Draftexpress drops Mudiay down to pick #6 today

[Carl_Karlson]

Big time red flags from WCS. Mudiay should be the pick. He has the mentality and physicality to be in NY. All he has to do is improve that J. The kid can do it, he has heart. I have Mudiay on my draft board over Russell because of Manny's defensive ability. It seems like if players don't have defensive IQ or willingness at this stage, they don't ever develop that part of their game

[darkjedi4z]

Mudiay, please show Phil & Co. at the workout that you can be an all star

[GettinitDone]

WCS reminds me of a longer Kenyon Martin. Scoring on oops or putbacks. But may be a superior defender.

[kane2021]

If that's the case, then he probably won't work out here. We need 15 Shane Battier's on the roster.

Yeah really for folks that don't like clown type players, WCS is probably not the guy you'd want. He may work and I'm sure he can make an impact defensively. But a lot of folks seem to have problems with players like this. I just don't want to hear folks bitching about how he's like JR Smith, or go on rants if he pulls a silly stunt like Smith's shoe tying incident, or he dyes his hair orange, or he gets caught on camera smoking a spliff.

Here's a pretty good article on WCS

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2287213-superstardom-awaits-willie-cauley-steinif-he-finally-decides-he-wants-it

He seems like a very likeable guy. But it does not sound like his heart and head is in it all the time. The spotlight in Kentucky bothered him. I am not sure how he would hold up in NY especially if (when) the fans turn on him. I know Kentucky basketball is intense, but NYC and the media/fans here is no joke either.

For WCS's sake, I hope he gets drafted somewhere else after reading that article. I am just not sure he is cut out for NY especially when we are lacking leaders.

Indeed, chat with Cauley-Stein long enough, and you'll likely hear about his desire to start his own clothing line.

The guy who wears bow ties and cutoff sweatpants likes to watch zombie movies and has been known to ride a skateboard to class. His former roommate, Alex Poythress, joked last year that Cauley-Stein is often in "La La Land."

During a recent conversation with Bleacher Report, the topics that made Cauley-Stein perk up the most were, one, his days as a football standout at Olathe (Kansas) Northwest High School, and two, using his pedestal as a Kentucky athlete to touch and influence others.

"I want to change lives," he said.

As for basketball?

Cauley-Stein enjoys the game.

"But I don't know if he loves it," said Shields, the guardian. "He hasn't been bitten by the basketball bug yet."

"There's no question that Willie Cauley-Stein is currently the gold standard [for] athletic ability when it comes to centers in the college game," the report said.

The key is coaxing Cauley-Stein's talent out of him. Just as he did in Spearville and Olathe, he continues to need an extra nudge when, as Payne puts it, those "laid-back, small-town country ways" begin to resurface.

"Sometimes," Cauley-Stein said, "I don't feel like I deserve to be good because I don't work as hard as I should. I'm not going balls to the wall like I should be, so I think I don't deserve to have success.

"Some weeks I'll go super-hard at practice for two straight days, but then the third day, something happens away from basketball and I'll lose focus. I'll say, 'I just want to get through practice. I don't want to conquer it today.' But then I'll go home and realize I missed a chance to get better, and it'll bother me."

This actually makes a whole lot of sense. I dont care that it was just a practice video of him shooting. 7 foot defensive pivots dont normally posses that type of skill. I found it odd that I never noticed that type of ability in games. This would really explain why. Kid probably has no idea how much impact he could have with his natural abilities.

Its both a positive and negative. A guy like Darko had a lot of skill like that. And didnt have the desire. Or Kwame. Who was just a muff. Then you have the Karl Malones of the world. A player who had no desire to be an NBA player. He just wanted the rookie pay check so he could buy a tractor truck and haul trailers cross country. I guess this kid is a risk/reward type player.

I still say take a guard.

[johnnywishbone]

Just draft Michael Sweetney again and get this **** over with.

