[2011 Draft Thread Pt 3] - NY To TradeUp? (Update Top Pg 22)

[earthmansurfer]

We should get Andrew Goudelock if we don't get Jimmer with a late 1st/2nd round pick. He can shoot just as well as Jimmer and can be our 3point specialist off the bench.

He really might be the best shooter in the draft. He his 22 or 25 threes in his workout with us yesterday
He is only 6'2" and has problems with his defense, but he is probably a 2nd rounder. We might be going for a more complete player but this guys shooting is at least as good as K Thompson, really, so in that regard he is a steal and Thompson isn't a great defender either, but he has height.

[Falstaffxx]

http://www.1070thefan.com/mg/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10247078

Anyone see this link?

Seems like Brooks totally dominated Klay in this workout. Article says Klay cant finish or play defense.

It's funny how this hasn't been quoted yet. The ole "if it's not what I wanted to hear, it never happened"

Would you like to tell us what was said there? Some of us actually enjoy discussing the draft and aren't just here to win an argument.

[Falstaffxx]

Singleton, Shumpert, and Jenkins are working out for the Knicks today. Singleton could be a fall-back option with good value if the guards we're targeting are off the board. Shumpert and Jenkins sound like possibilities if we add an additional pick or two.

[TrueWarrior]

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... ft-boards/
June 8th
Thompson Shooting Up Draft Boards

Klay Thompson can shoot the rock. As well or better than anybody else in the draft.

And in a draft where every player is a question mark, general managers will gravitate toward what they know works — and a guy that can shoot works in any system. Thompson was one of the best shooters at the NBA Draft Combine and has impressed in team workouts since then, according to multiple reports.

Golden State, with the No. 11 pick and guided in part by the great shooter that was Jerry West, is seriously considering taking Thompson, according to Tim Kawakami at the San Jose Mercury News.

That would be bad news for the Knicks at No. 17, because reports are they really liked him also. As have a number of other teams in the later lottery and teens. Teams that may be out of luck.

Like everyone in this draft Thompson has a lot of question marks. One is defensively. Tied to that is the fact he is not an impressive athlete at the NBA level, so there are questions of how well he could create his own shot.

But he can shoot, and at the end of the day the name of the game is getting the ball through the net.

And for a team like Golden State, which is considering a trade of its two guard Monta Ellis, bringing in someone like Thompson to help fill in that role makes a lot of sense.

But at the rate things are going, with Thompson even fall to No. 11?

Man Klay must be getting so "killed" in his workouts that he just keeps on rising and rising and rising. IDK how hes doing it, getting so killed and all. Maybe he should get killed some more, so wed have a chance at him .

[vinnie_vegas69]

Singleton, Shumpert, and Jenkins are working out for the Knicks today. Singleton could be a fall-back option with good value if the guards we're targeting are off the board. Shumpert and Jenkins sound like possibilities if we add an additional pick or two.

I'd say it's more the other way around - They'll be scoping out other players to see if anyone is worth going out and getting a pick to draft.

[WashWalshBallz]

Not buying the hype of Montiejunas. Reminds me of Illyasova from the Bucks. We already lucked out with one Euro in Gallo. Chances are our next 5 Euro picks will be busts

[Falstaffxx]

Singleton, Shumpert, and Jenkins are working out for the Knicks today. Singleton could be a fall-back option with good value if the guards we're targeting are off the board. Shumpert and Jenkins sound like possibilities if we add an additional pick or two.

I'd say it's more the other way around - They'll be scoping out other players to see if anyone is worth going out and getting a pick to draft.

I don't think so. Singleton is good value at 17. Shumpert and Jenkins aren't.

[TrueWarrior]

I like Singleton, and he makes sense as far as defense goes, but I doubt we pick him cuz hes a 3/4. He wont be able to play with Melo and Amare at the same time which is what we're lookin at with our pick. We need a guy who compliments our stars. A Melo, Singleton, Amare front court might be able to squeak by for small bursts (just like Faried) but its not something that I want to see much.

