PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6

[Nazrmohamed]

First preseason gamed not worried yet... like what I saw from Rose, KP, Jennings, Willy, Ndour, Kuz etc.. Melo is Melo... he just needs to stay more with the catch and shoot or post up... way less one step iso moves... he shoots a higher percentage on catch and shoots anyway... felt we didn't get into many fast break plays... Houston with Harden at PG kept attacking and attacking the basket.. like their offense and bench depth.. which allows them to play that way... also they have plenty of vets.

Still have a concern with our bench.. think we need more fire power and defense... Sasha shouldn't be on this team... Lance Stephenson should've been instead... or another two way PF/C.. a bench of:

Kuz
LThomas
Willy/O'Quinn
Stephenson
Jennings

Would have been better...

The way we are currently setup.. looks like Holiday, Kuz and Willy are going to get minutes... not feeling that great about that... hopefully they prove me wrong..

well just my opinion...

I thought our bench played great Kuzminskas looks like an nba player and it makes sense now after finding out he was 27 yrs old. Lance didn't play well in terms of shots falling but he moved well, made the right passes and played his usual defense. Jennings is part of that bench and no, he didn't play all that well in terms of hitting the side of a barn but he got anywhere he wanted to and made some great passes. And even Holiday in what minutes he got showed off his jumper.

Keep in mind in the second half we scored 61 to their 62 and most of it was done by our bench. Starters came in and out but it was mostly the bench. it was our first unit that **** the bed. And that's fine. Starters wanna test their games against top talent in their first game, see what moves they learned or still got. The second unit guys spend more time proving they can be a cog in the system.....so they ran a better system. Like many are saying, you cant take everything from one preseason game but my point is our bench has some decent talent and are seemingly more willing to push the pace, run a balanced offense and I think its got guys who you can plug in at different moments and get decent production. I'm eager to see Kuzminskas in with Melo out as the only subbed starter. I'm looking to see Lance come in for KP and maybe Melo plays PF with Lance at SF. I'm eager to even see Ndour come in for Noah and maybe play PF shifting KP to C in a spread offense. Lots of combo's.

[thebuzzardman]

Watch on YouTube

I wanted to point out this clip from last season because it's another way, to me, to discuss what I expect to see the knicks do this season. The Hawks were literally attempting to force "iso calderon" basically. Fight over every screen or pick because Calderon was never a threat to attack the rim. We couldn't get Melo the ball in part due to the fact that Calderon was not a threat, it was easy to double Melo, Jose would stay on the perimeter anyway. Typically, Rolo also is not a severe threat to score, but more importantly, he wasn't a threat to find cutters because we didn't have guys who cut Hard and fast so for most of this play, the hawks are playing great defense. The knicks do something, pretty much by accident, which is execute a give and go between rolo and calderon. Schroeder relaxed because as most would think "calderon aint cuttin" and then for whatever reason, he did and rolo recognized and made the pass. That play was an ANOMALY for the knicks. We rarely did it because we didn't have the personnel. Replace Calderon with Rose and Rolo with Noah and that becomes a regular occurrence. Noah is elite at passing and finding cutters and rose is always cutting, and doing so with purpose and force.

What guys here need to recognize is that from this simple action, a ton of offense will open up, much of it within the framework and spacing of the triangle. More importantly, ISO Melo becomes a stronger and more effective part of this offense. The ISO wasn't the problem, it was the reliance on it because it was essentially our most effective way to get penetration that was the problem. Melo absolutely needs to continue to post up, call for the ball and do what he does because it keeps the defense honest. What needs to happen in reality is you need players out there strong and confident enough to understand when to look him off. Noah being the elite passer he is, will find Melo. Rose will find Melo. It's just significantly easier if some of those finds, come from action taking place away from Melo. You run that same play above and instead of running over every screen, you're running under to keep rose in front. You're also likely sending 2 guys at him which, if Melo is on the wing as he was above, prevents the cheating double team they employed to deny the pass calderon initially wanted to make. With Rose, Noah, KP, Melo and Lee, the defense is instantly compromised and put in uncomfortable situations. If you focus on stopping the 2 man game between Noah and Rose (which every team in the league already knows is a must to stop due to their time in chicago) or KP and Rose (which you'll want to stop by virtue of KP's game), you're basically choosing to take a chance that Melo won't beat you. As fans, we may be comfortable with that but in the NBA, teams won't be. The same reason teams still send 2 guys to stop rose despite us all believing his knee injury cooked him, is the same reason teams won't just LET Melo have a one-one-one matchup w/o a fight: They're too good.

