Knicks not ruling out DRose extension later in the season

[dakomish23]

There are a lot factors involved. I think people still remember MVP Rose and let's face facts, he's not MVP Rose anymore. But he's better than any PG we've had in years. Will he put up a stinker? Sure. Just like everyone else in the League. There's something to be said about continuity. We've not had continuity in a while. As long as he can continue to evolve portions of his game to adapt to his weaknesses, I think we'll be alright.

Some of you all just complain to complain. We could have the second coming of Stockton out there and you'd all find something to complain about.

i don't think it's that simple. there was a point where he was missing a ton at the rim and trying to score with his head down. he seems now to be understanding better how to pick his spots, using his floater more and even passing better. if he continues to improve it'll be hard not to bring him back. so some people judged him early and they were right. but he looks better right now so we'll see what happens and how it goes from here.

He's def done a lot better the last 3 weeks

[DOT]

The main reason I think we should keep him is continuity, which is something we haven't had in a long time. People overlook this, but look at the Raptors. Every year they are able to overachieve their talent level (which I'm not saying they're bad, but they shouldn't be as good as they are) because their core of Lowry, DeRozan, and Valanciunas have been together for a long time, and Dwane Casey has been coaching there for 5 or 6 years

I don't get the "he's not a point guard he's a shooting guard" people

You know who else isn't a point guard?
2-time MVP and champion Steph Curry
Reigning champion Kyrie Irving
Triple Double machine Russell Westbrook

If Derrick can stay healthy this year, and continue to improve his game they way he has the last ten or so games, I would only not bring him back if we were guaranteed Chris Paul, and even then I'm still hesitant because his game should stay elite for a long time, he's always injured in the playoffs, and I really don't want to be paying someone 30 mil when they're 35

if Rose was anywhere near the caliber of those 3 players then it wouldn't be a problem...I'll admit that he's played well the last couple of games tho

Yeah, I wasn't trying to say he was at their level, just that you don't need a pure point guard to win anymore

[ZUDAMAGIC]

This guy is sick ^

[mpharris36]

There are a lot factors involved. I think people still remember MVP Rose and let's face facts, he's not MVP Rose anymore. But he's better than any PG we've had in years. Will he put up a stinker? Sure. Just like everyone else in the League. There's something to be said about continuity. We've not had continuity in a while. As long as he can continue to evolve portions of his game to adapt to his weaknesses, I think we'll be alright.

Some of you all just complain to complain. We could have the second coming of Stockton out there and you'd all find something to complain about.

i don't think it's that simple. there was a point where he was missing a ton at the rim and trying to score with his head down. he seems now to be understanding better how to pick his spots, using his floater more and even passing better. if he continues to improve it'll be hard not to bring him back. so some people judged him early and they were right. but he looks better right now so we'll see what happens and how it goes from here.

17-5-5 on almost 46% shooting from the field I think anyone would sign up for that. Obviously the key is him staying healthy it always has but he seems to be playing more under control and smarter since the beginning of the year. We also need to remember he didn't have pretty much an entire training camp and preseason with his new teammates. So for him to be making significant strides 20 games into the season is a huge positive.

I will obviously not rush to any decision even though I do understand the extension to limit the years on his contract. But I just want to see how he looks 40 games in then 60 games in before I make a true evaluation. But I do understand the team interest in bringing him back he's the best penetration guard since Marbury. It's so nice to be able to collapse the defense for once.

[Knicks_Fan2]

He's trending in the right direction right now. Using his ability to get to the hole to create for others. It's pretty amazing how he can just easily blow by any defender guarding him; a welcome departure from the last two years...

He's also ultra strong around the hoop, getting his own rebounds and tipping in for scores.

[dakomish23]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1478126&p=50366737#p50366737

Having some back and forth with the Trade Forum mods who made the Jose is better than DRose comments

[dakomish23]

Look - if you're gonna make a statistical argument, don't come in with that "you don't watch" crap. "You don't watch" should be accompanied with game discussion.

