BREAKING **** NEWS: Deal #done Knicks acquire Bargnani

[BOOMbip]

Plus since when is a calf muscle injury, and that's what it was... a calf muscle now being put into the same injury category as a knee or back injury. Because when someone compares it to Bynum or Howard, that's what they are doing. A calf strain can keep someone out of play and can be troublesome if it's not allowed to heal properly before playing on it again but it's not anything like a knee injury that requires surgery and will forever be an issue. Not the same, not even close, null point.

Plus when he first injured the calf he was shooting a career high fg% and was rebounding at a higher % than he had every before. When he returned his role had changed because of the emergence of Ed Davis and his production suffered before he went out again with the recurring injury, which may or may not have recurred because of the extended minutes he was given right away.

The thing is, his injuries are consistently occurring, and are getting worse. He's getting more and more banged up and it's becoming obvious. He can barely play 30 games now. Let's face it, we traded a very injury prone Camby for a very injury prone Bargs.

His role changed to an off the bench scorer which he did poorly. Anyway, it's never a good sign when an injury continues to plague a player.

No they aren't consistently happening and getting worse that's just your opinion of them. The calf recurrence happened right away upon his return from the injury and it was after he had been played heavy minutes and didn't flare up anytime after he finally got to rest it properly. The says to me he was rushed back and then played too much by the coach when he returned.

His elbow injury was a freak injury, how often does someone hurt an elbow playing basketball? Rarely, so to me that was a freak happenstance and can't be construed as him piling up injuries that are getting worse. Just rubbish theory on your part and not really a definite example of this theory you are pushing here. Plus his first 5 season were relatively healthy ones so the two recent years seem more of an aberration than anything.

[Thugger HBC]

They were in the regular season. However, rebounding in the playoff is a whole different story. They were killed on the glass in the Pacers series, and that is what did them in. The Pacers scored off those rebounds and their offense was the best it's ever been. The Knicks couldn't catch a break on offense and were consistently 1&done.

Reggie Evans isn't an example you want to cite, because of how he is such a 1 sided player. The only thing he does well is rebounding. To build a contender, you need guys that fill multiple roles. What role does Bargs fill other than scoring on this team?

Reggie Evans is a elite rebounder and solid defender. 2 things that according to you should make him coveted. Hes clearly not. Asik also is elite defensively and rebounding. Houston just replaced him with another guy who rebounds and plays defense, and is rumored to be shopping him. Hes not a core player either according to Houston and Chicago.

It doesnt matter what else Bargnani does. He needs to score efficiently, defend his man adequately and create space for Melo under the basket. Hes never going to be confused with Dennis Rodman but neither was Novitski. The Knicks arent asking him to be. They need him to SCORE. While not being a Steve Novak level liability on the other end.

And1 first of all...

And for the love of god! Why is the bold so hard to understand? I just don't know how to express my frustration related to this without insulting anyone...something that I don't want to do...

I will say this - this trade has reminded me of why I once served "crow" to posters. Some of you can be down right abusive and arrogant when pushing ur agendas... And it plants seeds for the "I told you so" mentality to come back raging and what will happen then? The same camp that was relentlessly abusive and arrogant will complain about...

That type of logic is where i hope the team does not share.

Playoff basketball has no boundaries on roles, all opn the court are to be expected to do the things needed for the win.

prime example Roy Hibbert being a focal point of indy's offense in the playoffs when he wasnt in the regular season.

To think Bargnani will only be required to just score efficiently, which i doubt he can even do that, is putting the team in a disadvantage.

It;'s the same thing people said of Melo, he was only brought here to score....no.....he was brought here to win games by any means he's capable of, at which scoring is not the only thing he is capable of.

[JustaKnickFan]

Plus since when is a calf muscle injury, and that's what it was... a calf muscle now being put into the same injury category as a knee or back injury. Because when someone compares it to Bynum or Howard, that's what they are doing. A calf strain can keep someone out of play and can be troublesome if it's not allowed to heal properly before playing on it again but it's not anything like a knee injury that requires surgery and will forever be an issue. Not the same, not even close, null point.

Plus when he first injured the calf he was shooting a career high fg% and was rebounding at a higher % than he had every before. When he returned his role had changed because of the emergence of Ed Davis and his production suffered before he went out again with the recurring injury, which may or may not have recurred because of the extended minutes he was given right away.

The thing is, his injuries are consistently occurring, and are getting worse. He's getting more and more banged up and it's becoming obvious. He can barely play 30 games now. Let's face it, we traded a very injury prone Camby for a very injury prone Bargs.