The reason were trying to draft a guard is pretty obvious, they would be able to play with Melo and Amare without anybody being out of position. Selby can play the 1 or 2. Brooks/Klay play the 2. Jimmer can play the 1, sometimes 2 maybe. Same with Shumpert, Jenkins, Reggie, Darius and all these guys.

We're not necessarily looking for a starter (if it happens it happens) but we want to be able to bring the guy off the bench and fit in with our 2 cornerstones. Most of Singleton's minutes would be with Amare or Melo on the bench I think, and that just takes away from his defensive and overall impact greatly.

Basically if Melo was a SG or Amare was a Center I would be all over Singleton.

One of Jimmer-Klay-Brooks-Selby-Motie will be there at 17 tho.

[Falstaffxx]

I like Singleton, and he makes sense as far as defense goes, but I doubt we pick him cuz hes a 3/4. He wont be able to play with Melo and Amare at the same time which is what we're lookin at with our pick. We need a guy who compliments our stars. A Melo, Singleton, Amare front court might be able to squeak by for small bursts (just like Faried) but its not something that I want to see much.

The reason were trying to draft a guard is pretty obvious, they would be able to play with Melo and Amare without anybody being out of position. Selby can play the 1 or 2. Brooks/Klay play the 2. Jimmer can play the 1, sometimes 2 maybe. Same with Shumpert, Jenkins, Reggie and all these guys.

We're not necessarily looking for a starter (if it happens it happens) but we want to be able to bring the guy off the bench and fit in with our 2 cornerstones. Most of Singleton's minutes would be with Amare or Melo on the bench I think, and that just takes away from his defensive and overall impact greatly.

Basically if Melo was a SG or Amare was a Center I would be all over Singleton.

I agree, but I still think we're a lot more likely to take Singleton at 17 than we are Shumpert or Jenkins. We need a guard, but we're not going to reach too much. I think Singleton is more likely than Faried because he's more versatile. But in any event, I think if we don't move up we'll end up with Brooks, Selby, Motie, or Vucevic because those are the value guys who seem to have a chance to still be on the board and fill a need. I do think Motie fills a need, because I think he could play with Amar'e and Carmelo for solid stretches and complement them offensively while hopefully doing something with his size. Vucevic obviously fills a need and he's been moving up in terms of perceived value.

If we got we got a 2nd-rounder and one of those guards like Jackson, Morris, Shumpert, Jenkins falls, and we take Vucevic at #17, that could fill our needs nicely. Vucevic is the only true center other than Biyombo worth picking in the first round, and there's no way he lasts into the later 20's where we might have a chance to acquire another pick.

I'm going to go ahead and say Big V is my preference 17 among the realistic possibilities.

Next year's rotation:

Billups/Morris
Fields/Douglas
Carmelo/Shawne
Amar'e/Turiaf
Vucevic/JJ3

Then we will Deron or Paul in the offseason.

[TrueWarrior]

Draft Related Questions from Hahns chat:

Mike C:
Chad Ford says the Knicks have keyed on 5 guys... Selby, Brooks, Freddete, Thompson, and Faried. Do you agree? Are there more names to add?
Alan:
The great Chad Ford is never wrong. Ever. Just ask him. I think those are names we've all heard, but I don't know if Brooks is that high on the list. The group, from what I understand, is debating several names and you have to include Chris Singleton (FSU) in that group (if he falls to 17), plus Montiejunas. A lot is going to depend on who is available.

Adam:
Will the Knicks look to move into the late first to pick up a guy such as Jon Leuer?
Alan:
Right now I think the Knicks are more likely to go after second round picks because they are cheaper to buy and second round guys don't come with guaranteed contracts. Leuer hasn't been a name I've heard yet.

Leonard Washington:
If the Knicks draft Marshon Brooks, does that spell the end of Landry Fields?
Alan:
Not at all. Landry is the kind of player you can easily bring off the bench. But that's suggesting that Brooks would be ready to step into the starting lineup and I'm not sure he is.

Euro Prospect:
Is Montiejunas gallo sans back problems?
Alan:
I don't know Montiejunas well enough to label him, but I do know he is a bit more of a big man-type than Gallo, where he'll play inside more.

