The uncomfortable "truth" about this season (Julius and RJ)

[prophet_of_rage]

The uncomfortable truth is Jius was voted 2nd team All-NBA.

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[louisorr]

When Zion passes on his rookie extension we will all appreciate the value of RJ Barrett.

[FlashFlood]

Tatum vs RJ, I think Jayson is more of a primary scorer type early into his career, whereas RJ has developed shooting skills. The thing is this - RJ made such a huge leap in improving his shooting that now there's a question mark where his true potential might be.

He's putting in the work, now it's going to be a matter of opportunity. Thibs will give him plenty of minutes in 2022, and I'm excited to see how far he goes.

[N Y K]

Watch on YouTube

least efficient in the paint...

least efficient from the baseline...

Spoiler:

and I still love both idc

[Garbagelo]

I agree 100% and ignoring these facts will derail our franchise in one way or another

[booyaka_jones]

Look man - we need to trust our eyes when we evaluate kids like RJ. Putting up comparative stats to guys like Tatum is disingenuous for a very simple reason. When you watched guys like Tatum early on, clearly they have a ton of actual basketball skill. Handle, ability to get to their spot, some kind of a bag. In other words, they look like actual basketball players even if they aren't yet efficient at the time. RJ's improvement this season came in one area - spot up 3 point shots. The rest of his game? Use your eyes. He looks like a kid who switched to his left at like 14 cuz he thought it was cool and now everything he does is awkward. Nothing he does outside of spot up open 3's looks natural. His handle is labored, he has slow feet, he has absolutely zero feel or touch around the basket. He's Payton under the basket again, I don't mean to kill this kid I very much like him, but we need to be honest. When he drives I hold my breath. When he tries something ugly around basket and puts it up, I hold my breath. None of it looks "good" or natural. There are things you can work on in your game, like hitting open shots - but is he gonna somehow get more athletic? Get quicker feet? Be more fluid and not stiff as a board? I really don't know.

[Knicks1992]

Randle at the right price is a piece; probably a third option.

RJ is entering that critical third year. Will he be in line for that next contract a summer from now when Zion and Morant will be offered their big five year first contract. THAT is a sign things are going in the right direction. Moving into 20+ point land and continued improved finishing at the basket, 3PT, and defensive metrics will make the decision.

[thebuzzardman]

Randle at the right price is a piece; probably a third option.

RJ is entering that critical third year. Will he be in line for that next contract a summer from now when Zion and Morant will be offered their big five year first contract. THAT is a sign things are going in the right direction. Moving into 20+ point land and continued improved finishing at the basket, 3PT, and defensive metrics will make the decision.

Except Randle is soon to be paid like one of the top players in the league. Is he worth that price?

I'm not advocating trading him etc. It's just that the Knicks might about to be centered around a guy paid like he's top 10, but isn't.
(in the scenario no extension and Randle gets paid big after this upcoming season)

[thebuzzardman]

Look man - we need to trust our eyes when we evaluate kids like RJ. Putting up comparative stats to guys like Tatum is disingenuous for a very simple reason. When you watched guys like Tatum early on, clearly they have a ton of actual basketball skill. Handle, ability to get to their spot, some kind of a bag. In other words, they look like actual basketball players even if they aren't yet efficient at the time. RJ's improvement this season came in one area - spot up 3 point shots. The rest of his game? Use your eyes. He looks like a kid who switched to his left at like 14 cuz he thought it was cool and now everything he does is awkward. Nothing he does outside of spot up open 3's looks natural. His handle is labored, he has slow feet, he has absolutely zero feel or touch around the basket. He's Payton under the basket again, I don't mean to kill this kid I very much like him, but we need to be honest. When he drives I hold my breath. When he tries something ugly around basket and puts it up, I hold my breath. None of it looks "good" or natural. There are things you can work on in your game, like hitting open shots - but is he gonna somehow get more athletic? Get quicker feet? Be more fluid and not stiff as a board? I really don't know.

I agree with this. Now, one take is that since RJ has an awesome work ethic etc etc, that he'll improve and be a better player than he is now - see 3 pt shooting and FT shooting. I think that is true.

However, that doesn't mean he's going to be a Tatum etc level guy. I just don't think he has the burst/hops and natural handle that will get him there, ever.

However, he's EXTREMELY hard working and team oriented. He wants to share the ball - it's kind of in his DNA - that was there at Duke. So, I think he's a "piece" in that he's the kind of player that elevates a team and alters it's bball culture for the better. He'll work hard. He won't be selfish. He'll do the little things it takes to win. He'd probably alter his game for wins instead of individual stats.