[moocow007]

The Knicks are really not in a situation where they can take a risk like that IMO. They are a losing team. They don't really have strong leadership in the lockerroom. They don't have any veterans that are known for being able to take players under their wing and work with them. Too many moving parts. Too many new players. Too many expectations. No established system. Instability still. Too much side distractions. He needs to go to a team like the Spurs or the Cavs or some such team where you have a pecking order established, you have a winning culture, you have coaching staff, the mix of veterans, etc. that can get someone like WCS to play focused and keep him righted. That type of team isn't the Knicks right now. It might be where he Knicks would like to get to, but that's not where they are at right now. Would be a mistake IMO. Zach Randolph was an example of someone that could have jump started his career earlier if he hadn't got started in the "jail" in Portland. How many years did he waste before he finally got into the right situation where he turned into a guy that actually can help his team win? Javale McGee also another shining example of a young guy that did not benefit from being in that nut house in Washington off the bat learning from guys like Andray Blatche, Javaris Crittendon, Gilbert Arenas and Nick Young...I mean just repeat those names a few times...dear lord). If you can plug any guy into any system and any situation then there would be a lot more success stories then there has been.

[Thugger HBC]

The Knicks are really not in a situation where they can take a risk like that IMO. They are a losing team. They don't really have strong leadership in the lockerroom. They don't have any veterans that are known for being able to take players under their wing and work with them. Too many moving parts. Too many new players. Too many expectations. No established system. Instability still. Too much side distractions. He needs to go to a team like the Spurs or the Cavs or some such team where you have a pecking order established, you have a winning culture, you have coaching staff, the mix of veterans, etc. that can get someone like WCS to play focused and keep him righted. That type of team isn't the Knicks right now. It might be where he Knicks would like to get to, but that's not where they are at right now. Would be a mistake IMO.

Very good post on the assessment of our current state, but wouldnt this assessment apply more to player that would be expected to help carry the torch vs one who can fit in and do his thing?

I would think the pressures would be much so more on a player like Mudiay whom is expected to develop into something great vs one at worst would be a solid rotational player who can anchor a defense.

[moocow007]

The Knicks are really not in a situation where they can take a risk like that IMO. They are a losing team. They don't really have strong leadership in the lockerroom. They don't have any veterans that are known for being able to take players under their wing and work with them. Too many moving parts. Too many new players. Too many expectations. No established system. Instability still. Too much side distractions. He needs to go to a team like the Spurs or the Cavs or some such team where you have a pecking order established, you have a winning culture, you have coaching staff, the mix of veterans, etc. that can get someone like WCS to play focused and keep him righted. That type of team isn't the Knicks right now. It might be where he Knicks would like to get to, but that's not where they are at right now. Would be a mistake IMO.

Very good post on the assessment of our current state, but wouldnt this assessment apply more to player that would be expected to help carry the torch vs one who can fit in and do his thing?

I would think the pressures would be much so more on a player like Mudiay whom is expected to develop into something great vs one at worst would be a solid rotational player who can anchor a defense.

Honestly, I don't think fans or expectations will be any different if they drafted more of a "role player" type (like Winslow or WCS) or a high upside "star" type like Mudiay. The pressure is going to be super high for whomever they pick. And based on what I've seen and heard from Mudiay, he seems a whole heck of a lot more mature.

And remember, Javale McGee was at one point viewed as possibly developing into one of the NBA's game changing defensive players. Remember? He rookie season he was doing some things on the court defensively that anyone watching would go "holy cow". But then what happened? Really bad situation in Washington (Gilbert Arenas, Andray Blatche, Nick Young and Javaris Crittendon were basically forming the Washington version of the Jailblazers). Now not saying that NY will be like that but rather that the lack of an (good) identity in NY won't help a free spirit like WCS.

[blueNorange]

you can't just use javale mcgee as the worst case scenario for WCS, because you can then use tyreke evans as the worst case scenario for mudiay because evans still doesn't have a consistent shot and it's because of his poor mechanics.

[NBA Fan 1234]

you can't just use javale mcgee as the worst case scenario for WCS, because you can then use tyreke evans as the worst case scenario for mudiay because evans still doesn't have a consistent shot and it's because of his poor mechanics.

Evans mechanics are worse than Mudiay's. I'd happily use McGee and Evans as worst case scenarios - just makes it that much easier to pick Evans (Mudiay).

