Towns or Okafor or Mudiay or Russel?

[Apples]

I don't think the Knicks are winning the lottery. So it's really, Towns, Russell or Mudiay.

[moocow007]

I don't think the Knicks are winning the lottery. So it's really, Towns, Russell or Mudiay.

And why is that? Because you don't think the Knicks will have the worst record or even one of the top 3 worst records? Or just being a Knick fan having lower expectations?

[KnicksGadfly]

I don't think the Knicks are winning the lottery. So it's really, Towns, Russell or Mudiay.

Eh, we shouldn't expect that even if we had the worst record. We just need to be flexible, and have a plan (doesn't mean I advocate not tanking anymore though). Out of those 3, right now, I would go for Towns. People may look down upon guys like Ibaka or Horford because they won't be putting up 30 point games regularly, but I would argue that their skillset is extremely valuable, to the point of all-star status. Looks to me like Towns has that potential. Plus we have one of the guys that will put up the 30+ regularly, and will hopefully sign a competent second option

[Juggynaut]

I'm happy if we get any1 of them, most happy with Okafor or Russell though.

[K_ick_God]

I'm starting to think we're just at the point where people say so many good things about Steph, that people just say stuff to balance it out.

People that think that Curry is anything less than a phenomenal passer are drunk and high at the same damn time

And he's the greatest shooter the game has ever seen. Stop it.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oOYUUNd2Xl[/youtube]

I know it's weird that tese assessments of Curry's passing bother me as much as they do, but I just find it really laughable and dead ass wrong.

Sorry I don't see him as an elite playmaker.

The problem is you saying his shooting is overrated. He's the best ever. Period. Point. Blank. He has the record for most 3s made in a season and at the rate he's going he's about to break the record from 2 point % for PGs. I agree with the passing thing though. Unless you are comparing him to non PG's he's nothing special.

I never said his shooting his overrated. ?

[NoLayupRule]

I don't know how anyone can realistically judge Mudiay

isn't he injured as well as being invisible playing in the china league?

No longer injured but he lost his spot on the team. Even when he was playing his jumper was super weak and so was his freethrow shooting (they were weak in HS too). We saw enough to see he's a athlete that can finish inside and to see that he can't shoot but outside of that we didn't see much of his playmaking. I wouldn't assume he's a better passer than Doc though because he's been going crazy with his vision and accuracy.

sounds a little like Westbrook's scouting report at that point

he couldn't shoot either
he's sure learned to

[mpharris36]

I don't know how anyone can realistically judge Mudiay

isn't he injured as well as being invisible playing in the china league?

No longer injured but he lost his spot on the team. Even when he was playing his jumper was super weak and so was his freethrow shooting (they were weak in HS too). We saw enough to see he's a athlete that can finish inside and to see that he can't shoot but outside of that we didn't see much of his playmaking. I wouldn't assume he's a better passer than Doc though because he's been going crazy with his vision and accuracy.

sounds a little like Westbrook's scouting report at that point

he couldn't shoot either
he's sure learned to

he has nowhere near westbrooks quickness or athleticism.

Think Tyreke Evans.

[E-Balla]

The problem is you saying his shooting is overrated. He's the best ever. Period. Point. Blank. He has the record for most 3s made in a season and at the rate he's going he's about to break the record from 2 point % for PGs. I agree with the passing thing though. Unless you are comparing him to non PG's he's nothing special.

I never said his shooting his overrated. ?

Not a great playmaker and shooting is, at some level, overrated.

I don't know how anyone can realistically judge Mudiay

isn't he injured as well as being invisible playing in the china league?

No longer injured but he lost his spot on the team. Even when he was playing his jumper was super weak and so was his freethrow shooting (they were weak in HS too). We saw enough to see he's a athlete that can finish inside and to see that he can't shoot but outside of that we didn't see much of his playmaking. I wouldn't assume he's a better passer than Doc though because he's been going crazy with his vision and accuracy.

sounds a little like Westbrook's scouting report at that point

he couldn't shoot either
he's sure learned to

Westbook made 71% of his freethrows the year before coming out and he shot 35% from deep at UCLA. Mudiay was 53% in China, 63% as a senior in high school and he made 30% of his 3s in Chins. I doubt someone with his freethrow shooting ability can improve to become average.

Also Westbrook still has a crappy jumper. He is just so aggressive and good inside it doesn't matter. Mudiay is much more Tyreke than WB athletically. Not a bad thing because Reke could've been great if he improved his game after that first year but I don't like the WB comparison (especially since Mudiay is actually a natural PG in the way he perceives the game).

