PG: Knicks vs. Celtics: At least that 3rd quarter was encouraging...

[NoDopeOnSundays]

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Nobody pushing the narrative that KAT is a bad defender will address this. Not one.

KAT in drop? Not the answer

KAT on the switch? Yes

It’s just that simple. Switch and live with the results. KAT and Jalen aren’t Luka level bad, they’ll put up a fight. Stay home and don’t give up open 3’s. Stop putting KAT in drop. Stop putting Mikal at POA and forcing him to fight over 10,000 screens every night while he plays the most minutes per night in the league. Switch. Starting Deuce over Hart also improves the starters defense and improves/brings energy off the bench and puts the ball in Mikal’s hands more.

Agenda posting doesn't deal with rationale thought though, because KAT quite literally has played in switches for the last 2 seasons playing at the 4.

Everyone can see he's in a drop, asking to take him out of the drop and switch doesn't mean people think he's prime KG, it just means to take him out of something he's not good at and put him in a role that he's better at suited at. If something doesn't work, why continue to do it?

[3toheadmelo]

People keep talking about switches, which is fine. But you’re missing the big piece. It only worked when he was at the 4, next to an elite rim protector. But you guys kept ignoring that and kept saying he needs to be at the 5 no matter what and ignored years of data that showed he’s completely awful at the 5. Well look where that got us now.

Where he’s really, really bought in and accepted the challenge is defensively,” Finch said. “You have so many different types of players to guard at the 4 position. He’s gone most of his life guarding in pick-and-roll. Now he has to guard in actions, now he has to guard in rotations, now he has to do other things.”

Towns is 7 feet tall and, like most 7-footers, is understandably at ease in the paint, fighting for rebounds and doing battle in cramped quarters. Minnesota’s coaching staff doesn’t want Towns to dance on the perimeter as a wing might but to help out around the basket and close out to shooters if/when his man drifts behind the arc. It’s an ambitious task but one that Towns has handled well enough to be a clear plus on that side of the ball, where the Timberwolves did a great job all year limiting 3s and shots at the rim. “His ability to adjust and embrace that has been everything to what we’re doing now,” Finch said.

According to Synergy Sports, 23.6 percent of possessions that involved Towns on defense this season ended in a catch-and-shoot or catch-and-drive situation. That percentage was only 11.4 in 2021, an example of how his function shifted. In pretty much every other season of his career, the Wolves were bad on defense with Towns at the 5.

[mpharris36]

I think Thibs just wants to run a consistent defensive system and may have always been waiting to slot Mitch back in instead of running a different scheme all season then switching it up when we get to the playoffs.

YMMV on whether that is a sound process, but the record and seeding are more or less fine, so there hasn't been any real repercussions.

A consistent defense system built around a guy that hasnt played all season and isn't trust worthy to stay healthy even when he comes back?

How about you built your system around the personnel you do have?

On top of all that we acquired KAT lay in off-season where he wasn't playing much drop coverage for a couple years next to Gobert. So why would you force him into a coverage he's not good at that he hasn't been playing for years?

Because that's what Thibs wants to play

I'm not defending the guy's nature. I'm just saying we all know what it is. Thibs believes his defensive scheme is the best one and, when he has his pieces, he's proven to be right.

He's making a big bet on Mitch and he doesn't really have a reason to switch from his mentality. We're 3rd in the East and top 5 in the league.

I get what your saying but you don't consider that damning on the coach?

Your basically saying he has be intentionally hurting our defense for over 4 months now because he is waiting on one injury prone player to return and hopefully change our defense. Which most recent metrics suggest Mitch will help nominally but not overhaul our defense either. He also is going to be handled with kid cloves probably...do you ever see mitch playing over 20 minutes in a game this year? Probably not.

I don't know that is like saying an NFL drafted a top mobile QB and a coach is so stubborn he refuses to adapt and run more RPO's and bootlegs to get him outside the pocket. Top tier coaches adj there scheme to there personnel.

And we are top 5 in the league simply because of our talent. We are 20th in DEF which is pretty damning if you ask me. Especially if he knows KAT isn't good at drop but continues to run it because he hopes that Mitch will come back after over 4 months off and save the day?

[mpharris36]

A consistent defense system built around a guy that hasnt played all season and isn't trust worthy to stay healthy even when he comes back?

How about you built your system around the personnel you do have?

On top of all that we acquired KAT lay in off-season where he wasn't playing much drop coverage for a couple years next to Gobert. So why would you force him into a coverage he's not good at that he hasn't been playing for years?

