The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ)

[HarthorneWingo]

According to Macri:

Randle’s All-Star and playoff bonuses get counted when calculating his extension. So, instead of 4 years/$106M it’s 4 years/$116M.

That doesn’t mean we have to give it to him. Show some constraint.

I think it’s still a very team friendly deal. I think that Julius is only going to want to sign a 2-year extension.

[GONYK]

According to Macri:

Randle’s All-Star and playoff bonuses get counted when calculating his extension. So, instead of 4 years/$106M it’s 4 years/$116M.

That doesn’t mean we have to give it to him. Show some constraint.

I think it’s still a very team friendly deal. I think that Julius is only going to want to sign a 2-year extension.

If Randle accepts that extension, you sign him.

The probability that he won't tells you all that you need to know about the value of that contract.

[mpharris36]

That doesn’t mean we have to give it to him. Show some constraint.

I think it’s still a very team friendly deal. I think that Julius is only going to want to sign a 2-year extension.

If Randle accepts that extension, you sign him.

The probability that he won't tells you all that you need to know about the value of that contract.

which has to give you a little bit of second thought in terms of investing in him that much. If we are talking north of the Gordon Hayward contract 4 years 120 MMM that would give me some pause especially off his playoff performance. I don't see how it couldn't.

Randle may very well fancy himself as a max player (30% of the cap in 2022-23 season which roughly starts around 35 MM based on the projections)...if thats the case you have to consider all options including trades this offseason.

[GONYK]

I think it’s still a very team friendly deal. I think that Julius is only going to want to sign a 2-year extension.

If Randle accepts that extension, you sign him.

The probability that he won't tells you all that you need to know about the value of that contract.

which has to give you a little bit of second thought in terms of investing in him that much. If we are talking north of the Gordon Hayward contract 4 years 120 MMM that would give me some pause especially off his playoff performance. I don't see how it couldn't.

Randle may very well fancy himself as a max player (30% of the cap in 2022-23 season which roughly starts around 35 MM based on the projections)...if thats the case you have to consider all options including trades this offseason.

Yea, I'm not SuperMAXing Julius Randle.

[mpharris36]

If Randle accepts that extension, you sign him.

The probability that he won't tells you all that you need to know about the value of that contract.

which has to give you a little bit of second thought in terms of investing in him that much. If we are talking north of the Gordon Hayward contract 4 years 120 MMM that would give me some pause especially off his playoff performance. I don't see how it couldn't.

Randle may very well fancy himself as a max player (30% of the cap in 2022-23 season which roughly starts around 35 MM based on the projections)...if thats the case you have to consider all options including trades this offseason.

Yea, I'm not SuperMAXing Julius Randle.

Agreed.

So you offering him that max extension as I would. If he doesn't accept that you have to seriously consider trading him because him being in limbo all year will be no good. The knicks are taking a lot of risk by offering him that after one huge season. Randle would be taking a bit of risk because if he duplicated this year he probably would be losing some money.

Never the less, randle isn't some can't miss out player so the knicks can't go above there means to accommodate him like the true supermax guys you can.

[HarthorneWingo]

If Randle accepts that extension, you sign him.

The probability that he won't tells you all that you need to know about the value of that contract.

which has to give you a little bit of second thought in terms of investing in him that much. If we are talking north of the Gordon Hayward contract 4 years 120 MMM that would give me some pause especially off his playoff performance. I don't see how it couldn't.

Randle may very well fancy himself as a max player (30% of the cap in 2022-23 season which roughly starts around 35 MM based on the projections)...if thats the case you have to consider all options including trades this offseason.

Yea, I'm not SuperMAXing Julius Randle.

That decision, however, won’t come for at least 3 more years though. This gives us plenty of time to evaluate and trade him, if we deem necessary.

[mpharris36]

which has to give you a little bit of second thought in terms of investing in him that much. If we are talking north of the Gordon Hayward contract 4 years 120 MMM that would give me some pause especially off his playoff performance. I don't see how it couldn't.

Randle may very well fancy himself as a max player (30% of the cap in 2022-23 season which roughly starts around 35 MM based on the projections)...if thats the case you have to consider all options including trades this offseason.

Yea, I'm not SuperMAXing Julius Randle.

That decision, however, won’t come for at least 3 more years though. This gives us plenty of time to evaluate and trade him, if we deem necessary.

that decision could come as early as next offseason

[HarthorneWingo]

Yea, I'm not SuperMAXing Julius Randle.

That decision, however, won’t come for at least 3 more years though. This gives us plenty of time to evaluate and trade him, if we deem necessary.

that decision could come as early as next offseason

We’re not letting Randle just walk after next season. At the minimum we’re signing him to the 2-year extension, which is team-friendly and allows us to trade him during that contract. If we don’t sign him to an extension, then we just lose him without getting anything back in return.