[blueNorange]

you can't just use javale mcgee as the worst case scenario for WCS, because you can then use tyreke evans as the worst case scenario for mudiay because evans still doesn't have a consistent shot and it's because of his poor mechanics.

Evans mechanics are worse than Mudiay's. I'd happily use McGee and Evans as worst case scenarios - just makes it that much easier to pick Evans (Mudiay).

evans isn't a good player, for the amount of times the ball is in his hands and the numbers he puts up is the reason why the teams he's on are never usually good. and bad mechanics are bad mechanics anyway you slice it, last i checked evans doesn't shoot on the way down like mudiay

god i hope russell falls.

[NBA Fan 1234]

you can't just use javale mcgee as the worst case scenario for WCS, because you can then use tyreke evans as the worst case scenario for mudiay because evans still doesn't have a consistent shot and it's because of his poor mechanics.

Evans mechanics are worse than Mudiay's. I'd happily use McGee and Evans as worst case scenarios - just makes it that much easier to pick Evans (Mudiay).

evans isn't a good player, for the amount of times the ball is in his hands and the numbers he puts up is the reason why the teams he's on are never usually good. and bad mechanics are bad mechanics anyway you slice it, last i checked evans doesn't shoot on the way down like mudiay

god i hope russell falls.

See, I think Evans is good - he's just not great. He's really become a damn good defender the last few seasons and has improved his shooting splits (from 16 feet and out). Yeah, he still pounds the ball for long stretches...but that shouldn't take away the positives he brings to the table. As for his form, his problem is with the release - it's more of a fling than a shot. I actually think that's harder to fix that getting someone to stop shooting on their way down.

An Evans-like player with better vision / actual PG skills but without the ridiculous finishing ability is a good place to start.

But yeah, I hope Russ falls too.

[Johnny Hoops]

Yeah WCS is what, back in my day, call a "free spirit". It's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just not a reliable thing. Free spirits go where the wind blows, do what they feel like at the instance in time, without real care for consequences. You can ask them to make sure that they are there at a specific time at a specific spot and they'll not show up. And it's not because they are malicious it's because they have a different view of priorities. Now there have been all sorts of free spirits that have gained notoriety (good and bad) in the NBA. Bill Walton was a notorious free spirit that if not for injury wold likely have been considered among the greatest centers to ever play the game. Dennis Rodman was an momma's boy type free spirit that did extremely well on the court cause he saw the game as his one conduit to not be judged but off the court he was about as out of control as it comes. JR Smith is a free spirit who doesn't really see the consequences of his actions in the same light as most everyone else. Javale McGee is the reigning space cadet of the NBA and just does whatever, whenever, however. Guys like that can work real well (see Walton and Rodman), they can work sometimes well (see JR) or usually not well at all (see McGee). You have to be able to manage them and cajole them and otherwise work with them. That's not for every system, not for every coach and not for every fanbase in every situation that a franchise finds themselves in. I think WCS would be better in a more established system where you have multiple veterans that can ride him and keep him focused. I don't think you want to put him into a critical role (at least not right off the bat and...let's be honest...4th overall pick for the Knicks right now the expectations are going to be nuts). I'm not sure that that's the Knicks, not now, not where they are at compared to where they want to go. The Knicks need someone that is comfortable in the spotlight, that wants the spotlight and that has the talent to back it up for the '4th overall pick' role that Knick fans will thrown on him (hint: Knicks fans are NOT going to be expecting a "solid role player" and be fine with it). Attached to this pick is so much hopes of so many Knick fans that have been so down and out for such a long time, whomever they pick better be prepared for it.

Yeah, very well said and agreed. Just a bad situation for him here.

What are you guys talking about no veterans around him?

Don't we have our savior Melo?
Aren't we all talking about signing at least 2 very good players this summer?
Aren't we talking about saving enough room for another MAX guy next summer?

That's 4 very good players - maybe star quality right there. Do we really think that's not enough for a young player - is Melo that much of complete j-off that he can't even keep 1 rookie under his belt?