Because that's what Thibs wants to play

I'm not defending the guy's nature. I'm just saying we all know what it is. Thibs believes his defensive scheme is the best one and, when he has his pieces, he's proven to be right.

He's making a big bet on Mitch and he doesn't really have a reason to switch from his mentality. We're 3rd in the East and top 5 in the league.

I get using New York's top-three spot as a reason for optimism. But I think it's a bad excuse for Thibodeau to ignore the team's trash Defensive metrics. I'd want to see flaws addressed regardless of record.

I know you're not defending the mentality, just pointing to a potential rationale for it...but I have to mention that the mentality itself bothers me.

Agreed that bothers the crap out of me that the coach would say hey we are doing well enough record wise even though I know our defense has been **** and the scheme I am running isn't going to help us improve and I'm still going to run it because I'm stubborn and refuse to adj my scheme. ESPN flashed the metric that we run the most drop vs the celtics more than every other team...and to no surprise we are terrible at it....Mitch in drop vs the celtics is going to suck too. It did last year as well. You defensive scheme should adj to who you have on the floor and who you are playing. He's the only coach that consistently talks about a "shell" that is caveman talk.

That goes back to every anti thibs argument ever...whether its a regular season game or a playoff game the man refuses to adjust, its ultimately why he's been fired in 2 other jobs...

Lets even ignore DEF for a second (our offense is elite) why has it been over 4 months and we haven't figured out how to beat teams that switch again us. Our offense goes completely stagnant in terms of ball movement and 3 pt attempts when teams regularly switch vs us.

[Capn'O]

People keep talking about switches, which is fine. But you’re missing the big piece. It only worked when he was at the 4, next to an elite rim protector. But you guys kept ignoring that and kept saying he needs to be at the 5 no matter what and ignored years of data that showed he’s completely awful at the 5. Well look where that got us now.

Where he’s really, really bought in and accepted the challenge is defensively,” Finch said. “You have so many different types of players to guard at the 4 position. He’s gone most of his life guarding in pick-and-roll. Now he has to guard in actions, now he has to guard in rotations, now he has to do other things.”

Towns is 7 feet tall and, like most 7-footers, is understandably at ease in the paint, fighting for rebounds and doing battle in cramped quarters. Minnesota’s coaching staff doesn’t want Towns to dance on the perimeter as a wing might but to help out around the basket and close out to shooters if/when his man drifts behind the arc. It’s an ambitious task but one that Towns has handled well enough to be a clear plus on that side of the ball, where the Timberwolves did a great job all year limiting 3s and shots at the rim. “His ability to adjust and embrace that has been everything to what we’re doing now,” Finch said.

According to Synergy Sports, 23.6 percent of possessions that involved Towns on defense this season ended in a catch-and-shoot or catch-and-drive situation. That percentage was only 11.4 in 2021, an example of how his function shifted. In pretty much every other season of his career, the Wolves were bad on defense with Towns at the 5.

You know who would have been a great pairing target? Brook Lopez. Threes + rim protection. Genius!

Spoiler:

I'd better win it this year

[3toheadmelo]

People keep talking about switches, which is fine. But you’re missing the big piece. It only worked when he was at the 4, next to an elite rim protector. But you guys kept ignoring that and kept saying he needs to be at the 5 no matter what and ignored years of data that showed he’s completely awful at the 5. Well look where that got us now.

Where he’s really, really bought in and accepted the challenge is defensively,” Finch said. “You have so many different types of players to guard at the 4 position. He’s gone most of his life guarding in pick-and-roll. Now he has to guard in actions, now he has to guard in rotations, now he has to do other things.”

Towns is 7 feet tall and, like most 7-footers, is understandably at ease in the paint, fighting for rebounds and doing battle in cramped quarters. Minnesota’s coaching staff doesn’t want Towns to dance on the perimeter as a wing might but to help out around the basket and close out to shooters if/when his man drifts behind the arc. It’s an ambitious task but one that Towns has handled well enough to be a clear plus on that side of the ball, where the Timberwolves did a great job all year limiting 3s and shots at the rim. “His ability to adjust and embrace that has been everything to what we’re doing now,” Finch said.

According to Synergy Sports, 23.6 percent of possessions that involved Towns on defense this season ended in a catch-and-shoot or catch-and-drive situation. That percentage was only 11.4 in 2021, an example of how his function shifted. In pretty much every other season of his career, the Wolves were bad on defense with Towns at the 5.