[mpharris36]

That decision, however, won’t come for at least 3 more years though. This gives us plenty of time to evaluate and trade him, if we deem necessary.

that decision could come as early as next offseason

We’re not letting Randle just walk after next season. At the minimum we’re signing him to the 2-year extension, which is team-friendly and allows us to trade him during that contract. If we don’t sign him to an extension, then we just lose him without getting anything back in return.

What if Randle doesn't want to sign an extension? It takes two to tango.

[whocares1]

which has to give you a little bit of second thought in terms of investing in him that much. If we are talking north of the Gordon Hayward contract 4 years 120 MMM that would give me some pause especially off his playoff performance. I don't see how it couldn't.

Randle may very well fancy himself as a max player (30% of the cap in 2022-23 season which roughly starts around 35 MM based on the projections)...if thats the case you have to consider all options including trades this offseason.

Yea, I'm not SuperMAXing Julius Randle.

Agreed.

So you offering him that max extension as I would. If he doesn't accept that you have to seriously consider trading him because him being in limbo all year will be no good. The knicks are taking a lot of risk by offering him that after one huge season. Randle would be taking a bit of risk because if he duplicated this year he probably would be losing some money.

Never the less, randle isn't some can't miss out player so the knicks can't go above there means to accommodate him like the true supermax guys you can.

So did you come to this conclusion about Randle after 5 games in the playoffs or the year before when we weren’t winning games because of his play? Because he built a lot of believers this season and all of a sudden he’s “clearly not a number one”.

[mpharris36]

Yea, I'm not SuperMAXing Julius Randle.

Agreed.

So you offering him that max extension as I would. If he doesn't accept that you have to seriously consider trading him because him being in limbo all year will be no good. The knicks are taking a lot of risk by offering him that after one huge season. Randle would be taking a bit of risk because if he duplicated this year he probably would be losing some money.

Never the less, randle isn't some can't miss out player so the knicks can't go above there means to accommodate him like the true supermax guys you can.

So did you come to this conclusion about Randle after 5 games in the playoffs or the year before when we weren’t winning games because of his play? Because he built a lot of believers this season and all of a sudden he’s “clearly not a number one”.

Being a #1 and being a legit #1 to lead a team to where we eventually want to go is totally different thing.

I don't think his greatest supporters ever thought he was a number 1 to lead a contender. To get to the playoffs sure he had an amazing regular season. The playoffs are a different animal where you have to do a lot of self creation which proved a bit too much for Randle. He had a horrendous post season. Doesn't mean I would give up on him...but I think its pretty safe bet he shoouldn't be your #1 option.

[HarthorneWingo]

that decision could come as early as next offseason

We’re not letting Randle just walk after next season. At the minimum we’re signing him to the 2-year extension, which is team-friendly and allows us to trade him during that contract. If we don’t sign him to an extension, then we just lose him without getting anything back in return.

What if Randle doesn't want to sign an extension? It takes two to tango.

[Oscirus]

According to Macri:

Randle’s All-Star and playoff bonuses get counted when calculating his extension. So, instead of 4 years/$106M it’s 4 years/$116M.

Does this in any way impact our cap space this year? My assumption is no & we could do it after we spend all our space, but I haven't looked into it

if they reject the option and extend him, yes, if its an extension after this year, no

[HarthorneWingo]

Just so my feeble mind is clear, Randle IS coming back next season to play for the Knicks. Riiiiight?

[Oscirus]

Just so my feeble mind is clear, Randle IS coming back next season to play for the Knicks. Riiiiight?

randle and probably rose are the only ones guaranteed to come back

[Nazrmohamed]

I feel like people were so happy with the statistical leap that Randle took that they weren't actually watching him on a play to play basis. There's no doubt that he had a phenomenal regular season where he put up some really nice numbers. There's also no doubt that even in his good games, everything other than a spot up looks extremely labored and difficult. He doesn't make anything look easy on offense. Even when he's hot, any possession where he's being defended with any intensity looks difficult. He doesn't have the skill or the athleticism to score the ball easily when teams are really committed to stopping him on every possession which is precisely what we saw play out against Atlanta. Most of those possessions end with an awkward step back jumper that he doesn't have the legs to hit with regularity. The eye test tells you that this just isn't a guy you can max out without setting your franchise back. If we get a good offer for him, we should take it unless a star becomes available who wants him specifically as their teammate.

In one post season against one team, that knew we had no other options they found a gamelan to stop Julius. It sucks, I'm sure Julius feels the same way but what I can't stand is how it defines everything about him. The whole season, his whole career.

