Knicks-Related Trade "THOUGHTS" Thread

[moocow007]

Thought I'd post this hear since it might be just BS.

http://hoops-nation.com/nba-rumors-bulls-talking-carmelo-anthony-trade-knicks/

According to sources inside the Chicago Bulls organization, the team has been in discussions with the New York Knicks over the last couple of weeks regarding a trade for Carmelo Anthony. The two sides have been rumored to have interest, but according to this report the talks have already been going on for the past couple of weeks.

The report states that the Bulls would be giving up Carlos Boozer, Kirk Hinrich, Tony Snell, Jimmy Butler, and likely a first round pick as well. In return, Chicago would receive Carmelo Anthony, Raymond Felton, and Iman Shumpert.

That trade sucks the big wazoo for the Knicks.

Boozer is useless. Paired with Stoudemire it would be hilariously useless. Even Kendrick Perkins can go triple double on that duo in the paint lol.

Hinrich, in this system, would look just as bad as all the other Knicks PG's...see Felton.

Tony Snell has the intensity of a can of peas and would make Tyson Chandler demeanor nowadays like prime time Michael Jordan or Reggie Miller against the Knicks.

So it's basically just Jimmy Butler and "likely a 1st round pick?" for Carmelo Anthony. Let's be quite quite quite quite quite honest here. Jimmy Butler is one of the more overrated players in the NBA (especially on this board). He's a system player. Put him in a great system and he'll look fine. Put him in a poo system and he doesn't have the game to be anything more than a moderate upgrade over Iman Shumpert...who once he gets into a real system likely will look like Jimmy Butler II in Chicago while Jimmy Butler will likely become Iman Shumpert II in NY.

At least Mirotic should be included and you take out Boozer and add Taj Gibson. But even then Gibson is another system player that is really nothing more than a good role player. So the hope is that a Mirotic can really live up to the hype of what? That he may be the next Wally Szcerbiak? Wow.

Unless the Bulls are also willing to swap Tom Thibodeau for Mike Woodson and/or Anthony comes out and says "trade me to the Bulls or I'm leaving via FA" and/or the Bulls help the Knicks find a taker for Stoudemire, this makes no sense.

All this trade in it's original rumored form does is make the Bulls much better (short term and long term) and give the Nuggets even a greater chance to embarrass the Knicks come lottery time (just when you thought it couldn't possibly get any worse).

[mpharris36]

Moo, let me state that I don't want to trade Melo.

And I agree the deal is not where the knicks need it but it solves a couple issues. Gets rid of Felton (3 yr deal) for a hinrich 1 year deal)

Boozer is on a 2 year deal which means he expires when Bargs and Amare expire. Taj is a system player that is on a 4 year deal right now. That eats into much needed space.

Butler plus hopefully a couple 1st rounders (not interested in snell)

Then trade tyson for another filler plus a 1st rounder.

Now you have 3-4 1st round picks plus we will probably be terrible next year and land a top pick. So now we have 4-5 decent rookies with THjr, Tyler, Butler, Murry getting a lot of playing time and basically all the cap space in 2015 with a top 5 pick to rebuild.

That is only and only if Melo wants to leave, but it seems like the best move to make if he does want to leave.

[moocow007]

even bulls fan say they would be getting away with murder.

They either take cokehead and give us and extra pick instead of snell and I would consider it.

Chicago needs to understand which I think they do is that Chicago is not Melo's first choice so for them to have the leverege by trading for him now and then being able to offer his the most money would be benificial to them.

I don't want to trade Melo but if he is going and we know he is going then we have to get the best possible package for him.

Why instead of Snell? Include Snell as well...JR Smith instead of Shumpert...AND another 1st round pick. At least then it's basically Jimmy Butler and a couple Bulls 1st round picks (which likely will have marginal value with Anthony's offense tag teamed with Thibodeau's defense, Noah's presence and possibly Derek Rose starting next season for the long haul)...and that's arguably not even as good as what the Knicks gave up to get Anthony in the first place.

[R-DAWG]

even bulls fan say they would be getting away with murder.

They either take cokehead and give us and extra pick instead of snell and I would consider it.

Chicago needs to understand which I think they do is that Chicago is not Melo's first choice so for them to have the leverege by trading for him now and then being able to offer his the most money would be benificial to them.