I say all this because through all the examination of the 1st PRESEASON game, many of us don't actually know the difference between good offense (regardless of whether the shot was made) and bad offense. It's def fair to critique the players and the game but we need to keep in mind what these guys are actually attempting to figure out. They're not looking to give Melo less opportunities to ISO, they're looking to get him EASIER iso opportunities which I saw plenty of in that first game. They're not looking to rely on MVP rose, to score 25ppg, they're looking for him to cut hard and fast, play with speed. We're not asking Noah to score 12ppg, we want him to facilitate from the post or free throw line , screen and roll. The ball doesn't stick because it went to Melo in an iso, it sticks because we're tryin so hard to get him the ball that no one else is moving. I didn't see much of that in that 1st game. Guys were moving, cutting and spacing the floor, we weren't hitting shots and playing 0 defense. We'll look much different later, and if we don't, thats when I'll be willing to right off this team as a non playoff team and this offseason as failure.

Please post more often

[Rotten Apple]

Watch on YouTube

I wanted to point out this clip from last season because it's another way, to me, to discuss what I expect to see the knicks do this season. The Hawks were literally attempting to force "iso calderon" basically. Fight over every screen or pick because Calderon was never a threat to attack the rim. We couldn't get Melo the ball in part due to the fact that Calderon was not a threat, it was easy to double Melo, Jose would stay on the perimeter anyway. Typically, Rolo also is not a severe threat to score, but more importantly, he wasn't a threat to find cutters because we didn't have guys who cut Hard and fast so for most of this play, the hawks are playing great defense. The knicks do something, pretty much by accident, which is execute a give and go between rolo and calderon. Schroeder relaxed because as most would think "calderon aint cuttin" and then for whatever reason, he did and rolo recognized and made the pass. That play was an ANOMALY for the knicks. We rarely did it because we didn't have the personnel. Replace Calderon with Rose and Rolo with Noah and that becomes a regular occurrence. Noah is elite at passing and finding cutters and rose is always cutting, and doing so with purpose and force.

What guys here need to recognize is that from this simple action, a ton of offense will open up, much of it within the framework and spacing of the triangle. More importantly, ISO Melo becomes a stronger and more effective part of this offense. The ISO wasn't the problem, it was the reliance on it because it was essentially our most effective way to get penetration that was the problem. Melo absolutely needs to continue to post up, call for the ball and do what he does because it keeps the defense honest. What needs to happen in reality is you need players out there strong and confident enough to understand when to look him off. Noah being the elite passer he is, will find Melo. Rose will find Melo. It's just significantly easier if some of those finds, come from action taking place away from Melo. You run that same play above and instead of running over every screen, you're running under to keep rose in front. You're also likely sending 2 guys at him which, if Melo is on the wing as he was above, prevents the cheating double team they employed to deny the pass calderon initially wanted to make. With Rose, Noah, KP, Melo and Lee, the defense is instantly compromised and put in uncomfortable situations. If you focus on stopping the 2 man game between Noah and Rose (which every team in the league already knows is a must to stop due to their time in chicago) or KP and Rose (which you'll want to stop by virtue of KP's game), you're basically choosing to take a chance that Melo won't beat you. As fans, we may be comfortable with that but in the NBA, teams won't be. The same reason teams still send 2 guys to stop rose despite us all believing his knee injury cooked him, is the same reason teams won't just LET Melo have a one-one-one matchup w/o a fight: They're too good.

I say all this because through all the examination of the 1st PRESEASON game, many of us don't actually know the difference between good offense (regardless of whether the shot was made) and bad offense. It's def fair to critique the players and the game but we need to keep in mind what these guys are actually attempting to figure out. They're not looking to give Melo less opportunities to ISO, they're looking to get him EASIER iso opportunities which I saw plenty of in that first game. They're not looking to rely on MVP rose, to score 25ppg, they're looking for him to cut hard and fast, play with speed. We're not asking Noah to score 12ppg, we want him to facilitate from the post or free throw line , screen and roll. The ball doesn't stick because it went to Melo in an iso, it sticks because we're tryin so hard to get him the ball that no one else is moving. I didn't see much of that in that 1st game. Guys were moving, cutting and spacing the floor, we weren't hitting shots and playing 0 defense. We'll look much different later, and if we don't, thats when I'll be willing to right off this team as a non playoff team and this offseason as failure.

These are the kind of posts I love. Detailed, unbiased analysis of the team. No agendas, just Knicks basketball discussion.