None of us know who Julius is based on one series. I mean, what do we know about Tatum after he lost in the first round. What do we know about Jimmie Butler based off this one series. Literally only Julius has been exposed by a single series.

Do you think there's enough surrounding help?
Do you feel you have an adequate PG.?

If you think everything except Julius is just fine then let's just waive him right now and start winning titles. It's just crazy. People do realize that the Nets have 3 separate guys who are maxed out. Most teams have 2 guys who are maxed out. On the best teams thier 3rd best player is maxed out. Just max him out. So? He's not a true number 1 option and even that is arguable because again what you're demanding is what knick fans always demand. I wanna judge my single supposed stars value in comparison to other stars on teams way more stacked then ours.

We spend so much time attempting to find that number one star, hating on someone for failing to be that guy, dumping him, starting from scratch........we don't even keep number 2 stars. What's the big deal if your number 2 is on your roster first. That's like the Heat not signing Bosh because he isn't Lebron. No they signed Bosh and 6 days later signed Lebron. You guys have this ridiculous mathematical order of events that must happen.

My feeling is that Julius performance only made it more likely that he'd si g n the very reasonable extention we will lay out before him. If he doesn't you see what he can do and if he leaves then we sign other talent. It's just that simple. You could max Julius and STILL not build around him if that's the goal. Not all maxes are the same and his is very reasonable.

Sometimes I think we'd be better off having done worse and getting the 8th seed and getting swept. In alot of ways fans mightve been more understanding. In fact the following yr we could've upgraded to the 4rth seed (next yr) and everybody would've spoken of progress. Just relax

What's funny is that you don't want to judge him based on a postseason that mirrored the majority of his career but you're good with thinking he's a solution based on what is so far a 72 game outlier that reverted to type the moment real pressure was on. If you could get out of your feelings then maybe you would realize that it's not hating or personal to appraise someone's god awful performance in the context of what it means for building around them going forward. I don't want to see anyone struggle. I want to see this franchise be successful. The name on the front means more to me than the name on the back. I want to see this team build around players who can bring us a championship. Guys who crumble the way Randle did and for whom the game looks hard even when they're playing well are not guys who are going to bring us a championship, especially if they're sucking up cap space better used on those who can. Instead of actually keeping your response to what I said about Randle now you make some strawmen like I said the rest of the roster was perfect when I damn sure didn't. That's emotional. It's not logical. I said that this guy doesn't pass the eye test as someone you can count on to lead a team to the promised land. You don't just max someone out for the f*ck of it. That's how you get stuck with bad contracts that impede you from bringing in true franchise altering talent. You want to just throw the bag at this guy off the back of one of the worst playoff performances by a "star" in history under the misguided assumption that other stars will just turn up to make that ok? Because they've been turning up in droves to play for us up until now, right? Randle was the damn consolation prize because they haven't. C'mon man.

Part of the solution, not THE solution and the cost for his part is a max far below the max you'd have to pay for the ideal player you wish you had instead. The guy that supports that guy is getting paid probably more than Julius extension calls for him to be signed for. And that's the point I'm trying to make.

Ok so he proved you can't build an team filled with worse players than him and expect to win. Who actually thought that. But a failed 1 is still a damn good 2 and his max extension is still very good for a 2. I mean, super teams have hurt this argument admittedly. For chrissakes the Nets have 3 number 1s on the same team. I have no counter for that. But who tf does? (Injuries withstanding but that's just messed up)

So again, if the argument is that he prevents this and that, he prevents nothing. We could add a second max this summer and keep almost the whole team had it not been for a weak FA this yr.

[8516knicks]

It takes something MORE to be a # 1 option. On SF, Curry was #1, Durant #2. On Cleveland, LeBron was #1, Irving #2. On OKC, which didn’t win a shlp, Harden was #3 to Westbrook and Durant. Now the Nets paid all that money and only ONE is playing when it counts!

[Esq-4]

Just so my feeble mind is clear, Randle IS coming back next season to play for the Knicks. Riiiiight?

randle and probably rose are the only ones guaranteed to come back

Gibson?

[HarthorneWingo]

Just so my feeble mind is clear, Randle IS coming back next season to play for the Knicks. Riiiiight?

randle and probably rose are the only ones guaranteed to come back

Gibson?

Pelle has a partially guaranteed contract and Knox is under contract.

Edit: never mind. It’s non-guaranteed for next next. Still, I would like to bring him back.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/norvel-pelle-27836/

[Oscirus]

Just so my feeble mind is clear, Randle IS coming back next season to play for the Knicks. Riiiiight?

randle and probably rose are the only ones guaranteed to come back

Gibson?

I imagine that gibsons not that far from retiring