PG - oh no, we suck again

[god shammgod]

i don't think there's a lineup change that is gonna work. there's too many problems. both mitch & noel are fighting through injuries and not at 100 percent. rj & randle both are struggling a lot offensively and defensively. especially with their outside shot which makes us a lot easier to defend. fournier has been as advertised defensively and inconsistent on offense. the bench guys bring energy but they only have to play 15-20 minutes a night so it's easier to go hard and they're doing it against inferior competition. maybe this will all sort itself out in another month or 2 but with the east the way it is, it'll probably be too late.

[Chanel Bomber]

There's the problem, now people are pointing fingers for specific moves like the Kemba signing, but it's the combination of numerous mistakes all-around that led us to this.

It goes from extending Randle, to trusting RJ as a core piece, to signing Fournier, to not making a move for a PG until washed Kemba became available because no one wanted him...

Our entire starting line-up is rotten.

The notion that Randle's a #1 or #2 is laughable. He's a 6th man or an average starter on a good team that doesn't rely entirely on its bench. RJ is not an NBA starter. Kemba is washed. Fournier is a defensive liability and a bench player on a good team.

This all shows the lack of vision from Leon Rose. He's neither a basketball savant nor an analytics expert - he's a guy who knows people. That's it. This franchise has no sense of direction whatsoever.

When you start looking at coaches & players you’re already falling into the trap.

Who hired the coach?

Who is in charge of the players being on the roster?

Destroy the root not the tree branch.

Also.

Spoiler:

I hate you allllllllllllllll

Exactly.

At the end of the day, the people who put together the product are responsible.

You can't blame the players for not being better than who they are.

The coach has more responsibility than the players (re: Elfraudgate), but even he/she's picked by a front office.

Our criticism or frustration should solely be directed towards the Phil Jacksons, the Steve Mills, the Scott Perrys, the Leon Roses of the world. They are the ones who overrate these players, who can't evaluate talent and who can't put a coherent roster together. Wait, they too were hired by someone, right?

[Chanel Bomber]

I swear I could beach about the Knicks all day.

So many layers.

So many angles.

[K_ick_God]

i don't think there's a lineup change that is gonna work. there's too many problems. both mitch & noel are fighting through injuries and not at 100 percent. rj & randle both are struggling a lot offensively and defensively. especially with their outside shot which makes us a lot easier to defend. fournier has been as advertised defensively and inconsistent on offense. the bench guys bring energy but they only have to play 15-20 minutes a night so it's easier to go hard and they're doing it against inferior competition. maybe this will all sort itself out in another month or 2 but with the east they way it is, it'll probably be too late.

Yeah the bottom line is too many problems. Too many bit actors in lead roles. All the same stuff that plagues bad teams, nothing new under the sun here.

[Capn'O]

i don't think there's a lineup change that is gonna work. there's too many problems. both mitch & noel are fighting through injuries and not at 100 percent. rj & randle both are struggling a lot offensively and defensively. especially with their outside shot which makes us a lot easier to defend. fournier has been as advertised defensively and inconsistent on offense. the bench guys bring energy but they only have to play 15-20 minutes a night so it's easier to go hard and they're doing it against inferior competition. maybe this will all sort itself out in another month or 2 but with the east they way it is, it'll probably be too late.

Randle's struggles with his 3-ball are definitely worth mentioning. During our run last year both players shot 40%+. A big part of it is they're just not hitting shots that they were hitting last year. They're still getting the looks.

[god shammgod]

i don't think there's a lineup change that is gonna work. there's too many problems. both mitch & noel are fighting through injuries and not at 100 percent. rj & randle both are struggling a lot offensively and defensively. especially with their outside shot which makes us a lot easier to defend. fournier has been as advertised defensively and inconsistent on offense. the bench guys bring energy but they only have to play 15-20 minutes a night so it's easier to go hard and they're doing it against inferior competition. maybe this will all sort itself out in another month or 2 but with the east they way it is, it'll probably be too late.

Yeah the bottom line is too many problems. Too many bit actors in lead roles. All the same stuff that plagues bad teams, nothing new under the sun here.

and if they put it all together, they'd lose in the 1st round anyway. it's probably a blessing that they don't, as doing so will only prolong this. as long as the next thing they do isn't something stupid.

[Capn'O]

There's the problem, now people are pointing fingers for specific moves like the Kemba signing, but it's the combination of numerous mistakes all-around that led us to this.

It goes from extending Randle, to trusting RJ as a core piece, to signing Fournier, to not making a move for a PG until washed Kemba became available because no one wanted him...

Our entire starting line-up is rotten.

The notion that Randle's a #1 or #2 is laughable. He's a 6th man or an average starter on a good team that doesn't rely entirely on its bench. RJ is not an NBA starter. Kemba is washed. Fournier is a defensive liability and a bench player on a good team.

