Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player

[nedleeds]

"Look at the impact on winning" - Thibs

... we're 14-16 in the awful East and haven't lost one player game to Covid this year. Is Thibs praising Randle or criticizing him?

[br7knicks]

I mean even the inside the NBA crew on TNT unanimously voted Randle as an all star.. I’d say that bodes well for his chances

That's what I'm saying. Those guys, and all of the other analysts, would point out how bad randle was last year. It was too obvious.

But he's getting the recognition now because he's changed and playing completely different from last year

[Gravy]

"Look at the impact on winning" - Thibs

... we're 14-16 in the awful East and haven't lost one player game to Covid this year. Is Thibs praising Randle or criticizing him?

Huh? Definitely praise because without Randle we would be something like 7-23.

[dakomish23]

The only team the last 30 years to win a title without a lottery pick in their starting 5 are the Raptors, and they got the player that helped them do it by trading two former lottery picks.


Title teams are littered with high picks, the Raptors are the only exception to that rule. You draft in the lottery and you get franchise players more often than you do anywhere else. You draft in the top 5 and you are more likely to draft a HOFer than anywhere else, this isn't rocket science.

Seems simple enough to me. I’m not even rooting for the tank (PTKLWTR) but the legends are mostly top 5 guys.

Make a list of all time greats 1-25 and you’re going to see 80% all top 5 picks. Maybe even higher.

Until you get to Pippen, Stockton, Malone, Rodman ... sure most of the all time greats go top 5 but they have to be all time greats.

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Incorrect

Spoiler:

The only team the last 30 years to win a title without a lottery pick in their starting 5 are the Raptors, and they got the player that helped them do it by trading two former lottery picks.


Title teams are littered with high picks, the Raptors are the only exception to that rule. You draft in the lottery and you get franchise players more often than you do anywhere else. You draft in the top 5 and you are more likely to draft a HOFer than anywhere else, this isn't rocket science.

Seems simple enough to me. I’m not even rooting for the tank (PTKLWTR) but the legends are mostly top 5 guys.

Make a list of all time greats 1-25 and you’re going to see 80% all top 5 picks. Maybe even higher.

Until you get to Pippen, Stockton, Malone, Rodman ... sure most of the all time greats go top 5 but they have to be all time greats.

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Here’s where I entered. There’s my original comment.

Show me how that equates to you saying I need to show who’s an all time great in this draft / I have to defend trading Randle

You are asking for things that have nothing to do what I said. My comment was strictly on downplaying draft position at all. It’s not about this draft or this year.

I asked to see your top 25 b/c you mentioned Rodman. It was literally just to see your list.

[nedleeds]

"Look at the impact on winning" - Thibs

... we're 14-16 in the awful East and haven't lost one player game to Covid this year. Is Thibs praising Randle or criticizing him?

Huh? Definitely praise because without Randle we would be something like 7-23.

And wouldn't that be fantastic. But the spin out of MSG is so nauseating, 14-16 couched as winning is pure spin. The Knicks haven't lost 1 man game to covid and still aren't .500. Randle as your cornerstone gets you nowhere, that's why he isn't a cornerstone. A cornerstone is at least an all-NBA player, he's not. He's a 4th option or a 6th man on a good team. On a bad team he can't get you to .500 in a woeful conference.

[FutureKnicksGM]

Me saying he wasn't terrible was being nice. He got his and he could play well enough but...he SUCKED when it came to the team. He wouldn't pass. Couldn't shoot the three. Turned the ball over in spin cycle mode quarter after quarter... game after game. That's a fact. I don't care what the reasons/excuses are for how he played. He got his and it hurt the team. There are valid reasons why a lot of people here wanted him gone. He played NOTHING like this season last year.

If you think he was good player for us... you're lying or you must have stopped watching for a year.

Those reasons you don't care about, are legit reasons that can help player perform better and teams play better basketball. Like we are literally seeing right now.

