Thibs needs to go

[WaltFrazier]

Who is the best choice for next coach?

Johnny Bryant
Dan Hurley
Jay Wright

Another young assistant ready to be a head coach

Is there a former HC/ current assistant in waiting, a la Atkinson?

[JBreezeNY]

Thibs sucks but the roster is a mess. There's no depth, Hart can't shoot and Mikal is as beta as they come, plus he lacks the secondary creation the team needs.

face it, most true contenders have two guys who can handle the ball and score. The Knicks have one. On the entire roster.

Probably why the Lakers will come out of the West. Mavs gifting them Luka basically gives them a version of Jordan/Pippen.

It's more like Pippen/Pippen, but you get the point.

Boston has Tatum/Brown
Cavs have Mitchell/Garland

Even Nuggets have Murry/Jokic, and while Jokic isn't a wing, he's just the best passing big ever

Knicks have:

Brunson and ? Corny bitch face Mikal?

The bench is thin and untalented.

Mitch is an injury waiting to happen, and when he's in, then you can't play Hart or Precious, because then the shooting and spacing would suck.

Precious creates his own issues of spacing in combination with Hart.

Too many flawed players and then the lack of depth means if the Knicks have even ONE player out of the top 6 players (including Deuce here), then they can't compete with nearly anyone.

And of course Thibs is completely hide bound in his approach, so he can't adjust when missing a player.


Team isn't worth watching anymore until they unf*ck the roster AND the coach.

Only thing i disagree with is the secondary playmaker. Mikal is the guy but there is no plays being called for him to be in that role. He was utilizing the pick and roll as a ball handler heavily before with the nets and had success with it. It’s like taking Klay away from shooting off screens and just asking him to create for himself, nightmare.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

We're giving up more threes than we make, we're playing losing basketball but being saved by Brunson, not by anything the coach does.

Our opponents take threes while we hunt for post ups, a losing strategy.

That's it literally! Since february (13 games) we are 8-5 but all our wins except the game against the Pacers were close wins with 6 points or less. 3 Overtime wins, beat the Raptors and Rockets by 6 in regulation, the Sixers by 5 and a 1 point win against Memphis. We are a -75 in our last 13 games. If it wasn't for Brunson being the best player in the clutch we could be easily sitting on a 35-26 type or record right now. We literally won almost every close game.

Keep in mind that statistically the Knicks had the least injuries so far in the season! If you take all these signs together it really does not bode well for the team going forward.

I checked where our shots come in the shot clock, and 11% of our shots are defined as late (7-4 secs), which is the 3rd highest mark, and 10.4% of our shots are very late (4-0 secs), which is 6th highest. Almost a quarter of our shots are late in the shot clock, Brunson & KAT are taking trash and turning it into gold basically. The offense is strictly based around talent and nothing else, Brunson is the team.

[HopelessKnick]

Who is the best choice for next coach?

Johnny Bryant
Dan Hurley
Jay Wright

Another young assistant ready to be a head coach

Is there a former HC/ current assistant in waiting, a la Atkinson?

I liked Johnny Bryant---at least heard a lot of positive things during his time here. Don't know how he would fare as a head coach but maybe worth a try.

[spree8]

We're giving up more threes than we make, we're playing losing basketball but being saved by Brunson, not by anything the coach does.

Our opponents take threes while we hunt for post ups, a losing strategy.

That's it literally! Since february (13 games) we are 8-5 but all our wins except the game against the Pacers were close wins with 6 points or less. 3 Overtime wins, beat the Raptors and Rockets by 6 in regulation, the Sixers by 5 and a 1 point win against Memphis. We are a -75 in our last 13 games. If it wasn't for Brunson being the best player in the clutch we could be easily sitting on a 35-26 type or record right now. We literally won almost every close game.

Keep in mind that statistically the Knicks had the least injuries so far in the season! If you take all these signs together it really does not bode well for the team going forward.

I checked where our shots come in the shot clock, and 11% of our shots are defined as late (7-4 secs), which is the 3rd highest mark, and 10.4% of our shots are very late (4-0 secs), which is 6th highest. Almost a quarter of our shots are late in the shot clock, Brunson & KAT are taking trash and turning it into gold basically. The offense is strictly based around talent and nothing else, Brunson is the team.

Nice work. Glad the stats back up what I been posting for months about…. hearing someone on our staff screaming to shoot the ball with 3-5 seconds left on the clock 100 times per game is not the makings of a good offense.

[WaltFrazier]

We're giving up more threes than we make, we're playing losing basketball but being saved by Brunson, not by anything the coach does.

Our opponents take threes while we hunt for post ups, a losing strategy.

