[Camelo Thread Part 17] - Denver makes trade offer p58

[BigUgly]

Troy ,

I am enjoying this friendly debate . The bottom line to me is having a team that can win 50 plus and contend and in the end making a title run. I just dont see how guys like Gallo and Mosgov put us there. We do not know if we can sign Melo outright there are alot of what ifs in that . Who knows what the new CBA will bring. I think that have a core of Felton - Fields- Melo -Amare can compete for a tile if the right role players are around them. I Amare needs Melo in my opinion it would make his life easier and make him last longer . Maybe i am over rating Anthony i just think he is a top 15 player at worst and those guys are hard to find

[NewEra]

Ugh!!!

[King of Troy]

Troy ,

I am enjoying this friendly debate . The bottom line to me is having a team that can win 50 plus and contend and in the end making a title run. I just dont see how guys like Gallo and Mosgov put us there. We do not know if we can sign Melo outright there are alot of what ifs in that . Who knows what the new CBA will bring. I think that have a core of Felton - Fields- Melo -Amare can compete for a tile if the right role players are around them. I Amare needs Melo in my opinion it would make his life easier and make him last longer . Maybe i am over rating Anthony i just think he is a top 15 player at worst and those guys are hard to find

I agree that Melo is a top15 player. However, I do not see Melo and Amare forming a championship caliber team.

If it was Chris Paul or Deron Williams, then yes. Then I think role players can come in and form a very good team. However, I don't think having two guys at the 3 and 4 spot, who don't play defense, can lead to a championship. A transcendent point guard I believe would take us to another level. However, I do not think that a 3 and a 4, no matter how good offensively, could do that. I honestly believe that a PG like Paul or William would lead to a greater team efficiency on the offensive end then Melo would. We'd have two great scoring players with those two, but a PG would make the team better as a whole, and it would be from there that we can improve through role players.

That is why I don't want to give up a lot of depth for Melo, because he doesn't have the ability to make the entire team better like a great PG. He does not orchestrate an offense. Because we are investing so much in these two guys, who do not play defense, our offense must be as efficient as possible, and this will not be the case when our two star players are a 3 and a 4.

So, if we are going to get Melo, we then need to maintain depth as much as possible. We won't have the luxury of being able to make mediocre talent look good like Steve Nash did in Phoenix. We lack an orchestrator to boost their levels of play. Instead we have two grind it out scorerers, and to win with them we need to maximize the talent around them to compensate for their defensive inability, and to provide offensive option to help aid their efficiency by providing threats off the ball and prevent double and triple teaming.

To me, it is problematic because while Melo may very well indeed resign or go elsewhere if we do not trade for him, I think it is a risk we must take. If we give all our depth up for him, I do not see us as having any chance of winning a championship. However, if we do risk it, I think we do have a chance. This is why I believe we should take the risk of trying to sign him as a FA.

[falcindor]

Troy ,

I am enjoying this friendly debate . The bottom line to me is having a team that can win 50 plus and contend and in the end making a title run. I just dont see how guys like Gallo and Mosgov put us there. We do not know if we can sign Melo outright there are alot of what ifs in that . Who knows what the new CBA will bring. I think that have a core of Felton - Fields- Melo -Amare can compete for a tile if the right role players are around them. I Amare needs Melo in my opinion it would make his life easier and make him last longer . Maybe i am over rating Anthony i just think he is a top 15 player at worst and those guys are hard to find

If your a team like NJ yes you give up the farm because you are no big market team. They couldn't attract a big free agent with room for 2 maxes this past summer. Knicks are not in the same boat. The asking price is crazy. No other before free agent unload cost 1/2 this. If he were mid contract it would make some sense. But they are gouging teams.

[K_ick_God]

Troy ,

I am enjoying this friendly debate . The bottom line to me is having a team that can win 50 plus and contend and in the end making a title run. I just dont see how guys like Gallo and Mosgov put us there. We do not know if we can sign Melo outright there are alot of what ifs in that . Who knows what the new CBA will bring. I think that have a core of Felton - Fields- Melo -Amare can compete for a tile if the right role players are around them. I Amare needs Melo in my opinion it would make his life easier and make him last longer . Maybe i am over rating Anthony i just think he is a top 15 player at worst and those guys are hard to find

I agree that Melo is a top15 player. However, I do not see Melo and Amare forming a championship caliber team.

If it was Chris Paul or Deron Williams, then yes. Then I think role players can come in and form a very good team. However, I don't think having two guys at the 3 and 4 spot, who don't play defense, can lead to a championship. A transcendent point guard I believe would take us to another level. However, I do not think that a 3 and a 4, no matter how good offensively, could do that. I honestly believe that a PG like Paul or William would lead to a greater team efficiency on the offensive end then Melo would. We'd have two great scoring players with those two, but a PG would make the team better as a whole, and it would be from there that we can improve through role players.