So Randle has gone from completely sucking to an all star caliber player? No.

He had a horrific start from 3 (8%) in the first month, last year but was trending back in the right direction, shooting 39% post all star break.

Of course he can pass, he has 6 triple doubles before he came to NY, and they ain't from blocking shots.

Pretty sure MJ and Lebron have used the spin move before too

A game under Miller below.

Watch on YouTube

Yep Randle was a lot better under Miller

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Going from complete trash to an allstar. Melo you must be a prophet to have seen this miraculous conversion coming, that is mind blowing to so many.

[3toheadmelo]

Knicks being the 7th seed right now is why Randle is getting praised a lot by players, Thibs and the media. We were projected to only win like 17 games this season. The amount of carrying he’s doing on this roster is insane.

[Gravy]

"Look at the impact on winning" - Thibs

... we're 14-16 in the awful East and haven't lost one player game to Covid this year. Is Thibs praising Randle or criticizing him?

Huh? Definitely praise because without Randle we would be something like 7-23.

And wouldn't that be fantastic. But the spin out of MSG is so nauseating, 14-16 couched as winning is pure spin. The Knicks haven't lost 1 man game to covid and still aren't .500. Randle as your cornerstone gets you nowhere, that's why he isn't a cornerstone. A cornerstone is at least an all-NBA player, he's not. He's a 4th option or a 6th man on a good team. On a bad team he can't get you to .500 in a woeful conference.

Moving goalposts, you asked if Thibs was trashing Randle lol

[FutureKnicksGM]

Me saying he wasn't terrible was being nice. He got his and he could play well enough but...he SUCKED when it came to the team. He wouldn't pass. Couldn't shoot the three. Turned the ball over in spin cycle mode quarter after quarter... game after game. That's a fact. I don't care what the reasons/excuses are for how he played. He got his and it hurt the team. There are valid reasons why a lot of people here wanted him gone. He played NOTHING like this season last year.

If you think he was good player for us... you're lying or you must have stopped watching for a year.

I think it's fair to say that everyone sees what they want to see.

Goes for me, and everyone.

The truth and evidence is there in the game footage

Agreed. The other side of it is...we did have terrible coaching at first last year. Then we didn't really have much better under Miller but there was improvement. Randle was just doing what was asked of him with no real direction. This season....Thibs has him doing...basically what fiz was talking about to a point.....but much better and playing better defense. Night and day.

That's where the line is. People who support Randle feel the need to ignore what he actually played like and...have issues with people who didn't like the way he played last season. As if we are wrong about it.

No, people on the other side of the 'line', who have been proven to be absolutely wrong, feel the need to justify why they were so wrong previously, and ignoring all basketball logic in the process.

[3toheadmelo]

Those reasons you don't care about, are legit reasons that can help player perform better and teams play better basketball. Like we are literally seeing right now.

So Randle has gone from completely sucking to an all star caliber player? No.

He had a horrific start from 3 (8%) in the first month, last year but was trending back in the right direction, shooting 39% post all star break.

Of course he can pass, he has 6 triple doubles before he came to NY, and they ain't from blocking shots.

Pretty sure MJ and Lebron have used the spin move before too

A game under Miller below.

Watch on YouTube

Yep Randle was a lot better under Miller

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Going from complete trash to an allstar. Melo you must be a prophet to have seen this miraculous conversion coming, that is mind blowing to so many.

He was looking like the Pelicans version of him under Miller. I don’t know what other people were watching but it’s not surprising at all to me at least he’s playing like an all star. He always had this potential in my eyes

[nedleeds]

Huh? Definitely praise because without Randle we would be something like 7-23.

And wouldn't that be fantastic. But the spin out of MSG is so nauseating, 14-16 couched as winning is pure spin. The Knicks haven't lost 1 man game to covid and still aren't .500. Randle as your cornerstone gets you nowhere, that's why he isn't a cornerstone. A cornerstone is at least an all-NBA player, he's not. He's a 4th option or a 6th man on a good team. On a bad team he can't get you to .500 in a woeful conference.