[NBA Fan 1234]

Yeah WCS is what, back in my day, call a "free spirit". It's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just not a reliable thing. Free spirits go where the wind blows, do what they feel like at the instance in time, without real care for consequences. You can ask them to make sure that they are there at a specific time at a specific spot and they'll not show up. And it's not because they are malicious it's because they have a different view of priorities. Now there have been all sorts of free spirits that have gained notoriety (good and bad) in the NBA. Bill Walton was a notorious free spirit that if not for injury wold likely have been considered among the greatest centers to ever play the game. Dennis Rodman was an momma's boy type free spirit that did extremely well on the court cause he saw the game as his one conduit to not be judged but off the court he was about as out of control as it comes. JR Smith is a free spirit who doesn't really see the consequences of his actions in the same light as most everyone else. Javale McGee is the reigning space cadet of the NBA and just does whatever, whenever, however. Guys like that can work real well (see Walton and Rodman), they can work sometimes well (see JR) or usually not well at all (see McGee). You have to be able to manage them and cajole them and otherwise work with them. That's not for every system, not for every coach and not for every fanbase in every situation that a franchise finds themselves in. I think WCS would be better in a more established system where you have multiple veterans that can ride him and keep him focused. I don't think you want to put him into a critical role (at least not right off the bat and...let's be honest...4th overall pick for the Knicks right now the expectations are going to be nuts). I'm not sure that that's the Knicks, not now, not where they are at compared to where they want to go. The Knicks need someone that is comfortable in the spotlight, that wants the spotlight and that has the talent to back it up for the '4th overall pick' role that Knick fans will thrown on him (hint: Knicks fans are NOT going to be expecting a "solid role player" and be fine with it). Attached to this pick is so much hopes of so many Knick fans that have been so down and out for such a long time, whomever they pick better be prepared for it.

Yeah, very well said and agreed. Just a bad situation for him here.

What are you guys talking about no veterans around him?

Don't we have our savior Melo?
Aren't we all talking about signing at least 2 very good players this summer?
Aren't we talking about saving enough room for another MAX guy next summer?

That's 4 very good players - maybe star quality right there. Do we really think that's not enough for a young player - is Melo that much of complete j-off that he can't even keep 1 rookie under his belt?

Melo isn't a leader / veteran like Kidd and Kurt were on the 50 win team. We can talk all we want about signing 2 very good players, but let's be honest, the only two "very good players" are Gasol and LMA and it's unlikely we sign one let alone two. And yeah, next summer we will have enough but FA is always a crap shoot. You shouldn't draft someone who might flame out unless it's a perfect situation. Bynum had Phil Jackson and Kobe (can be viewed as a positive or negative, I guess) and look what happened to him? Sometimes players just don't care -- and when that is the case, even a veteran group of players won't help. It falls squarely on the shoulders of the player.

[melo mvp 15]

I can't wait until everything we're speculating about now looks absolutely stupid for the new next few weeks as players work out and rumors leak. And it'll be even funnier in a few years when some of these guys are busts and some are stars. June 25 can't come soon enough.

[EchelonNYK]

I can't wait until everything we're speculating about now looks absolutely stupid for the new next few weeks as players work out and rumors leak. And it'll be even funnier in a few years when some of these guys are busts and some are stars. June 25 can't come soon enough.

Mainly the ones pulling for WCS. Knicks fans are wasting their time even mentioning that man here.

[ibraheim718]

I can't wait until everything we're speculating about now looks absolutely stupid for the new next few weeks as players work out and rumors leak. And it'll be even funnier in a few years when some of these guys are busts and some are stars. June 25 can't come soon enough.

Mainly the ones pulling for WCS. Knicks fans are wasting their time even mentioning that man here.

It's them rose colored glasses cats.