Rose was finding guys early. They just weren't hitting. KP, in particular, got a few good looks early but started out colder than a moose's tuckus on an Artic prairie. Rose took it upon himself and hit a bunch of shots that kept the game from getting out of hand. He had a good feel for what he needed to do. Then Melo returned and the Knicks began to build their lead.

Rose was fine tonight.

Every post I read of this guy is him here to tell us Rose is no good and, will be a negative and, we will regret him. It is agenda driven. Trollosh behavior IMO.

come back to this thread when we play a real team and you are all crying about rose

just because a players numbers *appear* efficient, does not mean he is good for the team.. he plays one way, his way

for the 2nd time, the knicks were up by about 6 or 7 before rose came out for jennings.. minutes later the knicks were up by 18.. midway through the game, rose came back in, committed at least 3 TOs that I can remember, and the lead was cut

oh BTW, again, for the third time, the kings are one of the worst teams in the league, the knicks had an 18 point lead at one point, and rose finished a MINUS 2, while Jennings a +10



there is no way anyone who knows the game of basketball can support the way this guy plays.. the only silver lining is he did look for his teammates more in the first, and down the stretch in the 4th, especially the 4th.. but if you honestly think he isn't going to revert back to his way 90% of the time, you are going to be very disappointed

and btw, he gives up far more than he gets





you guys will feel soooooooooo foolish when the knicks are not playing the worst teams in the league

and lol at posting fg% etc.. ITS HIS GAME!!! %'s mean nothing.. his game does not convert to a winning team! I am the one backing up facts while the homers just say "omg he looks so good", yet I am the troll?

he is among the worst starting players in the NBA, and again, please bump this thread when the knicks play teams .500 or above

Jennings is far far far far superior.. and he is the one that ballooned the lead, not Melo (to whoever tried saying that)

Anyone who knows basketball should know Jennings is mainly going against subs.

Jennings is the better passer, long range shooter and defender.

DRose is the better scorer.

I'm happy both are making an impact

[Flopper]

come back to this thread when we play a real team and you are all crying about rose

just because a players numbers *appear* efficient, does not mean he is good for the team.. he plays one way, his way

for the 2nd time, the knicks were up by about 6 or 7 before rose came out for jennings.. minutes later the knicks were up by 18.. midway through the game, rose came back in, committed at least 3 TOs that I can remember, and the lead was cut

oh BTW, again, for the third time, the kings are one of the worst teams in the league, the knicks had an 18 point lead at one point, and rose finished a MINUS 2, while Jennings a +10



there is no way anyone who knows the game of basketball can support the way this guy plays.. the only silver lining is he did look for his teammates more in the first, and down the stretch in the 4th, especially the 4th.. but if you honestly think he isn't going to revert back to his way 90% of the time, you are going to be very disappointed

and btw, he gives up far more than he gets





you guys will feel soooooooooo foolish when the knicks are not playing the worst teams in the league

and lol at posting fg% etc.. ITS HIS GAME!!! %'s mean nothing.. his game does not convert to a winning team! I am the one backing up facts while the homers just say "omg he looks so good", yet I am the troll?

he is among the worst starting players in the NBA, and again, please bump this thread when the knicks play teams .500 or above

Jennings is far far far far superior.. and he is the one that ballooned the lead, not Melo (to whoever tried saying that)

Guess you didn't see this:


The PER differential will probably look better once 82games performs another update.

[cmd1985]

Not taking a shot at anyone but what makes BJ a better defender than Rose? He's got at being pesky but Rose in the half court against better players seems a lot more formidable and he can cover some 2s as well.

[3toheadmelo]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1478126&p=50366737#p50366737

Having some back and forth with the Trade Forum mods who made the Jose is better than DRose comments

lol some of them really think sticking with Calderon was the better option.. uve got to be kidding me lol

[HEZI]

Not taking a shot at anyone but what makes BJ a better defender than Rose? He's got at being pesky but Rose in the half court against better players seems a lot more formidable and he can cover some 2s as well.