You know who would have been a great pairing target? Brook Lopez. Threes + rim protection. Genius!

Spoiler:

I'd better win it this year

Yep, I’d also think Myles Turner would be a nice pairing next to him too.

Spoiler:

Your team has a very good chance to win it all. Meanwhile I’m trying to go small ball with Wagner, Tatum and Bam… which hasn’t gone well

[Capn'O]

Myles Turner...

I don't want to talk about it.

Spoiler:

Ironically, I had a Gobert/Turner deal lined up with Ribs and backed out. Came running back but he'd found another deal. Rudy can kick rocks always and forever.

Our league likes bigs. You've got some great pieces to make a big push this offseason to balance while keeping a deadly core intact but probably not your year this one.

[3toheadmelo]

Myles Turner...

I don't want to talk about it.

Spoiler:

Ironically, I had a Gobert/Turner deal lined up with Ribs and backed out. Came running back but he'd found another deal. Rudy can kick rocks always and forever.

Our league likes bigs. You've got some great pieces to make a big push this offseason to balance while keeping a deadly core intact but probably not your year this one.

Spoiler:

Yeah i think KAT and Brook is a much better pairing for sure

What’s annoying me the most is that Tatum isn’t that good in the sim… again. Wasn’t even an all star. I truly don’t get it. Happens year after year he sucks. At this point I’m hoping that Wagner and Christie can get some sim bumps for next year and my team can dominate again. I am still holding out hope my team gets it together in the playoffs though. They usually wake up by then.

[Knicksfan1992]

OG, Mitch and every last possible asset for Giannis is the way if you want to completely maximize KAT.

KAT would basically be Lopez on steroids on offense. While as Giannis ages you can transition him into a pure 5 on defense where he would be a menace.

Also it allows you to offset his halfcourt offense deficiencies with Brunson and KAT.

[GONYK]

A consistent defense system built around a guy that hasnt played all season and isn't trust worthy to stay healthy even when he comes back?

How about you built your system around the personnel you do have?

On top of all that we acquired KAT lay in off-season where he wasn't playing much drop coverage for a couple years next to Gobert. So why would you force him into a coverage he's not good at that he hasn't been playing for years?

Because that's what Thibs wants to play

I'm not defending the guy's nature. I'm just saying we all know what it is. Thibs believes his defensive scheme is the best one and, when he has his pieces, he's proven to be right.

He's making a big bet on Mitch and he doesn't really have a reason to switch from his mentality. We're 3rd in the East and top 5 in the league.

I get what your saying but you don't consider that damning on the coach?

It certainly will be if it doesn't work.

Your basically saying he has be intentionally hurting our defense for over 4 months now because he is waiting on one injury prone player to return and hopefully change our defense. Which most recent metrics suggest Mitch will help nominally but not overhaul our defense either. He also is going to be handled with kid cloves probably...do you ever see mitch playing over 20 minutes in a game this year? Probably not.

That's not exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying his defensive system is what it is and he doesn't really want to have to half-ass one version of it for 70% of the season when he had a good feeling he was getting his defensive anchor back and will want to play a certain way in the playoffs.

The argument that he's hurting our defense or overall performance is speculative, at best, given our record.

I don't know that is like saying an NFL drafted a top mobile QB and a coach is so stubborn he refuses to adapt and run more RPO's and bootlegs to get him outside the pocket. Top tier coaches adj there scheme to there personnel.

Is this hypothetical coach producing a top 5 team in the league?

And we are top 5 in the league simply because of our talent. We are 20th in DEF which is pretty damning if you ask me. Especially if he knows KAT isn't good at drop but continues to run it because he hopes that Mitch will come back after over 4 months off and save the day?

This remains to be seen. Like I said, it's the bet he wants to make. What is clear is that he has no interest in optimizing for the regular season. He wants to optimize for what he wants to do in the playoffs.

[Capn'O]

It certainly will be if it doesn't work.

I don't think people are hearing what we're saying on Thibs. He's either building his shrine or digging his grave with how he's managed things this year. Either way, we get to move forward.

Thibs integrates Mitch so we have a high level team that's a playoff contender = hooray! we have a contender!

It's a mess and/or Mitch gets injured again and we're a pretender = the brass will have their answer and we can move forward.

[GONYK]

It certainly will be if it doesn't work.

I don't think people are hearing what we're saying on Thibs. He's either building his shrine or digging his grave with how he's managed things this year. Either way, we get to move forward.