I don't want to trade Melo but if he is going and we know he is going then we have to get the best possible package for him.

In a deal the Knicks need the follow:
-Chicago's 2014 1st round pick as the cost of eating Boozers contract
-Butler for Shumpert - no need for Snell with Hardaway and Butler on the roster, lateral move but Shump needs a change of scenery and Butler has more size to play SF with THJ at the 2 in NY.
-Charlotte's 2014 first round pick
-Hinrich's expiring in exchange for Felton or JR (Chicago's choice), either way helps NY's 2015 cap space
-Chicago's first round pick in 2016
-The rights to Mirotic

It's simple, the Bulls will not have space to sign Melo without trading Taj Gibson, who is a very good player. This deal is essentially 3 first rd picks, Mirotic and Butler for Melo, Shump, Gibson, Felton/Smith and the full mid level exemption in the offseason. It's a really a fair trade and the Knicks need to strongly consider it if a package like this becomes available. Follow it up with Chandler for 2 picks while taking back a contract and now your set up for the future with extra picks, young players, and cap space.

[R-DAWG]

even bulls fan say they would be getting away with murder.

They either take cokehead and give us and extra pick instead of snell and I would consider it.

Chicago needs to understand which I think they do is that Chicago is not Melo's first choice so for them to have the leverege by trading for him now and then being able to offer his the most money would be benificial to them.

I don't want to trade Melo but if he is going and we know he is going then we have to get the best possible package for him.

Why instead of Snell? Include Snell as well...JR Smith instead of Shumpert...AND another 1st round pick. At least then it's basically Jimmy Butler and a couple Bulls 1st round picks (which likely will have marginal value with Anthony's offense tag teamed with Thibodeau's defense, Noah's presence and possibly Derek Rose starting next season for the long haul)...and that's arguably not even as good as what the Knicks gave up to get Anthony in the first place.

remember the Knicks traded for a guy who was 25 turning 26, they are trading a guy who is 29 going on 30.

[R-DAWG]

Thought I'd post this hear since it might be just BS.

http://hoops-nation.com/nba-rumors-bulls-talking-carmelo-anthony-trade-knicks/

According to sources inside the Chicago Bulls organization, the team has been in discussions with the New York Knicks over the last couple of weeks regarding a trade for Carmelo Anthony. The two sides have been rumored to have interest, but according to this report the talks have already been going on for the past couple of weeks.

The report states that the Bulls would be giving up Carlos Boozer, Kirk Hinrich, Tony Snell, Jimmy Butler, and likely a first round pick as well. In return, Chicago would receive Carmelo Anthony, Raymond Felton, and Iman Shumpert.

That trade sucks the big wazoo for the Knicks.

Boozer is useless. Paired with Stoudemire it would be hilariously useless. Even Kendrick Perkins can go triple double on that duo in the paint lol.

Hinrich, in this system, would look just as bad as all the other Knicks PG's...see Felton.

Tony Snell has the intensity of a can of peas and would make Tyson Chandler demeanor nowadays like prime time Michael Jordan or Reggie Miller against the Knicks.

So it's basically just Jimmy Butler and "likely a 1st round pick?" for Carmelo Anthony. Let's be quite quite quite quite quite honest here. Jimmy Butler is one of the more overrated players in the NBA (especially on this board). He's a system player. Put him in a great system and he'll look fine. Put him in a poo system and he doesn't have the game to be anything more than a moderate upgrade over Iman Shumpert...who once he gets into a real system likely will look like Jimmy Butler II in Chicago while Jimmy Butler will likely become Iman Shumpert II in NY.

At least Mirotic should be included and you take out Boozer and add Taj Gibson. But even then Gibson is another system player that is really nothing more than a good role player. So the hope is that a Mirotic can really live up to the hype of what? That he may be the next Wally Szcerbiak? Wow.

Unless the Bulls are also willing to swap Tom Thibodeau for Mike Woodson and/or Anthony comes out and says "trade me to the Bulls or I'm leaving via FA" and/or the Bulls help the Knicks find a taker for Stoudemire, this makes no sense.

All this trade in it's original rumored form does is make the Bulls much better (short term and long term) and give the Nuggets even a greater chance to embarrass the Knicks come lottery time (just when you thought it couldn't possibly get any worse).

