The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ)

[aggo]

We aren’t a stacked team because we don’t have one or two top players, that is the case regardless of Randle and RJ.

Commentary on a twenty year old RJ being inefficient is even more meaningless given he’s nowhere near a finished product.

I don’t view either of them as a top player on a top team, but they can both be a significant part of a top team.

I'm a big believer in RJ and I expect him to improve every year for the foreseeable future. However, not only is he inefficient, he's inefficient in a limited 3&D role and he can't create his own offense. That's not very inspiring. While I believe his work ethic is eventually going to pay off, the idea is purely hypothetical. We must be realistic and admit that he hasn't shown signs that he'll ever turn into a consistent shot creator, let alone be efficient in that role. I personally believe he'll have a Jimmy Butler career arc, but based on what we've seen, we can't just count on him getting there.

There's no avenue for us to actually get "one or two top players" unless we part with a significant chunk of assets, seeing there's no one but Chris Paul and Kawhi Leonard who fits that description on the free agent market this summer. Randle's extension and possibly Mitch's and then RJ's will limit our flexibility and our ability to get one of those players as of 2022, hence their situation here is relevant.

I thought IQ and Obi showed a lot more than RJ and Julius did in the first round series against Atlanta. They didn't get the minutes, and they're not as well-rounded players as RJ and Julius as of today, but they get easier baskets, and they look like they could be more efficient players than those two down the line. My point is, if trades are needed to upgrade the roster, maybe IQ and Obi shouldn't be viewed merely as trade assets. Maybe they're the actual keepers. Just a thought.

I view RJ’s shot creation potential more in the P&R than in the face up ISO like a Tatum or Randle. I honestly think the player RJ should model his game after is ironically SGA, cause RJ can become a bigger version of what SGA is right now.

Watch on YouTube

Shai is one of the leaders in drives per game and likes to do his damage at the rim like RJ. He’s not super quick and uses screens a lot to open up his drives. The difference is that Shai has the threat of the pull up 3 to be effective in the P&R. If RJ learns to shoot 3’s off the dribble I can see his shot creating and playmaking abilities open up like we saw Randle did this year.

And I disagree about how we should value IQ and Obi. Obi definitely balled out and deserves his applause, but IQ was completely awful outside 2 runs in the first and last games. Atlanta didn’t let him get anything on offense and he averaged 6 points on .400 TS% for the series. He needs to learn to score inside consistently if he wants to take the next step.

idk if i agree with the RJ part-- but i do think that remains undetermined. next year will be important because he should receive more responsibilities on offense. but everything else is legit with your analysis on IQ/Obi.

I would be completely fine with trading IQ + picks in a heartbeat for someone like Lillard or Beal

[Nazrmohamed]

I feel like people were so happy with the statistical leap that Randle took that they weren't actually watching him on a play to play basis. There's no doubt that he had a phenomenal regular season where he put up some really nice numbers. There's also no doubt that even in his good games, everything other than a spot up looks extremely labored and difficult. He doesn't make anything look easy on offense. Even when he's hot, any possession where he's being defended with any intensity looks difficult. He doesn't have the skill or the athleticism to score the ball easily when teams are really committed to stopping him on every possession which is precisely what we saw play out against Atlanta. Most of those possessions end with an awkward step back jumper that he doesn't have the legs to hit with regularity. The eye test tells you that this just isn't a guy you can max out without setting your franchise back. If we get a good offer for him, we should take it unless a star becomes available who wants him specifically as their teammate.

In one post season against one team, that knew we had no other options they found a gamelan to stop Julius. It sucks, I'm sure Julius feels the same way but what I can't stand is how it defines everything about him. The whole season, his whole career.

None of us know who Julius is based on one series. I mean, what do we know about Tatum after he lost in the first round. What do we know about Jimmie Butler based off this one series. Literally only Julius has been exposed by a single series.

Do you think there's enough surrounding help?
Do you feel you have an adequate PG.?

If you think everything except Julius is just fine then let's just waive him right now and start winning titles. It's just crazy. People do realize that the Nets have 3 separate guys who are maxed out. Most teams have 2 guys who are maxed out. On the best teams thier 3rd best player is maxed out. Just max him out. So? He's not a true number 1 option and even that is arguable because again what you're demanding is what knick fans always demand. I wanna judge my single supposed stars value in comparison to other stars on teams way more stacked then ours.

