post game - that sucked

[DaGawd]

There have been so many crazy circumstances, and games lost by opponents early when we had no covid absences at the start of the year. We hit a bunch of teams who just didn't play their players (Bucks), Trae sprains his ankle and we come back to win a key head to head. So much opponents bad shooting luck this year. I think we're a very fake 4-5 seed. Now the injury luck isn't going our way with Mitch, now Quickly and Burks. In a normal 82 game season assuming Randle and RJs progress was the same I think we'd be lucky to be an 8th seed in the East.

This is a really stupid take

What isn't true?

This is a bad take

[F N 11]

Joe Budden that dude that want to hold everybody back because he getting all the paper. then again it is Joe Budden Podcast so....

edit: This is beef over Petty crap and Joe is right. No petty immature crap comes before the bag.

[3toheadmelo]

i may go at frank a lot but I do want to see him do well. he’s fun to watch when he plays with confidence and makes us a better team

[prophet_of_rage]

Thibs needs to be more creative offensively. Our crunch time offense needs to be more than "Julius, make a play"

This is our whole system. Julius, Derrick make a play. Mitch, Nerves block a shot.

It's why he only plays but so many guys.

I wonder what he learned during his sabbatical and watching the Warriors. It certainly wasn't motion offence.

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Yes, this Knick team is so laden with offensive studs they should be leading the league in scoring.

Or you know just have a motion offence that emphasizes ball movement and body movement.

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[nedleeds]

Don't understand the last sentence?

There have been so many crazy circumstances, and games lost by opponents early when we had no covid absences at the start of the year. We hit a bunch of teams who just didn't play their players (Bucks), Trae sprains his ankle and we come back to win a key head to head. So much opponents bad shooting luck this year. I think we're a very fake 4-5 seed. Now the injury luck isn't going our way with Mitch, now Quickly and Burks. In a normal 82 game season assuming Randle and RJs progress was the same I think we'd be lucky to be an 8th seed in the East.

And what about all the close games we should have won but didn't. Calls that didn't go our way.

We beat some of the best teams this season. This narrative that we're not tested or being a great team is some type of facade is ridiculous. Look no further than last night. We punched the Lakers in they **** mouth in their home court. Yet another game we should have won that goes against your argument.

I promise u there's not a team in this **** league that thinks we're a fake team by any stretch. Any team that takes us lightly would get **** scraped.

Our road record is bad. Our opponent shooting luck is the most fortunate in the league. We punched a LeBron less Laker's team in the mouth and hurt our hand. Why "should we have won" this game last night? If they had LeBron and Schroeder we lose by 15. If we had Mitch maybe we get 5-6 points back?

We are 0-9 vs. the 76ers, Heat and Brooklyn. I am a Knicks fan but you're kind of kidding yourself if you think this is a "great team". Unless your definition of "great team" is a slightly below .500 team in a weak East that would crawl into the 8th seed in a normal season.

[Chanel Bomber]

Thibs cost us that OT with the pointless timeout. And why tf did he switch Frankie on defense for offense at the end of regulation. Made no sense.

Frank has been a liability at the end of games defensively this season because he's always committed shooting fouls by being overaggressive when he got the opportunity to play in crunch time. So he hasn't exactly proven that he has the discipline to be a plus on defense down the stretch. He too easily gets baited into fouls.

And Thibs put him in the game on O because he was hitting his 3s while RJ wasn't.

With RJ having played so many minutes lately, and Frank balling last night, I think Thibs should've taken the opportunity to rest RJ and let Frank play in the 4th and overtime. But it is what it is.

[Knicksfan1992]

There have been so many crazy circumstances, and games lost by opponents early when we had no covid absences at the start of the year. We hit a bunch of teams who just didn't play their players (Bucks), Trae sprains his ankle and we come back to win a key head to head. So much opponents bad shooting luck this year. I think we're a very fake 4-5 seed. Now the injury luck isn't going our way with Mitch, now Quickly and Burks. In a normal 82 game season assuming Randle and RJs progress was the same I think we'd be lucky to be an 8th seed in the East.

This is a really stupid take

What isn't true?

About 99.9% of what you said

Knicks lost a bunch of close games too. I don't see you bringing up those as sign of bad luck... Their net rating is top 10 in the league. They are performing in line with what they should be expected to do. If anything them being the 6 seed is more bad luck than good luck considering they are performing a whole 2.5 points better than the Heat per 100 possessions and yet the Heat are outperforming their expectations given that and have a higher record than they really should.

So stop with the fuqqing cap to push your BS agenda that has no facts to it other than to just troll and contribute to the chit storm here.

[prophet_of_rage]

But in a game decided by 6 points or fewer that's on coaching. 10 points or more is on the players. 7-9 you just lost.

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as if there's an exact mathematical formula on losing games. any time a player has a wide open shot to win a game and misses, it's coaching ? is that right ?

It's a philosophy. Basketball was about philosophies before it was about analytics.

A coach's job is to put you in the best position to win. Once the game is two possessions then yes you can scrutinize coaching. It may not be that last play but something that happened in the game that ended up being costly.

