Knicks trade for Josh Hart

[Deeeez Knicks]

So we did at least try for KD right? Right?

Probably no way they would trade him to the Knicks anyway

Yeah I wanted it to happen but unlikely they trade him to us and if stuff leaks that we were trying probably not good for the locker room that we were trying to ship a bunch of pieces out when realistically they were never sending him to MSG and potentially help us win a ring.

KD is the type of star we could use.... just know the nets would never even consider it.

[E-Balla]

They committed to mediocrity when they signed Mitchell Robinson to that contract so if they pay Josh Hart that much it won’t come as a surprise

That's about what he's worth. Y'all want to go from worst to first so bad. Like chill, considering what we gave to get Cam this is basically 2nd round picks and a 1st for Hart who is one of the best glue guys in the league (when Portland starts tumbling in the standings without him remember where you heard it first).

I agree he’s a great glue guy but we held on to assets so we don’t trade for a superstar just so we can trade those assets in smaller deals for glue guys and role players. Meh

Smaller stakes deals, smaller drawbacks. At worst if this doesn't work out we lose a non lottery pick or 4 2nds. We don't resign Hart.

At worst if KD doesn't work out (likely) we suck until 2030. If Mitchell doesn't work out we repeat the Melo years.

It's the Morey school of team building. Acquire easier to get but still positive value contracts, middling picks, and stay around .500 until the chance for a star that will actually make a big difference comes along. Harden or bust.

[DLTGWH]

Absolutely terrible terrible move. The other two "minor" moves of the night underline this FO's ineptitude. Let's break it down:

We trade for another undersized guard who will command major minutes and potentially disturb what was a nice balance between Brunson, McBride, Quickley and Grimes. Just when all 3 young player were playing solid and trending up, we bring another undersized guard in that will potentially mess things up. But worse than that--we essentially give up this year's first round draft pick, which projects to be in the 15-19 range for essentially a back-up role player that will force us to play a midget line-up of Brunson-Hart-Grimes at times. Absolutely idiotic. There is literally no way anyone in their right mind should trade a mid first round draft pick for a back-up guard struggling to get 10 points a night. Terrible!

Taking a look around the league on what teams acquired for a FRP:

Toronto filled a position of absolute need with a borderline top 10 Center and legitimate starter who gives you 13/10 in 28minutes for a protected 2024 FRP---so they essentially not only filled a position of absolute need, but also gave up a draft pick in a much weaker draft class while the Knicks acquired a bench player for a better draft choice. Idiotic, pure simply incompetence at play.

Lakers had a difficult choice to make because of the Lebron situation. Russell, Beasley and Vanderbilt are no world beaters at all, but for the Lakers they give them 2-3 starter. Assuming the Lakers will go with Russell-Beasley-Lebron-Vanderbilt-AD one can even argue that the Lakers got rid of Westbrook for 3 potential starters while surrendering one future FRP.

The idiot that Rose and the FO is we give up a valuable pick in one of the deepest draft in recent draft history for a 25 minute backup guard that can't shoot.

So you’re saying you didn’t like the move?

[KnicksGadfly]

The way I always feel about it? Are you likely to get a better player with that pick?

We've hit on late firsts but outside of IQ can you say any of them have the potential to be significantly better than Hart? Not really. They're about Hart level guys. With that in mind I don't mind the move.

Plus we couldve have 3 picks this season so trading one doesn't hurt. Ppl think we were gonna turn a 16 20 and 22 picks into #5 pick. I doubt a team would except that. For #10 pick probably

Also IDK about y'all but I trust this FO more with a 20th pick than a top 10 one lol. They've had a lot of hits, we've basically found the best glue guys available in the 20s the last few years.

Agreed. People think the FO is excellent at late round drafting but they’re average to above average at best. They know how to hit singles pretty well. Still, getting a contributor at a late round draft pick price is really good…the Jazz wanted Grimes as the centerpiece of a Mitchell trade for example.

With Hart, you’re getting him short term, and then budgeting cash for him for an extension. If the FO can hit on Hart types and get them at 4 year cheap contracts, that’s much better. The other option is to wait for draft day and see what deals are available. I feel like the value and demand for that pick will be much higher then.