We spend so much time attempting to find that number one star, hating on someone for failing to be that guy, dumping him, starting from scratch........we don't even keep number 2 stars. What's the big deal if your number 2 is on your roster first. That's like the Heat not signing Bosh because he isn't Lebron. No they signed Bosh and 6 days later signed Lebron. You guys have this ridiculous mathematical order of events that must happen.

My feeling is that Julius performance only made it more likely that he'd si g n the very reasonable extention we will lay out before him. If he doesn't you see what he can do and if he leaves then we sign other talent. It's just that simple. You could max Julius and STILL not build around him if that's the goal. Not all maxes are the same and his is very reasonable.

Sometimes I think we'd be better off having done worse and getting the 8th seed and getting swept. In alot of ways fans mightve been more understanding. In fact the following yr we could've upgraded to the 4rth seed (next yr) and everybody would've spoken of progress. Just relax

[Gravy]

I'm not sure how you define a #1 option anyway. Having one does not even guarantee you will compete for championships.

When Harden, AD and Kyrie had their own teams they were trashed for not being good enough to carry them to the finals because of their flaws. Jokic is the MVP and about to get swept in the 2nd round. People say you cant build around Giannis, Dame cant get to a finals etc.

I'd rather have a good team of a bunch of number 2s than a #1 struggling to do everything himself.

.

[N8isScofield]

I feel like people were so happy with the statistical leap that Randle took that they weren't actually watching him on a play to play basis. There's no doubt that he had a phenomenal regular season where he put up some really nice numbers. There's also no doubt that even in his good games, everything other than a spot up looks extremely labored and difficult. He doesn't make anything look easy on offense. Even when he's hot, any possession where he's being defended with any intensity looks difficult. He doesn't have the skill or the athleticism to score the ball easily when teams are really committed to stopping him on every possession which is precisely what we saw play out against Atlanta. Most of those possessions end with an awkward step back jumper that he doesn't have the legs to hit with regularity. The eye test tells you that this just isn't a guy you can max out without setting your franchise back. If we get a good offer for him, we should take it unless a star becomes available who wants him specifically as their teammate.

In one post season against one team, that knew we had no other options they found a gamelan to stop Julius. It sucks, I'm sure Julius feels the same way but what I can't stand is how it defines everything about him. The whole season, his whole career.

None of us know who Julius is based on one series. I mean, what do we know about Tatum after he lost in the first round. What do we know about Jimmie Butler based off this one series. Literally only Julius has been exposed by a single series.

Do you think there's enough surrounding help?
Do you feel you have an adequate PG.?

If you think everything except Julius is just fine then let's just waive him right now and start winning titles. It's just crazy. People do realize that the Nets have 3 separate guys who are maxed out. Most teams have 2 guys who are maxed out. On the best teams thier 3rd best player is maxed out. Just max him out. So? He's not a true number 1 option and even that is arguable because again what you're demanding is what knick fans always demand. I wanna judge my single supposed stars value in comparison to other stars on teams way more stacked then ours.

We spend so much time attempting to find that number one star, hating on someone for failing to be that guy, dumping him, starting from scratch........we don't even keep number 2 stars. What's the big deal if your number 2 is on your roster first. That's like the Heat not signing Bosh because he isn't Lebron. No they signed Bosh and 6 days later signed Lebron. You guys have this ridiculous mathematical order of events that must happen.

My feeling is that Julius performance only made it more likely that he'd si g n the very reasonable extention we will lay out before him. If he doesn't you see what he can do and if he leaves then we sign other talent. It's just that simple. You could max Julius and STILL not build around him if that's the goal. Not all maxes are the same and his is very reasonable.

