BREAKING **** NEWS: Deal #done Knicks acquire Bargnani

[malik959]

[suicidedeuce]

So, that should be worth a 15-30 pick if that's where it ends up.

Perspective is always a boon to these discussions.

Bargani has already FAR exceeded what you normally can expect from a 15-30 pick.

Anyone with belief in the magical value of any first rounder spend just 10 mins reviewing any NBA draft of the modern era. You'll be amazed at how many names you'll find of players you never knew existed or forgot existed a LONG time ago.

I'll remind you all of the top half of the same draft Bargnani was selected in.

Adam Morrison (3)
Tyrus Thomas (4)
Shelden Willaims (5)
Patrick O'Bryant (9)
Mouhamed Sene (10)
Hilton Armstrong (12)
Cedric Simmons (15)

[ctorres]

Only argument I have for keeping a late first round pick is if you happen to get lucky and pick up a guy who can play, then that's a guy who you can keep on your roster for four years.

I didn't love giving up the pick, but I can live with it if Bargnani works out these next two seasons.

[Bran Fast Hands]

#77 will be the next Knicks jersey to be retired.

[Capn'O]

Can i ask you something??? that thing at the bottom of your post is very offensive..Bargnani was told to lay off practising that summer by the trainers to let his injuries to his calf heal that's also why he had a bad start.This year is different he's playing euroball.

Just curious, did he actually say that?

Seems like dude could use some PR lessons.

[Capn'O]

I don't care what that article says. There is roughly a 100% chance that a low 1st rounder and 2 late 2nd rounders will be better than Bustnani.

Players drafted the same year as Bargnani:

Adam Morrison (3)
Tyrus Thomas (4)
Shelden Willaims (5)
Patrick O'Bryant (9)
Mouhamed Sene (10)
Hilton Armstrong (12)
Cedric Simmons (15)
Rodney Carney (16)
Shawne Willains (17)
Oleksiy Pecherov (18)
Quincy Douby (19)
Renaldo Balkman (20)
Marcus Williams (22)
Maurice Ager (28)
Mardy Collins (29)
Joel Freeland (30)

Might want to rethink 100%

Hyperbole always weakens an argument.

You're an intense dude...

[Capn'O]

I'm sure teams with legit 2nd scorers were salivating over 2 2nd rounders in the 50's

Well, there was the Raptors, for example

[Capn'O]

So, that should be worth a 15-30 pick if that's where it ends up.

Perspective is always a boon to these discussions.

Bargani has already FAR exceeded what you normally can expect from a 15-30 pick.

Anyone with belief in the magical value of any first rounder spend just 10 mins reviewing any NBA draft of the modern era. You'll be amazed at how many names you'll find of players you never knew existed or forgot existed a LONG time ago.

I'll remind you all of the top half of the same draft Bargnani was selected in.

Adam Morrison (3)
Tyrus Thomas (4)
Shelden Willaims (5)
Patrick O'Bryant (9)
Mouhamed Sene (10)
Hilton Armstrong (12)
Cedric Simmons (15)

This is why I always lol at the outrage over Jordan Hill at #8. Wasn't a great pick but he is still in the league at least.

[suicidedeuce]

So, that should be worth a 15-30 pick if that's where it ends up.

Perspective is always a boon to these discussions.

Bargani has already FAR exceeded what you normally can expect from a 15-30 pick.

Anyone with belief in the magical value of any first rounder spend just 10 mins reviewing any NBA draft of the modern era. You'll be amazed at how many names you'll find of players you never knew existed or forgot existed a LONG time ago.

I'll remind you all of the top half of the same draft Bargnani was selected in.

Adam Morrison (3)
Tyrus Thomas (4)
Shelden Willaims (5)
Patrick O'Bryant (9)
Mouhamed Sene (10)
Hilton Armstrong (12)
Cedric Simmons (15)

This is why I always lol at the outrage over Jordan Hill at #8. Wasn't a great pick but he is still in the league at least.

http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-pic ... all/80509/

[K_ick_God]

You can probably name on two hands and maybe one foot, at most, the number of 7-footers in the history of the game as offensively skilled as Bargnani is.

Dirk
Kareem
Bargs
A few others?

Let me seemingly contradict myself by conceding that offensive talent is overrated. It really is. But it's not nothing. And height and talent ... it's something worth noting.

[Capn'O]

Perspective is always a boon to these discussions.

Bargani has already FAR exceeded what you normally can expect from a 15-30 pick.