Moving goalposts, you asked if Thibs was trashing Randle lol

Thread title is "Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player". I'm saying the MSG cabal is trying to spin 14-16 as winning, when it literally is a losing record to push the false narrative that he's a 'cornerstone' player. It's fox/cnn level BS, I can't believe people are falling for it.

If other GMs are falling for it that would be great, but if the organization truly believes being below .500 and as many games from last as first is 'winning' there is no hope. They won't trade him for value (if he has any), and he'll get his max and at the rate Thibs is playing him his back will explode or something Knicks.

[br7knicks]

It's not that he was playing great last year. The argument was or at least should ne that the fans needed ti be patient as he learned a new role under a coach that gave him all the rope in the world tp figure it out.

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i think a lot of us fans would've been on board with randle, last year, if he learned from his mistakes and stopped making poor decisions as often as he did each game last season.

it's a lot like knox. knox started his career poorly, but never seemed to want to fix his mistakes. that's what randle was like. when players look to fix their mistakes, and play smarter and better, it's easier to root for them. hence why randle is easy to root for this season.


but having thibs instead of fiz has definitely helped randle. i'm hoping he continues this style and level of play and the knicks pick him up next year. i actually am more on board with not trading randle at this point, short of acquiring a top 3 pick in the draft this year.

other than a few lapses in judgements in games, he has played amazingly, and has been fun to watch. overall, it'd be silly for any knicks fan to want to move randle for anything short of future top draft picks (if that's the route you want to take).


as much as i'm on board with building for the future, i think randle as a cornerstone is a good idea, IF he continues to play like this and NOT like randle from last year.

The difference between Fiz and Thibs is Thibs is a dad coach while Fiz is a brother coach. Thibs will demand where Fiz will suggest and let ypu figure it out.

That works if you're Lebron not if you're Randle. Fiz was alsonrebounding from being losing his Memphis lockerroom whereas Thibs has never given a crap about that.

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Yeah, I'd agree with that.

His **** play wasn't entirely his fault at all. I think you can also say the majority of the blame was on fiz.

But it's quite well known that randle was really bad last year. Tough to ignore that.

But even tougher to ignore how much better he is this year. He is proving to be a cornerstone

[Gravy]

And wouldn't that be fantastic. But the spin out of MSG is so nauseating, 14-16 couched as winning is pure spin. The Knicks haven't lost 1 man game to covid and still aren't .500. Randle as your cornerstone gets you nowhere, that's why he isn't a cornerstone. A cornerstone is at least an all-NBA player, he's not. He's a 4th option or a 6th man on a good team. On a bad team he can't get you to .500 in a woeful conference.

Moving goalposts, you asked if Thibs was trashing Randle lol

Thread title is "Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player". I'm saying the MSG cabal is trying to spin 14-16 as winning, when it literally is a losing record to push the false narrative that he's a 'cornerstone' player. It's fox/cnn level BS, I can't believe people are falling for it.

If other GMs are falling for it that would be great, but if the organization truly believes being below .500 and as many games from last as first is 'winning' there is no hope. They won't trade him for value (if he has any), and he'll get his max and at the rate Thibs is playing him his back will explode or something Knicks.

Well its true that Randle is not as good a Lebron. He cant carry a group of bums and zero offense players to the finals all by himself. I guess teams with players like Doncic, Trae, Zion, Fox, Ja, KAT, Bam, Lavine, Sexton should get of those guys too since they also have a losing record and its all those players fault.

Could we expand it to teams that are only a game or two over .500? Get rid of losers like Jokic, Muray, Sabonis, Siakam, Tatum, Brown, Curry etc

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Moving goalposts, you asked if Thibs was trashing Randle lol

Thread title is "Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player". I'm saying the MSG cabal is trying to spin 14-16 as winning, when it literally is a losing record to push the false narrative that he's a 'cornerstone' player. It's fox/cnn level BS, I can't believe people are falling for it.