Sometimes I think we'd be better off having done worse and getting the 8th seed and getting swept. In alot of ways fans mightve been more understanding. In fact the following yr we could've upgraded to the 4rth seed (next yr) and everybody would've spoken of progress. Just relax

What's funny is that you don't want to judge him based on a postseason that mirrored the majority of his career but you're good with thinking he's a solution based on what is so far a 72 game outlier that reverted to type the moment real pressure was on. If you could get out of your feelings then maybe you would realize that it's not hating or personal to appraise someone's god awful performance in the context of what it means for building around them going forward. I don't want to see anyone struggle. I want to see this franchise be successful. The name on the front means more to me than the name on the back. I want to see this team build around players who can bring us a championship. Guys who crumble the way Randle did and for whom the game looks hard even when they're playing well are not guys who are going to bring us a championship, especially if they're sucking up cap space better used on those who can. Instead of actually keeping your response to what I said about Randle now you make some strawmen like I said the rest of the roster was perfect when I damn sure didn't. That's emotional. It's not logical. I said that this guy doesn't pass the eye test as someone you can count on to lead a team to the promised land. You don't just max someone out for the f*ck of it. That's how you get stuck with bad contracts that impede you from bringing in true franchise altering talent. You want to just throw the bag at this guy off the back of one of the worst playoff performances by a "star" in history under the misguided assumption that other stars will just turn up to make that ok? Because they've been turning up in droves to play for us up until now, right? Randle was the damn consolation prize because they haven't. C'mon man.

[N8isScofield]

I feel like people were so happy with the statistical leap that Randle took that they weren't actually watching him on a play to play basis. There's no doubt that he had a phenomenal regular season where he put up some really nice numbers. There's also no doubt that even in his good games, everything other than a spot up looks extremely labored and difficult. He doesn't make anything look easy on offense. Even when he's hot, any possession where he's being defended with any intensity looks difficult. He doesn't have the skill or the athleticism to score the ball easily when teams are really committed to stopping him on every possession which is precisely what we saw play out against Atlanta. Most of those possessions end with an awkward step back jumper that he doesn't have the legs to hit with regularity. The eye test tells you that this just isn't a guy you can max out without setting your franchise back. If we get a good offer for him, we should take it unless a star becomes available who wants him specifically as their teammate.

It's funny you mention this because that's the thing that motivated me to start this thread. It's the visual impression of watching Randle (and RJ) play that troubled me. Then I started digging into some of the numbers to corroborate that impression and I noticed those patterns of scoring inefficiency from those two players and of stellar bench play from the Knicks.

But Julius and RJ generally seem to be forcing. It doesn't look natural when they play, it looks difficult. And in fact, they can't get easy baskets at the rim, because they're not the most athletic guys to begin with and they don't have great touch around the rim.

Exactly. RJ concerns me slightly less due to age and the fact that he does have a certain craftiness about him. Randle just doesn't do anything particularly well in terms of creating space or finishing around the rim. His handle isn't good, he's not creative in getting the shot and he's not athletic enough to get where he wants to go at will. If the jump shot isn't falling and the looks aren't clean then he's a decent rebounder and not much else. He panics when he's doubled so even with better shooters around him, you wonder if he'd even make the proper reads under pressure. He doesn't have a single reliable go to move, let alone a counter when they take the preferred move away. We've seen a guy like Giannis with otherworldly length and athleticism getting found out when his preference is taken away and yet you have guys that want to max out Randle when he looks like a G league player the minute playoff defense shows up.

[3toheadmelo]

I feel like people were so happy with the statistical leap that Randle took that they weren't actually watching him on a play to play basis. There's no doubt that he had a phenomenal regular season where he put up some really nice numbers. There's also no doubt that even in his good games, everything other than a spot up looks extremely labored and difficult. He doesn't make anything look easy on offense. Even when he's hot, any possession where he's being defended with any intensity looks difficult. He doesn't have the skill or the athleticism to score the ball easily when teams are really committed to stopping him on every possession which is precisely what we saw play out against Atlanta. Most of those possessions end with an awkward step back jumper that he doesn't have the legs to hit with regularity. The eye test tells you that this just isn't a guy you can max out without setting your franchise back. If we get a good offer for him, we should take it unless a star becomes available who wants him specifically as their teammate.

In one post season against one team, that knew we had no other options they found a gamelan to stop Julius. It sucks, I'm sure Julius feels the same way but what I can't stand is how it defines everything about him. The whole season, his whole career.