[Nazrmohamed]

There is no see-saw here. As you may have noticed, I and plenty of others gave Melo an enormous amount of slack by accounting for a lack of supporting cast thus perhaps justifying his higher usage rate and volume shooting.

And you also see that I explained EXACTLY why I might have an eagle eye on how he adapts to a new roster that gives him ample support even from the very first pre-season game, because I personally do EXPECT MORE from him, not less. I expect him to lead by example from the very first game. So I'm putting him a higher standard and not accepting mediocrity. He CAN be a superior teammate as shown by his actions on the floor (not his words), but I have reasons to doubt his ability to be consistently aware of his new context. So I will put his feet to the fire precisely because I expect him to lead by example.

You can't have it both ways. Either you hold someone to a higher standard or you don't. Some guys always want Melo treated like a pet when he should be treated as the one who is expected to do more and be more because that is what he is here for and what he is paid for.

And, no, Melo has not been a constant in terms of greatness for 5 years. He's been good at doing Melo, but now we'll see if he is good at being an A-Level ball player for real and not just a scorer who gets tunnel vision at the wrong times.

TBH, I didn't necessarily think Melo's ISOs were bad IQ plays. He sees Ryan Anderson, a slow white guy he can blow by. He sees Corey Brewer, a guy who weighs 180 lbs soaking wet and he can bully. Then there's Sam Dekker, and that's like facing Ron Baker in training camp. Throughout his career, he has DOMINATED these scrubs. It's just that I think we're at the juncture at which I think Melo's body is starting to betray him. Normally, I'd give him a pass since it's the 1st preseason game, but he just played in the Olympics in the summer so he should be ready to go. You could see it some of it last year...the first step was there most of the time, but only when he dug in...and his lift at the rim was mediocre. Last night, it was even worse, and he was getting his shots thrown back like he was a D-Leaguer.

xNewYorkMadex made the best analogy. Paul Pierce was once known as a lower efficiency black hole just like Melo. But Doc pulled him aside and told him they needed him to work on becoming a great 3-point shooter, in catch-and-shoots and spot-ups. The rest is history. Pierce transformed himself into someone who wasn't just great at basketball...but great at team basketball.

This is not me saying that Melo should just abandon ISO's. The fact is we'll always need his entire offensive repertoire for a variety of situations. My hope is that with he starts doing more of the efficient things and less of the inefficient things as he meshes with his talented supporting cast. He did more of it in the first half of last season, but old habits die hard.

Agreed. Perhaps Phil can get through to him. They addressed it in the press conference so Melo making adjustments is clearly on the organization's wishlist.

This line of dialogue has been the best so far and I agree with most of it. Earlier in the thread I made my case for how Melo should play and it became all about it being the first game. I'll never judge how I feel about Melo in a preseason game where star players should still test the fact that they are indeed star players and pretty much just get their legs under them; even after the Olympics. its a new team, guys who are used to having the ball need to build chemistry.

But one preseason game does allow you to see the possibilities of what players can do. For example, I literally just spent my whole summer being sold that Derrick Rose can no longer play basketball and that he was a huge shell of himself. Now its definitely possible he reinjured himself and miss time, but as of today, right now he doesn't seem hindered in any way from doing whatever he wants on the court. I guess we'll have to see how he recovers from game to game but he looked good. Jennings looks like a bullet out there on the court. I wanted KP to get stronger and what ended up happening is he got more athletic and coordinated instead and I gotta say I'm pleased.

So really when I talk about Melo changing his game its less about my views of Melo but rather my view of the talent around him. I believe its increased and that he should adapt to that. He can take a break now, he can get easy shots now, he isn't the only one that needs to be scouted now. Up until now I've always defended Melos game with the understanding that most of his surrounding talent has been one of two things, subpar or hurt. Now he's got some talent to help him with the load he's gotta adapt and use it. And I think the Pierce route is the smartest thing. It kept Pierce effective for longer than he probably would've and it helped his team. And Melo don't have to really learn a new skillset to do what I'm asking, he has one of the most versatile repertoires in the league, I'm just asking him, or the Knicks to have him start those options from the perimeter and a bit more off the ball. Hopefully Hornicek can get a bit more freedom with his offense or use other guys in different levels of being featured in that offense.