If other GMs are falling for it that would be great, but if the organization truly believes being below .500 and as many games from last as first is 'winning' there is no hope. They won't trade him for value (if he has any), and he'll get his max and at the rate Thibs is playing him his back will explode or something Knicks.

Well its true that Randle is not as good a Lebron. He cant carry a group of bums and zero offense players to the finals all by himself. I guess teams with players like Doncic, Trae, Zion, Fox, Ja, KAT, Bam, Lavine, Sexton should get of those guys too since they also have a losing record and its all those players fault.

Could we expand it to teams that are only a game or two over .500? Get rid of losers like Jokic, Muray, Sabonis, Siakam, Tatum, Brown, Curry etc

This is a pretty dishonest argument

Julius has never been on a winning team, he's been in the league longer than everyone in that first list that you named except for LaVine, and the 2nd group of guys have all been the main cogs or secondary players on teams that have experienced far more success than Julius.


Anyone that wants Julius to be an all-star, I hope you're also ready to live with what he asks for on his next contract, because he'll be an all-star and all-stars get paid. I don't want to see any complaining about him not being worth the max if it comes to that.

[prophet_of_rage]

"Look at the impact on winning" - Thibs

... we're 14-16 in the awful East and haven't lost one player game to Covid this year. Is Thibs praising Randle or criticizing him?

Tou think we even have 14 wins without him? I wonder ehat Chanel has to say about this statement? Is Thibs as big a loser as Payton?

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[Fury]

"Look at the impact on winning" - Thibs

... we're 14-16 in the awful East and haven't lost one player game to Covid this year. Is Thibs praising Randle or criticizing him?

Huh? Definitely praise because without Randle we would be something like 7-23.

And wouldn't that be fantastic. But the spin out of MSG is so nauseating, 14-16 couched as winning is pure spin. The Knicks haven't lost 1 man game to covid and still aren't .500. Randle as your cornerstone gets you nowhere, that's why he isn't a cornerstone. A cornerstone is at least an all-NBA player, he's not. He's a 4th option or a 6th man on a good team. On a bad team he can't get you to .500 in a woeful conference.

How many games did the Knicks win last year? And what spot did you have them going into this year?

[3toheadmelo]

Thread title is "Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player". I'm saying the MSG cabal is trying to spin 14-16 as winning, when it literally is a losing record to push the false narrative that he's a 'cornerstone' player. It's fox/cnn level BS, I can't believe people are falling for it.

If other GMs are falling for it that would be great, but if the organization truly believes being below .500 and as many games from last as first is 'winning' there is no hope. They won't trade him for value (if he has any), and he'll get his max and at the rate Thibs is playing him his back will explode or something Knicks.

Well its true that Randle is not as good a Lebron. He cant carry a group of bums and zero offense players to the finals all by himself. I guess teams with players like Doncic, Trae, Zion, Fox, Ja, KAT, Bam, Lavine, Sexton should get of those guys too since they also have a losing record and its all those players fault.

Could we expand it to teams that are only a game or two over .500? Get rid of losers like Jokic, Muray, Sabonis, Siakam, Tatum, Brown, Curry etc

This is a pretty dishonest argument

Julius has never been on a winning team, he's been in the league longer than everyone in that first list that you named except for LaVine, and the 2nd group of guys have all been the main cogs or secondary players on teams that have experienced far more success than Julius.


Anyone that wants Julius to be an all-star, I hope you're also ready to live with what he asks for on his next contract, because he'll be an all-star and all-stars get paid. I don't want to see any complaining about him not being worth the max if it comes to that.

You’re on Randle moratorium for another 4 games sir.

[prophet_of_rage]

Seems simple enough to me. I’m not even rooting for the tank (PTKLWTR) but the legends are mostly top 5 guys.

