the trade or Barg when you obviously dont is like asking someone to convince yo to like te flavor chocolate when you dont. Theres no amount of explaining to convincing that will change how you feel so is moot endeavor.

[Meat]

Yeah their schedule was hard, but they still lost to some of the worst teams in the league.

They lost to Dallas (without Dirk), Philly, Utah (They were meh), Boston (also had a bad start to the season), Philly again, Charlotte, Detroit, Sacramento, and Utah (again). Almost all of those are all lottery teams. So please, don't give me the "they had a hard schedule" crap, bceause despite the schedule being hard, they still easily could have done better than 4-19. No matter how you sugarcoat it 4-19 is a brutal record.

The 4 home games they beat Houston and Cleveland (better than you think since they had Irving and were at home). That's more impressive than any of their wins in the 4-19 stretch. Before you reply with Indy, remember than Indy had a very bad start to the year, and they were forced to quickly adapt to life without Granger. This was before Paul George broke out as well.

During that stretch Bargs was out, the Raptors went 13-12. When he was in, they went 4-19. That's a drastic difference, no matter what the schedule was.

as i said, I dont believe these kind of numbers are useful to evaluate a single player. For me it was more like last season was the one season too much for Bargs in TO, it was already obvious after his calf injury in 2011-2012. When he came back and didnt perform like he did in the first part of that season, there were the first signs that something was irreparabely broken between him and fans/organisation, it was clear he was going to be traded... iunfortunately it didnt happen that summer already.

There are plenty of numbers to go by then. I just use those because it shows how he was a negative for his team. However, you can look at his fg% and determine that as well.

His calf injury I doubt will ever go away. His calf will probably be a problem this season as well, if injury history with big men has taught us anything.

Anyway, what makes this trade so appealing to you all?

The Raptors were about to give away Bargs for free, but the Knicks give Urji 3 draft picks for him.
The Knicks lost in the playoffs due to defense and most importantly rebounding. Bargs provides none of those.
Knicks are already one of the best 3pt shooting teams in the league, they don't need Bargs help for that.

I fail to see why this is a good move, and seems like a lateral one at best. If you don't, please convince me to how Bargs allows the Knicks to beat the Pacers, Bulls, Heat, and Nets.

when id the knicks play poor defense this off season? other than tyson's(their best defender's) anal rapage.

they lost because they couldnt get buckets and as bill the GOAT says "This game has always been, and will always be, about buckets "

[BOOMbip]

In the context of worst case scenario or Barg playing at his worst that makes it a lateral move. Although the potential of him returning to a form that made him a 20ppg player and a versatile hard to match up with scorer makes the the possibility of a much better team.

If your mindset is that he wont ever recover or regain the form he had for a few years before this past injury plauged year then that is your own opinion, but it doesnt make it fact. pointing to where others failed in similar circumstances is as useful as pointing to those that succeeded in them.

The talent/salary trade off from Barg to Novak/Camby wasa win for the Knicks even if that only constitutes a marginal or lateral move with Barg providing his last seasns poor performance. The 1st pick is the gotcha and its the toughest part of it for me to swallow.

If Barg becomes a 17ppg second scorer who helps create space for Melo and can give effort outside of just scoring he could be a piece that helps the Knicks match up better with the better teams in the league. Obviously these both are in the 'remains to be seen' category and we wont know till next spring.

Although to try and call the trade a success or a failure now on any level is jumping the gun for sure. The 1st round pick could be meaningless or a point of angst but for right now at this point or anytime for the summer offseason it cant be told which it will be even thouh I expect a summer full of definitive statements about it.

[JustaKnickFan]

as i said, I dont believe these kind of numbers are useful to evaluate a single player. For me it was more like last season was the one season too much for Bargs in TO, it was already obvious after his calf injury in 2011-2012. When he came back and didnt perform like he did in the first part of that season, there were the first signs that something was irreparabely broken between him and fans/organisation, it was clear he was going to be traded... iunfortunately it didnt happen that summer already.