In a blowout the players clearly aren't ready to play.

And in the middle well one team was just better.

But go ahead and blame RJ if you need to for having to take a shot over three people.

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[Knicksfan1992]

People wanna claim "luck" as a reason for success and blatantly ignore it as a reason for failure as well.

People really need to learn the definition of confirmation bias and know that luck is a 2 way street

Fun exercise:

The Heat have a net rating of -0.3 and have the same record as the Knicks who have a net rating of +2.3.

Who is the luckier team?

[prophet_of_rage]

Yeah people have this like Coach Carter fantasy that the coach draws up a magical play that gets you the perfect shot but 95 times out of 100 it doesn't work like that lol.

I think Thibs thought he had enough time to cause rotation on the defense to get Julius attacking a scrambling defense or if Rose could get his push shot off in P&R then he would live with it and hope Taj could get another opp if he missed. Timing was off and Rose shouldn't have picked up his dribble. Then gave it to RJ in a tough spot. Is what it is.

It's not Coach Carter fantasy. That play was fine. It was just poorly executed. Thibs over relies on one on one creation and one on one rim protection throughout the game.

But in a game decided by 6 points or fewer that's on coaching. 10 points or more is on the players. 7-9 you just lost.

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Is it over-reliance or him coaching to the personnel he's given? I'm leaning towards the latter as I think any reasonable person would suggest because blaming this game on Thibs is pure madness to me lol. The only thing you can really ding him for is Payton which I don't feel like beating a dead horse about...

Thibs has been using similar systems his whole tenure. The stagnation and iso ball down the stretch doesn't have to be. You can be more creative.

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[HarthorneWingo]

I found Thibs’s substitutions with Frank, RJ, and Bullock at the end of regulation and in OT to be head scratchers. I could t make any sense of them.

Frank is in for offense but then gets taken out in favor of RJ for defense? Sometimes you just gotta ride the hot hand. It’s like a Thibs has to fight himself in order to deviate from his normal rotation/substitution pattern.

[god shammgod]

But in a game decided by 6 points or fewer that's on coaching. 10 points or more is on the players. 7-9 you just lost.

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as if there's an exact mathematical formula on losing games. any time a player has a wide open shot to win a game and misses, it's coaching ? is that right ?

It's a philosophy. Basketball was about philosophies before it was about analytics.

A coach's job is to put you in the best position to win. Once the game is two possessions then yes you can scrutinize coaching. It may not be that last play but something that happened in the game that ended up being costly.

In a blowout the players clearly aren't ready to play.

And in the middle well one team was just better.

But go ahead and blame RJ if you need to for having to take a shot over three people.

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i'm not talking about rj now, i'm talking about the ridiculous idea that losing by 6 points is coaching but losing by 1 more point isn't coaching as if there isn't a responsibility in all outcomes on both coaching and the players.

[snadler]

I am as critical towards the knicks as anyone here, but one thing I won't take away from them is the defense that this team plays, on a nightly basis, yes they are very flawed, but the effort, and intensity on the defensive end is arguably the best in the league. So sure you can say they've been lucky, but as they say, it's better to be lucky than good. But this team defensively is very good, just ask the clippers

[HarthorneWingo]

as if there's an exact mathematical formula on losing games. any time a player has a wide open shot to win a game and misses, it's coaching ? is that right ?

It's a philosophy. Basketball was about philosophies before it was about analytics.

A coach's job is to put you in the best position to win. Once the game is two possessions then yes you can scrutinize coaching. It may not be that last play but something that happened in the game that ended up being costly.

In a blowout the players clearly aren't ready to play.

And in the middle well one team was just better.

But go ahead and blame RJ if you need to for having to take a shot over three people.

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i'm not talking about rj now, i'm talking about the ridiculous idea that losing by 6 points is coaching but losing by 1 more point isn't coaching as if there isn't a responsibility in all outcomes on both coaching and the players.

Prophet of Rage, are you just going to let shammgod have the last word on this?

[nedleeds]

This is a really stupid take

What isn't true?

About 99.9% of what you said

Knicks lost a bunch of close games too. I don't see you bringing up those as sign of bad luck... Their net rating is top 10 in the league. They are performing in line with what they should be expected to do. If anything them being the 6 seed is more bad luck than good luck considering they are performing a whole 2.5 points better than the Heat per 100 possessions and yet the Heat are outperforming their expectations given that and have a higher record than they really should.

So stop with the fuqqing cap to push your BS agenda that has no facts to it other than to just troll and contribute to the chit storm here.

Our road record is bad. Our opponent shooting luck is the most fortunate in the league. We punched a LeBron less Laker's team in the mouth and hurt our hand. Why "should we have won" this game last night? If they had LeBron and Schroeder we lose by 15. If we had Mitch maybe we get 5-6 points back?

We are 0-9 vs. the 76ers, Heat and Brooklyn. I am a Knicks fan but you're kind of kidding yourself if you think this is a "great team". Unless your definition of "great team" is a slightly below .500 team in a weak East that would crawl into the 8th seed in a normal season.

