Knicks-Rockets PG: Who didn't see this coming?

[BBALLER4FR]

common sense says to not leave above average 3pt shooters WIDE THE **** OPEN.
this was repeatedly done.
even if theyre practicing against the triangle in practice, do they not practice closing out on WIDE OPEN SHOOTERS?
jesus christ its like slamming your head into the wall

Again, I don't think Phil, Hornacek or Rambis care about defense. At least 2 of them are more concerned about getting these guys to master the triangle. Otherwise why are we defending against it. We can't expect these guys to have any defensive understanding when they aren't practicing against real offensive sets. It goes to show why we are at a disadvantage most nights. We don't run the offense that has been known to pick us apart and we don't even practice to prevent it. It's like the Twilight Zone.

EDIT: It's like 2 guys playing NBA 2k but one guy believes he's playing Pac Man while insisting that he's gonna win if he just sticks to the plan.

[Sark]

Anyone else not ready to give up on this team after 4 games?

This team was doo-doo even before these 4 games. It's just poorly constructed, with no players that can effectively create shots for others.

[Adelheid]

We are practicing to defend...ourselves? What gives Phil?

[BBALLER4FR]

We are practicing to defend...ourselves? What gives Phil?

It's worked though. Phil is a master. ZEN!

[ctorres]

from Begley...Jeff is officially starting to look suspect

This is not Jeff bro, this is all Phil Jackson

You really think Jeff wants to do that?

This...This.....Thisss.

The coaches have already told the players how to defend the opposing team. The coaches have drawn up the other teams' plays on a white board. The coaches have even shown video tape to the players showing how the opposing team plays.

Why should the coaches have to re-create and choreograph in-game situations during practices just to accommadate the players who aren't paying attention when the coaches speak to them? Seems like we have a team full of entitled millenials who don't listen because they're too busy playing on their smart phones. These millenials expect too much coddling.

Heck, if the players ran the triangle the way they're supposed to, the defense would not even be a real concern. It's the players' fault and theirs ALONE that the Knicks have lost 3 of their first 4 games this seasons.

Players get paid to play the game and follow the coaches' instructions. Players are not being paid to instruct coaches on how to coach, or talk about how their past coaches (like Thibodeau) used to do things.


[/sarcastic phil jackson logic]

[13ringsruling]

common sense says to not leave above average 3pt shooters WIDE THE **** OPEN.
this was repeatedly done.
even if theyre practicing against the triangle in practice, do they not practice closing out on WIDE OPEN SHOOTERS?
jesus christ its like slamming your head into the wall

Again, I don't think Phil, Hornacek or Rambis care about defense. At least 2 of them are more concerned about getting these guys to master the triangle. Otherwise why are we defending against it. We can't expect these guys to have any defensive understanding when they aren't practicing against real offensive sets. It goes to show why we are at a disadvantage most nights. We don't run the offense that has been known to pick us apart and we don't even practice to prevent it. It's like the Twilight Zone.

my problem with this argument is that at the end of the day, they're all professional nba players. i cannot imagine that they have no defensive understanding. noah should be up in kp's face telling him to stay at home on ryan anderson. why is melo switching onto harden then switching off in the middle of harden taking a shot? it's absurd. it IS like the twilight zone.

[BBALLER4FR]

Oh and someone might want to start a Courtney Lee Appreciation Thread. He had to have jumped rank telling reporters that.

[Sark]

Knicks behind Nets in standings

[BBALLER4FR]

common sense says to not leave above average 3pt shooters WIDE THE **** OPEN.
this was repeatedly done.
even if theyre practicing against the triangle in practice, do they not practice closing out on WIDE OPEN SHOOTERS?
jesus christ its like slamming your head into the wall

Again, I don't think Phil, Hornacek or Rambis care about defense. At least 2 of them are more concerned about getting these guys to master the triangle. Otherwise why are we defending against it. We can't expect these guys to have any defensive understanding when they aren't practicing against real offensive sets. It goes to show why we are at a disadvantage most nights. We don't run the offense that has been known to pick us apart and we don't even practice to prevent it. It's like the Twilight Zone.

my problem with this argument is that at the end of the day, they're all professional nba players. i cannot imagine that they have no defensive understanding. noah should be up in kp's face telling him to stay at home on ryan anderson. why is melo switching onto harden then switching off in the middle of harden taking a shot? it's absurd. it IS like the twilight zone.