In effect, RJ will be a great 2nd option. He sort of is, but I think this team was kind of fluky and RJ feels more like a good 3rd option on a more legit team, but no problem he'll grow into that.

Randle played like a #1 option in many ways, but I don't think a smart team wants to build around a "Randle the #1 option".

Knicks need that elite wing or PG. It'll probably be a wing, since that means 2X times the chances of finding a guy.
Good thing about RJ - he had enough guard skills that he's interchangeable at 2 or 3, so opens up the Knicks choices. And since he's already big at just turned 21, he'll probably be able to play some 4 soon.

[Knicks1992]

Randle at the right price is a piece; probably a third option.

RJ is entering that critical third year. Will he be in line for that next contract a summer from now when Zion and Morant will be offered their big five year first contract. THAT is a sign things are going in the right direction. Moving into 20+ point land and continued improved finishing at the basket, 3PT, and defensive metrics will make the decision.

Except Randle is soon to be paid like one of the top players in the league. Is he worth that price?

I'm not advocating trading him etc. It's just that the Knicks might about to be centered around a guy paid like he's top 10, but isn't.
(in the scenario no extension and Randle gets paid big after this upcoming season)

Which is why I say at the right price. He is not a top 10 price guy and I agree. I hope a contract can come together where he is paid as a 2/3 option in a championship contender. Not the guy or maybe the guy's robin. Uncomfortable conversations to come. Take the 76ers: if the Sixers do not win it all and Embid starts asking out.

[god shammgod]

Watch on YouTube

least efficient in the paint...

least efficient from the baseline...

Spoiler:

and I still love both idc

rj was worse than elfrid in the paint ? is there a qualifier ?

[Jimmit79]

I wonder if RJ fans even watch other teams players before they go comparing RJ to them. I mean seriously wtf is wrong with this board saying things like RJ plays defense or RJ is close or equal to Tatum lvl. I have even seen ppl defending RJ is a star by comparing his numbers to every goddamm hof in existence.

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[Stannis]

Best thread this summer and everyone should read it and ask the hard questions

[Stannis]

Yeah, I'm bumping this thread... Should win Thread of the Season.

The last paragraph really hits hard. Knicks should've asked themselves the tough questions and been more ruthless. I got the same feels with resigning Randle that I got when they didn't amnesty Amar'e.

EDIT: Also, while it hurts to admit, but the Randle headlines are taking some of the spotlight off of RJ. He needs a reevaluation.

[god shammgod]

sham and chanel winning again

[Chanel Bomber]

sham and chanel winning again

[Im Coming Home]

Yeah despite this good week, extending Randle was a mistake.

RJ has been making big strides this season in terms of the eye test, especially the last month and a half. Kid has been making a lot of dynamic moves, looking to post up more, good dribble moves, etc that I hadn't seen him make before and has been looking more aggressive for his own shots.

I think RJ is fine, but Randle should not have been extended, imagine a world where Randle is about to expire this summer, and we'd see how he was playing this seasonn? He'd likely either get a shorter contract from us, or not get re-signed by us at all.

[Jalen Bluntson]

2 different teams...so throw away last years stats. Rose has been out for a long time...so...the bench has struggled this season. Kemba is washed so....there is that. IQ/Burks are not PGs. Randle was giving terrible effort until four games ago. He has been the damn problem. We all know you love RJ yet you constantly stats him out as not really very good.

There's nothing to figure out. Our PG situation is far worse. Our #1 was not giving effort at all. I mean....Ahhh...fuq it. I really don't even care what happens or who is to blame. I'll probably watch some games but...I am so checked out right now. Trade everyone and burn the building down. I don't care anymore.

[KnicksGadfly]

Yeah despite this good week, extending Randle was a mistake.

RJ has been making big strides this season in terms of the eye test, especially the last month and a half. Kid has been making a lot of dynamic moves, looking to post up more, good dribble moves, etc that I hadn't seen him make before and has been looking more aggressive for his own shots.

I think RJ is fine, but Randle should not have been extended, imagine a world where Randle is about to expire this summer, and we'd see how he was playing this seasonn? He'd likely either get a shorter contract from us, or not get re-signed by us at all.

Or he’d play really well, get super maxed a year later and then we’d get that situation again the year after.

Toughest part about all this with Randle is that a lot of his issues were mental/motivational. Y’all think he would still be a bad teammate if his money were on the line? Or fail to hustle? Or not play defense?

I really can’t blame the Knicks for extending him. It was a gamble for sure, but it felt like an informed gamble.

[sol537]

Good thread.

We gotta trade Randle in the off-season and bring in a legit PG somehow.

I’d rather ride with Mitch, Obi, RJ, Grimes and a new PG and see what they can do.