That is why I don't want to give up a lot of depth for Melo, because he doesn't have the ability to make the entire team better like a great PG. He does not orchestrate an offense. Because we are investing so much in these two guys, who do not play defense, our offense must be as efficient as possible, and this will not be the case when our two star players are a 3 and a 4.

So, if we are going to get Melo, we then need to maintain depth as much as possible. We won't have the luxury of being able to make mediocre talent look good like Steve Nash did in Phoenix. We lack an orchestrator to boost their levels of play. Instead we have two grind it out scorerers, and to win with them we need to maximize the talent around them to compensate for their defensive inability, and to provide offensive option to help aid their efficiency by providing threats off the ball and prevent double and triple teaming.

To me, it is problematic because while Melo may very well indeed resign or go elsewhere if we do not trade for him, I think it is a risk we must take. If we give all our depth up for him, I do not see us as having any chance of winning a championship. However, if we do risk it, I think we do have a
chance. This is why I believe we should take the risk of trying to sign him as a FA.

This is a persuasive theory. Melo may only be worth it if he comes at a very good price.

[King of Troy]

Also worth mentioning, which I've been saying before the season started when the Melo talk first crept up, is that keeping assets when getting Melo gives us assets to get another premier player, Paul or Deron preferably. We lose any ability to trade for them if we give up our assets for Melo. By signing him as a FA, we can then trade our remaining assets for a premier play maker like the aforementioned pointguards.

[TrueWarrior]

Troy ,

I am enjoying this friendly debate . The bottom line to me is having a team that can win 50 plus and contend and in the end making a title run. I just dont see how guys like Gallo and Mosgov put us there. We do not know if we can sign Melo outright there are alot of what ifs in that . Who knows what the new CBA will bring. I think that have a core of Felton - Fields- Melo -Amare can compete for a tile if the right role players are around them. I Amare needs Melo in my opinion it would make his life easier and make him last longer . Maybe i am over rating Anthony i just think he is a top 15 player at worst and those guys are hard to find

I agree that Melo is a top15 player. However, I do not see Melo and Amare forming a championship caliber team.

If it was Chris Paul or Deron Williams, then yes. Then I think role players can come in and form a very good team. However, I don't think having two guys at the 3 and 4 spot, who don't play defense, can lead to a championship. A transcendent point guard I believe would take us to another level. However, I do not think that a 3 and a 4, no matter how good offensively, could do that. I honestly believe that a PG like Paul or William would lead to a greater team efficiency on the offensive end then Melo would. We'd have two great scoring players with those two, but a PG would make the team better as a whole, and it would be from there that we can improve through role players.

That is why I don't want to give up a lot of depth for Melo, because he doesn't have the ability to make the entire team better like a great PG. He does not orchestrate an offense. Because we are investing so much in these two guys, who do not play defense, our offense must be as efficient as possible, and this will not be the case when our two star players are a 3 and a 4.

So, if we are going to get Melo, we then need to maintain depth as much as possible. We won't have the luxury of being able to make mediocre talent look good like Steve Nash did in Phoenix. We lack an orchestrator to boost their levels of play. Instead we have two grind it out scorerers, and to win with them we need to maximize the talent around them to compensate for their defensive inability, and to provide offensive option to help aid their efficiency by providing threats off the ball and prevent double and triple teaming.

To me, it is problematic because while Melo may very well indeed resign or go elsewhere if we do not trade for him, I think it is a risk we must take. If we give all our depth up for him, I do not see us as having any chance of winning a championship. However, if we do risk it, I think we do have a chance. This is why I believe we should take the risk of trying to sign him as a FA.

Great post man. Ive been saying most of these same things a lot lately.

If Melo and/or Amare had more playmaking ability I think the pairing could work. But Melo is no Lebron/JJohnson/Wade/Roy/Pierce/Kobe and Amare is no Duncan/Webber/Gasol. Both of them are scorers in the purest sense. They arent playmakers. They are also not great defenders. Sure Amare will get some weakside blocks, but his man defense is a joke. While Melo plays some mediocre man defense when he feels like it, but his team defense is a joke. Not exactly the recipe for success.

Has any team in history won the championship with a duo like Melo/Amare? I really dont know and I dont feel like looking it up, but it doesnt seem like the greatest complementary pairing.

To be quite honest I wouldnt mind getting Melo and then trading Amare . Melo is the younger/more durable player to build around. Crazy I know but think about it.