None of us know who Julius is based on one series. I mean, what do we know about Tatum after he lost in the first round. What do we know about Jimmie Butler based off this one series. Literally only Julius has been exposed by a single series.

Do you think there's enough surrounding help?
Do you feel you have an adequate PG.?

If you think everything except Julius is just fine then let's just waive him right now and start winning titles. It's just crazy. People do realize that the Nets have 3 separate guys who are maxed out. Most teams have 2 guys who are maxed out. On the best teams thier 3rd best player is maxed out. Just max him out. So? He's not a true number 1 option and even that is arguable because again what you're demanding is what knick fans always demand. I wanna judge my single supposed stars value in comparison to other stars on teams way more stacked then ours.

We spend so much time attempting to find that number one star, hating on someone for failing to be that guy, dumping him, starting from scratch........we don't even keep number 2 stars. What's the big deal if your number 2 is on your roster first. That's like the Heat not signing Bosh because he isn't Lebron. No they signed Bosh and 6 days later signed Lebron. You guys have this ridiculous mathematical order of events that must happen.

My feeling is that Julius performance only made it more likely that he'd si g n the very reasonable extention we will lay out before him. If he doesn't you see what he can do and if he leaves then we sign other talent. It's just that simple. You could max Julius and STILL not build around him if that's the goal. Not all maxes are the same and his is very reasonable.

Sometimes I think we'd be better off having done worse and getting the 8th seed and getting swept. In alot of ways fans mightve been more understanding. In fact the following yr we could've upgraded to the 4rth seed (next yr) and everybody would've spoken of progress. Just relax

Excellent post fam

[Chanel Bomber]

I feel like people were so happy with the statistical leap that Randle took that they weren't actually watching him on a play to play basis. There's no doubt that he had a phenomenal regular season where he put up some really nice numbers. There's also no doubt that even in his good games, everything other than a spot up looks extremely labored and difficult. He doesn't make anything look easy on offense. Even when he's hot, any possession where he's being defended with any intensity looks difficult. He doesn't have the skill or the athleticism to score the ball easily when teams are really committed to stopping him on every possession which is precisely what we saw play out against Atlanta. Most of those possessions end with an awkward step back jumper that he doesn't have the legs to hit with regularity. The eye test tells you that this just isn't a guy you can max out without setting your franchise back. If we get a good offer for him, we should take it unless a star becomes available who wants him specifically as their teammate.

In one post season against one team, that knew we had no other options they found a gamelan to stop Julius. It sucks, I'm sure Julius feels the same way but what I can't stand is how it defines everything about him. The whole season, his whole career.

None of us know who Julius is based on one series. I mean, what do we know about Tatum after he lost in the first round. What do we know about Jimmie Butler based off this one series. Literally only Julius has been exposed by a single series.

Do you think there's enough surrounding help?
Do you feel you have an adequate PG.?

If you think everything except Julius is just fine then let's just waive him right now and start winning titles. It's just crazy. People do realize that the Nets have 3 separate guys who are maxed out. Most teams have 2 guys who are maxed out. On the best teams thier 3rd best player is maxed out. Just max him out. So? He's not a true number 1 option and even that is arguable because again what you're demanding is what knick fans always demand. I wanna judge my single supposed stars value in comparison to other stars on teams way more stacked then ours.

We spend so much time attempting to find that number one star, hating on someone for failing to be that guy, dumping him, starting from scratch........we don't even keep number 2 stars. What's the big deal if your number 2 is on your roster first. That's like the Heat not signing Bosh because he isn't Lebron. No they signed Bosh and 6 days later signed Lebron. You guys have this ridiculous mathematical order of events that must happen.

My feeling is that Julius performance only made it more likely that he'd si g n the very reasonable extention we will lay out before him. If he doesn't you see what he can do and if he leaves then we sign other talent. It's just that simple. You could max Julius and STILL not build around him if that's the goal. Not all maxes are the same and his is very reasonable.

Sometimes I think we'd be better off having done worse and getting the 8th seed and getting swept. In alot of ways fans mightve been more understanding. In fact the following yr we could've upgraded to the 4rth seed (next yr) and everybody would've spoken of progress. Just relax

Excellent post fam

You (all of us, Leon) have to ask yourself the question:

Does Randle need help or does he ultimately need to be the one who helps?