His role changed to an off the bench scorer which he did poorly. Anyway, it's never a good sign when an injury continues to plague a player.

No they aren't consistently happening and getting worse that's just your opinion of them. The calf recurrence happened right away upon his return from the injury and it was after he had been played heavy minutes and didn't flare up anytime after he finally got to rest it properly. The says to me he was rushed back and then played too much by the coach when he returned.

His elbow injury was a freak injury, how often does someone hurt an elbow playing basketball? Rarely, so to me that was a freak happenstance and can't be construed as him piling up injuries that are getting worse. Just rubbish theory on your part and not really a definite example of this theory you are pushing here. Plus his first 5 season were relatively healthy ones so the two recent years seem more of an aberration than anything.

7fters with injury problems, no matter where the injuries are, is not a good thing. Especially when the injuries are re-occurring. Bargs started off on the bench, and then eventually started. He may have been rushed back, but I'm not sure about that.

Elbow injuries aren't a freak injury in basketball. Plenty of guys have them. My theory is that his injury history is getting progressively worse. Guys don't go from missing 100 games in 2 seasons to suddenly perfectly healthy.

Anyway, you call me bias, but I've watched the Raptors this year probably more than you. I can't stand the way he plays. If you like a 7fter who has no idea how to protect the rim, rebound, and fit into an offensive system then I guess Bargnani's your guy. However, for me, I like 7fters that can actually rebound and defend in a team system.

On your previous point on the whole "team defensive scheme being bad", the Raptors head coach was the Mavs assistant coach who was responsible for their defense that year when they won the championship.

[Thugger HBC]

Real talk.....If three point shooting Mehmet Okur could average over 7 rebounds for his career, Bargnani need to step his shyt up in NY.

[BOOMbip]

Let's not pretend that the Knicks were completely healthy and playing at their best while the Pacers weren't having breakout and career performances from multiple players to get by the Knicks. Melo was hurt and half the team couldn't shoot straight the whole series while Pacers were doing everything they needed to. It's not like it was all the Pacers defense as wide open shots were being missed by all of the Knicks. The Knicks did everything in their power to give that series away and the Pacers still had to work hard to win it. So the gap between the two teams was mostly of 'for that series' and less of 'in general'.

That being said the most notable advantages the Pacers had were that both of their big men could shoot jumpers so pulled the Knicks basket defense away from the paint while on the other side of the ball the Knicks big men can't shoot outside of the paint so the Pacers could clog the paint and everything was contested at the basket. That resulted in the Knicks poor fg% and few offensive rebounds while on the other side that gave the Pacers lanes to the basket and room to get offensive rebounds.

It's going to be hard to find big men that can play inside and outside but without finding some big men who can shoot outside the paint the Knicks will find themselves in the same spot next playoffs. The cold shooting of JR was so epic you can't plan for him to be that bad again for that long and there's no way to improve that other than find other scorers so he isn't relied as heavily upon.

[Context]

Reggie Evans is a elite rebounder and solid defender. 2 things that according to you should make him coveted. Hes clearly not. Asik also is elite defensively and rebounding. Houston just replaced him with another guy who rebounds and plays defense, and is rumored to be shopping him. Hes not a core player either according to Houston and Chicago.

It doesnt matter what else Bargnani does. He needs to score efficiently, defend his man adequately and create space for Melo under the basket. Hes never going to be confused with Dennis Rodman but neither was Novitski. The Knicks arent asking him to be. They need him to SCORE. While not being a Steve Novak level liability on the other end.

And1 first of all...

And for the love of god! Why is the bold so hard to understand? I just don't know how to express my frustration related to this without insulting anyone...something that I don't want to do...

I will say this - this trade has reminded me of why I once served "crow" to posters. Some of you can be down right abusive and arrogant when pushing ur agendas... And it plants seeds for the "I told you so" mentality to come back raging and what will happen then? The same camp that was relentlessly abusive and arrogant will complain about...

That type of logic is where i hope the team does not share.

Playoff basketball has no boundaries on roles, all opn the court are to be expected to do the things needed for the win.

prime example Roy Hibbert being a focal point of indy's offense in the playoffs when he wasnt in the regular season.

To think Bargnani will only be required to just score efficiently, which i doubt he can even do that, is putting the team in a disadvantage.

It;'s the same thing people said of Melo, he was only brought here to score....no.....he was brought here to win games by any means he's capable of, at which scoring is not the only thing he is capable of.

Thug, it's not like Bargs CAN'T rebound. I saw several hgh rebounding games(above his average) in the first month of last season. People are acting like he runs when he sees a rebound.