Boozer is a contract to make the deal work and should require an additional first rd pick going to NY. Remember, in the Bargs deal the first round pick went to TOR because they eat Novak's deal.

[SuperflyKnick]

Thought I'd post this hear since it might be just BS.

http://hoops-nation.com/nba-rumors-bulls-talking-carmelo-anthony-trade-knicks/

According to sources inside the Chicago Bulls organization, the team has been in discussions with the New York Knicks over the last couple of weeks regarding a trade for Carmelo Anthony. The two sides have been rumored to have interest, but according to this report the talks have already been going on for the past couple of weeks.

The report states that the Bulls would be giving up Carlos Boozer, Kirk Hinrich, Tony Snell, Jimmy Butler, and likely a first round pick as well. In return, Chicago would receive Carmelo Anthony, Raymond Felton, and Iman Shumpert.

Not enough for Carmelo alone, forget adding Shumpert... We already have 2 boozers on this team overpaid and flawed so do we need another ?

[moocow007]

Moo, let me state that I don't want to trade Melo.

And I agree the deal is not where the knicks need it but it solves a couple issues. Gets rid of Felton (3 yr deal) for a hinrich 1 year deal)

Boozer is on a 2 year deal which means he expires when Bargs and Amare expire. Taj is a system player that is on a 4 year deal right now. That eats into much needed space.

Butler plus hopefully a couple 1st rounders (not interested in snell)

Then trade tyson for another filler plus a 1st rounder.

Now you have 3-4 1st round picks plus we will probably be terrible next year and land a top pick. So now we have 4-5 decent rookies with THjr, Tyler, Butler, Murry getting a lot of playing time and basically all the cap space in 2015 with a top 5 pick to rebuild.

That is only and only if Melo wants to leave, but it seems like the best move to make if he does want to leave.

The problem is that a lot of the above is Fools Gold...as in looks greater than it really is.

Jimmy Butler is a terrific role player...but a role player none the less. He's on a team that perfectly fits the role that he can provide. That team and that coach isn't coming with Butler in this deal. If it was sure...makes a lot more sense. Butler is likely going to get marginalized here in NY with Woodson and his crap system...just like Shumpert has.

Even with Rose injured and them having traded their 2nd best player, the Bulls (thanks to Thibodeau) is still a playoff team (IMO a playoff lock this year). So that 1st round pick this year (do they even have one they can trade) isn't a lottery pick. Next season? With a healthy Rose (one would assume) and Anthony and Thibodeau and Noah? That team is right back into the elite for the forseeable future. That means whatever other 1st round pick will probably be bottom of the barrel.

Getting rid of Felton's contract is great but he's only due $3.7 m in that 3rd year. If we were talking about $13-16 million then absolutely.

Just my take.

[mpharris36]

even bulls fan say they would be getting away with murder.

They either take cokehead and give us and extra pick instead of snell and I would consider it.

Chicago needs to understand which I think they do is that Chicago is not Melo's first choice so for them to have the leverege by trading for him now and then being able to offer his the most money would be benificial to them.

I don't want to trade Melo but if he is going and we know he is going then we have to get the best possible package for him.

Why instead of Snell? Include Snell as well...JR Smith instead of Shumpert...AND another 1st round pick. At least then it's basically Jimmy Butler and a couple Bulls 1st round picks (which likely will have marginal value with Anthony's offense tag teamed with Thibodeau's defense and possibly Derek Rose)...and that's arguably not even as good as what the Knicks gave up to get Anthony in the first place.

I would rather have an extra late first rounder then snell. Not a fan of his.

So if its 2 1st rounders and snell. I would rather have them trade us 3 first rounders (they can keep snell).

Maybe something like this.

Boozer, Hinrich, Butler, and 3 first round picks ( i want the bobcats 2014 pick, bulls 2014 pick, and a 2015 pick bulls?)

for

Melo, Felton, and JR Smith

Then I trade Chandler and Shumpert to the suns for

Okafor and 2 first round picks

Wizards and Pacers Picks??

Try and trade JR smith for a guy with a larger 2 year deal and possibly a second round pick?

Now you have 6 1st round picks in the next 2 years (including our own one) plus we will have no on on the books except butler and thjr and rookie deals going into the 2015-16 offseason.

[mpharris36]

Moo, let me state that I don't want to trade Melo.