I think someone responded saying we put KP in the same situation and everyone went nuts. The pinch post and yes, I'd rather he in it than Melo but for one he's actually a PF, not our SF. and secondly it keeps Melo moving off the ball and gets him good shots. Instead we put Melo in the low post and KP on the outside. Nobody has a problem with KP on the perimeter but if Melo does it he's acting like Novak? Even if that were the case and its not with Melos versatility, but even if it was Melos actually a pretty good shooter on those shots.

[Nazrmohamed]

Watch on YouTube

I wanted to point out this clip from last season because it's another way, to me, to discuss what I expect to see the knicks do this season. The Hawks were literally attempting to force "iso calderon" basically. Fight over every screen or pick because Calderon was never a threat to attack the rim. We couldn't get Melo the ball in part due to the fact that Calderon was not a threat, it was easy to double Melo, Jose would stay on the perimeter anyway. Typically, Rolo also is not a severe threat to score, but more importantly, he wasn't a threat to find cutters because we didn't have guys who cut Hard and fast so for most of this play, the hawks are playing great defense. The knicks do something, pretty much by accident, which is execute a give and go between rolo and calderon. Schroeder relaxed because as most would think "calderon aint cuttin" and then for whatever reason, he did and rolo recognized and made the pass. That play was an ANOMALY for the knicks. We rarely did it because we didn't have the personnel. Replace Calderon with Rose and Rolo with Noah and that becomes a regular occurrence. Noah is elite at passing and finding cutters and rose is always cutting, and doing so with purpose and force.

What guys here need to recognize is that from this simple action, a ton of offense will open up, much of it within the framework and spacing of the triangle. More importantly, ISO Melo becomes a stronger and more effective part of this offense. The ISO wasn't the problem, it was the reliance on it because it was essentially our most effective way to get penetration that was the problem. Melo absolutely needs to continue to post up, call for the ball and do what he does because it keeps the defense honest. What needs to happen in reality is you need players out there strong and confident enough to understand when to look him off. Noah being the elite passer he is, will find Melo. Rose will find Melo. It's just significantly easier if some of those finds, come from action taking place away from Melo. You run that same play above and instead of running over every screen, you're running under to keep rose in front. You're also likely sending 2 guys at him which, if Melo is on the wing as he was above, prevents the cheating double team they employed to deny the pass calderon initially wanted to make. With Rose, Noah, KP, Melo and Lee, the defense is instantly compromised and put in uncomfortable situations. If you focus on stopping the 2 man game between Noah and Rose (which every team in the league already knows is a must to stop due to their time in chicago) or KP and Rose (which you'll want to stop by virtue of KP's game), you're basically choosing to take a chance that Melo won't beat you. As fans, we may be comfortable with that but in the NBA, teams won't be. The same reason teams still send 2 guys to stop rose despite us all believing his knee injury cooked him, is the same reason teams won't just LET Melo have a one-one-one matchup w/o a fight: They're too good.

I say all this because through all the examination of the 1st PRESEASON game, many of us don't actually know the difference between good offense (regardless of whether the shot was made) and bad offense. It's def fair to critique the players and the game but we need to keep in mind what these guys are actually attempting to figure out. They're not looking to give Melo less opportunities to ISO, they're looking to get him EASIER iso opportunities which I saw plenty of in that first game. They're not looking to rely on MVP rose, to score 25ppg, they're looking for him to cut hard and fast, play with speed. We're not asking Noah to score 12ppg, we want him to facilitate from the post or free throw line , screen and roll. The ball doesn't stick because it went to Melo in an iso, it sticks because we're tryin so hard to get him the ball that no one else is moving. I didn't see much of that in that 1st game. Guys were moving, cutting and spacing the floor, we weren't hitting shots and playing 0 defense. We'll look much different later, and if we don't, thats when I'll be willing to right off this team as a non playoff team and this offseason as failure.

Please post more often

Yeah, I don't even know if that's the best strategy but I definitely felt more educated about it after seeing his post. I guess I was hoping to see a more modern principle version of the triangle or less of it altogether and he was more on the unapologetic all in mindset. Probably more likely how its gonna be. But yeah, that was a great post.

[dakomish23]

Yep. There are guys who think saying Melo is of average intelligence is some kind of slander when it is a legit statement based on his too often mediocre judgment on the court. We all know he CAN pass well and play IN RHYTHM, but the amount of times when he needlessly plays inside a bubble of his own making balances out the more intelligent playmaking he is capable of.

The real point is he has the kind of squad he was begging for and now that he has got it does he adapt and play more selflessly or does he still play the same way?