[Knicksfan1992]

I am as critical towards the knicks as anyone here, but one thing I won't take away from them is the defense that this team plays, on a nightly basis, yes they are very flawed, but the effort, and intensity on the defensive end is arguably the best in the league. So sure you can say they've been lucky, but as they say, it's better to be lucky than good. But this team defensively is very good, just ask the clippers

Based on most factors the Knicks haven't been lucky though. That was a stupid narrative made at the beginning of the season based on matchup data that is known to be janky...

Based on most predictive stats the Knicks are actually pretty unlucky to be the 6th seed. Net Rating, SRS, elo rating, etc..

[god shammgod]

It's a philosophy. Basketball was about philosophies before it was about analytics.

A coach's job is to put you in the best position to win. Once the game is two possessions then yes you can scrutinize coaching. It may not be that last play but something that happened in the game that ended up being costly.

In a blowout the players clearly aren't ready to play.

And in the middle well one team was just better.

But go ahead and blame RJ if you need to for having to take a shot over three people.

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i'm not talking about rj now, i'm talking about the ridiculous idea that losing by 6 points is coaching but losing by 1 more point isn't coaching as if there isn't a responsibility in all outcomes on both coaching and the players.

Prophet of Rage, are you just going to let shammgod have the last word on this?

i'm just saying, you can't put exact numbers on this kind of thing. it's illogical. sometimes a team loses by 10 and it's more coaching, it's never all one thing, and sometimes it's a 2/3 point loss and it's because one guy made a shot and the other one didn't.

[Appleshampoo]

What isn't true?

About 99.9% of what you said

Knicks lost a bunch of close games too. I don't see you bringing up those as sign of bad luck... Their net rating is top 10 in the league. They are performing in line with what they should be expected to do. If anything them being the 6 seed is more bad luck than good luck considering they are performing a whole 2.5 points better than the Heat per 100 possessions and yet the Heat are outperforming their expectations given that and have a higher record than they really should.

So stop with the fuqqing cap to push your BS agenda that has no facts to it other than to just troll and contribute to the chit storm here.

Our road record is bad. Our opponent shooting luck is the most fortunate in the league. We punched a LeBron less Laker's team in the mouth and hurt our hand. Why "should we have won" this game last night? If they had LeBron and Schroeder we lose by 15. If we had Mitch maybe we get 5-6 points back?

We are 0-9 vs. the 76ers, Heat and Brooklyn. I am a Knicks fan but you're kind of kidding yourself if you think this is a "great team". Unless your definition of "great team" is a slightly below .500 team in a weak East that would crawl into the 8th seed in a normal season.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

This is a great team considering the expectations and development.

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[Knicksfan1992]

What isn't true?

About 99.9% of what you said

Knicks lost a bunch of close games too. I don't see you bringing up those as sign of bad luck... Their net rating is top 10 in the league. They are performing in line with what they should be expected to do. If anything them being the 6 seed is more bad luck than good luck considering they are performing a whole 2.5 points better than the Heat per 100 possessions and yet the Heat are outperforming their expectations given that and have a higher record than they really should.

So stop with the fuqqing cap to push your BS agenda that has no facts to it other than to just troll and contribute to the chit storm here.

Our road record is bad. Our opponent shooting luck is the most fortunate in the league. We punched a LeBron less Laker's team in the mouth and hurt our hand. Why "should we have won" this game last night? If they had LeBron and Schroeder we lose by 15. If we had Mitch maybe we get 5-6 points back?

We are 0-9 vs. the 76ers, Heat and Brooklyn. I am a Knicks fan but you're kind of kidding yourself if you think this is a "great team". Unless your definition of "great team" is a slightly below .500 team in a weak East that would crawl into the 8th seed in a normal season.

So you're bringing up 9 games we lost by single digits to prove that the Knicks are lucky? Against the top 2 seeds in the conference and the team that made the finals year?

Do you even understand your own argument?

[prophet_of_rage]

as if there's an exact mathematical formula on losing games. any time a player has a wide open shot to win a game and misses, it's coaching ? is that right ?

It's a philosophy. Basketball was about philosophies before it was about analytics.

A coach's job is to put you in the best position to win. Once the game is two possessions then yes you can scrutinize coaching. It may not be that last play but something that happened in the game that ended up being costly.

In a blowout the players clearly aren't ready to play.

And in the middle well one team was just better.

But go ahead and blame RJ if you need to for having to take a shot over three people.

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i'm not talking about rj now, i'm talking about the ridiculous idea that losing by 6 points is coaching but losing by 1 more point isn't coaching as if there isn't a responsibility in all outcomes on both coaching and the players.

It isn't a ridiculous line. 7 points is Two possessions plus a free throw. Coaches can get you the two threes but the free throw isn't really something they can create. Twol possession games are very close. Three possessions meh. But if you're five or so behind you were never in it.

It's a philosophy I've used successfully in practice for 20 years now.

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