[Thugger HBC]

Let's not pretend the Pacers didnt have their best player, absolute garbage for their pg's and no bench either.

And didnt have HOME COURT ADVANTAGE, or even the best player on the floor for either side.

[StephNYKurry]

I can see where this is headed.

Bargnani will be the reason for whenever we lose.

People will just ignore the fact that we simply aren't good enough to win a championship and folks angst will rain down on Bargnani for not being Dirk Nowitzki and they'll label the trade as awful. The likelihood of any of the draft picks or Novak/Camby being better than Bargnani at any point over the next 5 years, is probably close to zilch.

Just whine and continue to bitch and moan.

[BOOMbip]

7fters with injury problems, no matter where the injuries are, is not a good thing. Especially when the injuries are re-occurring. Bargs started off on the bench, and then eventually started. He may have been rushed back, but I'm not sure about that.

Elbow injuries aren't a freak injury in basketball. Plenty of guys have them. My theory is that his injury history is getting progressively worse. Guys don't go from missing 100 games in 2 seasons to suddenly perfectly healthy.

Anyway, you call me bias, but I've watched the Raptors this year probably more than you. I can't stand the way he plays. If you like a 7fter who has no idea how to protect the rim, rebound, and fit into an offensive system then I guess Bargnani's your guy. However, for me, I like 7fters that can actually rebound and defend in a team system.

On your previous point on the whole "team defensive scheme being bad", the Raptors head coach was the Mavs assistant coach who was responsible for their defense that year when they won the championship.

Then Tyson has no idea how to protect the since he has only .3bga career ave better than Barg. You hate Barg and want to find every little nuance to turn into a huge dramatic extreme. So I'm done with drama queens who don't have enough of an open mind to at least not exaggerate and twist everything when it so obvious to everyone that's what those dqs are doing. Enjoy your opinion, may it keep you warm at night.

Oh yea... I know, I'm thinking Barg will be the best evar!!!!!! and I'm so wrong!!!! How could I not see this?!?!?!?!?!?! LOL! Read my words and understand... stop twisting in the wind every little thing but I can't go in circles with someone who has made up their mind before we see them all play this year that it won't work and it will fail.

[BOOMbip]

Hey maybe Melo now won't be the escape goat for everything.....haha

[JustaKnickFan]

Let's not pretend that the Knicks were completely healthy and playing at their best while the Pacers weren't having breakout and career performances from multiple players to get by the Knicks. Melo was hurt and half the team couldn't shoot straight the whole series while Pacers were doing everything they needed to. It's not like it was all the Pacers defense as wide open shots were being missed by all of the Knicks. The Knicks did everything in their power to give that series away and the Pacers still had to work hard to win it. So the gap between the two teams was mostly of 'for that series' and less of 'in general'.

That being said the most notable advantages the Pacers had were that both of their big men could shoot jumpers so pulled the Knicks basket defense away from the paint while on the other side of the ball the Knicks big men can't shoot outside of the paint so the Pacers could clog the paint and everything was contested at the basket. That resulted in the Knicks poor fg% and few offensive rebounds while on the other side that gave the Pacers lanes to the basket and room to get offensive rebounds.

It's going to be hard to find big men that can play inside and outside but without finding some big men who can shoot outside the paint the Knicks will find themselves in the same spot next playoffs. The cold shooting of JR was so epic you can't plan for him to be that bad again for that long and there's no way to improve that other than find other scorers so he isn't relied as heavily upon.

Oh come on, the most notable advantage was the rebounding. We held our breathe after every Pacers miss because half the time they got the rebound. Another notable advantage was how the Pacer bigs dominated the Knicks, and were able to get open 3s at will because the Knicks defensive scheme is to double the post no matter what. The problem was that Kidd rotated incredibly slow and gave the Pacers plenty of nice looks.

What I saw in that series was same ol' playoff JR, a worn-down Chandler, and an injured and inefficient Melo. JR's cold shooting is partly due to him taking some dumb shots the defense will give him. Chandler was bound to break down after not resting during the Summer and instead participating in the Olympics. Melo played hard and I give him a lot of credit, but he still made some questionable decisions.

I love the guys on the team, but JR playing bad in the playoffs isn't something out of the ordinary. Chandler is getting older and has trouble playing a full season. Melo is a great player, but he can't do ita ll.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Let's not pretend that the Knicks were completely healthy and playing at their best while the Pacers weren't having breakout and career performances from multiple players to get by the Knicks. Melo was hurt and half the team couldn't shoot straight the whole series while Pacers were doing everything they needed to. It's not like it was all the Pacers defense as wide open shots were being missed by all of the Knicks. The Knicks did everything in their power to give that series away and the Pacers still had to work hard to win it. So the gap between the two teams was mostly of 'for that series' and less of 'in general'.