LJ:
Do you think Fredette and Faried are a bit overvalued based on their college credentials?
Alan:
No, in this draft they are right where they should be. I love Fredette. I think he is a lot like Steph Curry in that he played in college as the obvious marked man every game and still scored at a ridiculously high rate. It shows you he's a player. Physical limitations are more visible at the NBA level, of course, but in the RIGHT situation, Jimmer can be very successful. Can he develop into a Mark Price-type of point guard? Maybe one day. But if you put him on a team that needs him to be an immediate high-impact player, it might be a mistake.
Faried is a great effort, energy guy who I think would be great in Toronto next to Bargnani. Sure, undersized and that's an issue teams picking in the lottery have to worry about, but some guys just find a way. As a late first rounder, he's a good pick. Again, it's all about situation.

Ryan:
Should we expect ending up with three or four picks by the end of Draft Night? Thompson/Selby/Leuer/Tyler sounds like a pretty good haul.
Alan:
Whoa, Ryan, put down the Kool-Aid. You've had plenty. How do you see the Knicks picking up all those picks? They have 17 and I think they might pick up one or two second rounders at best. I don't see them getting all of those players with one first and two seconds. Sorry to kill your buzz.

Steve:
Do you think Jeremy Tyler is similar to Andrew Bynum when Bynum came out and would the Knicks draft Tyler due to their need for a center and low post scorer? Thanks Alan.
Alan:
Tyler is almost like drafting a high school player. He's had little to no coaching -- aside from a short time with former Knicks coach Bob Hill in Japan -- and he's a major, major project. From what I've been told, he looks like a guy you take and stash in the D-League for a bit. Not a great shooter, needs a lot more real game experience to develop. It's a shame because he has physical tools, but that's the problem these days. No one has patience to just let a guy grow. Josh Selby might be a similar situation. In the old days, he'd have stayed three to four years in college and would really develop into a major talent. Instead, he's thrust into the NBA too soon and now has to find his way. Sure, physically ready for the NBA, but there's so much more to the game than physical tools.

Jon:
People keep talking about Faried as a potential Knicks pick but where does he play? He doesn't have the size/girth to guard post players and he can't shoot.
Alan:
I wouldn't put too much time thinking about Faried as the Knicks' choice at No. 17. I think in the right situation he can be an impact player off the bench somewhere, but unless everyone else is gone and he's the best player available, I don't see him as the pick. Is he on the radar? Of course, and I've heard there are some in the Knicks' scouting staff who feel he would be great. But I don't think you take him over some of the other options that will likely be available.
Then again, I said the same thing about Jordan Hill....*facepalm*

Looks like we're not as high on Brooks as the other guards.

It seems Singleton is on our radar as a last resort. I have him as the same thing. If by some strange thing all of our guards are gone, then I would take Singleton over Faried, and get a guard with a later pick like falstaff said.

[can o peas]

http://www.1070thefan.com/mg/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10247078

Anyone see this link?

Seems like Brooks totally dominated Klay in this workout. Article says Klay cant finish or play defense.

It's funny how this hasn't been quoted yet. The ole "if it's not what I wanted to hear, it never happened"

Here, I'll quote it for you:

If the Blue team scored at all…I swear I missed it. Leur bricked every shot he took…Thompson couldn’t finish…and I don’t think I saw Warren take a shot.

No, this workout was all about Marshon Brooks.

I came to this workout to see Thompson (NBAdraft.net has him going to the Pacers at #15 in their latest mock-draft), but I was also intrigued by Brooks who was being dubbed as “Kobe-lite” by ESPN’s Chad Ford. Tuesday, though it was just one workout, Brooks played up to the hype. Check out the video below…

Look, Klay Thompson is still a first-rounder…but I wouldn’t think of drafting him at #15 after that defensive performance. I’m not taking anything away from Marshon (he is THAT good)…but at a certain point you have to say “I’m not letting this man score anymore”…and Thompson couldn’t do it.

Through the half-dozen or so pre-draft workouts that have been held at Conseco so far this offseason…Jimmer and Marshon have been the most impressive. Both are exceptional talents, but bring different skill sets to the table.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I like Singleton, and he makes sense as far as defense goes, but I doubt we pick him cuz hes a 3/4. He wont be able to play with Melo and Amare at the same time which is what we're lookin at with our pick. We need a guy who compliments our stars. A Melo, Singleton, Amare front court might be able to squeak by for small bursts (just like Faried) but its not something that I want to see much.