[Oscirus]

so the best player the knicks will get this decade is either the player that wanted to come back home or the one that came to us cuz he had no other options that summer. Noice

[mpharris36]

That's about what he's worth. Y'all want to go from worst to first so bad. Like chill, considering what we gave to get Cam this is basically 2nd round picks and a 1st for Hart who is one of the best glue guys in the league (when Portland starts tumbling in the standings without him remember where you heard it first).

I agree he’s a great glue guy but we held on to assets so we don’t trade for a superstar just so we can trade those assets in smaller deals for glue guys and role players. Meh

Smaller stakes deals, smaller drawbacks. At worst if this doesn't work out we lose a non lottery pick or 4 2nds. We don't resign Hart.

At worst if KD doesn't work out (likely) we suck until 2030. If Mitchell doesn't work out we repeat the Melo years.

It's the Morey school of team building. Acquire easier to get but still positive value contracts, middling picks, and stay around .500 until the chance for a star that will actually make a big difference comes along. Harden or bust.

yeah but if we don't pick a direction we kinda stay middling. Either break it up and tank or go for a star. The middle ground very rarely wins down the road outside of making us competitive. The only person that really wins is Dolan because he can stay raising ticket prices with the knicks never having any championship asperations.

[E-Balla]

Plus we couldve have 3 picks this season so trading one doesn't hurt. Ppl think we were gonna turn a 16 20 and 22 picks into #5 pick. I doubt a team would except that. For #10 pick probably

Also IDK about y'all but I trust this FO more with a 20th pick than a top 10 one lol. They've had a lot of hits, we've basically found the best glue guys available in the 20s the last few years.

Agreed. People think the FO is excellent at late round drafting but they’re average to above average at best. They know how to hit singles pretty well. Still, getting a contributor at a late round draft pick price is really good…the Jazz wanted Grimes as the centerpiece of a Mitchell trade for example.

With Hart, you’re getting him short term, and then budgeting cash for him for an extension. If the FO can hit on Hart types and get them at 4 year cheap contracts, that’s much better. The other option is to wait for draft day and see what deals are available. I feel like the value and demand for that pick will be much higher then.

Honestly I can say my only issue with the FO? Drafting Obi. It was so **** stupid. I wanted Haliburton with the 2nd pick if he got it. I was saying all **** season on here that he was the 2nd best player in that draft. Now look. How could I see it but people paid to know this missed it? The narrative around our team would be so different with a young player as good as him in the squad.

[Synciere]

Yeah, not in favor of this move, especially for our 1st in a deep draft.
If there isn‘t a followup move to bring us some balance, then it is like a return to the past bad asset management.

Thibs influence here is slowly going to destroy us from acquiring solid young players.
And the day isn‘t over yet, maybe we can manage to get rid of more young players and draft picks for this year.

Knicks aren’t a team drafting more than 1 rookie. Just not that type of team.

You are right unfortunately....the Knicks are the type of team that pays a mid first round pick for a 8points/6rebounds backup, undersized guard....you know the type of team that has had no success for over 2 decades and is the worst or second worst team since Ewing.

In a vacuum I agree with you that a guy like Hart is not worth a first, even protected, but there is a lot of recent precedent as far as that being the going rate for a 3and D wing man like him. There's the Melton to Philly deal where he got traded for the 23rd pick last year. There's also Royce O'Neale who was traded last offseason for a first. I'm sure there are others. Also, though he's just 6'5", Hart is really just an undersized SF.

[E-Balla]

I agree he’s a great glue guy but we held on to assets so we don’t trade for a superstar just so we can trade those assets in smaller deals for glue guys and role players. Meh

Smaller stakes deals, smaller drawbacks. At worst if this doesn't work out we lose a non lottery pick or 4 2nds. We don't resign Hart.

At worst if KD doesn't work out (likely) we suck until 2030. If Mitchell doesn't work out we repeat the Melo years.

It's the Morey school of team building. Acquire easier to get but still positive value contracts, middling picks, and stay around .500 until the chance for a star that will actually make a big difference comes along. Harden or bust.

yeah but if we don't pick a direction we kinda stay middling. Either break it up and tank or go for a star. The middle ground very rarely wins down the road outside of making us competitive. The only person that really wins is Dolan because he can stay raising ticket prices with the knicks never having any championship asperations.