There are plenty of numbers to go by then. I just use those because it shows how he was a negative for his team. However, you can look at his fg% and determine that as well.

His calf injury I doubt will ever go away. His calf will probably be a problem this season as well, if injury history with big men has taught us anything.

Anyway, what makes this trade so appealing to you all?

The Raptors were about to give away Bargs for free, but the Knicks give Urji 3 draft picks for him.
The Knicks lost in the playoffs due to defense and most importantly rebounding. Bargs provides none of those.
Knicks are already one of the best 3pt shooting teams in the league, they don't need Bargs help for that.

I fail to see why this is a good move, and seems like a lateral one at best. If you don't, please convince me to how Bargs allows the Knicks to beat the Pacers, Bulls, Heat, and Nets.

when id the knicks play poor defense this off season? other than tyson's(their best defender's) anal rapage.

they lost because they couldnt get buckets and as bill the GOAT says "This game has always been, and will always be, about buckets "

The allowed the Pacers, one of the worst teams offensively, to score 100 points on them twice. Needless to say, those two games where they did that they lost.

The Knicks also managed to beat the Pacers whenever they held them under 80, while the Pacers won every game where they scored over 80.

Defense and rebounding wins championships.

[JustaKnickFan]

In the context of worst case scenario or Barg playing at his worst that makes it a lateral move. Although the potential of him returning to a form that made him a 20ppg player and a versatile hard to match up with scorer makes the the possibility of a much better team.

If your mindset is that he wont ever recover or regain the form he had for a few years before this past injury plauged year then that is your own opinion, but it doesnt make it fact. pointing to where others failed in similar circumstances is as useful as pointing to those that succeeded in them.

The talent/salary trade off from Barg to Novak/Camby wasa win for the Knicks even if that only constitutes a marginal or lateral move with Barg providing his last seasns poor performance. The 1st pick is the gotcha and its the toughest part of it for me to swallow.

If Barg becomes a 17ppg second scorer who helps create space for Melo and can give effort outside of just scoring he could be a piece that helps the Knicks match up better with the better teams in the league. Obviously these both are in the 'remains to be seen' category and we wont know till next spring.

Although to try and call the trade a success or a failure now on any level is jumping the gun for sure. The 1st round pick could be meaningless or a point of angst but for right now at this point or anytime for the summer offseason it cant be told which it will be even thouh I expect a summer full of definitive statements about it.

If you think Bargs returning to being a 17-21ppg scorer is a realistic possibility, you'd be very disappointed.

He's injury prone, and has been declining. Even in his good years, he doesn't score very efficiently, especially for a big.

[TheProfessor]

Bargs actually could help you guys against the Pacers, He is actually a really really good post defender, so next year maybe Bargs can stop Hibbert from ripping you guys inside out in the paint.

[JustaKnickFan]

Bargs actually could help you guys against the Pacers, He is actually a really really good post defender, so next year maybe Bargs can stop Hibbert from ripping you guys inside out in the paint.

Hibbert did most of his damage on the boards.

[OAKLEYISMS]

In the context of worst case scenario or Barg playing at his worst that makes it a lateral move. Although the potential of him returning to a form that made him a 20ppg player and a versatile hard to match up with scorer makes the the possibility of a much better team.

If your mindset is that he wont ever recover or regain the form he had for a few years before this past injury plauged year then that is your own opinion, but it doesnt make it fact. pointing to where others failed in similar circumstances is as useful as pointing to those that succeeded in them.

The talent/salary trade off from Barg to Novak/Camby wasa win for the Knicks even if that only constitutes a marginal or lateral move with Barg providing his last seasns poor performance. The 1st pick is the gotcha and its the toughest part of it for me to swallow.

If Barg becomes a 17ppg second scorer who helps create space for Melo and can give effort outside of just scoring he could be a piece that helps the Knicks match up better with the better teams in the league. Obviously these both are in the 'remains to be seen' category and we wont know till next spring.

Although to try and call the trade a success or a failure now on any level is jumping the gun for sure. The 1st round pick could be meaningless or a point of angst but for right now at this point or anytime for the summer offseason it cant be told which it will be even thouh I expect a summer full of definitive statements about it.