Courtney Lee was known as a good defender and he's calling shenanigans. I think you are defending the indefensible on this one.

Bottom line -

1) KP shouldn't be guarding the perimeter ESPECIALLY if the opponent is the Houston Rockets!
2) We need to be practicing defending these potent offenses the league runs.
3) We need to be implementing these potent offenses the league runs.

[13ringsruling]

Again, I don't think Phil, Hornacek or Rambis care about defense. At least 2 of them are more concerned about getting these guys to master the triangle. Otherwise why are we defending against it. We can't expect these guys to have any defensive understanding when they aren't practicing against real offensive sets. It goes to show why we are at a disadvantage most nights. We don't run the offense that has been known to pick us apart and we don't even practice to prevent it. It's like the Twilight Zone.

my problem with this argument is that at the end of the day, they're all professional nba players. i cannot imagine that they have no defensive understanding. noah should be up in kp's face telling him to stay at home on ryan anderson. why is melo switching onto harden then switching off in the middle of harden taking a shot? it's absurd. it IS like the twilight zone.

Courtney Lee was known as a good defender and he's calling shenanigans. I think you are defending the indefensible on this one.

Bottom line -

1) KP shouldn't be guarding the perimeter ESPECIALLY if the opponent is the Houston Rockets!
2) We need to be practicing defending these potent offenses the league runs.
3) We need to be implementing these potent offenses the league runs.

listen, i don't disagree with any of those points. in fact, i agree with all of them.

i don't think the triangle in itself needs to go. i think it needs to be modernized and streamlined. as an offense to me it has more-or-less everything you would want. of course it needs some tweaks to get more 3pt shots than originally designed, and it needs to be ran more uptempo instead of plodding in today's nba. but the split actions, the cuts, the motion, the dribble handoffs, the viability to actually add wrinkles to it (you can very easily run horns out of the base triangle alignment. just have the strong-side corner cut to the opposite side and the strong-side wing drop to the corner once the ball gets up top.) the only thing it really doesnt have is a strong prevalence of repeated PNR and even that could be put in quite easily tbh.

i dont disagree that kp shouldn't be guarding the perimeter. but that was his assignment. why is he leaving his assignment, known as one of the better 3pt shooting bigs, wide open, repeatedly?

that's the crux of my argument. like common sense went out the window all of a sudden. doesn't matter what offense they're practicing against in practice or what offense they're running. basic defensive principles don't just fall out of their heads. courtney lee has played in the league for how many years? did he forget to close out all of a sudden? i watched a possession where melo picked up harden, switched with baker, then switched back onto harden....only to call for baker to switch again AS HARDEN WAS SHOOTING. WHY? like .....what?

of course lee is there and knows better than you or i what they should be doing. but **** dude, these guys have all been playing for a number of years. noah himself looked flat last night and pretty flat tonight. but noah or lee should be up in everyones grill. ya know?

[Dr. Detfink]

I agree with all your points except for point number 2. Porzingis should be a center. He is 7'2". A 7'2" guy should not be trying to guard all these smaller, quicker PF that the league is pumping out these days. I think it was pretty obvious Hornacek was using him as a PF, exactly like a Ryan Anderson. I don't care how skinny he is, he is 7'2" and especially with today's officiating where they don't allow guys to continue to bump or extend the arms inside, Porzingis should be effective with his quick feet and soft touch. He can still draw the opposition to the 3 point line as a center which is a much bigger mismatch than against a PF.

He's also going to be much more effective affecting shots in the paint rather than on the perimeter. He's the best rebounder and shot blocker this team has by far and his defensive impact would be felt much more often as a center.