And if the latter is true, how does his game translate to a #2 or #3 role?

The playoff sample size for Randle is limited but that's also the byproduct of him only making the playoffs once in his career. You can't overlook that fact either.

Not saying you or Nazr are wrong, but you have to take everything into account. Amar'e certainly couldn't make that adjustment in NY, although his game was obviously different. Committing to Randle isn't a no-brainer is my point - I think this decision depends largely on which roster moves are available and which trade offers are actually on the table.

[3toheadmelo]

In one post season against one team, that knew we had no other options they found a gamelan to stop Julius. It sucks, I'm sure Julius feels the same way but what I can't stand is how it defines everything about him. The whole season, his whole career.

None of us know who Julius is based on one series. I mean, what do we know about Tatum after he lost in the first round. What do we know about Jimmie Butler based off this one series. Literally only Julius has been exposed by a single series.

Do you think there's enough surrounding help?
Do you feel you have an adequate PG.?

If you think everything except Julius is just fine then let's just waive him right now and start winning titles. It's just crazy. People do realize that the Nets have 3 separate guys who are maxed out. Most teams have 2 guys who are maxed out. On the best teams thier 3rd best player is maxed out. Just max him out. So? He's not a true number 1 option and even that is arguable because again what you're demanding is what knick fans always demand. I wanna judge my single supposed stars value in comparison to other stars on teams way more stacked then ours.

We spend so much time attempting to find that number one star, hating on someone for failing to be that guy, dumping him, starting from scratch........we don't even keep number 2 stars. What's the big deal if your number 2 is on your roster first. That's like the Heat not signing Bosh because he isn't Lebron. No they signed Bosh and 6 days later signed Lebron. You guys have this ridiculous mathematical order of events that must happen.

My feeling is that Julius performance only made it more likely that he'd si g n the very reasonable extention we will lay out before him. If he doesn't you see what he can do and if he leaves then we sign other talent. It's just that simple. You could max Julius and STILL not build around him if that's the goal. Not all maxes are the same and his is very reasonable.

Sometimes I think we'd be better off having done worse and getting the 8th seed and getting swept. In alot of ways fans mightve been more understanding. In fact the following yr we could've upgraded to the 4rth seed (next yr) and everybody would've spoken of progress. Just relax

Excellent post fam

You (all of us, Leon) have to ask yourself the question:

Does Randle need help or does he ultimately need to be the one who helps?

And if the latter is true, how does his game translate to a #2 or #3 role?

The playoff sample size for Randle is limited but that's also the byproduct of him only making the playoffs once in his career. You can't overlook that fact either.

Not saying you or Nazr are wrong, but you have to take everything into account. Amar'e certainly couldn't make that adjustment in NY, although his game was obviously different. Committing to Randle isn't a no-brainer is my point - I think this decision depends largely on which roster moves are available and which trade offers are actually on the table.

Randle as a #3



You have to see how Randle looks with a PG and other legit offensive threats around him before considering trading him. Hawks put their whole defense on Randle and didn’t care about anyone else on the team. It’s much easier to shut down someone like that when there is no other scorers around him. And then having no PG to get him open looks doesn’t make it easier

[NYKnickerbocker]

I mean why can’t Randle play as more of a #2 lol. He’s shown to be a reliable outside shooter (at least this seaeon) and he’s a big who can function well in a pick and pop or pick n roll. Just make sure the lead dog is a playmaker I guess

Even tho he had 6 assist a game last year. You don’t want him dominating the ball that much

[Chanel Bomber]

Excellent post fam

You (all of us, Leon) have to ask yourself the question:

Does Randle need help or does he ultimately need to be the one who helps?

And if the latter is true, how does his game translate to a #2 or #3 role?

The playoff sample size for Randle is limited but that's also the byproduct of him only making the playoffs once in his career. You can't overlook that fact either.

Not saying you or Nazr are wrong, but you have to take everything into account. Amar'e certainly couldn't make that adjustment in NY, although his game was obviously different. Committing to Randle isn't a no-brainer is my point - I think this decision depends largely on which roster moves are available and which trade offers are actually on the table.