Considering all of the flapdoodle and mumblemush spoken by the players and Melo in the off-season about this great new beginning it is perfectly natural for some of us to expect him to set the proper tone out of the gate. THAT'S CALLED LEADERSHIP. Melo is an average leader at best just like his brain.

Call out the riot cops now. The Melo police are coming.

It's not that the IQ comment is slander. It's that the IQ comment is false.

There's a huge difference between having the ability to be a high IQ player but being selfish at times versus not having the ability at all.

No one has or ever will confuse Melo for always playing like a high IQ player. These blanket statements are made by folks who have an anti Melo agenda for years. We have a ton of evidence to the contrary, but after he has a bad game, that evidence doesn't exist.

I'm a Melo supporter. I said he had a crappy game and forced the issue. I also know that won't be the case most of the season.

Why is ok to ignore the overwhelming mountain of evidence and have the soapbox squadron have a field day but if you defend the one constant good player we've had for 5 years it's the Melo police?

I never understood the emotional seesaw some folks have seemed to always have with our stars.

There is no see-saw here. As you may have noticed, I and plenty of others gave Melo an enormous amount of slack by accounting for a lack of supporting cast thus perhaps justifying his higher usage rate and volume shooting.

And you also see that I explained EXACTLY why I might have an eagle eye on how he adapts to a new roster that gives him ample support even from the very first pre-season game, because I personally do EXPECT MORE from him, not less. I expect him to lead by example from the very first game. So I'm putting him a higher standard and not accepting mediocrity. He CAN be a superior teammate as shown by his actions on the floor (not his words), but I have reasons to doubt his ability to be consistently aware of his new context. So I will put his feet to the fire precisely because I expect him to lead by example.

You can't have it both ways. Either you hold someone to a higher standard or you don't. Some guys always want Melo treated like a pet when he should be treated as the one who is expected to do more and be more because that is what he is here for and what he is paid for.

And, no, Melo has not been a constant in terms of greatness for 5 years. He's been good at doing Melo, but now we'll see if he is good at being an A-Level ball player for real and not just a scorer who gets tunnel vision at the wrong times.

Melo has been great for this team for the overwhelming majority of the past 5 years. He has accolades and numbers to back it up. He is still ranked highly among all NBA players despite being in the twilight of his prime. You don't have to admit for it to be true.

He will figure out how to play with a burgeoning star and better cast members and a brand new system under a new head coach. He will adapt, just like he did last year. It will take some time
because he's adapting to them to maximize their impact, not the other way around.

They've played 1 preseason game together. Folks are acting like it's 50 games in. Talk to me after the seasons over. Let's see if Melo did or did not adapt like a high IQ player would. I bet he comes through, like he has for 5 years.

This is the same **** every year. He has a bad game and it's the same arguments. He has many good games and it's back on the bandwagon. Im sure they'll save you a seat.

[AmazingJason]

Is it just me or is this kind of a long PG thread for the 1st preseason game of the season?

You guys so crazy

We are like the Golden State Warriors of NBA basketball internet forums

dakomish23 = Pachulia
CJackson = Draymond
Rotten Apple = Durant
Nazrmohammed = Klay
AmazingJason = Curry

[ibraheim718]

Is it just me or is this kind of a long PG thread for the 1st preseason game of the season?

You guys so crazy

We are like the Golden State Warriors of NBA basketball internet forums

dakomish23 = Pachulia
CJackson = Draymond
Rotten Apple = Durant
Nazrmohammed = Klay
AmazingJason = Curry

Uhhh....

Ibraheim718 = Jerry West

[Capn'O]

Capn'O = banned

[CJackson]

TBH, I didn't necessarily think Melo's ISOs were bad IQ plays. He sees Ryan Anderson, a slow white guy he can blow by. He sees Corey Brewer, a guy who weighs 180 lbs soaking wet and he can bully. Then there's Sam Dekker, and that's like facing Ron Baker in training camp. Throughout his career, he has DOMINATED these scrubs. It's just that I think we're at the juncture at which I think Melo's body is starting to betray him. Normally, I'd give him a pass since it's the 1st preseason game, but he just played in the Olympics in the summer so he should be ready to go. You could see it some of it last year...the first step was there most of the time, but only when he dug in...and his lift at the rim was mediocre. Last night, it was even worse, and he was getting his shots thrown back like he was a D-Leaguer.

xNewYorkMadex made the best analogy. Paul Pierce was once known as a lower efficiency black hole just like Melo. But Doc pulled him aside and told him they needed him to work on becoming a great 3-point shooter, in catch-and-shoots and spot-ups. The rest is history. Pierce transformed himself into someone who wasn't just great at basketball...but great at team basketball.