The problem is the Knicks signed Noah so they wouldn't be able to abuse the opposition with Porzingis as a 5. As an outsider looking in, that is the biggest mistake the team has made. They need to pair him up with guys like Millsap, Favors, Griffin, Aldridge, Pau, Randolph etc. that can help him rebound inside but is an offensive threat.

I just don't know. At the 5, Porzingis looks like Shawn Bradley because you can't run up and down the court if you are slender and taking elbows, foot stomps all night long. He's not that kind of player. He looks completely scared and uncomfortable out there.

It's his speed and range which allows him to handle the ball from the perimeter and either take the shot or drive to the basket. Not a 5 who has to play down inside and muscle, fight, claw for rebounds and put backs.

This kid plays well within a half court system with ball movement. Not that full court B.S. Phoenix does then falls apart in the playoffs EVERY time.

[Knicksfan20]

Rose is tunneling and looking to score rather then facilitate for his teammates. If Rose played like an actual PG , maybe our offense would look better and the guys around him (Melo and KP) would be scoring more on better %. But instead he is forcing things and looking off his teammates... Mayve he feels he has something to prove, maybe its the contract year or maybe he is just a selfish player. But if we want to win...He needs to be a PG and not a score first guard.

KP hasn't been great but hasn't been terrible. I feel like Rose should be getting him easier looks and has missed him wide open more times then I can count. Why is Noah our our PG?

Frustrating to see a team with so much talent underperform. I blame the Coaches and Phil. We shouldn't look this bad. Even the Grizzlies game... we almost let that game slip away because of poor decisions and substitutions.

Wake up Phil... STOP FORCING THE TRIANGLE DOWN OUR FKING THROATS!!!!

[prophet_of_rage]

Hmmm ... reading this fan base reacting against Phil. I'm sure there's a word for that feeling ... can't put my finger on it ....


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[Adelheid]

Hmmm ... reading this fan base reacting against Phil. I'm sure there's a word for that feeling ... can't put my finger on it ....


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

Totally reasonable to feel that way when the players are showing signs of resentment.

[Hauler]

If we're are going to be garbage at putting the ball in the hoop then man up and get down to business on the defensive end. Just do it. No reason the effort isn't being put forth on the defensive end to get the stops and get out and run in transition. We have the tools to do it, but we actually need to get it done.

[rajajackal]

start jennings

[Luv those Knicks]

I saw it coming and said so in the off-season. The talent added was too old and not good enough. I was fine with Lee & Rose on his 1 year contract. "Meh" on Thomas and a hard no on Noah. Should have taken a 25 win season, signed as many young, cheap players as they could, gotten a high draft pick and had more money to spend next year. This "win every year" nonsense is, well, nonsense. Teams can't do that with a salary cap unless they happen to have a Lebron on the roster. As it is, they have a 35 win season coming, maybe even 30 wins and less cap space. Thanks Phil.

The only good news in having a lousy season is we still have our draft pick this time.

Exactly what I said 2 months ago.

[hood30]

Rose is not a point guard, he's a shooting guard..It's time to let him be the 6th-man off the bench and he can shoot as much as he wants with the second unit..Than start Jennings...I'm not a big Jennings fan, but he's clearly a more willing passer than Rose and would fit the starting-line up better than Rose, specially with Portzingis needing a passer to get him the ball.

Rose can't shoot and he doesn't set up anyone but himself..He's simply a slasher and can only attack the rim in which he's still good at...Let him do that coming off the bench

[thelastpope]

2 guys we could have got over Rose

Rose PER 15.2

Delly PER 17.2

Lin PER 22.4

Rose Ast% 15.0

Delly ast% 29.2

Lin ast% 39.2

Rose usg 27.5

Delly usg 15.0

Lin usg 25.2

Not even going to do defensive metrics because it's not even fair, because Rose is that bad (lol Jennings is worse)

Rose = McGrady on the Knicks

Tank time

[Jalen Bluntson]

We suck again.