And I agree the deal is not where the knicks need it but it solves a couple issues. Gets rid of Felton (3 yr deal) for a hinrich 1 year deal)

Boozer is on a 2 year deal which means he expires when Bargs and Amare expire. Taj is a system player that is on a 4 year deal right now. That eats into much needed space.

Butler plus hopefully a couple 1st rounders (not interested in snell)

Then trade tyson for another filler plus a 1st rounder.

Now you have 3-4 1st round picks plus we will probably be terrible next year and land a top pick. So now we have 4-5 decent rookies with THjr, Tyler, Butler, Murry getting a lot of playing time and basically all the cap space in 2015 with a top 5 pick to rebuild.

That is only and only if Melo wants to leave, but it seems like the best move to make if he does want to leave.

The problem is that a lot of the above is Fools Gold...as in looks greater than it really is.

Jimmy Butler is a terrific role player...but a role player none the less. He's on a team that perfectly fits the role that he can provide. That team and that coach isn't coming with Butler in this deal. If it was sure...makes a lot more sense. Butler is likely going to get marginalized here in NY with Woodson and his crap system...just like Shumpert has.

Even with Rose injured and them having traded their 2nd best player, the Bulls (thanks to Thibodeau) is still a playoff team (IMO a playoff lock this year). So that 1st round pick this year (do they even have one they can trade) isn't a lottery pick. Next season? With a healthy Rose (one would assume) and Anthony and Thibodeau and Noah? That team is right back into the elite for the forseeable future. That means whatever other 1st round pick will probably be bottom of the barrel.

Getting rid of Felton's contract is great but he's only due $3.7 m in that 3rd year. If we were talking about $13-16 million then absolutely.

Just my take.

woodson wouldn't be coaching butler...i assume we would fire woodson and bring in a new coach and with all the picks he can work with the guys and bring in the players he likes.

[LJ4pointplay]

Per wiretap, Wizards interested in trading for backup PG. Quick lets move Felton for a 2015 expiring.

[mpharris36]

Per wiretap, Wizards interested in trading for backup PG. Quick lets move Felton for a 2015 expiring.

Felton and Beno for Maynor and Singleton work in the trade machine.

Mayner has a 2 year deal and singleton is a FA next year. Would clear up more space for 2015.

[dakomish]

for folks who are dying to keep Shump and keep defending him - this season's #'s don't lie:

1. Shump has scored zero 8 times
2. Shump has scored 5 pts or less THIRTY TIMES
3. Shump has scored double digits 13 times

Untouchable! Not meant as a prospect, but as in the meaning of the Indian caste system. This guy is horrible

[cw3k]

even bulls fan say they would be getting away with murder.

They either take cokehead and give us and extra pick instead of snell and I would consider it.

Chicago needs to understand which I think they do is that Chicago is not Melo's first choice so for them to have the leverege by trading for him now and then being able to offer his the most money would be benificial to them.

I don't want to trade Melo but if he is going and we know he is going then we have to get the best possible package for him.

The knicks know Melo wants/needs major help and maybe the are coming to realize they have no way of getting him any next year, you also have to wonder if getting nothing in return for Lin has made them weary of getting nothing for Melo.

Lin was still an unknown, I consider this more like the Cleveland and LeBron situation. You can't let Melo walk for nothing. If they have spoken to him and he said I don't want to wait next year as well to get help in 2015. Then you seriously have to consider trading him.

Trading Tyson for a filler and a 1st round pick
Trading Melo, Shumpert, and Felton for Butler, Boozer, Hinrich, and mutliple (key are multiple) 3 first rounders I prefer but I would take 2 first rounders and Snell.

Then try to trade JR for a 2 year contract and a 2nd round pick or something like that to a team that needs bench scoring.

Part of the problem is a Melo trade is he is a 'rental'. So which ever team is trading him, it must be a destination he wants to stay. It makes no sense for the other team to give up assets and then let Melo walk for nothing. Melo can get max every where, but the thing he wants most is to win. There isn't so many teams that can offer that to him. The best destination and trading partner for the Melo trade is the Rockets.

Rockets wants a 3rd start and they have cap for that if they can unload Lin/Asik's contracts. Rockets will package Parson and some picks too. If Melo plays SF, there is no need for Parson. Knicks can build a team around Lin, Asik and Parson. Lin is a combo guard and still room to improve. Not to mention all the marketing power he brings. Asik is one of the top 5 defensive center and have plenty of time to improve his catching skill. Parson is a complete player.