The reason were trying to draft a guard is pretty obvious, they would be able to play with Melo and Amare without anybody being out of position. Selby can play the 1 or 2. Brooks/Klay play the 2. Jimmer can play the 1, sometimes 2 maybe. Same with Shumpert, Jenkins, Reggie and all these guys.

We're not necessarily looking for a starter (if it happens it happens) but we want to be able to bring the guy off the bench and fit in with our 2 cornerstones. Most of Singleton's minutes would be with Amare or Melo on the bench I think, and that just takes away from his defensive and overall impact greatly.

Basically if Melo was a SG or Amare was a Center I would be all over Singleton.

With D'Antoni, Singleton would basically play the Wilson Chandler role.

But what I like about Singleton is that he is so versatile defensively. He can guard SGs, SFS, PFs....maybe even some PGs or even smaller C's like the Haslems, Chuck Hayes, etc.

When you can guard so many positions, you can find time on the floor since the NBA is all about matchups. And he shot 37% from 3 which is ok. If he can do that or continue to improve on that in the NBA, he could basically be the guy that spots up in the corner to spread the floor for Amare and Melo and basically play the SG role, but also be our defender to Guard the other teams best wing player.

Plus look at what Miami's doing. They are basically going with 3 fowards at all time. If we can't find a good C, we're better off rolling out athletic fowards rather then stiff C's.

I just love Singleton's potential as a 2-way player though.

[TrueWarrior]

With D'Antoni, Singleton would basically play the Wilson Chandler role.

But what I like about Singleton is that he is so versatile defensively. He can guard SGs, SFS, PFs....maybe even some PGs or even smaller C's like the Haslems, Chuck Hayes, etc.

When you can guard so many positions, you can find time on the floor since the NBA is all about matchups. And he shot 37% from 3 which is ok. If he can do that or continue to improve on that in the NBA, he could basically be the guy that spots up in the corner to spread the floor for Amare and Melo and basically play the SG role, but also be our defender to Guard the other teams best wing player.

Plus look at what Miami's doing. They are basically going with 3 fowards at all time. If we can't find a good C, we're better off rolling out athletic fowards rather then stiff C's.

I just love Singleton's potential as a 2-way player though.

I see what you're saying. Id take Singleton over Faried cuz hes more skilled and versatile, and I can def see him in the Chandler role if he develops, but still that lineup has Amare at center again. Its something I think Amare made pretty clear after the season he doesnt want to do anymore. Billups also said we need a big man. Now we can get a big man in FA, but wed still have to go small with Amare at center and Singleton at PF to get the full impact of Singleton.

Again what I could see is taking Singleton at #17 and then taking Reggie or Jenkins with a later pick or something. Hell we might even be able to get Selby later on. Havent heard much hype out of him lately. A Selby/Singleton draft would be killer.

BTW here is Singleton's "Strenths/Weaknesses" Video on DX for those unfamiliar:
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Chr ... kdown-3730

[Kn1cks]

We gotta take Singleton if he is there (he wont be). He's too talented defensively. He'd be our Matrix/Wilson Chandler. We could always slide Stat to C for a few minutes and play Singleton at the 4 with Melo at the 3.

[BrOnXKing1]

With DAntoni, Singleton would be our center.

[defjux21]

With D'Antoni, Singleton would basically play the Wilson Chandler role.

But what I like about Singleton is that he is so versatile defensively. He can guard SGs, SFS, PFs....maybe even some PGs or even smaller C's like the Haslems, Chuck Hayes, etc.

When you can guard so many positions, you can find time on the floor since the NBA is all about matchups. And he shot 37% from 3 which is ok. If he can do that or continue to improve on that in the NBA, he could basically be the guy that spots up in the corner to spread the floor for Amare and Melo and basically play the SG role, but also be our defender to Guard the other teams best wing player.

Plus look at what Miami's doing. They are basically going with 3 fowards at all time. If we can't find a good C, we're better off rolling out athletic fowards rather then stiff C's.