That's it literally! Since february (13 games) we are 8-5 but all our wins except the game against the Pacers were close wins with 6 points or less. 3 Overtime wins, beat the Raptors and Rockets by 6 in regulation, the Sixers by 5 and a 1 point win against Memphis. We are a -75 in our last 13 games. If it wasn't for Brunson being the best player in the clutch we could be easily sitting on a 35-26 type or record right now. We literally won almost every close game.

Keep in mind that statistically the Knicks had the least injuries so far in the season! If you take all these signs together it really does not bode well for the team going forward.

I checked where our shots come in the shot clock, and 11% of our shots are defined as late (7-4 secs), which is the 3rd highest mark, and 10.4% of our shots are very late (4-0 secs), which is 6th highest. Almost a quarter of our shots are late in the shot clock, Brunson & KAT are taking trash and turning it into gold basically. The offense is strictly based around talent and nothing else, Brunson is the team.

Part of the late shot clock is the team dribbles or runs a weave aimlessly before looking to penetrate. IE it takes too long to get the offense moving. And JB overdribbling is often a big part of that.

[HopelessKnick]

That's it literally! Since february (13 games) we are 8-5 but all our wins except the game against the Pacers were close wins with 6 points or less. 3 Overtime wins, beat the Raptors and Rockets by 6 in regulation, the Sixers by 5 and a 1 point win against Memphis. We are a -75 in our last 13 games. If it wasn't for Brunson being the best player in the clutch we could be easily sitting on a 35-26 type or record right now. We literally won almost every close game.

Keep in mind that statistically the Knicks had the least injuries so far in the season! If you take all these signs together it really does not bode well for the team going forward.

I checked where our shots come in the shot clock, and 11% of our shots are defined as late (7-4 secs), which is the 3rd highest mark, and 10.4% of our shots are very late (4-0 secs), which is 6th highest. Almost a quarter of our shots are late in the shot clock, Brunson & KAT are taking trash and turning it into gold basically. The offense is strictly based around talent and nothing else, Brunson is the team.

Nice work. Glad the stats back up what I been posting for months about…. hearing someone on our staff screaming to shoot the ball with 3-5 seconds left on the clock 100 times per game is not the makings of a good offense.

We have two guys worth 25points on 50/40/80. That's how this team is winning games. And no it has nothing to do with Thibs---both these players were shooting same percentages on their previous teams.....they are just brilliant offensive players.

We got two supposedly elite defensive wings and have some other good defensive players like Deuce an Precious. We are terrible on defense----so the question is: What exactly is Thibs achieving here?

BTW have been reading in multiple different articles, post and youtube videos that Hart and Towns are both battling knee injuries that seem to have resulted from overuse which has made Hart's level of play fall off a cliff.....who is surprised?

[thebuzzardman]

Thibs sucks but the roster is a mess. There's no depth, Hart can't shoot and Mikal is as beta as they come, plus he lacks the secondary creation the team needs.

face it, most true contenders have two guys who can handle the ball and score. The Knicks have one. On the entire roster.

Probably why the Lakers will come out of the West. Mavs gifting them Luka basically gives them a version of Jordan/Pippen.

It's more like Pippen/Pippen, but you get the point.

Boston has Tatum/Brown
Cavs have Mitchell/Garland

Even Nuggets have Murry/Jokic, and while Jokic isn't a wing, he's just the best passing big ever

Knicks have:

Brunson and ? Corny bitch face Mikal?

The bench is thin and untalented.

Mitch is an injury waiting to happen, and when he's in, then you can't play Hart or Precious, because then the shooting and spacing would suck.

Precious creates his own issues of spacing in combination with Hart.

Too many flawed players and then the lack of depth means if the Knicks have even ONE player out of the top 6 players (including Deuce here), then they can't compete with nearly anyone.

And of course Thibs is completely hide bound in his approach, so he can't adjust when missing a player.


Team isn't worth watching anymore until they unf*ck the roster AND the coach.

Only thing i disagree with is the secondary playmaker. Mikal is the guy but there is no plays being called for him to be in that role. He was utilizing the pick and roll as a ball handler heavily before with the nets and had success with it. It’s like taking Klay away from shooting off screens and just asking him to create for himself, nightmare.

Eh, it's probably 50/50.

If he could really do it, they'd do it.
Of course, Thibs has zero imagination, so that's an issue too.

Also, Mikal on the Nets = ok player getting lots of touches on a bad team. Leon got fleeced.

They can both go away.

[HopelessKnick]

Thibs sucks but the roster is a mess. There's no depth, Hart can't shoot and Mikal is as beta as they come, plus he lacks the secondary creation the team needs.

face it, most true contenders have two guys who can handle the ball and score. The Knicks have one. On the entire roster.

Probably why the Lakers will come out of the West. Mavs gifting them Luka basically gives them a version of Jordan/Pippen.