[moocow007]

Yeah WCS is what, back in my day, call a "free spirit". It's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just not a reliable thing. Free spirits go where the wind blows, do what they feel like at the instance in time, without real care for consequences. You can ask them to make sure that they are there at a specific time at a specific spot and they'll not show up. And it's not because they are malicious it's because they have a different view of priorities. Now there have been all sorts of free spirits that have gained notoriety (good and bad) in the NBA. Bill Walton was a notorious free spirit that if not for injury wold likely have been considered among the greatest centers to ever play the game. Dennis Rodman was an momma's boy type free spirit that did extremely well on the court cause he saw the game as his one conduit to not be judged but off the court he was about as out of control as it comes. JR Smith is a free spirit who doesn't really see the consequences of his actions in the same light as most everyone else. Javale McGee is the reigning space cadet of the NBA and just does whatever, whenever, however. Guys like that can work real well (see Walton and Rodman), they can work sometimes well (see JR) or usually not well at all (see McGee). You have to be able to manage them and cajole them and otherwise work with them. That's not for every system, not for every coach and not for every fanbase in every situation that a franchise finds themselves in. I think WCS would be better in a more established system where you have multiple veterans that can ride him and keep him focused. I don't think you want to put him into a critical role (at least not right off the bat and...let's be honest...4th overall pick for the Knicks right now the expectations are going to be nuts). I'm not sure that that's the Knicks, not now, not where they are at compared to where they want to go. The Knicks need someone that is comfortable in the spotlight, that wants the spotlight and that has the talent to back it up for the '4th overall pick' role that Knick fans will thrown on him (hint: Knicks fans are NOT going to be expecting a "solid role player" and be fine with it). Attached to this pick is so much hopes of so many Knick fans that have been so down and out for such a long time, whomever they pick better be prepared for it.

Yeah, very well said and agreed. Just a bad situation for him here.

What are you guys talking about no veterans around him?

Don't we have our savior Melo?
Aren't we all talking about signing at least 2 very good players this summer?
Aren't we talking about saving enough room for another MAX guy next summer?

That's 4 very good players - maybe star quality right there. Do we really think that's not enough for a young player - is Melo that much of complete j-off that he can't even keep 1 rookie under his belt?

Anthony is not a strong leader. That doens't make him a complete j-off since that would also make you a complete j-off. Are you?

[nykfan42]

You don't pick a defensive big at the 4th pick in the draft and no picks the following year. You just don't...

[nykfan42]

The Knicks are really not in a situation where they can take a risk like that IMO. They are a losing team. They don't really have strong leadership in the lockerroom. They don't have any veterans that are known for being able to take players under their wing and work with them. Too many moving parts. Too many new players. Too many expectations. No established system. Instability still. Too much side distractions. He needs to go to a team like the Spurs or the Cavs or some such team where you have a pecking order established, you have a winning culture, you have coaching staff, the mix of veterans, etc. that can get someone like WCS to play focused and keep him righted. That type of team isn't the Knicks right now. It might be where he Knicks would like to get to, but that's not where they are at right now. Would be a mistake IMO.

Very good post on the assessment of our current state, but wouldnt this assessment apply more to player that would be expected to help carry the torch vs one who can fit in and do his thing?

I would think the pressures would be much so more on a player like Mudiay whom is expected to develop into something great vs one at worst would be a solid rotational player who can anchor a defense.

Honestly, I don't think fans or expectations will be any different if they drafted more of a "role player" type (like Winslow or WCS) or a high upside "star" type like Mudiay. The pressure is going to be super high for whomever they pick. And based on what I've seen and heard from Mudiay, he seems a whole heck of a lot more mature.

And remember, Javale McGee was at one point viewed as possibly developing into one of the NBA's game changing defensive players. Remember? He rookie season he was doing some things on the court defensively that anyone watching would go "holy cow". But then what happened? Really bad situation in Washington (Gilbert Arenas, Andray Blatche, Nick Young and Javaris Crittendon were basically forming the Washington version of the Jailblazers). Now not saying that NY will be like that but rather that the lack of an (good) identity in NY won't help a free spirit like WCS.

I was saying that too. But I was saying it because of his basketball IQ. Probably one of the lowest IQ I can think of besides JR.

I think Winslow would provide a more well-rounded game because he can impact the game offensively. WCS is just a defensive player that has said himself he doesn't try all the time. Yeah sorry buddy, take a hike! Winslow has a good feel for the game and he gives his all on both ends of the floor. I don't get why people would be upset if we ended up picking him if Russell or Mudiay were off the board. WCS is trash and I don't want a guy that openly questions his own effort. That's pathetic.