Thibs integrates Mitch so we have a high level team that's a playoff contender = hooray! we have a contender!

It's a mess and/or Mitch gets injured again and we're a pretender = the brass will have their answer and we can move forward.

Yup, and for better or worse, I think it would be a bit foolish to think Thibs hasn't done the math on this already. He lives and dies on his evaluation of what the game demands. He didn't come to his conclusions haphazardly. We all know he's watching film all day and night.

If he's going down, he's doing it his way.

[mpharris36]

Because that's what Thibs wants to play

I'm not defending the guy's nature. I'm just saying we all know what it is. Thibs believes his defensive scheme is the best one and, when he has his pieces, he's proven to be right.

He's making a big bet on Mitch and he doesn't really have a reason to switch from his mentality. We're 3rd in the East and top 5 in the league.

I get what your saying but you don't consider that damning on the coach?

It certainly will be if it doesn't work.

Your basically saying he has be intentionally hurting our defense for over 4 months now because he is waiting on one injury prone player to return and hopefully change our defense. Which most recent metrics suggest Mitch will help nominally but not overhaul our defense either. He also is going to be handled with kid cloves probably...do you ever see mitch playing over 20 minutes in a game this year? Probably not.

That's not exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying his defensive system is what it is and he doesn't really want to have to half-ass one version of it for 70% of the season when he had a good feeling he was getting his defensive anchor back and will want to play a certain way in the playoffs.

The argument that he's hurting our defense or overall performance is speculative, at best, given our record.

I don't know that is like saying an NFL drafted a top mobile QB and a coach is so stubborn he refuses to adapt and run more RPO's and bootlegs to get him outside the pocket. Top tier coaches adj there scheme to there personnel.

Is this hypothetical coach producing a top 5 team in the league?

And we are top 5 in the league simply because of our talent. We are 20th in DEF which is pretty damning if you ask me. Especially if he knows KAT isn't good at drop but continues to run it because he hopes that Mitch will come back after over 4 months off and save the day?

This remains to be seen. Like I said, it's the bet he wants to make. What is clear is that he has no interest in optimizing for the regular season. He wants to optimize for what he wants to do in the playoffs.

I guess my overall response to your responses is you are satisfied where we are at. I think the record is good but overall the disappointing performances against the top teams is the cloud over the season right now. Because at the end of the day...the moves we made weren't made to win a round in the playoffs...I guess so projection is involved with my concern because we will have to play CLE or BOS in round 2 if we make it that far...and if we have a poor showing (like in the regular season) do you think they move off him. I'm not even saying we have to beat CLE or BOS in a series...this is the first year but we need to be way more competitive in a series. If we aren't...I don't see anyway you can bring him back especially if we continue to get exposed on the defensive end and don't try to adj the scheme.

[mpharris36]

It certainly will be if it doesn't work.

I don't think people are hearing what we're saying on Thibs. He's either building his shrine or digging his grave with how he's managed things this year. Either way, we get to move forward.

Thibs integrates Mitch so we have a high level team that's a playoff contender = hooray! we have a contender!

It's a mess and/or Mitch gets injured again and we're a pretender = the brass will have their answer and we can move forward.

Yup, and for better or worse, I think it would be a bit foolish to think Thibs hasn't done the math on this already. He lives and dies on his evaluation of what the game demands. He didn't come to his conclusions haphazardly. We all know he's watching film all day and night.

If he's going down, he's doing it his way.

do you think we move off of Thibs after a 50 something win season and a 2nd round exit?

[3toheadmelo]

Watch on YouTube

listen to bontempts in the begging of this podcast. everyone has woken up. except the guys on here who told us we were dumb for thinking phil jackson sucked as gm and frank wasn't any good. sad.

Are you willing to give this team another shot with added depth and a new HC????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or is it is what it is and we can’t win a championship with Brunson&Kat Duo??????????????????????????????

I don't know man!!!!!!!!!!!!

It looks bad!!!!!!!!!!!

I just tell it like it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Peep what Thibs said. “Our starting center”. Hopefully Mitch is in shape and ready to go. He is basically our savior lol

Read on Twitter

[NoDopeOnSundays]

It certainly will be if it doesn't work.

I don't think people are hearing what we're saying on Thibs. He's either building his shrine or digging his grave with how he's managed things this year. Either way, we get to move forward.

Thibs integrates Mitch so we have a high level team that's a playoff contender = hooray! we have a contender!

It's a mess and/or Mitch gets injured again and we're a pretender = the brass will have their answer and we can move forward.