That being said the most notable advantages the Pacers had were that both of their big men could shoot jumpers so pulled the Knicks basket defense away from the paint while on the other side of the ball the Knicks big men can't shoot outside of the paint so the Pacers could clog the paint and everything was contested at the basket. That resulted in the Knicks poor fg% and few offensive rebounds while on the other side that gave the Pacers lanes to the basket and room to get offensive rebounds.

It's going to be hard to find big men that can play inside and outside but without finding some big men who can shoot outside the paint the Knicks will find themselves in the same spot next playoffs. The cold shooting of JR was so epic you can't plan for him to be that bad again for that long and there's no way to improve that other than find other scorers so he isn't relied as heavily upon.

The Knicks tried that in that series though. They played almost the entire series with small ball, with only 1 big at a time. They tried spreading the floor, but Indy still shut the offense down. Chandler or Kmart/Amare were the only bigs on the court at a time usually. And its just a very poor excuse to blame Chandler for spacing. Knicks should still be able to run an effective offense with Chandler on the court. They have in the past and the Mavs were a great offensive team when they one. Replacing one guy who stands at the 3 point line with another guy to stand at the 3 point line isn't the answer.

The problem I saw with the Knicks offense is that they struggled to set up any offense and get good shots. Indy stayed home on the Knicks shooters, Hibbert stayed in the paint, and they forced the Knicks into a lot of one-on-ones and iso's and bad shots. The Knicks had no answer, except shoot more 3's.

Basically, the Knicks offense is a gimmick and really good defensive teams can shut it down in a playoff series. There philosophy is flawed and will never work long term in the playoffs.

If anything I had hoped the Knicks would go in the opposite direction. Get better on the defensive end. If they could learn to win games that way they would have a much better chance in the defensive playoff battles.

[StephNYKurry]

I wish some of you would go back and watch some of the Indiana games so that you could intelligently analyze it, instead of relying on your faulty memory that simply thinks the Pacers dominated us in every phase of the game.

[Thugger HBC]

I can see where this is headed.

Bargnani will be the reason for whenever we lose.

People will just ignore the fact that we simply aren't good enough to win a championship and folks angst will rain down on Bargnani for not being Dirk Nowitzki and they'll label the trade as awful. The likelihood of any of the draft picks or Novak/Camby being better than Bargnani at any point over the next 5 years, is probably close to zilch.

Just whine and continue to bitch and moan.

All he has to do is play well and do the needed things for a win, no one gets ripped for doing that even in a loss.

Inefficient shooting, poor defense and poor rebounding? He should get slaughtered for that.

How a team loses usually matter more than the loss itself.

Most dont like this deal for a variety of reasons, even the ones positive about it dont like the deal either.

[JustaKnickFan]

7fters with injury problems, no matter where the injuries are, is not a good thing. Especially when the injuries are re-occurring. Bargs started off on the bench, and then eventually started. He may have been rushed back, but I'm not sure about that.

Elbow injuries aren't a freak injury in basketball. Plenty of guys have them. My theory is that his injury history is getting progressively worse. Guys don't go from missing 100 games in 2 seasons to suddenly perfectly healthy.

Anyway, you call me bias, but I've watched the Raptors this year probably more than you. I can't stand the way he plays. If you like a 7fter who has no idea how to protect the rim, rebound, and fit into an offensive system then I guess Bargnani's your guy. However, for me, I like 7fters that can actually rebound and defend in a team system.

On your previous point on the whole "team defensive scheme being bad", the Raptors head coach was the Mavs assistant coach who was responsible for their defense that year when they won the championship.

Then Tyson has no idea how to protect the since he has only .3bga career ave better than Barg. You hate Barg and want to find every little nuance to turn into a huge dramatic extreme. So I'm done with drama queens who don't have enough of an open mind to at least not exaggerate and twist everything when it so obvious to everyone that's what those dqs are doing. Enjoy your opinion, may it keep you warm at night.

Oh yea... I know, I'm thinking Barg will be the best evar!!!!!! and I'm so wrong!!!! How could I not see this?!?!?!?!?!?! LOL! Read my words and understand... stop twisting in the wind every little thing but I can't go in circles with someone who has made up their mind before we see them all play this year that it won't work and it will fail.

I'm the one putting words in your mouth? Your first sentence has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Blocks don't mean anything when it comes to defense.

