PG Thread: FRANK GANG GANG UNITE - 'Remi Bomb: Pg 13

[Triple C]

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[Marty McFly]

so, how about that frank ntilikina?

moral of the story is...

Watch on YouTube

[Dr. Detfink]

Taking baby steps with Ntilikina seems to be the right decision. The front office and coaching staff deserve more credit than we give them.

What's more, we're on a path to having a fun and modern team to watch. We might finally not be behind the curve. If they can get another draft pick by trading vets we could have a fresh starting lineup next year.

PG: 3pt shooter
SG: Ntilikina
SF: Doncic
PF: P&R guy / rebounder
C: Porzingis

That is very much my dream vision for the Knicks.

[KnickFan33]

I can appreciate that Phil had a plan and was sticking to it. Tried to implement a culture. No trades that mortgaged the future for a quick fixes moves. I think Noah's contract is the only glaring mistake of his tenure. Lee's contract, while not ideal, is far from horrible.

I'd say the same for Walsh. Planned to free up cap space for a big summer of free agency, accomplished said plan, whiffed on signing anybody.

He tried to contend then immediately tried to rebuild, he gave a NTC then tried to get rid of the man he gave a NTC to, that is not sticking to a plan.

Ding ding ding we got a winnah!

Tried to contend, figured it wasn't going to work and changed direction. He stated from the start he wouldn't mortgage the future.

Do you honestly think if he didn't re-sign Melo it would have been taken kindly? Additionally, perhaps he thought he could win with Melo. He's coached a number of dominant offensive players who just needed to add the caveat of involving teammates in the offense. He's even called them out publicly when coaching them. He wasn't coaching the team, but it still worked before. I often read of people saying that a great coach needs to be able to adjust, the same can be said about players and the front office.

Regarding other moves... Afflalo was essentially on a one year deal. Not a big deal. He traded away Robin Lopez for Rose in a win now mode, which was harped on quite a bit, but Rose had 1 year left on his contract and we had our future at the Center position with KP and Hernangomez. Plus it gave us room to sign a free agent, unfortunately that turned out to be THJ. Those were not bad moves at all.

Again, only thing I can really harp on is the contract Noah received. Other than that, no move was necessarily cancerous.

[TankCommander17]

He tried to contend then immediately tried to rebuild, he gave a NTC then tried to get rid of the man he gave a NTC to, that is not sticking to a plan.

Ding ding ding we got a winnah!

Tried to contend, figured it wasn't going to work and changed direction. He stated from the start he wouldn't mortgage the future.

Do you honestly think if he didn't re-sign Melo it would have been taken kindly? Additionally, perhaps he thought he could win with Melo. He's coached a number of dominant offensive players who just needed to add the caveat of involving teammates in the offense. He's even called them out publicly when coaching them. He wasn't coaching the team, but it still worked before. I often read of people saying that a great coach needs to be able to adjust, the same can be said about players and the front office.

Regarding other moves... Afflalo was essentially on a one year deal. Not a big deal. He traded away Robin Lopez for Rose in a win now mode, which was harped on quite a bit, but Rose had 1 year left on his contract and we had our future at the Center position with KP and Hernangomez. Plus it gave us room to sign a free agent, unfortunately that turned out to be THJ. Those were not bad moves at all.

Again, only thing I can really harp on is the contract Noah received. Other than that, no move was necessarily cancerous.

No you don't get it. Your point was that he stuck to his plan. He didn't. He spent cap space to sign Rolo/Afflalo to pair with Melo and Calderon to get to the playoffs that didn't work. Then he tanked. He did it again with Noah/Lee/etc and he had to tank again.

His whole tenure was start/stop/start/stop. He didn;t do it just once. He did it in multiple years.

[Bill Pidto]

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This Knicks Film School thing is a god send.

[KnickFan33]

Ding ding ding we got a winnah!

Tried to contend, figured it wasn't going to work and changed direction. He stated from the start he wouldn't mortgage the future.

Do you honestly think if he didn't re-sign Melo it would have been taken kindly? Additionally, perhaps he thought he could win with Melo. He's coached a number of dominant offensive players who just needed to add the caveat of involving teammates in the offense. He's even called them out publicly when coaching them. He wasn't coaching the team, but it still worked before. I often read of people saying that a great coach needs to be able to adjust, the same can be said about players and the front office.