If you think Bargs returning to being a 17-21ppg scorer is a realistic possibility, you'd be very disappointed.

He's injury prone, and has been declining. Even in his good years, he doesn't score very efficiently, especially for a big.

...you're out of your mind.he's 27 and just entering his prime....he was misused.overused.toyed with,and never given the opportunity to shine, yet did everything asked of him.....his only fault is he isnt lebron and went first.

...i cant wait for the season to start so you can stfu.

[StephNYKurry]

If you think Bargs returning to being a 17-21ppg scorer is a realistic possibility, you'd be very disappointed.

He's injury prone, and has been declining. Even in his good years, he doesn't score very efficiently, especially for a big.

So the guy who has averaged 18 PPG over his last 200 basketball games...has zero chance of averaging 17-21 PPG next season.

Gotta love Knick fans man

[Thugger HBC]

There absolutely are people seeing things that aren't there and that is their delusion. If by chance you are suggesting that there aren't any delusions being displayed here let me extend a welcome to you and say, this is RealGM, let me show you around.

Part of being a fan involves delusion, and of course someone would have confirmation bias otherwise they would never post on a message board.

You must be speaking for yourself because for me to enjoy watching a team play involes no need to be deluded nor does me posting on a forum require a confirmation bias. But thats just me, for you it might be different.

Sadly you dont know the meaning of the terms.

You have an opinion on this trade for instance, and i'm sure you could support it, thats enough to support confirmation bias, of which you've already displayed by a previous post.

[BOOMbip]

In the context of worst case scenario or Barg playing at his worst that makes it a lateral move. Although the potential of him returning to a form that made him a 20ppg player and a versatile hard to match up with scorer makes the the possibility of a much better team.

If your mindset is that he wont ever recover or regain the form he had for a few years before this past injury plauged year then that is your own opinion, but it doesnt make it fact. pointing to where others failed in similar circumstances is as useful as pointing to those that succeeded in them.

The talent/salary trade off from Barg to Novak/Camby wasa win for the Knicks even if that only constitutes a marginal or lateral move with Barg providing his last seasns poor performance. The 1st pick is the gotcha and its the toughest part of it for me to swallow.

If Barg becomes a 17ppg second scorer who helps create space for Melo and can give effort outside of just scoring he could be a piece that helps the Knicks match up better with the better teams in the league. Obviously these both are in the 'remains to be seen' category and we wont know till next spring.

Although to try and call the trade a success or a failure now on any level is jumping the gun for sure. The 1st round pick could be meaningless or a point of angst but for right now at this point or anytime for the summer offseason it cant be told which it will be even thouh I expect a summer full of definitive statements about it.

If you think Bargs returning to being a 17-21ppg scorer is a realistic possibility, you'd be very disappointed.

He's injury prone, and has been declining. Even in his good years, he doesn't score very efficiently, especially for a big.

It's a possibility and even arealistic one, just because you refuse to ascknowledge it doesn't make it less realistic of a possibilty. He had one down season in which he had an injury, that doesnt make it a declining trend outside of your opinion.

True he had a recurring injury that may or may not have been extended by how his coach played him when he returned. Although to characterize him as an injury prone player that won't ever be a healthy again is more your opinion not fact.

He undoubtedy wont have +50%fg shooting because he shoots so much from the outside compared to most big men so to try to lump him with most big men is selctive reasoning. Im on my phone so cant check but seeing his pps would clarify that more than just fg%. Last seasons extremely poor shooting year should be considered his norm anymoe than his best one would either.

Oh and dont try and turn this into that Im saying he will become a 20ppg scorer again because i didnt you did by twisting my words in an attempt to create a false premise to argu against. He can concievably become a second option type 17ppg guy but him scoring 20ppg is highly unlikely. Two different ideas so dont lump my point into both o the wrong one.

[DLTGWH]

Defense and rebounding wins championships.

Except the Heat are one of the worse rebounding team in the league.

Perhaps more goes into championship basketball than just that old school cliche.