I really just dont see Amare/Melo doing great things unless we bring in a great PG and defensive specialists. Felton is not that guy at point. Felton is more of a scorer and his passing is incredibly uncreative. He plays more like a combo guard than a true PG, especially when it comes to this system that is relies so heavily on the pick and roll, which is Felton's nemesis. With that said Felton is going to have a chance to prove he can be a true floor general/pass first if Melo arrives. We'll see how he responds but I really think the PG will be the key to making Melo/Amare work more than ANYTHING else. Then adding defensive bigs and wings will be next.

So yes I agree with you 100% Troy. We need to be firm here and willing to wait until Free Agency. We need Melo not to lose his balls. I think its a risk we need to take as well if we're looking at the big picture. The more assets we keep the better we'll be, but also have more options in trades. I WANT A RING. Not the Atlanta Hawks.

[BasicBall]

Damn all the number crunching etc.

Carmelo Anthony is a BEAST! If they can get him, they need to go head and get him! I expect him to be wearing Orange & Blue by the end of next week!

[Context]

While I agree with most of what True W. and Troy has written. I think you guys are exaggerating the negatives of a Amare&Melo tandem. Everything comes back to "context". I think if you put strong defenders around these two, you strengthen the bench defensively, and you bring in a coach that Amare and Stat RESPECT. Both guys will step their game up and we can beat any team in the league with the exception of the Lakers (right now). And that is precisely why we can't trade Moz because we need this guy to develop into a beast on the defensive end.

[King of Troy]

Damn all the number crunching etc.

Carmelo Anthony is a BEAST! If they can get him, they need to go head and get him! I expect him to be wearing Orange & Blue by the end of next week!

So you'd be willing to risk a change at a championship in favor of almost guaranteed mediocrity?

[King of Troy]

While I agree with most of what True W. and Troy has written. I think you guys are exaggerating the negatives of a Amare&Melo tandem. Everything comes back to "context". I think if you put strong defenders around these two, you strengthen the bench defensively, and you bring in a coach that Amare and Stat RESPECT. Both guys will step their game up and we can beat any team in the league with the exception of the Lakers (right now). And that is precisely why we can't trade Moz because we need this guy to develop into a beast on the defensive end.

The problem is how you get those piece to put around them, and if those pieces will be good enough to compensate for their inability to defend.

[K_ick_God]

Damn all the number crunching etc.

Carmelo Anthony is a BEAST! If they can get him, they need to go head and get him! I expect him to be wearing Orange & Blue by the end of next week!

So you'd be willing to risk a change at a championship in favor of almost guaranteed mediocrity?

I think the Hawks comparison is good. We could get to that level and be stuck at it, but even the Hawks have Horford and good parts like Josh Smith. I think we'd be potentially much worse than that.

A gutted roster with Amar'e and Melo strikes me as a recipe for a possible disaster. Neither Melo nor Amar'e is complete enough as players to carry that team to greatness, and it could fall into the abyss a la Marbury.

[Context]

While I agree with most of what True W. and Troy has written. I think you guys are exaggerating the negatives of a Amare&Melo tandem. Everything comes back to "context". I think if you put strong defenders around these two, you strengthen the bench defensively, and you bring in a coach that Amare and Stat RESPECT. Both guys will step their game up and we can beat any team in the league with the exception of the Lakers (right now). And that is precisely why we can't trade Moz because we need this guy to develop into a beast on the defensive end.

The problem is how you get those piece to put around them, and if those pieces will be good enough to compensate for their inability to defend.

We need to keep moz and fields and i think Felton will be fine. I am speaking of the bench. I like TD with the exception of his size- he needs to work on his size.

If you didn't know Troy I believe that we need to call Denver's bluff(assuming that they are still bluffing).
I believe Melo is smarter than most here think.

[FL69ers]

This is my first time posting on this site, but I've been reading for weeks waiting for that day I check and see that Melo is a knick, here are my two cents:


1) Denver really reallly really really doesn't want to trade Melo unless they are blown away by an offer

2) Nuggets still believe as crazy as it may seem that Melo will sign the extension

3) Nuggets are hopeful that if there is a new CBA that something like a franchise tag will be put on players

4) Knicks do not want to give up everything for Melo

5) They might want to take the risk of signing him as a Free Agent

6) Dolan and most fans want Melo now

7) Donnie wants to make a trade, but Denver will never say the offer the knicks have is good enough

End result and is just a prediction: Melo stays with Denver. I think despite the knicks attempts, Denver would rather hold onto him and get Lebron'd then trade him to the knicks. I think the Denver front office will take a huge PR hit if they trade him to the knicks, I think they will find it easier to let him go, and then paint Melo as the villian

[darthkiller]

no our current roster is headed for mediocrity , if we add melo, melo+ amare guarentee you a good playoff spot and a chance to beat any team.