Regarding other moves... Afflalo was essentially on a one year deal. Not a big deal. He traded away Robin Lopez for Rose in a win now mode, which was harped on quite a bit, but Rose had 1 year left on his contract and we had our future at the Center position with KP and Hernangomez. Plus it gave us room to sign a free agent, unfortunately that turned out to be THJ. Those were not bad moves at all.

Again, only thing I can really harp on is the contract Noah received. Other than that, no move was necessarily cancerous.

No you don't get it. Your point was that he stuck to his plan. He didn't. He spent cap space to sign Rolo/Afflalo to pair with Melo and Calderon to get to the playoffs that didn't work. Then he tanked. He did it again with Noah/Lee/etc and he had to tank again.

His whole tenure was start/stop/start/stop. He didn;t do it just once. He did it in multiple years.

His plan was to try and be competitive, improvement in ball movement, and not mortgage the future. Which he tried. It just didn't work out.

[Capn'O]

He may end up great but what I saw in the clip you posted was a tall athlete who could handle. He was playing against short D3 talent, didn't shoot well and seems to have a slow release. Decent passer and should have been dominant on the boards but wasn't. A standout athletically but not much else stood out to me at this time.

Agreed. Very unpolished. But young.

In that range, Bridges is very polished comparatively.

how dare u question my scouting

banned!!!

I don't really have a read on how he could develop from a few minutes. The type of person he is really affects the outcome. Tools are obviously there.

[Capn'O]

Phil was awesome in my eyes. I'll always appreciate his tenure and remember it fondly.

Honestly, some of the best things about him were his brash personality and willingness to toy with the NY media. If you ask me, the Knicks needed someone like him to cleanse the franchise. Now, everyone's on their best behavior. He sacrificed his "legacy" to rebuild the team because he knew it was the right thing. So I laugh at anyone who says he came here to collect a check and simply didn't care. He cared enough to do something no one else ever had the balls to do here, and now we're all better off for it. Talk about a legacy.

Him tearing teams down to tank for lottery picks, getting screwed in the draft lottery the first time and still turning the pick into absolute gold, and very possibly the best player in that draft, is nothing short of heart-warming. Then for him to hit this last pick with Frank out of the park like many of us now suspect he did... to me... was all well-worth some of the heartache the fickle NY fans were forced to endure throughout his tenure. It was all worth it, and it's a shame there were so many who couldn't see it that way before they became so emotional.

The biggest mystery that remains to me is Melo's NTC. I know that wasn't Phil's idea, and I know he couldn't have been happy about it. I hope he writes about it all one day.

I always figure Phil (based on McKinsey's advice) played both sides of the "All In" coin. If the Knicks had been able to lure Aldridge or DeAndre in 2015 they become a more attractive destination for the big prize, Durant. Obviously, they didn't get those guys but that group with Melo could have been really good and some guys he would respect would've joined to play the point. So they gave it a one year shot with some high risk players in Rose and Noah for one last shot.

A bunch of posters called me all sorts of dumb when I tried to explain that if Rose/Noah didn't work Phil would try to move Melo. That much was obvious to me. He wasn't committed to that plan and Rose's (expiring) contract was the indicator.


What he DIDN'T do was fill up the roster with the Jeff Teagues, Eric Bledsoes and, I hate to say, Tim Hardaways of the world. When he couldn't get big pieces he got character guys and placeholders. They could always pull the plug when things didn't work out. Which is the other side of the coin; the draft.



From an "in the weeds" perspective Phil wasn't that great. I really think he wanted to still coach and Melo's recent assessment that when he ran triangle drills they were really good solidifies that imo. But his big picture plan was pretty solid. We need Perry to iron out the details now and fix the dumbdumb move Mills made this summer. Hopefully Tim starts playing better too.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Where's the Frank gif with the crow on his shoulder?

K DOT....ATTENTION K DOT!!!

Can you(anyone?) make this an avatar for me? I'll give mad and 1s. I gotta ask my kid If she knows how to make these things.

[3toheadmelo]

Agreed. Very unpolished. But young.

In that range, Bridges is very polished comparatively.

how dare u question my scouting

banned!!!

I don't really have a read on how he could develop from a few minutes. The type of person he is really affects the outcome. Tools are obviously there.

lol I was kidding
its very early to judge him but I think he is gonna be pretty damn good IMO. like his game a lot

[Knicks_Fan2]

The Knicks have potential to be the longest team in the NBA with a 6'6 PG and a 7'3 4/5.. Phil was awful in free agency, but he obviously had a clue in the draft building an identity.