The Celtics are going to beat us with Mitch, because we're going to stay in a drop. A second big will help vs the Cavs, against the Celtics it means almost nothing. It meant nothing last year when they scorched us with him on the court, it meant nothing for the Mavs with their bigs, because they will penalize you for playing a no skilled C against them that can't score. Your second big has to be able to score or space if you're going against the Cs.


That second round matchup with the Celtics is going to be brief, because of who is coaching, you can go look at those games we played them last year and it was the same thing, dropping rather than switching.

[Capn'O]

It certainly will be if it doesn't work.

I don't think people are hearing what we're saying on Thibs. He's either building his shrine or digging his grave with how he's managed things this year. Either way, we get to move forward.

Thibs integrates Mitch so we have a high level team that's a playoff contender = hooray! we have a contender!

It's a mess and/or Mitch gets injured again and we're a pretender = the brass will have their answer and we can move forward.

The Celtics are going to beat us with Mitch, because we're going to stay in a drop. A second big will help vs the Cavs, against the Celtics it means almost nothing. It meant nothing last year when they scorched us with him on the court, it meant nothing for the Mavs with their bigs, because they will penalize you for playing a no skilled C against them that can't score. Your second big has to be able to score or space if you're going against the Cs.


That second round matchup with the Celtics is going to be brief, because of who is coaching, you can go look at those games we played them last year and it was the same thing, dropping rather than switching.

I agree about Mitch vs the Celtics but they cooked us with their second big lineup yesterday so they can run it too. Mitch doesn't really help there - maybe vs. Kornet but not KP - but iHart or what Huk could become does. This is why I'm still a little stunned he didn't play Huk at all the other day. You needed to see it.

Regarding Thibs - I tend to side with your view but he doesn't care. He'll go down Thibsing if he has to.

[Capn'O]

Are you willing to give this team another shot with added depth and a new HC????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or is it is what it is and we can’t win a championship with Brunson&Kat Duo??????????????????????????????

I don't know man!!!!!!!!!!!!

It looks bad!!!!!!!!!!!

I just tell it like it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Peep what Thibs said. “Our starting center”. Hopefully Mitch is in shape and ready to go. He is basically our savior lol

Read on Twitter

Thibs really is ready to die on Mitch Hill.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I don't think people are hearing what we're saying on Thibs. He's either building his shrine or digging his grave with how he's managed things this year. Either way, we get to move forward.

Thibs integrates Mitch so we have a high level team that's a playoff contender = hooray! we have a contender!

It's a mess and/or Mitch gets injured again and we're a pretender = the brass will have their answer and we can move forward.

The Celtics are going to beat us with Mitch, because we're going to stay in a drop. A second big will help vs the Cavs, against the Celtics it means almost nothing. It meant nothing last year when they scorched us with him on the court, it meant nothing for the Mavs with their bigs, because they will penalize you for playing a no skilled C against them that can't score. Your second big has to be able to score or space if you're going against the Cs.


That second round matchup with the Celtics is going to be brief, because of who is coaching, you can go look at those games we played them last year and it was the same thing, dropping rather than switching.

I agree about Mitch vs the Celtics but they cooked us with their second big lineup yesterday so they can run it too. Mitch doesn't really help there - maybe vs. Kornet but not KP - but iHart or what Huk could become does.

If Huk is playing in the playoffs Thibs has been fired, abducted by aliens or KAT, Precious and Mitch were all deported. Can't really think of what KAT and Ihart would do, he's gone, he's dead to me.

I just checked and the Celtics have made Jarrett Allen a liability all season, he has a 108.3 ORTG against then and he's net -6.1 against them, their worst starter and 9th worst out of 12 on their team. Two bigs against them is a death sentence if one of them can't do much on offense other than hustle for boards.

[3toheadmelo]

I don't know man!!!!!!!!!!!!

It looks bad!!!!!!!!!!!

I just tell it like it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Peep what Thibs said. “Our starting center”. Hopefully Mitch is in shape and ready to go. He is basically our savior lol

Read on Twitter

Thibs really is ready to die on Mitch Hill.

I mean I don’t blame him. As good as KAT is offensively, we really struggle on defense with him at the 5 against top 10 offenses. You should listen to that clip that sham posted. Those numbers are wild. The Timberwolves knew this and that’s why they paid a premium for Gobert, which got them to the WCF. KAT at the 4 really is the only way. Ideally you’d want a center that can shoot and rim protect as well, but Mitch is all we have lol