I hate Bargs playstyle, no need to escalate it to make it seem like I'm stating dramatic extremes. It's a fact he's one of the worst rebounding 7fters in the league, and it's a fact he's an awful help defender. He's also been very inefficient shooting. I'm not stating anything extreme, and it's not crazy to assume a 7fter with injury problems isn't going to suddenly become healthy.

The rest of your post isn't worth responding to because it's a load of crap. I'm not twisting anything you're saying. I'm just trying to show people that this Bargs deal is horrible, and that Bargs is not a player you want to be counting on. If you think what I'm saying about Bargs is crazy, I'd love to see your take on what Raptors fans think of him.

[StephNYKurry]

The Knicks tried that in that series though. They played almost the entire series with small ball, with only 1 big at a time. They tried spreading the floor, but Indy still shut the offense down. Chandler or Kmart/Amare were the only bigs on the court at a time usually. And its just a very poor excuse to blame Chandler for spacing. Knicks should still be able to run an effective offense with Chandler on the court. They have in the past and the Mavs were a great offensive team when they one. Replacing one guy who stands at the 3 point line with another guy to stand at the 3 point line isn't the answer.

The problem I saw with the Knicks offense is that they struggled to set up any offense and get good shots. Indy stayed home on the Knicks shooters, Hibbert stayed in the paint, and they forced the Knicks into a lot of one-on-ones and iso's and bad shots. The Knicks had no answer, except shoot more 3's.

Basically, the Knicks offense is a gimmick and really good defensive teams can shut it down in a playoff series. There philosophy is flawed and will never work long term in the playoffs.

If anything I had hoped the Knicks would go in the opposite direction. Get better on the defensive end. If they could learn to win games that way they would have a much better chance in the defensive playoff battles.

Another guy who thinks the Knicks are losing because of their team philosophy.



**** just never stops.

[JustaKnickFan]

Anyway, it's true I'm upset about this deal. I wanted the Knicks to get defense-and-rebounding-oriented bigs with a tough mentality and get younger/collect assets.

Instead, I see them give away 3 picks for a player who is the exact opposite of this, and a player WHO THE RAPTORS WERE PRACTICALLY GIVING AWAY.

I'm sorry but, HE WAS ABOUT TO BE AMNESTIED, YET THE KNICKS TRADED 3 PICKS FOR HIM. Yeah I used caps, but i feel like people aren't realizing how unnecessary the picks were in this deal.

[Thugger HBC]

I wish some of you would go back and watch some of the Indiana games so that you could intelligently analyze it, instead of relying on your faulty memory that simply thinks the Pacers dominated us in every phase of the game.

Here's what the Pacers did........

Won every home game they had.

Took HCA away from NY, and closed out the series in their building.

Massacred them on the boards.

Got pretty much every shot they wanted.

Played better defense.

These really are the only FACTS that matter.

[Deeeez Knicks]

The Knicks tried that in that series though. They played almost the entire series with small ball, with only 1 big at a time. They tried spreading the floor, but Indy still shut the offense down. Chandler or Kmart/Amare were the only bigs on the court at a time usually. And its just a very poor excuse to blame Chandler for spacing. Knicks should still be able to run an effective offense with Chandler on the court. They have in the past and the Mavs were a great offensive team when they one. Replacing one guy who stands at the 3 point line with another guy to stand at the 3 point line isn't the answer.

The problem I saw with the Knicks offense is that they struggled to set up any offense and get good shots. Indy stayed home on the Knicks shooters, Hibbert stayed in the paint, and they forced the Knicks into a lot of one-on-ones and iso's and bad shots. The Knicks had no answer, except shoot more 3's.

Basically, the Knicks offense is a gimmick and really good defensive teams can shut it down in a playoff series. There philosophy is flawed and will never work long term in the playoffs.

If anything I had hoped the Knicks would go in the opposite direction. Get better on the defensive end. If they could learn to win games that way they would have a much better chance in the defensive playoff battles.

Another guy who thinks the Knicks are losing because of their team philosophy.



**** just never stops.

Why did the Knicks lose to the Pacers?

[StephNYKurry]

I wish some of you would go back and watch some of the Indiana games so that you could intelligently analyze it, instead of relying on your faulty memory that simply thinks the Pacers dominated us in every phase of the game.

Here's what the Pacers did........

Won every home game they had.

Took HCA away from NY, and closed out the series in their building.

Massacred them on the boards.

Got pretty much every shot they wanted.

Played better defense.

These really are the only FACTS that matter.

The Knicks shot 35% in two consecutive games on the road.

THEY WEREN'T WINNING EITHER OF THOSE GAMES.

Not a chance in hell.

And it wasn't because the Pacers defense was stymieing them. They simply missed a ton of open freaking shots.