Scary part is we almost drafted Malik Ben Gordon Monk.

Dodged a bullet even if hes solid.

[Greenie]

Offense & defense already look better than anything with Phil and we have some weak defensive players with little experience together.

I don’t agree with that. Our defense is still very poor. Very, very poor. Our offense needs help too.

This is all Heffe though.

[JBreezeNY]

Tried to contend, figured it wasn't going to work and changed direction. He stated from the start he wouldn't mortgage the future.

Do you honestly think if he didn't re-sign Melo it would have been taken kindly? Additionally, perhaps he thought he could win with Melo. He's coached a number of dominant offensive players who just needed to add the caveat of involving teammates in the offense. He's even called them out publicly when coaching them. He wasn't coaching the team, but it still worked before. I often read of people saying that a great coach needs to be able to adjust, the same can be said about players and the front office.

Regarding other moves... Afflalo was essentially on a one year deal. Not a big deal. He traded away Robin Lopez for Rose in a win now mode, which was harped on quite a bit, but Rose had 1 year left on his contract and we had our future at the Center position with KP and Hernangomez. Plus it gave us room to sign a free agent, unfortunately that turned out to be THJ. Those were not bad moves at all.

Again, only thing I can really harp on is the contract Noah received. Other than that, no move was necessarily cancerous.

No you don't get it. Your point was that he stuck to his plan. He didn't. He spent cap space to sign Rolo/Afflalo to pair with Melo and Calderon to get to the playoffs that didn't work. Then he tanked. He did it again with Noah/Lee/etc and he had to tank again.

His whole tenure was start/stop/start/stop. He didn;t do it just once. He did it in multiple years.

His plan was to try and be competitive, improvement in ball movement, and not mortgage the future. Which he tried. It just didn't work out.

According to who?

He wanted to win a championship, I don’t get this whole babying of Phil that continues to happen here.

He was the President of Basketball Operations. This isn’t some well he tried his darnest and aw shucks it just didn’t work out.

No.

In all of Phil’s years as a coach he wanted to win a title, he decides to come to New York where he acknowledged the pressure, embraced the fact that he won a title here as a player and wanted to bring that winning perspective here yet all he wanted was to be competitive, bring ball movement, not mortgage the future & that’s it?

Why are you downplaying his role here?

Why are you downplaying his actions?

HE WANTED TO WIN.

The first year here he got rid of Tyson, etc but still preached about playoffs. We ended up having 17 wins. He decided instead of just continuing to rebuild we should improve the roster which led to Rolo & Afflalo. We were stuck with players that were in their primes/out their primes, when we JUST had 17 wins & the writing on the wall is saying “You dumb shmuck just rebuild”.

So he says fu*k it I failed at contending let me try again. He goes for Rose & Noah when it’s clearly not a smart decision and then you say Noah is the only bad thing when Phil already gave you hints of his bad decision making which would only be compounded with signing Noah.

Obviously we end up having a terrible season and get a top 10 pick and this is where he decides we need to have a youth movement and Melo isn’t in the plans when he could’ve just told the man to leave instead of just giving him a 124 million contract & giving him a NTC when he asked for it.

That is incompetent at its finest.

He should’ve just COACHED instead of trying to be a coach while being in the front office. Publicly airing out players, talking about opposing players, mandating a system when you’re not coaching or doing the day to day training?

What the fu*k?

[Knicks_Fan2]

Kanter missed an open layup
Tim missed an open 3
Doug missed an open 3

Frank should of had like 8 assist.

Props to you. Saw before game you said bk cld easily miss and have a depressed score. Thought it was crazy but you were right.

[FKF]

Ding ding ding we got a winnah!

Tried to contend, figured it wasn't going to work and changed direction. He stated from the start he wouldn't mortgage the future.

Do you honestly think if he didn't re-sign Melo it would have been taken kindly? Additionally, perhaps he thought he could win with Melo. He's coached a number of dominant offensive players who just needed to add the caveat of involving teammates in the offense. He's even called them out publicly when coaching them. He wasn't coaching the team, but it still worked before. I often read of people saying that a great coach needs to be able to adjust, the same can be said about players and the front office.