This is not me saying that Melo should just abandon ISO's. The fact is we'll always need his entire offensive repertoire for a variety of situations. My hope is that with he starts doing more of the efficient things and less of the inefficient things as he meshes with his talented supporting cast. He did more of it in the first half of last season, but old habits die hard.

Agreed. Perhaps Phil can get through to him. They addressed it in the press conference so Melo making adjustments is clearly on the organization's wishlist.

This line of dialogue has been the best so far and I agree with most of it. Earlier in the thread I made my case for how Melo should play and it became all about it being the first game. I'll never judge how I feel about Melo in a preseason game where star players should still test the fact that they are indeed star players and pretty much just get their legs under them; even after the Olympics. its a new team, guys who are used to having the ball need to build chemistry.

But one preseason game does allow you to see the possibilities of what players can do. For example, I literally just spent my whole summer being sold that Derrick Rose can no longer play basketball and that he was a huge shell of himself. Now its definitely possible he reinjured himself and miss time, but as of today, right now he doesn't seem hindered in any way from doing whatever he wants on the court. I guess we'll have to see how he recovers from game to game but he looked good. Jennings looks like a bullet out there on the court. I wanted KP to get stronger and what ended up happening is he got more athletic and coordinated instead and I gotta say I'm pleased.

So really when I talk about Melo changing his game its less about my views of Melo but rather my view of the talent around him. I believe its increased and that he should adapt to that. He can take a break now, he can get easy shots now, he isn't the only one that needs to be scouted now. Up until now I've always defended Melos game with the understanding that most of his surrounding talent has been one of two things, subpar or hurt. Now he's got some talent to help him with the load he's gotta adapt and use it. And I think the Pierce route is the smartest thing. It kept Pierce effective for longer than he probably would've and it helped his team. And Melo don't have to really learn a new skillset to do what I'm asking, he has one of the most versatile repertoires in the league, I'm just asking him, or the Knicks to have him start those options from the perimeter and a bit more off the ball. Hopefully Hornicek can get a bit more freedom with his offense or use other guys in different levels of being featured in that offense.

I think someone responded saying we put KP in the same situation and everyone went nuts. The pinch post and yes, I'd rather he in it than Melo but for one he's actually a PF, not our SF. and secondly it keeps Melo moving off the ball and gets him good shots. Instead we put Melo in the low post and KP on the outside. Nobody has a problem with KP on the perimeter but if Melo does it he's acting like Novak? Even if that were the case and its not with Melos versatility, but even if it was Melos actually a pretty good shooter on those shots.

Yes, I believe these are all basic and reasonable things to say. The talent has been upgraded. Only a few times did I choose to squabble over it this Summer with full negatrons thinking the club had not been improved. It most surely has. A LOT. There are guys at pretty much every position who either are better or show the promise to be than whom we had on the roster before. We carried over only 3 or 4 guys from last year. That's a big turnover. And I totally shifted my position on Phil based on what he did about it which was very craftily rebuild the team on the fly in one off-season. I think it was very impressive.

And the first game was full of things to be enthused about. Nobody is bumming out about Melo or at least I don't think so. Myself and quite a few others just found it odd that he came out of the gate playing bully ball and showing little of the Olympic sheen we figured would have him being crisp and ready to pick his spots and not force it. Yes, it is only one game and that is exactly why some itemized what they want to see, because that is about stating what your standards are and what you expect from Melo. If he was just a bag of poop then none of us would care or express any disappointment or push for him to be better than ever.

Setting the bar higher for Melo is simply stating what I want to see from him and that is probably pretty damn close I assume to what most fans want which is the best version of Melo for THIS team. He has a golden opportunity. He can work less and achieve more while facilitating everyone too. It's a win-win if he does. I'd rather be critical and hopeful than indifferent and hopeless and some knee-jerk types don't have that disposition, so whatever.

I'm happy about where the team is at. I agree Rose and Jennings as a whole are like a paradigm shift compared to where our backcourt was all these years. Can't lose with both on one year deals and if they excel then again its a win-win. Lee looked well above average too and I can see Holiday being in the rotation. That's four guards that can do damage and at least two of them can guard his own mama. That's a big upgrade.

Plenty to be positive about. I'm not worried about Melo. If he plays in a bubble while the other guys are playing the right way the whole world will smoke him so the last thing any cats on here should get antsy about is any of us pushing Melo to adapt. He has to anyway. We're just being vocal ahead of the curve and wanting him to make it happen.