This all shows the lack of vision from Leon Rose. He's neither a basketball savant nor an analytics expert - he's a guy who knows people. That's it. This franchise has no sense of direction whatsoever.

When you start looking at coaches & players you’re already falling into the trap.

Who hired the coach?

Who is in charge of the players being on the roster?

Destroy the root not the tree branch.

Also.

Spoiler:

I hate you allllllllllllllll

And who keeps hiring these executives?

I think this group has done well given the restraints. Turning a bad team into a good one without young player development is like those authors in the 20th century who would write books without using the letter e and ****.

[aq_ua]

We have two key players that shot over 40% from three last season and are shooting low 30s this season.

Was Thibs sending a message just to RJ, or a thinly veiled shot to a more proud veteran as well?

Or just answering a question about RJ who has been out sick not being able to get his work in as he did usually. The first part ofnthe asnwer talked about RJ going through this lasy year and Thibs wasn't worried.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Yeah, I heard the post practice Thibs comments and he walked a lot of that stuff back (or clarified, whateva). Main point is, it’s true both RJ and Randle have not shot the ball well this year, and we’re not going to be a good team until they figure it out. Whether it be getting more reps in the gym or meditating, who knows, but Thibs felt compelled to be specific initially and that certainly sounded like a message being sent, and since we need both those guys shooting better, felt like a broader message than just to RJ - who to your point has had the excuse of being sick, so why just call him out?

[Capn'O]

i don't think there's a lineup change that is gonna work. there's too many problems. both mitch & noel are fighting through injuries and not at 100 percent. rj & randle both are struggling a lot offensively and defensively. especially with their outside shot which makes us a lot easier to defend. fournier has been as advertised defensively and inconsistent on offense. the bench guys bring energy but they only have to play 15-20 minutes a night so it's easier to go hard and they're doing it against inferior competition. maybe this will all sort itself out in another month or 2 but with the east they way it is, it'll probably be too late.

Yeah the bottom line is too many problems. Too many bit actors in lead roles. All the same stuff that plagues bad teams, nothing new under the sun here.

and if they put it all together, they'd lose in the 1st round anyway. it's probably a blessing that they don't, as doing so will only prolong this. as long as the next thing they do isn't something stupid.

It's basically guaranteed.

[nedleeds]

Read on Twitter

And so it begins. It sounds like someone is throwing the analytics department under the bus. What about the rest of the signings? They actually seem like just as big of a problem if not worse.

the on/off splits for Randle are scary bad

on the court:

OFF Rating: 107.4
DEF Rating: 112.2
NET Rating: -4.7

off the court:

OFF Rating: 118.1
DEF Rating: 103.3
NET Rating: +14.7

NET difference between on and off the court Randles impact is nearly -20pts (19.5 to be exact ) per 100 possessions

Do have any FO person with a 2nd grade analytics background?

[nedleeds]

i don't think there's a lineup change that is gonna work. there's too many problems. both mitch & noel are fighting through injuries and not at 100 percent. rj & randle both are struggling a lot offensively and defensively. especially with their outside shot which makes us a lot easier to defend. fournier has been as advertised defensively and inconsistent on offense. the bench guys bring energy but they only have to play 15-20 minutes a night so it's easier to go hard and they're doing it against inferior competition. maybe this will all sort itself out in another month or 2 but with the east they way it is, it'll probably be too late.

Randle's struggles with his 3-ball are definitely worth mentioning. During our run last year both players shot 40%+. A big part of it is they're just not hitting shots that they were hitting last year. They're still getting the looks.

It's almost like last year in empty arenas, against teams ravaged with covid while we suffered nearly no downtime was the outlier season in his career numbers.

[god shammgod]

i don't think they're doing well. they're as unimaginative as could be. they might be safer than some other guys we've had but it has led them to a similar place. not looking for cheaper, younger alternatives to the vets they re-signed is almost gross negligence. "did pretty well last year, let's just bring almost everyone back on multi-year deals." is there nobody in-house with an eye on guys around the league who might be undervalued/relatively youngish ? did they do the work to figure it out ?

[Capn'O]

i don't think they're doing well. they're as unimaginative as could be. they might be safer than some other guys we've had but it has led them to a similar place. not looking for cheaper, younger alternatives to the vets they re-signed is almost gross negligence. "did pretty well last year, let's just bring almost everyone back on multi-year deals." is there nobody in-house with an eye on guys around the league who might be undervalued/relatively youngish ? did they do the work to figure it out ?