It's more like Pippen/Pippen, but you get the point.

Boston has Tatum/Brown
Cavs have Mitchell/Garland

Even Nuggets have Murry/Jokic, and while Jokic isn't a wing, he's just the best passing big ever

Knicks have:

Brunson and ? Corny bitch face Mikal?

The bench is thin and untalented.

Mitch is an injury waiting to happen, and when he's in, then you can't play Hart or Precious, because then the shooting and spacing would suck.

Precious creates his own issues of spacing in combination with Hart.

Too many flawed players and then the lack of depth means if the Knicks have even ONE player out of the top 6 players (including Deuce here), then they can't compete with nearly anyone.

And of course Thibs is completely hide bound in his approach, so he can't adjust when missing a player.


Team isn't worth watching anymore until they unf*ck the roster AND the coach.

Only thing i disagree with is the secondary playmaker. Mikal is the guy but there is no plays being called for him to be in that role. He was utilizing the pick and roll as a ball handler heavily before with the nets and had success with it. It’s like taking Klay away from shooting off screens and just asking him to create for himself, nightmare.

Eh, it's probably 50/50.

If he could really do it, they'd do it.
Of course, Thibs has zero imagination, so that's an issue too.

Also, Mikal on the Nets = ok player getting lots of touches on a bad team. Leon got fleeced.

They can both go away.

To be fair to Mikal though....it is really not his fault that Leon overpaid for him. So we should if we can, as much as possible, refrain from hating on him. Like imagine a world where we only gave up the Bucks pick and our own 2025 FRP for him. I think we'd all be by and large happy with his (inconsistent) play. The price makes everyone having soured on him. I try to keep that in mind.

[kNicksGmen]

Only thing i disagree with is the secondary playmaker. Mikal is the guy but there is no plays being called for him to be in that role. He was utilizing the pick and roll as a ball handler heavily before with the nets and had success with it. It’s like taking Klay away from shooting off screens and just asking him to create for himself, nightmare.

Eh, it's probably 50/50.

If he could really do it, they'd do it.
Of course, Thibs has zero imagination, so that's an issue too.

Also, Mikal on the Nets = ok player getting lots of touches on a bad team. Leon got fleeced.

They can both go away.

To be fair to Mikal though....it is really not his fault that Leon overpaid for him. So we should if we can, as much as possible, refrain from hating on him. Like imagine a world where we only gave up the Bucks pick and our own 2025 FRP for him. I think we'd all be by and large happy with his (inconsistent) play. The price makes everyone having soured on him. I try to keep that in mind.

that's fair but i also think everyone made excuses for his poor play on the nets which should have always been a red flag. everyone assumed he would be way better on the knicks without the burden of being the #1 option (even though he really was the #2 on the nets last year).

[rayraypico]

I know I am in the minority, but Thibs is a good coach. Yes I get the shortfalls player minutes etc, but we got Towns, added offense lost defense, and that's what the team is doing, scoring in the upper echelon of the league. He needs to hold players accountable on defense which has never been a problem. I watched Town 2 games ago and he gave up like 7-8 layups to the Heat with minimal effort, that's on the head coach if a player is not competing on one end, don't leave him out there.

[WaltFrazier]

Only thing i disagree with is the secondary playmaker. Mikal is the guy but there is no plays being called for him to be in that role. He was utilizing the pick and roll as a ball handler heavily before with the nets and had success with it. It’s like taking Klay away from shooting off screens and just asking him to create for himself, nightmare.

Eh, it's probably 50/50.

If he could really do it, they'd do it.
Of course, Thibs has zero imagination, so that's an issue too.

Also, Mikal on the Nets = ok player getting lots of touches on a bad team. Leon got fleeced.

They can both go away.

To be fair to Mikal though....it is really not his fault that Leon overpaid for him. So we should if we can, as much as possible, refrain from hating on him. Like imagine a world where we only gave up the Bucks pick and our own 2025 FRP for him. I think we'd all be by and large happy with his (inconsistent) play. The price makes everyone having soured on him. I try to keep that in mind.

If we'd only given up two picks for him then we could have made another move by now. So it would be a different scenario.

Agree about hating on the player

[HopelessKnick]

Eh, it's probably 50/50.

If he could really do it, they'd do it.
Of course, Thibs has zero imagination, so that's an issue too.

Also, Mikal on the Nets = ok player getting lots of touches on a bad team. Leon got fleeced.

They can both go away.