[CJackson]

It's not that the IQ comment is slander. It's that the IQ comment is false.

There's a huge difference between having the ability to be a high IQ player but being selfish at times versus not having the ability at all.

No one has or ever will confuse Melo for always playing like a high IQ player. These blanket statements are made by folks who have an anti Melo agenda for years. We have a ton of evidence to the contrary, but after he has a bad game, that evidence doesn't exist.

I'm a Melo supporter. I said he had a crappy game and forced the issue. I also know that won't be the case most of the season.

Why is ok to ignore the overwhelming mountain of evidence and have the soapbox squadron have a field day but if you defend the one constant good player we've had for 5 years it's the Melo police?

I never understood the emotional seesaw some folks have seemed to always have with our stars.

There is no see-saw here. As you may have noticed, I and plenty of others gave Melo an enormous amount of slack by accounting for a lack of supporting cast thus perhaps justifying his higher usage rate and volume shooting.

And you also see that I explained EXACTLY why I might have an eagle eye on how he adapts to a new roster that gives him ample support even from the very first pre-season game, because I personally do EXPECT MORE from him, not less. I expect him to lead by example from the very first game. So I'm putting him a higher standard and not accepting mediocrity. He CAN be a superior teammate as shown by his actions on the floor (not his words), but I have reasons to doubt his ability to be consistently aware of his new context. So I will put his feet to the fire precisely because I expect him to lead by example.

You can't have it both ways. Either you hold someone to a higher standard or you don't. Some guys always want Melo treated like a pet when he should be treated as the one who is expected to do more and be more because that is what he is here for and what he is paid for.

And, no, Melo has not been a constant in terms of greatness for 5 years. He's been good at doing Melo, but now we'll see if he is good at being an A-Level ball player for real and not just a scorer who gets tunnel vision at the wrong times.

Melo has been great for this team for the overwhelming majority of the past 5 years. He has accolades and numbers to back it up. He is still ranked highly among all NBA players despite being in the twilight of his prime. You don't have to admit for it to be true.

He will figure out how to play with a burgeoning star and better cast members and a brand new system under a new head coach. He will adapt, just like he did last year. It will take some time
because he's adapting to them to maximize their impact, not the other way around.

They've played 1 preseason game together. Folks are acting like it's 50 games in. Talk to me after the seasons over. Let's see if Melo did or did not adapt like a high IQ player would. I bet he comes through, like he has for 5 years.

This is the same **** every year. He has a bad game and it's the same arguments. He has many good games and it's back on the bandwagon. Im sure they'll save you a seat.

It's not like that though. I think like you he will adapt. It was just surprising to see him behaving like a Bull in a china shop in the opening minutes. We're discussing what we want out of Melo. Don't frame it as being anti-anybody and you'll see that. Anyway, I'm optimistic about the team and about Melo doing well now too. I was surprised at how he played, but it really is just pre-season game # 1 so some concern is not the same as alarm. We're all on the same team here.

[CJackson]

Is it just me or is this kind of a long PG thread for the 1st preseason game of the season?

You guys so crazy

We are like the Golden State Warriors of NBA basketball internet forums

dakomish23 = Pachulia
CJackson = Draymond
Rotten Apple = Durant
Nazrmohammed = Klay
AmazingJason = Mutumbo

Yours has been Fixed

[thebuzzardman]

Is it just me or is this kind of a long PG thread for the 1st preseason game of the season?

You guys so crazy

We are like the Golden State Warriors of NBA basketball internet forums

dakomish23 = Pachulia
CJackson = Draymond
Rotten Apple = Durant
Nazrmohammed = Klay
AmazingJason = Mutumbo

Yours has been Fixed

I like to consider myself Javale McGee

[GettinitDone]

I like Minddawg - he's long, fast, agile, aggressive, smooth around the rim, can handle the rock, can run with or without the ball, can pass, can shoot, may be lethal on the break, he can post up, he got fundamental ball... typical european... I think he's gonna be our 6th man. He got his own rhythm, calm, relaxed, like a vet. He is vocal. Potential star. KP was genius find, Minddawg gonna put Phil on the map as exec.

Ron Baker >> ball boy, short hands, average skills, average everything, destined for cutdome

Holiday >> can shoot from outside, but likes to drive and kick, not sure if he can finish around the rim though

Willy >> can pick and definitely roll very well, has soft hands... big who can screen and box out, very valuable rotation player... can be even a starter.