[NoLayupRule]

interesting

I loved Tyreke when he came into the league, in fact I still think he can be a very good player, but he seems to have stopped trying to grow his game

Mudiay is such a mystery to me - his attitude, his maturity, his raw tools

I love a guy who can be a lockdown defender at the 1, who can get to the rim and finish at will in the NBA, and a guy who is a skilled and willing passer. i don't like a guy who can't hit a shot when open or who's focus is in question.

I have to give the edge to Russel over him at this point just from my exposure and access alone

[K_ick_God]

The problem is you saying his shooting is overrated. He's the best ever. Period. Point. Blank. He has the record for most 3s made in a season and at the rate he's going he's about to break the record from 2 point % for PGs. I agree with the passing thing though. Unless you are comparing him to non PG's he's nothing special.

I never said his shooting his overrated. ?

Not a great playmaker and shooting is, at some level, overrated.

No longer injured but he lost his spot on the team. Even when he was playing his jumper was super weak and so was his freethrow shooting (they were weak in HS too). We saw enough to see he's a athlete that can finish inside and to see that he can't shoot but outside of that we didn't see much of his playmaking. I wouldn't assume he's a better passer than Doc though because he's been going crazy with his vision and accuracy.

sounds a little like Westbrook's scouting report at that point

he couldn't shoot either
he's sure learned to

Westbook made 71% of his freethrows the year before coming out and he shot 35% from deep at UCLA. Mudiay was 53% in China, 63% as a senior in high school and he made 30% of his 3s in Chins. I doubt someone with his freethrow shooting ability can improve to become average.

Also Westbrook still has a crappy jumper. He is just so aggressive and good inside it doesn't matter. Mudiay is much more Tyreke than WB athletically. Not a bad thing because Reke could've been great if he improved his game after that first year but I don't like the WB comparison (especially since Mudiay is actually a natural PG in the way he perceives the game).

No. I'm saying something other than what you think.

Shooting in general can be an overrated thing -- not saying Steph's shooting is overrated, at all. Saying that if that's your best strength, which for him it clearly is, players can get a little overrated on that basis. "at some level" -- meaning that after you are past a certain point of really good shooting, additional accuracy can be less important than whether you can pass and make plays.

The perfect point guard is not a guy who shoots it off the charts (as Steph does) but has some weaknesses -- the perfect PG is a really good shooter, playmaker, defender and has the speed and skill to kill you off the dribble too. Great shooters can often not find their shot as easily late game and that becomes problematic.

I think even Durant suffers from this a LITTLE and he's the tallest/best shooter in the game. Dirk made his mark as a great shooter because he has the size and moves to free up his jumper. I think Durant needs to start adding some pet moves and pay attention to the placement and pet moves that Dirk developed to reliably go to when he needed them.

Durant gets by on his great talent more than this -- he has work to do IMO. So yeah, I'm not calling either guy anything but really good players, but I think they're a tad overrated yes and need to do more to be truly great.

Steph also turns it over quite a bit as a footnote, so that detracts from his playmaking too obviously, though StephNYKurry seems to ignore this for some reason. He's up over 3 TOPG.

[Orange Mamba]

I'd be ecstatic if we ended up with okafor or Russell

[moocow007]

I'd be ecstatic if we ended up with okafor or Russell

Ahh but what if we end up with Frank Kaminsky? What then?

[Bklyn&company]

I don't know how anyone can realistically judge Mudiay

isn't he injured as well as being invisible playing in the china league?

No longer injured but he lost his spot on the team. Even when he was playing his jumper was super weak and so was his freethrow shooting (they were weak in HS too). We saw enough to see he's a athlete that can finish inside and to see that he can't shoot but outside of that we didn't see much of his playmaking. I wouldn't assume he's a better passer than Doc though because he's been going crazy with his vision and accuracy.

sounds a little like Westbrook's scouting report at that point

he couldn't shoot either
he's sure learned to

And Westbrook is on a whole different level athletically.... so is his desire and drive... I don't think Mudiay is no where near Westbrook. I really see Mudiay as an easy bust for his expectations...
As some have mentioned... he is closer to TEvans....right now.

IMO, From Okafor to Mudiay, they both need to really work on their conditioning and overall games in the summer..Currently Mudiay is in my top ten but not my top five....

[NoLayupRule]

I'd be ecstatic if we ended up with okafor or Russell

Ahh but what if we end up with Frank Kaminsky? What then?