[mpharris36]

lin is not coming back to NY stop it gues. And Lin, Asik, Parsons is a mediocre .500 treading water type team. No thanks.

Give me picks and low salary young players. Not interested in Asik and Lin deals.

[R-DAWG]

The knicks know Melo wants/needs major help and maybe the are coming to realize they have no way of getting him any next year, you also have to wonder if getting nothing in return for Lin has made them weary of getting nothing for Melo.

Lin was still an unknown, I consider this more like the Cleveland and LeBron situation. You can't let Melo walk for nothing. If they have spoken to him and he said I don't want to wait next year as well to get help in 2015. Then you seriously have to consider trading him.

Trading Tyson for a filler and a 1st round pick
Trading Melo, Shumpert, and Felton for Butler, Boozer, Hinrich, and mutliple (key are multiple) 3 first rounders I prefer but I would take 2 first rounders and Snell.

Then try to trade JR for a 2 year contract and a 2nd round pick or something like that to a team that needs bench scoring.

Part of the problem is a Melo trade is he is a 'rental'. So which ever team is trading him, it must be a destination he wants to stay. It makes no sense for the other team to give up assets and then let Melo walk for nothing. Melo can get max every where, but the thing he wants most is to win. There isn't so many teams that can offer that to him. The best destination and trading partner for the Melo trade is the Rockets.

Rockets wants a 3rd start and they have cap for that if they can unload Lin/Asik's contracts. Rockets will package Parson and some picks too. If Melo plays SF, there is no need for Parson. Knicks can build a team around Lin, Asik and Parson. Lin is a combo guard and still room to improve. Not to mention all the marketing power he brings. Asik is one of the top 5 defensive center and have plenty of time to improve his catching skill. Parson is a complete player.

Melo can't get his max earning potential anywhere. He can lock up 1 extra year and $30 million by resigning with the team he ends the season with. The only 35 year old guys who get $30 million a year have 5 rings and 7 finals appearances (Kobe). I doubt Melo walks away from Rose and Noah and a market like Chicago for $30 million less.

[Johnny Hoops]

What I like about the Bulls is that they were so close they could taste it and they still have enough pieces that they may think Melo could help get them to the top.

I like that they may need us more than some other destinations that have been discussed (Clippers/Suns) --- and we might be able to squeeze an extra pick or 2 out of them as opposed to elsewhere.

[Marty McFly]

phoenix-has a **** load of picks, want a young star.

boston-has a **** load of picks, need someone to put them over the top. i think melo and tyson make them a formidable team in the east.

phil- has 2 2014 lottery picks a young core led by pg MCW and a prospect in nerlens noel in the front court that has yet to play. they're probably not interested in melo for that. can you imagine if they land both picks in the top 2? embiid, wiggins, MCW and noel? yikes. that's baby okc east.

[cw3k]

Melo can't get his max earning potential anywhere. He can lock up 1 extra year and $30 million by resigning with the team he ends the season with. The only 35 year old guys who get $30 million a year have 5 rings and 7 finals appearances (Kobe). I doubt Melo walks away from Rose and Noah and a market like Chicago for $30 million less.

This is true, but Melo would have to pay 11% tax to NYS and NYC. So by playing another year with the Knicks, it does not net him too much money. This is the exact reason why Howard left LA.

If you do the math, Fed's tax rate is 40%. So 11% x 5 years is 55%. So technically speaking, by working an extra year in Knicks will net Melo 5% of his 5th years salary.

[moocow007]

for folks who are dying to keep Shump and keep defending him - this season's #'s don't lie:

1. Shump has scored zero 8 times
2. Shump has scored 5 pts or less THIRTY TIMES
3. Shump has scored double digits 13 times

Untouchable! Not meant as a prospect, but as in the meaning of the Indian caste system. This guy is horrible

Just in case there's any confusion...not sure about anyone else...I'm not dying to keep Shumpert. I'd trade anyone, including Carmelo Anthony, Tim Hardaway and Jeremy Tyler if it made sense. Making sense is the most important thing. Shumpert as essentially a throw in the initial rumored Bulls package is stupid (almost as if they were doing us a favor for taking him). Has nothing to do with loving Shumpert.