Anyone with belief in the magical value of any first rounder spend just 10 mins reviewing any NBA draft of the modern era. You'll be amazed at how many names you'll find of players you never knew existed or forgot existed a LONG time ago.

I'll remind you all of the top half of the same draft Bargnani was selected in.

Adam Morrison (3)
Tyrus Thomas (4)
Shelden Willaims (5)
Patrick O'Bryant (9)
Mouhamed Sene (10)
Hilton Armstrong (12)
Cedric Simmons (15)

This is why I always lol at the outrage over Jordan Hill at #8. Wasn't a great pick but he is still in the league at least.

http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-pic ... all/80509/

I had high hopes for Todd Day.

[BOOMbip]

It's interesting to note that he did improve some defensively when he got a coach who focused on defense and gave him a clear role. Let's hope Woody can give him the same type of guidance. Barg is actually pretty good at contesting shots and has some skills for the man on defense if he can just consistently focus on it. With a group of team mates around him and a coach who gives the team a clear plan to play defense let's hope he can bring the energy more consistently on that side of the ball.

[mamadontcry]

Bargnani doesn't care of media opinions, he knows it's a business and fans needs to be fed

Eric Koreen, National Post · Dec. 17, 2010
"It is common knowledge that during his time as head coach of the Toronto Raptors, Sam Mitchell did not have a perfect relationship with Andrea Bargnani.
Mitchell wears his heart on his sleeve, while Bargnani usually sticks to one facial expression. You could easily mistake him for disengaged.Two years removed from playing under his guidance, Bargnani showed Mitchell a glimpse of the player he is becoming.

Bargnani was sensational in the second half on Friday night, hitting his jumper with regularity, driving to the rim with ferocity and protecting the rim. He even went to the floor for a loose ball once. He propelled the Raptors to a 98-92 win over the Mitchell’s New Jersey Nets at the Air Canada Centre.

Bargnani led all scorers with 32 points, 24 of which came in the second half. He added nine rebounds

“To see how Andrea has developed [is great],” Mitchell, who shared a hug with Bargnani after the game, said. “We all knew he was going to be good, it was just how long it was going to take for him to get there.”

That's the same Mitchell (today a commentator) who is spitting on him now

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMQIjvJtIWo[/youtube]

[ReturnofMVP3]

You can probably name on two hands and maybe one foot, at most, the number of 7-footers in the history of the game as offensively skilled as Bargnani is.

Dirk
Kareem
Bargs
A few others?

Let me seemingly contradict myself by conceding that offensive talent is overrated. It really is. But it's not nothing. And height and talent ... it's something worth noting.

Huh?

Yao Ming
Ralph Sampson
Ewing
Shaq
Parish
D-Rob
Wilt
Hakeem

[TrueWarrior]

You can probably name on two hands and maybe one foot, at most, the number of 7-footers in the history of the game as offensively skilled as Bargnani is.

Dirk
Kareem
Bargs
A few others?

Let me seemingly contradict myself by conceding that offensive talent is overrated. It really is. But it's not nothing. And height and talent ... it's something worth noting.

Hakeem, Pau, Duncan, Wilt, Garnett, DRob, Walton, Ewing, Sheed, Yao, Sabonis, Shaq, McHale, etc. I guess you're talking more about perimeter / shooting skills?

Thing with Bargs is he doesn't play like his height so the whole skilled 7 footer thing is overblown on both sides of the ball with him. He's an oversized SF. If he was 6'10 like Gallo I don't think he would lose much if at all. He can post a little and shoot over guys but not much.

Its been said Bargs is the worst rebounding 7 footer of all time, but again I don't look at him like a big man or "7 footer" in the classic sense. As a SF his rebounding is fine, and on our team since Melo, Tyson, Shump, and JR are good rebounders it hopefully shouldn't be a huge issue. Some people want to start Artest if we get him and hes a worse rebounder than Bargs. Now he still clearly needs to board better or at least make sure his man is boxed out though since he guards PFs and Cs instead of SFs.

Bargs is just a strange player. Talent and potential can only get you so far when you're about to turn 28 and be in the the league 8 years. If he doesn't live up to that talent here it's time to just call him what he is. This is his chance to prove himself.

[Knicksfan20]

Only argument I have for keeping a late first round pick is if you happen to get lucky and pick up a guy who can play, then that's a guy who you can keep on your roster for four years.

I didn't love giving up the pick, but I can live with it if Bargnani works out these next two seasons.

So you'd rather get "lucky" and hope we draft someone (3 drafts from now) who can play over trading that pick for a proven 7 footer who can put up 20ppg who can contribute right now?