Randle as a #3



You have to see how Randle looks with a PG and other legit offensive threats around him before considering trading him. Hawks put their whole defense on Randle and didn’t care about anyone else on the team. It’s much easier to shut down someone like that when there is no other scorers around him. And then having no PG to get him open looks doesn’t make it easier

Bosh had the length and athleticism to protect the rim though, so the Heat could him at the 5 in small-ball line-ups to space the floor. Randle can play the 5 against certain match-ups (I thought Atlanta was one) but he's really a 4 through and through because of his lack of positional versatility, which limits our options in terms of roster construction (as he doesn't solve our situation at the 5 like Bosh did).

As far as the Atlanta series, I think it's revisionist history to claim that the Hawks threw everything at Randle. They rarely sent hard double teams at him. They just took away his left hand drives and had Capela roam around the paint to bother him and turn him to a jumpshooter. It would've have been different had Thibs played him at the 5. But Randle just couldn't capitalize against the Hawks defense, and that says something about his limitations.

I agree we need a PG but having a PG run the offense will also take away a lot of what made his good this year - ie his playmaking.

Bottom line is Randle really needs to improve as a scorer. There's no excuse for him to finish the season with a below-average TS% and to have such a miserable series against Atlanta. This will not magically disappear with decent point guard play (and which point guard anyway), he needs to be held responsible for this, just as RJ does.

[Ghetto Gospel]

You (all of us, Leon) have to ask yourself the question:

Does Randle need help or does he ultimately need to be the one who helps?

And if the latter is true, how does his game translate to a #2 or #3 role?

The playoff sample size for Randle is limited but that's also the byproduct of him only making the playoffs once in his career. You can't overlook that fact either.

Not saying you or Nazr are wrong, but you have to take everything into account. Amar'e certainly couldn't make that adjustment in NY, although his game was obviously different. Committing to Randle isn't a no-brainer is my point - I think this decision depends largely on which roster moves are available and which trade offers are actually on the table.

Randle as a #3



You have to see how Randle looks with a PG and other legit offensive threats around him before considering trading him. Hawks put their whole defense on Randle and didn’t care about anyone else on the team. It’s much easier to shut down someone like that when there is no other scorers around him. And then having no PG to get him open looks doesn’t make it easier

Bosh had the length and athleticism to protect the rim though, so the Heat could him at the 5 in small-ball line-ups to space the floor. Randle can play the 5 against certain match-ups (I thought Atlanta was one) but he's really a 4 through and through because of his lack of positional versatility, which limits our options in terms of roster construction (as he doesn't solve our situation at the 5 like Bosh did).

As far as the Atlanta series, I think it's revisionist history to claim that the Hawks threw everything at Randle. They rarely sent hard double teams at him. They just took away his left hand drives and had Capela roam around the paint to bother him and turn him to a jumpshooter. It would've have been different had Thibs played him at the 5. But Randle just couldn't capitalize against the Hawks defense, and that says something about his limitations.

I agree we need a PG but having a PG run the offense will also take away a lot of what made his good this year - ie his playmaking.

Bottom line is Randle really needs to improve as a scorer. There's no excuse for him to finish the season with a below-average TS% and to have such a miserable series against Atlanta. This will not magically disappear with decent point guard play (and which point guard anyway), he needs to be held responsible for this, just as RJ does.

I'm not sure you need that much size and length to guard the paint like that anymore. With the way the game is played now, there are a bunch of guys that can guard the paint that are comparable in size or even smaller than Randle. Truly, I believe it comes down to hustle and heart. Just from watching Nets/Bucks, PJ Tucker, Blake Griffin, Jeff Green are true 4's through and through, but they play with so much energy and effort that positionally you can slot them in at the 5. Ultimately, these guys protect the rim not with their arms and length, but with their bodies and their heart. Even Kyle Lowry, though not a center offers a ton of rim/paint protection by just rotating over and setting up shop. We just need to somehow get Randle to buy in and play the way that other small ball 5's do, if ever. It isn't really something that stars in the league like to do as seen with Anthony Davis who's barely willing to play C even in the playoffs

[Nazrmohamed]

In one post season against one team, that knew we had no other options they found a gamelan to stop Julius. It sucks, I'm sure Julius feels the same way but what I can't stand is how it defines everything about him. The whole season, his whole career.