[BasicBall]

Damn all the number crunching etc.

Carmelo Anthony is a BEAST! If they can get him, they need to go head and get him! I expect him to be wearing Orange & Blue by the end of next week!

So you'd be willing to risk a change at a championship in favor of almost guaranteed mediocrity?

We are mediocre now my friend. When you can acquire a top 5 offensive talent in his prime, you do it. Amare and Melo are offensive machines. Mike D as flawed as he is as a coach needs offensive talent in his system. Felton (if not dealt) along with Melo and Amare gives NY a real good jump on being a serious title contender. I trust that Donnie and his basketball management team will surround those two offensive monsters with the required pieces that would put NY in the championship conversation going forward.

I say go get Melo now and worry about next season when next season gets here. I will put it to you this way, NY has never had 2 players on the team at the same time like Melo & Amare in at least 25 years. I have no idea how old you are, but this would be like Ewing & Benard King ACTUALLY playing together in their primes. And if you didn't know Bernard King was a scoring machine (like Melo)


For all this defense wins titles talk (which I know to be true, to a certain extent) The object of the game is to out-score the opponent. Better offense will for the most part always beat good defense, in my opinion!

[BowlRips]

This is my first time posting on this site, but I've been reading for weeks waiting for that day I check and see that Melo is a knick, here are my two cents:


1) Denver really reallly really really doesn't want to trade Melo unless they are blown away by an offer

2) Nuggets still believe as crazy as it may seem that Melo will sign the extension

3) Nuggets are hopeful that if there is a new CBA that something like a franchise tag will be put on players

4) Knicks do not want to give up everything for Melo

5) They might want to take the risk of signing him as a Free Agent

6) Dolan and most fans want Melo now

7) Donnie wants to make a trade, but Denver will never say the offer the knicks have is good enough

End result and is just a prediction: Melo stays with Denver. I think despite the knicks attempts, Denver would rather hold onto him and get Lebron'd then trade him to the knicks. I think the Denver front office will take a huge PR hit if they trade him to the knicks, I think they will find it easier to let him go, and then paint Melo as the villian

However painting Melo as a villain doesn't help you.

Cleveland painted LBJ as a villain and trust me thats not helping there 9-46 record.

The fans in denver would rather have Gallo, WIlson and picks then have a 9-46 record next season and nothing to look forward too.

I think the deal gets done 2 days before the deadline. Something like Gallo, Chandler, Felton, Curry for Melo, JR Smith and Billups

[darthkiller]

This is my first time posting on this site, but I've been reading for weeks waiting for that day I check and see that Melo is a knick, here are my two cents:


1) Denver really reallly really really doesn't want to trade Melo unless they are blown away by an offer

2) Nuggets still believe as crazy as it may seem that Melo will sign the extension

3) Nuggets are hopeful that if there is a new CBA that something like a franchise tag will be put on players

4) Knicks do not want to give up everything for Melo

5) They might want to take the risk of signing him as a Free Agent

6) Dolan and most fans want Melo now

7) Donnie wants to make a trade, but Denver will never say the offer the knicks have is good enough

End result and is just a prediction: Melo stays with Denver. I think despite the knicks attempts, Denver would rather hold onto him and get Lebron'd then trade him to the knicks. I think the Denver front office will take a huge PR hit if they trade him to the knicks, I think they will find it easier to let him go, and then paint Melo as the villian

so you think denver fans would rather see melo leaves for nothing and the team turn into the cavs next season?

[BasicBall]

This is my first time posting on this site, but I've been reading for weeks waiting for that day I check and see that Melo is a knick, here are my two cents:


1) Denver really reallly really really doesn't want to trade Melo unless they are blown away by an offer

2) Nuggets still believe as crazy as it may seem that Melo will sign the extension

3) Nuggets are hopeful that if there is a new CBA that something like a franchise tag will be put on players

4) Knicks do not want to give up everything for Melo

5) They might want to take the risk of signing him as a Free Agent

6) Dolan and most fans want Melo now

7) Donnie wants to make a trade, but Denver will never say the offer the knicks have is good enough

End result and is just a prediction: Melo stays with Denver. I think despite the knicks attempts, Denver would rather hold onto him and get Lebron'd then trade him to the knicks. I think the Denver front office will take a huge PR hit if they trade him to the knicks, I think they will find it easier to let him go, and then paint Melo as the villian

Good point about painting Melo as a villian. But at the end of the day, Denver will give in and a 4 team deal will evolve allowing Denver to be able to save face. Melo will be a Knick by the end of next week!

[knicks4ever2010]

is anyone listening to SAS on espn radio now?