Jennings is not a better defender. Jennings is good at pressuring the ball handler up the court but that's about it. He gambles a lot and loves to reach around his defender but more often than not he allows guys to go around him. His defense inside the 3 point line is real real bad, he can't stay in front of his man once his man decides he wants to attack. Rose is a much better defender and can stay in front of the elite guards when they go into full attack mode and he knows how to cut off angles. He moves his body and his strength provides the proper resistance to not get bullied when guys attack him. Rose is also very good at timing shots and knowing when to contest his mans jumper. I don't know how many times I've seen him bother guys on their jump shot without fouling. He avoids body contact but gets just enough reach on the contest to almost get his fingers on the ball. I've been saying all year he's one of the best defenders on the team and the more I watch the rest of the league, he looks like one of the best 1 on 1 defenders in the entire league.

[K_ick_God]

The advanced stats don't tell you an entirely clear picture about Rose. He can get tough baskets in tough moments. That is impactful.

[Capn'O]

nykmentality is the greatest. his positivity and earnestness makes me smile every time.

and rose is playing better and better as the season progresses

Who are you and what have you done with the real shamm?

he is. he's just so positive that it makes me laugh. don't worry, i'm gonna keep making fun of him though.

Good. That .gif is short for "gift." And it is the holiday season.

[Capn'O]

There are a lot factors involved. I think people still remember MVP Rose and let's face facts, he's not MVP Rose anymore. But he's better than any PG we've had in years. Will he put up a stinker? Sure. Just like everyone else in the League. There's something to be said about continuity. We've not had continuity in a while. As long as he can continue to evolve portions of his game to adapt to his weaknesses, I think we'll be alright.

Some of you all just complain to complain. We could have the second coming of Stockton out there and you'd all find something to complain about.

i don't think it's that simple. there was a point where he was missing a ton at the rim and trying to score with his head down. he seems now to be understanding better how to pick his spots, using his floater more and even passing better. if he continues to improve it'll be hard not to bring him back. so some people judged him early and they were right. but he looks better right now so we'll see what happens and how it goes from here.

Yeah - he was awful until recently but it's like what I told those visiting mods. Those poor win share stats and what have you were a result of a style of play, which now could be argued to be a result of a player getting his reps in. Now, we didn't know that going into the year (whether after getting his reps in he'd eventually move to a more effective style of play) but that's what you have the expiring for. If it doesn't work out, year end, it's "Sorry, you suck. Bye." Ideally, anyway. His passing yesterday and vs. the Wolves was really encouraging.

'Remi's right that we're in No Man's Land at this point with him but there's really no rush to a decision. We have until June 30th to extend or renounce, the benefits and drawbacks of which then play out accordingly. In reality, we'll probably know what's sticking by February or March.

[3toheadmelo]

The advanced stats don't tell you an entirely clear picture about Rose. He can get tough baskets in tough moments. That is impactful.

Those shots are gonna be HUGE in the playoffs (if we make it )

[Jeff Van Gully]

There are a lot factors involved. I think people still remember MVP Rose and let's face facts, he's not MVP Rose anymore. But he's better than any PG we've had in years. Will he put up a stinker? Sure. Just like everyone else in the League. There's something to be said about continuity. We've not had continuity in a while. As long as he can continue to evolve portions of his game to adapt to his weaknesses, I think we'll be alright.

Some of you all just complain to complain. We could have the second coming of Stockton out there and you'd all find something to complain about.

i don't think it's that simple. there was a point where he was missing a ton at the rim and trying to score with his head down. he seems now to be understanding better how to pick his spots, using his floater more and even passing better. if he continues to improve it'll be hard not to bring him back. so some people judged him early and they were right. but he looks better right now so we'll see what happens and how it goes from here.

17-5-5 on almost 46% shooting from the field I think anyone would sign up for that. Obviously the key is him staying healthy it always has but he seems to be playing more under control and smarter since the beginning of the year. We also need to remember he didn't have pretty much an entire training camp and preseason with his new teammates. So for him to be making significant strides 20 games into the season is a huge positive.