To be fair to Mikal though....it is really not his fault that Leon overpaid for him. So we should if we can, as much as possible, refrain from hating on him. Like imagine a world where we only gave up the Bucks pick and our own 2025 FRP for him. I think we'd all be by and large happy with his (inconsistent) play. The price makes everyone having soured on him. I try to keep that in mind.

that's fair but i also think everyone made excuses for his poor play on the nets which should have always been a red flag. everyone assumed he would be way better on the knicks without the burden of being the #1 option (even though he really was the #2 on the nets last year).

Definitely. Today it looks like his decline on the Nets was "real" and not a lack of motivation or just being on a bad team. However, I can also understand the rational behind acquiring him---he was a superb defender and very consistant shooter on the Suns and his team made it to the finals. He was averaging like 38% from 3 and 85% from the FT line and shooting close to 50% from the field. I think the idea was he could be that elite wing defender that is super efficient on offense as a third option. I think it was not easy to predict that his play would level off so much. I mean who would have thought his shot would go from very smooth to having a set point 1 foot above and behind his head. That's crazy.

That being said the price was excessive anyway we look at it. Like 5FRPs was just way too much. 4 would have been steep already but 5 was just crazy. Leon misjudged unfortunately. I think the added fact that players like DFS and Hunter who are comparable were traded for a minimal fraction of that price has really added insult to injury. Unfortunately.

[JayTWill]

To be fair to Mikal though....it is really not his fault that Leon overpaid for him. So we should if we can, as much as possible, refrain from hating on him. Like imagine a world where we only gave up the Bucks pick and our own 2025 FRP for him. I think we'd all be by and large happy with his (inconsistent) play. The price makes everyone having soured on him. I try to keep that in mind.

that's fair but i also think everyone made excuses for his poor play on the nets which should have always been a red flag. everyone assumed he would be way better on the knicks without the burden of being the #1 option (even though he really was the #2 on the nets last year).

Definitely. Today it looks like his decline on the Nets was "real" and not a lack of motivation or just being on a bad team. However, I can also understand the rational behind acquiring him---he was a superb defender and very consistant shooter on the Suns and his team made it to the finals. He was averaging like 38% from 3 and 85% from the FT line and shooting close to 50% from the field. I think the idea was he could be that elite wing defender that is super efficient on offense as a third option. I think it was not easy to predict that his play would level off so much. I mean who would have thought his shot would go from very smooth to having a set point 1 foot above and behind his head. That's crazy.

That being said the price was excessive anyway we look at it. Like 5FRPs was just way too much. 4 would have been steep already but 5 was just crazy. Leon misjudged unfortunately. I think the added fact that players like DFS and Hunter who are comparable were traded for a minimal fraction of that price has really added insult to injury. Unfortunately.

I feel like people did overrate Brooklyn Mikal in some ways but i'm not sure if Phoenix Mikal would have done much better here either. He was a lower volume player playing less minutes with less responsibility on both ends of the court. Just last game he essentially guarded Curry for the entire game. In Phoenix he would be sharing that responsibility. For Thibs he was matched with him minute for minute and almost possession for possession. Very few players are asked to do that.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/201939/head-to-head?Matchup=Offense&PerMode=PerGame&Season=2024-25

The guys that take on that role of full time top perimeter option defender generally aren't asked to do much offensively and they definitely aren't doing it while leading the league in minutes. They are attempting to scale Phoenix Mikal to a bigger role on both ends of the court. I'm not sure if it is possible even if he improves his jumpshot but that would definitely help. Also playing next to Chris Paul is different from playing next to Brunson on both ends of the court.

I have no idea why they gave up 5 picks, a swap and a good 2nd. I try to remember that Bogey's value was negative at the time of the deal but I didn't want to pay more than 2 unprotected 1st's for Mikal if they were attached to a neutral value contract which Bogey wasn't.

[drekwins]

Who is the best choice for next coach?

Johnny Bryant
Dan Hurley
Jay Wright

Another young assistant ready to be a head coach

Is there a former HC/ current assistant in waiting, a la Atkinson?

Whoever doesn't promote a drop coverage defensive scheme.

[thebuzzardman]

Brunson/Payne
Deuce/Hart
Bridges/Hart
OG/KAT/Hart
KAT/Mitch

Situational, foul trouble: Precious, Shamet or Warren (if called up)

Just get it done already Thibs, you r*tard

[knicks94]

You have to be completely brain dead to continue defending this clown.

[Kidknick!]

At this point, this team is winning IN SPITE of the Coach. No offensive creativity, a defense predicated on GIVING up 3's in the modern NBA.

THE CEILING HAS BEEN HIT. FOH Penguin.

[NiceLikeChrist]

Wish I was a fly on the wall of the front office. I pray that moving on from thibs has at least been a topic of discussion this season

If not then the FO is as much to blame. They are blind

[Butch718]

Maybe the Knicks losing with Brunson out will force the front office to come to terms with Thibs not being the proper coach for this team.