Statistically speaking that's not true. Look at the Pels, they were middling when they got Zion and were able to flip the switch to contention. The Grizzlies were the same with Ja. The Nets were middling when they went all out for KD and Kyrie. Clippers were middling when they got Kawhi and PG13. The Raptors were middling when they got Kawhi.

I think none of the big deals that have happened recently have been worth it. I'm happy they stayed firm and didn't trade away everything for Mitchell for example. He's great but does he bring us a ring? Doubt it. If we're going all out like that the only way it's worth it is if the player will be an MVP level guy for at least 3 years for us. That's also why I want to pass on KD, no longevity there. You think we can get a team together midseason and contend with one off-season for everyone to gel before KD starts aging more?

[Synciere]

I agree he’s a great glue guy but we held on to assets so we don’t trade for a superstar just so we can trade those assets in smaller deals for glue guys and role players. Meh

Smaller stakes deals, smaller drawbacks. At worst if this doesn't work out we lose a non lottery pick or 4 2nds. We don't resign Hart.

At worst if KD doesn't work out (likely) we suck until 2030. If Mitchell doesn't work out we repeat the Melo years.

It's the Morey school of team building. Acquire easier to get but still positive value contracts, middling picks, and stay around .500 until the chance for a star that will actually make a big difference comes along. Harden or bust.

yeah but if we don't pick a direction we kinda stay middling. Either break it up and tank or go for a star. The middle ground very rarely wins down the road outside of making us competitive. The only person that really wins is Dolan because he can stay raising ticket prices with the knicks never having any championship asperations.

Staying in the middle is more likely to be successful that tanking is though. Plus, having a bunch of mid tier deals makes it easier to complete trades because you have guys signed at different values. The only pitfall there is not signing them to deals too long. That's why our 3 year deals with the third year being a team option were so perfect. Never understood what Fournier's leverage was in getting that extra year.

[FrozenEnvelope]

I don't like it. Nothing against Hart. He's a decent role player who can help but where is he going to play? I really don't want to decrease Grimes minutes or send Deuce to the dog house.

Pointless trade that doesn't make a difference imo UNLESS there is a follow up trade today.

[ag3]

Love this trade. Hart is a tenacious player.

We could get into the 2nd round now or better and the pick we give to the Blazers would be mid 20s.

[Knicks Byke]

who's minutes is he taking though?

[iLLmatic860]

People are saying Knicks overpaid

thoughts?

[mpharris36]

I like Hart as a player and I think i would be more excited about the move if I expected Thibs to get creative with lineups. Hart is like the best rebounding guard 6'5 and under in the NBA. You can play smaller lineups and not take too much of a hit rebounding. The Knicks can plays some Randle at the 5 lineups and just switch everything which will add a new wrinkle.

But I don't think Thibs is creative like that.

[Deeeez Knicks]

People are saying Knicks overpaid

thoughts?

They did pay a heavy price since Hart will be a free agent. Blazers made out really well for someone they weren't keeping.

For it to work out Thibs has to figure out how to use him right and Knicks need to be able to resign him to a reasonable deal

[BKlutch]

Clyde: Hart to Hart for the Slam!

[Capn'O]

My concern is what happens with IQ. He's been one of our best players.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I like Hart as a player and I think i would be more excited about the move if I expected Thibs to get creative with lineups. Hart is like the best rebounding guard 6'5 and under in the NBA. You can play smaller lineups and not take too much of a hit rebounding. The Knicks can plays some Randle at the 5 lineups and just switch everything which will add a new wrinkle.

But I don't think Thibs is creative like that.

Hart is a good fit for those small ball, wing heavy lineups that can play fast. Almost every team in the league plays that way for a stretch of minutes and Thibs has always refused small ball...he would rather play Sims/Hartenstein together then play small ball. We will see if he ever changes.

[ag3]

People are saying Knicks overpaid

thoughts?

They did pay a heavy price since Hart will be a free agent. Blazers made out really well for someone they weren't keeping.

For it to work out Thibs has to figure out how to use him right and Knicks need to be able to resign him to a reasonable deal

Knicks control his Bird rights.