Make a list of all time greats 1-25 and you’re going to see 80% all top 5 picks. Maybe even higher.

Until you get to Pippen, Stockton, Malone, Rodman ... sure most of the all time greats go top 5 but they have to be all time greats.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Incorrect

Spoiler:

Seems simple enough to me. I’m not even rooting for the tank (PTKLWTR) but the legends are mostly top 5 guys.

Make a list of all time greats 1-25 and you’re going to see 80% all top 5 picks. Maybe even higher.

Until you get to Pippen, Stockton, Malone, Rodman ... sure most of the all time greats go top 5 but they have to be all time greats.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Here’s where I entered. There’s my original comment.

Show me how that equates to you saying I need to show who’s an all time great in this draft / I have to defend trading Randle

You are asking for things that have nothing to do what I said. My comment was strictly on downplaying draft position at all. It’s not about this draft or this year.

I asked to see your top 25 b/c you mentioned Rodman. It was literally just to see your list.

All right. Then we'll leave it at that. It seemed more a challenge than curiosity but we're just reading text so I can say I misinterpreted it based on the discourse at the time.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[prophet_of_rage]

Moving goalposts, you asked if Thibs was trashing Randle lol

Thread title is "Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player". I'm saying the MSG cabal is trying to spin 14-16 as winning, when it literally is a losing record to push the false narrative that he's a 'cornerstone' player. It's fox/cnn level BS, I can't believe people are falling for it.

If other GMs are falling for it that would be great, but if the organization truly believes being below .500 and as many games from last as first is 'winning' there is no hope. They won't trade him for value (if he has any), and he'll get his max and at the rate Thibs is playing him his back will explode or something Knicks.

Well its true that Randle is not as good a Lebron. He cant carry a group of bums and zero offense players to the finals all by himself. I guess teams with players like Doncic, Trae, Zion, Fox, Ja, KAT, Bam, Lavine, Sexton should get of those guys too since they also have a losing record and its all those players fault.

Could we expand it to teams that are only a game or two over .500? Get rid of losers like Jokic, Muray, Sabonis, Siakam, Tatum, Brown, Curry etc

Tank for eternity!

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[nedleeds]

Moving goalposts, you asked if Thibs was trashing Randle lol

Thread title is "Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player". I'm saying the MSG cabal is trying to spin 14-16 as winning, when it literally is a losing record to push the false narrative that he's a 'cornerstone' player. It's fox/cnn level BS, I can't believe people are falling for it.

If other GMs are falling for it that would be great, but if the organization truly believes being below .500 and as many games from last as first is 'winning' there is no hope. They won't trade him for value (if he has any), and he'll get his max and at the rate Thibs is playing him his back will explode or something Knicks.

Well its true that Randle is not as good a Lebron. He cant carry a group of bums and zero offense players to the finals all by himself. I guess teams with players like Doncic, Trae, Zion, Fox, Ja, KAT, Bam, Lavine, Sexton should get of those guys too since they also have a losing record and its all those players fault.

What? These are dudes that have I don't know ... made the playoffs? made an All NBA team? Randle has never sniffed the playoffs. He's not a 'cornerstone' of anything. Lumping Colin Sexton and Lavine in with Luka and Bam is borderline deranged. Even more strange is you list a bunch of players 4-5 years younger than Randle. If Randle was 22 and playing like this, then sure, but he's 26. He'll be 28 in the first year of whatever cap killing contract they hand him after next year.

Could we expand it to teams that are only a game or two over .500? Get rid of losers like Jokic, Muray, Sabonis, Siakam, Tatum, Brown, Curry etc

Well. Those players all made the playoffs, once, or more. Most on that list have made the conference finals or won titles and been the best or second best players on those teams. At age 24 Randle played with A.D., Jrue Holiday and didn't make the playoffs. Thanks for cementing and listing players far better than him at younger ages.