Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player

[dakomish23]

Until you get to Pippen, Stockton, Malone, Rodman ... sure most of the all time greats go top 5 but they have to be all time greats.

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Rodman in top 25?

Now I would like to see 1-25 for you

Is that the best you've got?

The point remains the top 5 frequently doesn't yield an all time great because all time greats don't come arpund that often.

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When did I say they come around often?

I don’t fault anyone for wanting to be in position to get one

So say your 1-25. Looking forward to seeing Rodman on the list.

[prophet_of_rage]

Rodman in top 25?

Now I would like to see 1-25 for you

Is that the best you've got?

The point remains the top 5 frequently doesn't yield an all time great because all time greats don't come arpund that often.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

When did I say they come around often?

I don’t fault anyone for wanting to be in position to get one

So say your 1-25. Looking forward to seeing Rodman on the list.

Does tanking in this year get you an all time great? You're saying that this draft class is all time great?

And Rodman would only appear in my top 25 if I went by position not overall talent.

But again, is it worth throwing away this year and a talent like Randle for a talent that may or.may not even be better than RJ? And then what?

But here we go ... by position

C
1. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Bill Russell

PF
1. Tim Duncan
2. Karl Malone
3. Charles Barkley
4. Dennis Rodman
5. Kevin McHale

SF
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Larry Bird
4. Scottie Pippen
5. Kawhi Leonard

SG
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dwayne Wade
4. Jerry West
5. James Harden

PG
1. Magic Johnson
2. Isiaiah Thomas
3. Steph Curry
4. Jason Kidd
5. John Stockton


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[prophet_of_rage]

Rodman in top 25?

Now I would like to see 1-25 for you

Is that the best you've got?

The point remains the top 5 frequently doesn't yield an all time great because all time greats don't come arpund that often.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

When did I say they come around often?

I don’t fault anyone for wanting to be in position to get one

So say your 1-25. Looking forward to seeing Rodman on the list.

Now you tell me the all time great players in the 21 draft

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[NoDopeOnSundays]

Dennis Rodman over Dirk, KG and AD?

[NewKnicks]

I still think all three are better basketball players than Wade was. Just for context, I've been watching basketball intensely since 1992/93, so I'm not just too young to know Wade's game. I watched every game of his 2006 title run and still I can see when someone else is more talented than him.

You're flat out wrong on Wade's shooting. He was a D-League three point shooter compared to those three and overall basically couldn't shoot a three to save his life. He was a better finisher at the rim than Klay of course, but not better offensively in any regard than Harden or McGrady. Down two, I don't give him the shot over any of those three.

Wade was a great defender, of course. He was excellent at picking his spots and getting there, but the others are probably better at that and the same may be the case for Booker already, too. It gets tough when talking about defense and there really isn't much I can say to favor any of the others except for possibly Thompson.

After all, I stand by what I proposed: You put any of those three on Wade's teams and you get better results. His teammates were always off the charts.

It's the easy way out to credit Wade with the benefit of the doubt because of the achievements. But you can't tell me there's any scenario in which Wade upgrades a particular team any of those three players on. Wade on the Warriors? Worse. Wade next to Westbrook? Worse. Wade next to Yao? Still nothing. T-mac's is the saddest story. I'd have wished for him to play with Shaq or LeBron. He's literally one of the top talents to ever play the game and imo Wade couldn't have hung with him.

Wow. I don't even know where to start. We must have watched a different player. I know a lot will agree with me. Fox Sports has Wade as the 17th best player OF ALL TIME.

You're really selling Wade short. Wade carried teams before adding the big three. You need to go back and look, I'm not going to do it for you.

I'd love some back up here from other posters. Wade is one of the best players of all-time, PERIOD. That can't be questioned by you or anyone else.

Wade was the glue on those Big 3 years. He didn't care about stats, and did everything to keep that team going. Assists, steals, defense, scoring as needed. Wade also had an innate ability to take over games, and make huge shots, year after year. To sit her and say Harden is better than Wade at this time in Harden's career is not fair at all. Harden plays ZERO defense. Yes, he's one of the best scorers of all-time, but Wade was a way better all-around player than Harden will ever be.