None of us know who Julius is based on one series. I mean, what do we know about Tatum after he lost in the first round. What do we know about Jimmie Butler based off this one series. Literally only Julius has been exposed by a single series.

Do you think there's enough surrounding help?
Do you feel you have an adequate PG.?

If you think everything except Julius is just fine then let's just waive him right now and start winning titles. It's just crazy. People do realize that the Nets have 3 separate guys who are maxed out. Most teams have 2 guys who are maxed out. On the best teams thier 3rd best player is maxed out. Just max him out. So? He's not a true number 1 option and even that is arguable because again what you're demanding is what knick fans always demand. I wanna judge my single supposed stars value in comparison to other stars on teams way more stacked then ours.

We spend so much time attempting to find that number one star, hating on someone for failing to be that guy, dumping him, starting from scratch........we don't even keep number 2 stars. What's the big deal if your number 2 is on your roster first. That's like the Heat not signing Bosh because he isn't Lebron. No they signed Bosh and 6 days later signed Lebron. You guys have this ridiculous mathematical order of events that must happen.

My feeling is that Julius performance only made it more likely that he'd si g n the very reasonable extention we will lay out before him. If he doesn't you see what he can do and if he leaves then we sign other talent. It's just that simple. You could max Julius and STILL not build around him if that's the goal. Not all maxes are the same and his is very reasonable.

Sometimes I think we'd be better off having done worse and getting the 8th seed and getting swept. In alot of ways fans mightve been more understanding. In fact the following yr we could've upgraded to the 4rth seed (next yr) and everybody would've spoken of progress. Just relax

Excellent post fam

You (all of us, Leon) have to ask yourself the question:

Does Randle need help or does he ultimately need to be the one who helps?

And if the latter is true, how does his game translate to a #2 or #3 role?

The playoff sample size for Randle is limited but that's also the byproduct of him only making the playoffs once in his career. You can't overlook that fact either.

Not saying you or Nazr are wrong, but you have to take everything into account. Amar'e certainly couldn't make that adjustment in NY, although his game was obviously different. Committing to Randle isn't a no-brainer is my point - I think this decision depends largely on which roster moves are available and which trade offers are actually on the table.

And that's fair. I see the bolded part. I just meant for how things mightve gone this yr. I'm not delusional. I think I can agree with you from the standpoint that he's obviously not a number 1 on a title team. But I don't think anybody felt that way.
But that's why I'm saying we have this view or misbelief that in order to earn a max he has to prove he could win a title alone or with great help who are lesser than him. You brought up alot of top tandems and the stats. It definitely was eye opening but I think all of them make the max. And Julius extension should he take it, it's very reasonable. He could be exactly what you describe and it still be fair.......but even more, not prevent you from actually going after a guy you approve of.

And then yes, absolutely I think Julius can defer. Hes always passing the ball so it's not like he's selfish, he just has a usage I'm line to what just about any player of his experience and skill in proportion to the surrounding talent of this team. And yes, for now it's surrounding talent. It may be another yr of surrounding talent considering this FA class. But that doesn't have to be permanent.

The sad truth is Randle may have to be the worst of 3 role players and young guys we wanna fall in love with may end up casualties. Actually it happen once like you said. We signed Amare and then traded for the player better than him. So we're resigning Julius. Maybe trading for the player better than him and then in FA also signing another player better than him. That's if the Knicks get thier way. The sad truth might be the Knicks don't value thier youth the same way thier fans do. Not saying it's what I want to happen but I just know how Dolan thinks.

[HarthorneWingo]

I’m listening to Macri’s interview with of NY sportswriter Ian O’Conner who says that Thibs has gone on record that the Knicks’ organization has to be aggressive in acquiring top NBA talent by any means possible including developing and then trading their own players. @ approximately 59:00.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/knicks-film-school/id1439034317?i=1000524910115

[aggo]

Excellent post fam

You (all of us, Leon) have to ask yourself the question:

Does Randle need help or does he ultimately need to be the one who helps?