Regarding other moves... Afflalo was essentially on a one year deal. Not a big deal. He traded away Robin Lopez for Rose in a win now mode, which was harped on quite a bit, but Rose had 1 year left on his contract and we had our future at the Center position with KP and Hernangomez. Plus it gave us room to sign a free agent, unfortunately that turned out to be THJ. Those were not bad moves at all.

Again, only thing I can really harp on is the contract Noah received. Other than that, no move was necessarily cancerous.

No you don't get it. Your point was that he stuck to his plan. He didn't. He spent cap space to sign Rolo/Afflalo to pair with Melo and Calderon to get to the playoffs that didn't work. Then he tanked. He did it again with Noah/Lee/etc and he had to tank again.

His whole tenure was start/stop/start/stop. He didn;t do it just once. He did it in multiple years.

What exactly is wrong with start stop start etc if at the end you’re acquiring the talent and improving the culture ?

This is Phil’s team plus Tim Hardaway we are seeing currently. Phil wanted Melo out, he’s out. Same coaches, coaching his young talent acquired in the draft. Nobody speaks of the triangle anymore but there were triangle sets last night.
Phil had flaws as an exec, which the ny media killed for, but it would have been different in another market.
Even said that, he was our first president to follow a plan which was to rebuild through the draft. Blame all his trade you want, he kept all his 1st round picks. I heard folks say it was easy, but they all traded picks before him under the pressure of the owner.

[Billy Goat]

No you don't get it. Your point was that he stuck to his plan. He didn't. He spent cap space to sign Rolo/Afflalo to pair with Melo and Calderon to get to the playoffs that didn't work. Then he tanked. He did it again with Noah/Lee/etc and he had to tank again.

His whole tenure was start/stop/start/stop. He didn;t do it just once. He did it in multiple years.

His plan was to try and be competitive, improvement in ball movement, and not mortgage the future. Which he tried. It just didn't work out.

According to who?

He wanted to win a championship, I don’t get this whole babying of Phil that continues to happen here.

He was the President of Basketball Operations. This isn’t some well he tried his darnest and aw shucks it just didn’t work out.

No.

In all of Phil’s years as a coach he wanted to win a title, he decides to come to New York where he acknowledged the pressure, embraced the fact that he won a title here as a player and wanted to bring that winning perspective here yet all he wanted was to be competitive, bring ball movement, not mortgage the future & that’s it?

Why are you downplaying his role here?

Why are you downplaying his actions?

HE WANTED TO WIN.

The first year here he got rid of Tyson, etc but still preached about playoffs. We ended up having 17 wins. He decided instead of just continuing to rebuild we should improve the roster which led to Rolo & Afflalo. We were stuck with players that were in their primes/out their primes, when we JUST had 17 wins & the writing on the wall is saying “You dumb shmuck just rebuild”.

So he says fu*k it I failed at contending let me try again. He goes for Rose & Noah when it’s clearly not a smart decision and then you say Noah is the only bad thing when Phil already gave you hints of his bad decision making which would only be compounded with signing Noah.

Obviously we end up having a terrible season and get a top 10 pick and this is where he decides we need to have a youth movement and Melo isn’t in the plans when he could’ve just told the man to leave instead of just giving him a 124 million contract & giving him a NTC when he asked for it.

That is incompetent at its finest.

He should’ve just COACHED instead of trying to be a coach while being in the front office. Publicly airing out players, talking about opposing players, mandating a system when you’re not coaching or doing the day to day training?

What the fu*k?

You end up making stupid decisions if you dont have draft picks, which wasnt Phil's fault. Resigning Melo is what got him fired.

[Greenie]

i don't think missing on one second round pick disappointing...

How about a 1st too?

Grant was his pick too.

I didn't read anything that Grant was a Gaines pick...seems like that was more of a Phil pick with more his familiarity with the grant family. I read a ton that Gaines told Phil to go with KP but I haven't found anything in terms of his connection to Grant.

Gaines also told Phil to sign Galloway as a rookie free agent.

Are you being serious with this?
Gaines was Phil’s main scout.

He’s had hits and misses just like every other scout.

[Marty McFly]

phil's tenure wasn't horrible nor was it great. he made some bad decisions and but some good ones too. either way too many people are spending way too much time arguing in favor or against what he did.

[HarthorneWingo]

This breaks my heart.



viewtopic.php?f=334&t=1628924&start=200#start_here

What's this about?

Was somebody watching the OKC game instead of the Knicks game, Fredo?