Plumlee >> every year there's a Louis Admundson/ Tyler Hansbrough type of guy, but we already got the Louis Admundson, destined for cutdome

KP >> got Steph Curry quick release... the Steph Curry of 7 footers, mercy on the rest of NBA

Rose >> one of my faves since Memphis days... he works hard, plays hard, time for Gods of injuries to pick the lazy ones.

Melo >> fatter? and definitely wiser

N'Dour >> tough to assess... definitely active on defensive end... Phil missing on Jae Crowder, and he got us DeMarre Carroll's stunt man minus the offense

---

OT - I think the Rockets may have got something here... D'Antoni may be Harden's perfect coach... installing him at 1 is a genius because he always plays 1 anyway despite his "position". His passes are efficient and accurate, they added Anderson who's a killer from downtown ready to receive his passes, and Eric Gordon who can both shoot and slash, they got Trevor Ariza the glue guy who plays defense and a little bit of everything, Capella and Nene can provide some interior scoring... they gonna be high octane scoring team and tough to stop all season. Warriors showing success and winning a title playing run n gun only embolden them.

[ChilledAlex]

I like Minddawg - he's long, fast, agile, aggressive, smooth around the rim, can handle the rock, can run with or without the ball, can pass, can shoot, may be lethal on the break, he can post up, he got fundamental ball... typical european... I think he's gonna be our 6th man. He got his own rhythm, calm, relaxed, like a vet. He is vocal. Potential star. KP was genius find, Minddawg gonna put Phil on the map as exec.

Ron Baker >> ball boy, short hands, average skills, average everything, destined for cutdome

Holiday >> can shoot from outside, but likes to drive and kick, not sure if he can finish around the rim though

Willy >> can pick and definitely roll very well, has soft hands... big who can screen and box out, very valuable rotation player... can be even a starter.

Plumlee >> every year there's a Louis Admundson/ Tyler Hansbrough type of guy, but we already got the Louis Admundson, destined for cutdome

KP >> got Steph Curry quick release... the Steph Curry of 7 footers, mercy on the rest of NBA

Rose >> one of my faves since Memphis days... he works hard, plays hard, time for Gods of injuries to pick the lazy ones.

Melo >> fatter? and definitely wiser

N'Dour >> tough to assess... definitely active on defensive end... Phil missing on Jae Crowder, and he got us DeMarre Carroll's stunt man minus the offense

---

OT - I think the Rockets may have got something here... D'Antoni may be Harden's perfect coach... installing him at 1 is a genius because he always plays 1 anyway despite his "position". His passes are efficient and accurate, they added Anderson who's a killer from downtown ready to receive his passes, and Eric Gordon who can both shoot and slash, they got Trevor Ariza the glue guy who plays defense and a little bit of everything, Capella and Nene can provide some interior scoring... they gonna be high octane scoring team and tough to stop all season. Warriors showing success and winning a title playing run n gun only embolden them.

I agree about Cheese, but I wish Horny would play him atleast 20minutes against Nets to see him more.

[CJackson]

Is it just me or is this kind of a long PG thread for the 1st preseason game of the season?

You guys so crazy

We are like the Golden State Warriors of NBA basketball internet forums

dakomish23 = Pachulia
CJackson = Draymond
Rotten Apple = Durant
Nazrmohammed = Klay
AmazingJason = Mutumbo

Yours has been Fixed

I like to consider myself Javale McGee

And I've always thought I was kind of Manute Bol-ish

[HEZI]

Yours has been Fixed

I like to consider myself Javale McGee

And I've always thought I was kind of Manute Bol-ish

No I think AmazingJason was spot on, you are Draymond Green. Hated by many but valuable to the team

thebuzzardman is our Shaun Livingston

I guess that makes me Andre Iguodala

[K_ick_God]

Is it just me or is this kind of a long PG thread for the 1st preseason game of the season?

You guys so crazy

We are like the Golden State Warriors of NBA basketball internet forums

dakomish23 = Pachulia
CJackson = Draymond
Rotten Apple = Durant
Nazrmohammed = Klay
AmazingJason = Curry

[Governor Dudley]

I'm Todd Fuller.

[CJackson]

I like to consider myself Javale McGee

And I've always thought I was kind of Manute Bol-ish

No I think AmazingJason was spot on, you are Draymond Green. Hated by many but valuable to the team

thebuzzardman is our Shaun Livingston

I guess that makes me Andre Iguodala

in that case, protect your Minute Balls