[Apples]

I'd be ecstatic if we ended up with okafor or Russell

Ahh but what if we end up with Frank Kaminsky? What then?

My thoughts exactly. Apples will be on the 10:00 news.

[CKamm1]

No. I'm saying something other than what you think.

Shooting in general can be an overrated thing -- not saying Steph's shooting is overrated, at all. Saying that if that's your best strength, which for him it clearly is, players can get a little overrated on that basis. "at some level" -- meaning that after you are past a certain point of really good shooting, additional accuracy can be less important than whether you can pass and make plays.

The perfect point guard is not a guy who shoots it off the charts (as Steph does) but has some weaknesses -- the perfect PG is a really good shooter, playmaker, defender and has the speed and skill to kill you off the dribble too. Great shooters can often not find their shot as easily late game and that becomes problematic.

I think even Durant suffers from this a LITTLE and he's the tallest/best shooter in the game. Dirk made his mark as a great shooter because he has the size and moves to free up his jumper. I think Durant needs to start adding some pet moves and pay attention to the placement and pet moves that Dirk developed to reliably go to when he needed them.

Durant gets by on his great talent more than this -- he has work to do IMO. So yeah, I'm not calling either guy anything but really good players, but I think they're a tad overrated yes and need to do more to be truly great.

Steph also turns it over quite a bit as a footnote, so that detracts from his playmaking too obviously, though StephNYKurry seems to ignore this for some reason. He's up over 3 TOPG.

\
"Durant and Curry are a tad overrated and need to do more to be truly great." For christ's sakes you have to be kidding me. And that was only maybe the third most ridiculous thing you said.

[CKamm1]

I don't think the Knicks are winning the lottery. So it's really, Towns, Russell or Mudiay.

A BOLD proclamation when we can with absolute certainty have no more than a 25% chance of winning it

[Lord Commander]

I'd be ecstatic if we ended up with okafor or Russell

Ahh but what if we end up with Frank Kaminsky? What then?

[K_ick_God]

No. I'm saying something other than what you think.

Shooting in general can be an overrated thing -- not saying Steph's shooting is overrated, at all. Saying that if that's your best strength, which for him it clearly is, players can get a little overrated on that basis. "at some level" -- meaning that after you are past a certain point of really good shooting, additional accuracy can be less important than whether you can pass and make plays.

The perfect point guard is not a guy who shoots it off the charts (as Steph does) but has some weaknesses -- the perfect PG is a really good shooter, playmaker, defender and has the speed and skill to kill you off the dribble too. Great shooters can often not find their shot as easily late game and that becomes problematic.

I think even Durant suffers from this a LITTLE and he's the tallest/best shooter in the game. Dirk made his mark as a great shooter because he has the size and moves to free up his jumper. I think Durant needs to start adding some pet moves and pay attention to the placement and pet moves that Dirk developed to reliably go to when he needed them.

Durant gets by on his great talent more than this -- he has work to do IMO. So yeah, I'm not calling either guy anything but really good players, but I think they're a tad overrated yes and need to do more to be truly great.

Steph also turns it over quite a bit as a footnote, so that detracts from his playmaking too obviously, though StephNYKurry seems to ignore this for some reason. He's up over 3 TOPG.

"Durant and Curry are a tad overrated and need to do more to be truly great." For christ's sakes you have to be kidding me. And that was only maybe the third most ridiculous thing you said.

You too are basically misunderstanding me lol. They are top players but to the extent people think they're finished products, already in the HOF and have done everything they need to do individually to win a championship -- which is basically what most fans think -- I disagree. To win titles and establish themselves as all-time greats, they need to perfect their games and round them out. They need to work on footwork and moves that will make the most of their great jumpers. I don't think they're there yet. If Dirk had not worked on it and gotten better, he'd be a great shooter with no titles.

A thing as simple as working on 1 or 2 unstoppable moves that you can go to in the clutch is big. Right now Durant uses his height and speed to get to the basket at will -- I'm not sure that's good enough. Durant is to me closer to already great great than Steph.

Too many people fall in love with stats and the NBA marketing machine. I mean really what have Steph and Durant done to warrant scoffing at the idea that they should work to mold their talents into better players? Not much. Steph never in a Finals and Durant's team got handled easily in his one Finals. The bar just keeps getting lower. As long as a guy is talented and flashy and can shoot, he's untouchable and beyond critique?

Gimme a break.

[mpharris36]

I don't think the Knicks are winning the lottery. So it's really, Towns, Russell or Mudiay.

A BOLD proclamation when we can with absolute certainty have no more than a 25% chance of winning it