Wade is top 3 shooting guards of all-time. McGrady was incredible, but his career was limited due to injuries. Wade obviously had a way better career. The only one of those three you could say is in the same league as Wade is Klay, but I still think Wade is the better player.

Again, you're really underselling one of the best players of all-time. Wade made every team he played for so much better.

Well dude, seems like you have nothing to hold against the notion that Wade might only chip in 6th at his position. Maybe it helps that Harden is actually a PG. But then again, is Steph a SG sometimes? No, gladly he isn't. But they're all better than Wade was, my friend.

I hate Harden, but he's better. Kyrie isn't, but Harden is. People call Klay a role player, but he's better than Wade was and if you listen to your heart, you know it. He doesn't need to dribble the ball to be that kind of monster. And T-Mac is easily the most purely talented basketball player outside of Jordan, Kobe, LeBron and Durant to ever play. We don't say that about wade because the best you can come up with is "he's #17 all time". I think that's a reach despite the championships he won next to Shaq and LeBron. Excusé moi.

Let me tell you something:

Dwyane your **** overrated flash Wade is a career 29% three point shooter. Don't ALL CAPS me, get your **** straight.

Okay. Wade and his championships are all overrated. But Klay and his championships are not. And Harden all of his championships.. and McGrady and all of his championships.. oh wait.

I'm done with this. I'll let someone else pick up the slack.

Wade was better than all the players you listed. That's my take, and millions who have actually watched the NBA feel the same, because they know basketball.

You, my friend, are pretty clueless to be honest.

[NewKnicks]

Is that the best you've got?

The point remains the top 5 frequently doesn't yield an all time great because all time greats don't come arpund that often.

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When did I say they come around often?

I don’t fault anyone for wanting to be in position to get one

So say your 1-25. Looking forward to seeing Rodman on the list.

Does tanking in this year get you an all time great? You're saying that this draft class is all time great?

And Rodman would only appear in my top 25 if I went by position not overall talent.

But again, is it worth throwing away this year and a talent like Randle for a talent that may or.may not even be better than RJ? And then what?

But here we go ... by position

C
1. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Bill Russell

PF
1. Tim Duncan
2. Karl Malone
3. Charles Barkley
4. Dennis Rodman
5. Kevin McHale

SF
1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Larry Bird
4. Scottie Pippen
5. Kawhi Leonard

SG
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dwayne Wade
4. Jerry West
5. James Harden

PG
1. Magic Johnson
2. Isiaiah Thomas
3. Steph Curry
4. Jason Kidd
5. John Stockton


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Don't let spree2kawhi see this list. He'll tell you that Harden, Klay and McGrady are all better than Wade.

[dakomish23]

Is that the best you've got?

The point remains the top 5 frequently doesn't yield an all time great because all time greats don't come arpund that often.

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When did I say they come around often?

I don’t fault anyone for wanting to be in position to get one

So say your 1-25. Looking forward to seeing Rodman on the list.

Now you tell me the all time great players in the 21 draft

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I never said anyone in this draft is. Maybe there could be one. I said I don’t fault ppl for wanting to be in the top part of the draft where they’ll be.

The year I wanted to tank hardest was 17-18 and that was for Luka who I thought would be great. Not all time great. That’s not realistic for any draft prospect.

[DowNY]

Read on Twitter

???

[prophet_of_rage]

Dennis Rodman over Dirk, KG and AD?

As a powee forward? Easy. AD isn't an all-time great. Five rings as the greatest role player ever. The greatest rebounder ever. The greatezt multi positional defendee ever. KG and Dirk would be next on my list with McHale.

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[prophet_of_rage]

When did I say they come around often?

I don’t fault anyone for wanting to be in position to get one

So say your 1-25. Looking forward to seeing Rodman on the list.

Now you tell me the all time great players in the 21 draft

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I never said anyone in this draft is. Maybe there could be one. I said I don’t fault ppl for wanting to be in the top part of the draft where they’ll be.

The year I wanted to tank hardest was 17-18 and that was for Luka who I thought would be great. Not all time great. That’s not realistic for any draft prospect.