I just love Singleton's potential as a 2-way player though.

Great post, this is what I've been saying for a while.

Singleton is versatile enough to fit anywhere in the frontcourt while having the skills to be a solid perimeter defender. Plus, if he develops the right way, he can be like the Tony Allen of the forward position. Following the trade last year, part of the reason why the Knicks sucked so much defensively was that they never had solid perimeter defenders. Douglas and Fields couldn't cut it, I won't even talk about Jeffries, and forcing Melo to play perimeter defense takes a toll on him as he won't be as effective on offense (where the team really needs him) as a result. Outsourcing the defensive responsibilities to Singleton makes sense if he can adapt to the NBA's style of play and his versatility means D'Antoni won't be as clueless in terms of finding a role for him. Selby and Brooks are a bit more one-dimensional, so if they can't adjust to their roles properly, their talents are wasted.

[ZaQ-]

I'm just going to say that if we take a scoring guard that can't be a facilitator type PG--Jimmer--I'm going to go into a fit of rage that ends with me pillaging and burning a small village. If we take Selby, I'm going to burn another village.

WE NEED SIZE. WE NEED PEOPLE TO PROTECT THE RIM. It's ridiculous to think that Amare can be a 5... maybe when the other four guys are Nash, Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, and Q-Rich all in their primes but we don't have a team like that anymore.

I've seen some support on this board for Tyler and I am firmly in that camp. If not Tyler, then Faried. Not f-ing Jimmer.

[BrOnXKing1]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51H6Li1Nb3o[/youtube]

This is the video from the Pacers workout. Outside of Jimmer, this the guy I want. I want a guy we can go to for scoring when Melo and Stat are on the bench and a guy who can become a good defensive player. With Klay, he would be good knocking down shots when Melo is getting double teamed. But I dont think he can create at the next level, he reminds me of Anthony Marrow of the Nets.

[TrueWarrior]

I'm just going to say that if we take a scoring guard that can't be a facilitator type PG--Jimmer--I'm going to go into a fit of rage that ends with me pillaging and burning a small village. If we take Selby, I'm going to burn another village.

WE NEED SIZE. WE NEED PEOPLE TO PROTECT THE RIM. It's ridiculous to think that Amare can be a 5... maybe when the other four guys are Nash, Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, and Q-Rich all in their primes but we don't have a team like that anymore.

I've seen some support on this board for Tyler and I am firmly in that camp. If not Tyler, then Faried. Not f-ing Jimmer.

The last thing we should do is reach on size just because we need size. We need a SG too. We need a PG for when Billups leaves and if CP3/Deron dont come. We need assets. We need TALENT. Jeremy Tyler is years away from contributing, just like Lucas Nogueira. We cant afford to sit around and hope they develop in 3 years. With a 2nd pick Id be down, but not at #17.

We gotta take Singleton if he is there (he wont be). He's too talented defensively. He'd be our Matrix/Wilson Chandler. We could always slide Stat to C for a few minutes and play Singleton at the 4 with Melo at the 3.

Id take Markieff over Singleton if we're going to be playing Amare at center. Kieff is the better rebounder, shooter, finisher, has a 4 inch standing reach advantage, and is just as good if not better post defender. Singleton beats Markieff on perimeter defense and is a better athlete, but Markieff beats him pretty much everywhere else.

[Falstaffxx]

I think the poll would be better if it focused solely on who to pick if we stay at 17 and Jimmer and Klay are off the board. I'd include the following in the poll:

Brooks
Selby
Motie
Vucevic
Singleton
Faried
edit: Markieff too

I think those are all guys that we could realistically pick at 17 if we stay there and other guys we're targeting are off the board. Faried sneaks into consideration because of his outstanding rebounding. We are not going to pick Shumpert, Morris, Lee or Jenkins at 17 and we're not going to take Markieff Morris because he's a pure PF and he's not the super rebounder that Faried is. I think that's the most realistic and interesting poll. I can't see any other guards we'd consider at 17 other than Jimmer or Klay.

Or, since True Warrior is advocating Markieff over Singleton in the post above, why not include him too,