And if the latter is true, how does his game translate to a #2 or #3 role?

The playoff sample size for Randle is limited but that's also the byproduct of him only making the playoffs once in his career. You can't overlook that fact either.

Not saying you or Nazr are wrong, but you have to take everything into account. Amar'e certainly couldn't make that adjustment in NY, although his game was obviously different. Committing to Randle isn't a no-brainer is my point - I think this decision depends largely on which roster moves are available and which trade offers are actually on the table.

Randle as a #3



You have to see how Randle looks with a PG and other legit offensive threats around him before considering trading him. Hawks put their whole defense on Randle and didn’t care about anyone else on the team. It’s much easier to shut down someone like that when there is no other scorers around him. And then having no PG to get him open looks doesn’t make it easier

ty ty ty ty ty

FINALLY someone now posting the stuff ive been writing for weeks.


WE NEED a PNR pg who can create. Randle isnt a #1 option because hes a forward who has limited point-forward capabilities. Point fowards rn are like 2 in the NBA-- they dont really **** exist, and when they do sometimes offense looks so **** bad.

see LAC, ppl talking about how theres no chemistry
see Giannis who is no longer a point-forward basically.
even look at the pelicans who have 2 ball dominant players in zion/BI and none of them have any chemistry.

point-fowards look bad because its actually just a ton of iso due to how much switching there is now in the league. PGs who can go downhill immediately or pass out of the PNR is what we need, and what Randle needs.


We need a guard who can create and run the PNR so that we take ball handling pressure away from Randle. It's that **** simple.

[FreeSpiritNY]

rj is going to be a average player that will wow you at times and a player who makes you go OMFG did really just do that dumb schit.


It dumbfounded be on how many times someone scored in the corner with RJ supposedly defending that person.

You can how bad Julius played which ive stated he played the worst in NBA history. Which is a fact in the playoffs. But RJ himself also cost us two games and then went on to say he found his way.

Call me stupid but I would trade him for the young dude on okc, lavine or beal. At least with beal or lavine you know your going to get amazing offense. With rj its like hey im going to be average tonight and score 15-20 with ok defense or go 3-17 with horrible defense. It's like when one aspect of his game is off he is just really off.


Great kid but not the smartest player

My bone to pick with randle is all that talk with the letter ETC, he not only didn't show up but his attitude was weak.

I would keep RJ if that meant trading randle for some picks. OR trading RJ for one of he three both of them do not work together unless somehow you magically restructure the whole team.


P.S ROSE IS A BOSS 1 more mvp vote than randle.. LMAO

[HarthorneWingo]

According to Macri:

Randle’s All-Star and playoff bonuses get counted when calculating his extension. So, instead of 4 years/$106M it’s 4 years/$116M.

[Montmorencie]

Nah, Bosch was a top 10 player in the league at the time for 3-4 years before he joined Heat. Julius ain't even in top 25 unfortunately and it's only been a year.

He needs to keep improving in playoffs and at least keep the same level for regular seasons for 2-3 years to make that comparison.

[Ray Williams]

According to Macri:

Randle’s All-Star and playoff bonuses get counted when calculating his extension. So, instead of 4 years/$106M it’s 4 years/$116M.

That doesn’t mean we have to give it to him. Show some constraint.

[dakomish23]

This playoff performance really has ppl overreacting.

We got there b/c of the guys who are a part of our future.

Pretending Randle will always perform this way in the playoffs or that RJB wasn't a huge part of the turnaround this year & is done developing is shortsighted.

Cmon folks. The smart moves paid off despite all the stupidity surrounding them. And there was a mountain of stupidity surrounding them, #1 being the summer before & the season of 17-18.

The goal should be to build upon it with more smart moves, not tear it down b/c it's not perfect right now.

Don't be prisoners of the moment.

[dakomish23]

According to Macri:

Randle’s All-Star and playoff bonuses get counted when calculating his extension. So, instead of 4 years/$106M it’s 4 years/$116M.

Does this in any way impact our cap space this year? My assumption is no & we could do it after we spend all our space, but I haven't looked into it