I will obviously not rush to any decision even though I do understand the extension to limit the years on his contract. But I just want to see how he looks 40 games in then 60 games in before I make a true evaluation. But I do understand the team interest in bringing him back he's the best penetration guard since Marbury. It's so nice to be able to collapse the defense for once.

that's why he hasn't yet been extended, but also why an extension hasn't been ruled out. it's an ongoing evaluation.

long-term has huge risk with rose. you would think if they extend him, that risk is incorporated into the price. he's not a max cat, but i wouldn't mind keeping him on the roster. the question is, what is the appropriate market value for him at this point in his career?

[Jeff Van Gully]

The advanced stats don't tell you an entirely clear picture about Rose. He can get tough baskets in tough moments. That is impactful.

Those shots are gonna be HUGE in the playoffs (if we make it )

no metric for that. winning time baskets don't happen on a spreadsheet.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Every post I read of this guy is him here to tell us Rose is no good and, will be a negative and, we will regret him. It is agenda driven. Trollosh behavior IMO.

come back to this thread when we play a real team and you are all crying about rose

just because a players numbers *appear* efficient, does not mean he is good for the team.. he plays one way, his way

for the 2nd time, the knicks were up by about 6 or 7 before rose came out for jennings.. minutes later the knicks were up by 18.. midway through the game, rose came back in, committed at least 3 TOs that I can remember, and the lead was cut

oh BTW, again, for the third time, the kings are one of the worst teams in the league, the knicks had an 18 point lead at one point, and rose finished a MINUS 2, while Jennings a +10



there is no way anyone who knows the game of basketball can support the way this guy plays.. the only silver lining is he did look for his teammates more in the first, and down the stretch in the 4th, especially the 4th.. but if you honestly think he isn't going to revert back to his way 90% of the time, you are going to be very disappointed

and btw, he gives up far more than he gets





you guys will feel soooooooooo foolish when the knicks are not playing the worst teams in the league

and lol at posting fg% etc.. ITS HIS GAME!!! %'s mean nothing.. his game does not convert to a winning team! I am the one backing up facts while the homers just say "omg he looks so good", yet I am the troll?

he is among the worst starting players in the NBA, and again, please bump this thread when the knicks play teams .500 or above

Jennings is far far far far superior.. and he is the one that ballooned the lead, not Melo (to whoever tried saying that)

Anyone who knows basketball should know Jennings is mainly going against subs.

Jennings is the better passer, long range shooter and defender.

DRose is the better scorer.

I'm happy both are making an impact

this: i like what they bring to the position combined. and, i like when they play alongside each other. i'm not mad at really any position on this team. all kind of solid in production and depth.

the whole just needs to continue being greater than the sum of its parts.

[Rotten Apple]

I'd offer him 3yrs/65 Mil right now with a team option for year 3.

He gets a slight raise on his current salary, 40+ Million guaranteed and we have some more cap space to work with this off season to add another piece.

[Flopper]

Not taking a shot at anyone but what makes BJ a better defender than Rose? He's got at being pesky but Rose in the half court against better players seems a lot more formidable and he can cover some 2s as well.

Jennings is not a better defender. Jennings is good at pressuring the ball handler up the court but that's about it. He gambles a lot and loves to reach around his defender but more often than not he allows guys to go around him. His defense inside the 3 point line is real real bad, he can't stay in front of his man once his man decides he wants to attack. Rose is a much better defender and can stay in front of the elite guards when they go into full attack mode and he knows how to cut off angles. He moves his body and his strength provides the proper resistance to not get bullied when guys attack him. Rose is also very good at timing shots and knowing when to contest his mans jumper. I don't know how many times I've seen him bother guys on their jump shot without fouling. He avoids body contact but gets just enough reach on the contest to almost get his fingers on the ball. I've been saying all year he's one of the best defenders on the team and the more I watch the rest of the league, he looks like one of the best 1 on 1 defenders in the entire league.

There's intrinsic value with having a size and strength advantage on the defensive end even if the player in question isn't the most savvy of defenders. Despite all the injuries Rose still matches up favorably with nearly every PG in the league, which is a nice asset to have in the regular season against the elite teams and in the post-season.