I just don't understand that logic.

[K_ick_God]

You can probably name on two hands and maybe one foot, at most, the number of 7-footers in the history of the game as offensively skilled as Bargnani is.

Dirk
Kareem
Bargs
A few others?

Let me seemingly contradict myself by conceding that offensive talent is overrated. It really is. But it's not nothing. And height and talent ... it's something worth noting.

Huh?

Yao Ming
Ralph Sampson
Ewing
Shaq
Parish
D-Rob
Wilt
Hakeem

I was speaking about pure all-around offensive basketball skills, with an emphasis on perimeter game, though that is not mandatory if you pack a lot of other tools. But shooting touch and raw scoring skill are pretty much required.

Yao Ming - I'll give you him; yet ... it's apples to oranges but Yao was not all that gifted -- for a guy that big he was definitely more talented and less clumsy than people even near his height range.

Ralph Sampson - sort of like Yao but not really willing to give you Ralph because we saw so little of him.

Ewing - sure.

Shaq - no. Shaq was pure size, power and speed. Footwork counts as an offensive skill and he had that. But little else. He's really the exact opposite of what I'm talking about, even though he may be the most dominant big ever. You are not making my list if you can't even shoot a free throw.

Parish - sure. Let's throw in Cartwright and Joe Barry Carroll while we're at it.

D-Rob - I think he was an overrated player, especially offensively, but I'll give you him.

Wilt - no. See Shaq.

Hakeem - he was 6'10" if I remember right. But ridiculously talented. So sure, we'll Grandfather him in.

Even if I give you everybody and add in my own nominees, you still you haven't shown more than two hands and a few toes. It would be hard to find enough for even another foot.

So yeah, I maintain it's pretty much less than or around 20 men in the history of humankind and Bargs is on the list. That's worth a flier and a 15-30 pick thrown in.

[Dr. Detfink]

Again, I will be stunned if by midseason, Bargs is still starting. 7 foot Tim Thomas. Great form when he sets himself. Horrible at rebounding and allergic at D. Woody can't teach but can't force him to learn.

[K_ick_God]

You can probably name on two hands and maybe one foot, at most, the number of 7-footers in the history of the game as offensively skilled as Bargnani is.

Dirk
Kareem
Bargs
A few others?

Let me seemingly contradict myself by conceding that offensive talent is overrated. It really is. But it's not nothing. And height and talent ... it's something worth noting.

Hakeem, Pau, Duncan, Wilt, Garnett, DRob, Walton, Ewing, Sheed, Yao, Sabonis, Shaq, McHale, etc. I guess you're talking more about perimeter / shooting skills?

Thing with Bargs is he doesn't play like his height so the whole skilled 7 footer thing is overblown on both sides of the ball with him. He's an oversized SF. If he was 6'10 like Gallo I don't think he would lose much if at all. He can post a little and shoot over guys but not much.

Its been said Bargs is the worst rebounding 7 footer of all time, but again I don't look at him like a big man or "7 footer" in the classic sense. As a SF his rebounding is fine, and on our team since Melo, Tyson, Shump, and JR are good rebounders it hopefully shouldn't be a huge issue. Some people want to start Artest if we get him and hes a worse rebounder than Bargs. Now he still clearly needs to board better or at least make sure his man is boxed out though since he guards PFs and Cs instead of SFs.

Bargs is just a strange player. Talent and potential can only get you so far when you're about to turn 28 and be in the the league 8 years. If he doesn't live up to that talent here it's time to just call him what he is. This is his chance to prove himself.

He doesn't play like a true 7-footer but neither does Dirk really. That's a bad thing about him but it's also a good thing. A perimeter 7-foot guy is hard to guard and can shoot over people. At crucial moments of a game, being able to get your shot off becomes the key and scarce commodity. He creates major matchup problems if he's aggressive and on.

I definitely think there are issues with Bargs' motor and mental makeup. Otherwise he would not have been available at a relatively cheap price.

Gasol is a good call. Definitely deserves to make the list. Garnett is 6-11 but we can put him on because of the ridiculous talent, like Dream. Wilt and the like no! Not too familiar with Walton but think he was pretty clumsy. McHale and Rasheed = probably not. Not 7-foot and not at the KG/Dream level.

[seren]

Again, I will be stunned if by midseason, Bargs is still starting. 7 foot Tim Thomas. Great form when he sets himself. Horrible at rebounding and allergic at D. Woody can't teach but can't force him to learn.

We could use a 7 foot Tim Thomas.