Give me your list of who could be one. You wanted mine. I want yours. Who is worth trading away Randle for in this draft because you want a chance at an ATG?

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[prophet_of_rage]

Dennis Rodman over Dirk, KG and AD?

It did. Dakomish won't commit to anybody in the 21 class being an ATG.

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[dakomish23]

Now you tell me the all time great players in the 21 draft

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I never said anyone in this draft is. Maybe there could be one. I said I don’t fault ppl for wanting to be in the top part of the draft where they’ll be.

The year I wanted to tank hardest was 17-18 and that was for Luka who I thought would be great. Not all time great. That’s not realistic for any draft prospect.

Give me your list of who could be one. You wanted mine. I want yours. Who is worth trading away Randle for in this draft because you want a chance at an ATG?

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You gave a list of legends. Ppl we know who are all time greats.

You think me predicting who’s an all time great in this upcoming draft before college basketball is over is an equal task?

Show me where I said to trade Randle. I’ve been Randle island when he was still on the Lakers. I had him as a FA target. I celebrated the signing. I defended him last year a lot. Every single one of my posts this year has him in our future. Why are you deflecting from what my point was with a straw man?

[dakomish23]

Dennis Rodman over Dirk, KG and AD?

It did. Dakomish won't commit to anybody in the 21 class being an ATG.

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You love a straw man argument

[prophet_of_rage]

Funny I looked at nbadraft.net and they have us projected to take Greg Brown who's comparison is ... Nic Batum!

EVERYBODY WINS!

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[prophet_of_rage]

Dennis Rodman over Dirk, KG and AD?

It did. Dakomish won't commit to anybody in the 21 class being an ATG.

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You love a straw man argument

It isn't. You wanted my top 25 ... I wanted your potential ATGs in this draft class worth trading Randle.

That was the point of my statement that you waded into saying ... Rodman? What is the point of tanking now and giving away tslent for a crapshoot in the draft. The top 5 was no guarantee of a franxhise changer.

You said there possibly could be an ATG in this draft class. Name them. Shouldn't be hard.

I committed. You commit.

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[prophet_of_rage]

I never said anyone in this draft is. Maybe there could be one. I said I don’t fault ppl for wanting to be in the top part of the draft where they’ll be.

The year I wanted to tank hardest was 17-18 and that was for Luka who I thought would be great. Not all time great. That’s not realistic for any draft prospect.

Give me your list of who could be one. You wanted mine. I want yours. Who is worth trading away Randle for in this draft because you want a chance at an ATG?

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You gave a list of legends. Ppl we know who are all time greats.

You think me predicting who’s an all time great in this upcoming draft before college basketball is over is an equal task?

Show me where I said to trade Randle. I’ve been Randle island when he was still on the Lakers. I had him as a FA target. I celebrated the signing. I defended him last year a lot. Every single one of my posts this year has him in our future. Why are you deflecting from what my point was with a straw man?

Yes. It is an equal task. You asked me for a list of atgs. I'm asling whobyou think might be an atg in this draft worth tanking for.

Why is that so difficult? You wanted my list. I want yours.

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[dakomish23]

It did. Dakomish won't commit to anybody in the 21 class being an ATG.

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You love a straw man argument

It isn't. You wanted my top 25 ... I wanted your potential ATGs in this draft class worth trading Randle.

That was the point of my statement that you waded into saying ... Rodman? What is the point of tanking now and giving away tslent for a crapshoot in the draft. The top 5 was no guarantee of a franxhise changer.

You said there possibly could be an ATG in this draft class. Name them. Shouldn't be hard.

I committed. You commit.

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You are asking me to back up a claim I didn’t make.

I didn’t say anyone in the 2021 draft is an all time great.

I didn’t say trade Randle.

Straw man argument.

My only point was that downplaying draft position is crazy b/c most of your all time greats are at the top. That’s where my top 25 comment came from.

I don’t fault ppl for wanting to be in that top 5 in a draft (I didn’t say this one) for that reason.

That’s it.

You’re arguing with so many ppl that you’re now just blending the other arguments into this. together.