I've been hollering about those guys from the mountain for years and they won't hire me

So I just bring them to my BAF team

Holmes
Korkmaz
Melton
THT
Vanderbilt
Trent

All relative bargains. All recent Capn'O recommendations. All BAF'd by me. You wonder why I like that ****.

[Jimmit79]

i don't think there's a lineup change that is gonna work. there's too many problems. both mitch & noel are fighting through injuries and not at 100 percent. rj & randle both are struggling a lot offensively and defensively. especially with their outside shot which makes us a lot easier to defend. fournier has been as advertised defensively and inconsistent on offense. the bench guys bring energy but they only have to play 15-20 minutes a night so it's easier to go hard and they're doing it against inferior competition. maybe this will all sort itself out in another month or 2 but with the east the way it is, it'll probably be too late.

Right now Randle and a Center just kills spacing both Obi and Randle have stunk from downtown let's not even talk about Mitch and Noel plus add RJs shooting slump and evans scared to shoot contested shots you can see why knicks offense stinks.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

[Jimmit79]

There's the problem, now people are pointing fingers for specific moves like the Kemba signing, but it's the combination of numerous mistakes all-around that led us to this.

It goes from extending Randle, to trusting RJ as a core piece, to signing Fournier, to not making a move for a PG until washed Kemba became available because no one wanted him...

Our entire starting line-up is rotten.

The notion that Randle's a #1 or #2 is laughable. He's a 6th man or an average starter on a good team that doesn't rely entirely on its bench. RJ is not an NBA starter. Kemba is washed. Fournier is a defensive liability and a bench player on a good team.

This all shows the lack of vision from Leon Rose. He's neither a basketball savant nor an analytics expert - he's a guy who knows people. That's it. This franchise has no sense of direction whatsoever.

When you start looking at coaches & players you’re already falling into the trap.

Who hired the coach?

Who is in charge of the players being on the roster?

Destroy the root not the tree branch.

Also.

Spoiler:

I hate you allllllllllllllll

Exactly.

At the end of the day, the people who put together the product are responsible.

You can't blame the players for not being better than who they are.

The coach has more responsibility than the players (re: Elfraudgate), but even he/she's picked by a front office.

Our criticism or frustration should solely be directed towards the Phil Jacksons, the Steve Mills, the Scott Perrys, the Leon Roses of the world. They are the ones who overrate these players, who can't evaluate talent and who can't put a coherent roster together. Wait, they too were hired by someone, right?

Knicks biggest problem is everyone hired is put on a timeline and nobody wants to come here via FA the ppl that do get bad rep. The knicks are like the DC live action justice league movie they're a always rushed product.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

[Capn'O]

Oh that's right - I had Harrell and Sabonis before they broke out too and that's how I ended up trading into a 3 star team. Somebody call Steve Mills. I'm changing careers.

[Spree2Houston]

The inevitable conclusion will be selling off the vets, playing the kids, and tanking for a top 5 pick. Unfortunately this plan will be one year too late as this upcoming draft sucks. Now we’re forced to compete to justify these terrible contracts that were handed out. Go ny go ny go

[Clyde_Style]

i don't think there's a lineup change that is gonna work. there's too many problems. both mitch & noel are fighting through injuries and not at 100 percent. rj & randle both are struggling a lot offensively and defensively. especially with their outside shot which makes us a lot easier to defend. fournier has been as advertised defensively and inconsistent on offense. the bench guys bring energy but they only have to play 15-20 minutes a night so it's easier to go hard and they're doing it against inferior competition. maybe this will all sort itself out in another month or 2 but with the east they way it is, it'll probably be too late.

Yeah the bottom line is too many problems. Too many bit actors in lead roles. All the same stuff that plagues bad teams, nothing new under the sun here.

and if they put it all together, they'd lose in the 1st round anyway. it's probably a blessing that they don't, as doing so will only prolong this. as long as the next thing they do isn't something stupid.

I think we're tanking whether it is a choice or not unless a trade shakes things up for the better

[aq_ua]

Oh that's right - I had Harrell and Sabonis before they broke out too and that's how I ended up trading into a 3 star team. Somebody call Steve Mills. I'm changing careers.

Not that I doubt you - AT ALL - but can we get a non-cherrypicked transaction list please?

[god shammgod]

Yeah the bottom line is too many problems. Too many bit actors in lead roles. All the same stuff that plagues bad teams, nothing new under the sun here.

and if they put it all together, they'd lose in the 1st round anyway. it's probably a blessing that they don't, as doing so will only prolong this. as long as the next thing they do isn't something stupid.

I think we're tanking whether it is a choice or not unless a trade shakes things up for the better

we'll see what happens. a non superstar trade where we give up assets will be a sign to me that making it back to the playoffs this year is the priority and not what's best in the long term. which means leon rose is just another stooge trying to keep seats filled.