[prophet_of_rage]

You love a straw man argument

It isn't. You wanted my top 25 ... I wanted your potential ATGs in this draft class worth trading Randle.

That was the point of my statement that you waded into saying ... Rodman? What is the point of tanking now and giving away tslent for a crapshoot in the draft. The top 5 was no guarantee of a franxhise changer.

You said there possibly could be an ATG in this draft class. Name them. Shouldn't be hard.

I committed. You commit.

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You are asking me to back up a claim I didn’t make.

I didn’t say anyone in the 2021 draft is an all time great.

I didn’t say trade Randle.

Straw man argument.

My only point was that downplaying draft position is crazy b/c most of your all time greats are at the top. That’s where my top 25 comment came from.

I don’t fault ppl for wanting to be in that top 5 in a draft (I didn’t say this one) for that reason.

That’s it.

You’re arguing with so many ppl that you’re now just blending the other arguments into this. together.

No. I presented a list to Spree8 to say that there wasn't a need to be in the top draft slot because it isn't a guarantee of success.

You came in saying well most of your ATGs are picked top 5. I responded with Pippens, Rodmans, Stocktons, Malones.

You scoffed at my inclusion of Rpdman and wanted to see my top 25. I gave it to you. And I asked ypu for a list of potential ATGs that would make it worth giving up Randle in this draft because you are supporting the notion that it is worth having good draft position because that is where most ATGs are found.

So far you won't say anyone is worth the risk specifically just that it's a good theoretical idea.

No strawmen. No conflated arguments. I know to whom I am responding on every point.

I disagree with the idea of tanking without purpose. At some point it has to turn into something.

The Spurs and Celts did it to get a shot at Duncan who was killing college. The Cavs did it several times. Lebron was worth it. Kyrie and Wiggins? Maybe.

Chicago has been in the lottery for most of the time since Jordan retired. Philly wasted a bunch of picks tanking to get a 2nd rpund exit. They didn't really have a purpose until one was forced on them.

If there isn't an ATG targeted what's the benefit?

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[thebuzzardman]

Quick! Someone list the all time 50 greatest players and their draft order!

[thebuzzardman]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar #1
Tiny Archibald #2, 2nd round
Paul Arizin territorial
Charles Barkley #5
Rick Barry #2
Elgin Baylor #1
Dave Bing #2
Larry Bird #6
Wilt Chamberlain territorial
Bob Cousy #3
Dave Cowens #4
Billy Cunningham #5
Dave DeBusschere territorial
Clyde Drexler #14
Julius Erving #12 (nba draft and team probably knew he was going ABA)
Patrick Ewing #1
Walt Frazier #5
George Gervin 40th, 3rd round (Perhaps same as Julius)
Hal Greer 2nd round (6th pick, 13th overall)
John Havlicek #7
Elvin Hayes #1
Magic Johnson #1
Sam Jones #8
Michael Jordan #3
Jerry Lucas territorial
Karl Malone #13
Moses Malone ?
Pete Maravich #3
Kevin McHale #3
George Mikan ?
Earl Monroe #2
Shaquille O'Neal #1
Hakeem Olajuwon #1
Robert Parish #8
Bob Pettit #2
Scottie Pippen #5
Willis Reed #8
Oscar Robertson#1
David Robinson #1
Bill Russell #2
Dolph Schayes #4
Bill Sharman 2nd round
John Stockton #16
Isiah Thomas #2
Nate Thurmond #3
Wes Unseld #2
Bill Walton #1
Jerry West #2
Lenny Wilkens #6
James Worthy #1
LeBron James #1
Tim Duncan #1
Kobe Bryant #13
Kevin Durant #2
Stephen Curry #7
Dwyane Wade #5
Kevin Garnett #5
Dirk Nowitzki #9
Chris Paul #4
Allen Iverson #1
Jason Kidd #2
Steve Nash #15
Paul Pierce #10
Ray Allen #5
Tracy McGrady #9
Russell Westbrook #4
James Harden #3
Dwight Howard #1
Carmelo Anthony #3
Chris Webber #1
Gary Payton #2
Reggie Miller #11
Vince Carter #5
Manu Ginobli 2nd round, #28, 57th overall