Official Frank Ntilikina Thread

[Knickgm2190]

the real question is: can you get a defender with frank's salary in free agency?

Easily and likely for less

such as who? Frank makes just 4.1 mill a year. Who do you think we can get for 4 mil that is a good wing defender and is available? Im genuinely curious.

I haven't looked at who the free agents are yet. First it depends on what position you consider Frank. It won't be difficult to replace the 78th rated point guard in defensive plus minus that averages 5.7 points a game with 33.7 percent shooting. At less than 4,855,800.

You really can't be that serious. I'm sure you could find a couple yourself.

[Knickgm2190]

Easily and likely for less

such as who? Frank makes just 4.1 mill a year. Who do you think we can get for 4 mil that is a good wing defender and is available? Im genuinely curious.

*waiting eagerly for a list of dudes with contracts from an old CBA*

So let me get this straight. You believe it would be difficult to find a player that would give you similar production as Frank for less than $4,855,800. You're joking right?

[Cookies4Life]

such as who? Frank makes just 4.1 mill a year. Who do you think we can get for 4 mil that is a good wing defender and is available? Im genuinely curious.

*waiting eagerly for a list of dudes with contracts from an old CBA*

So let me get this straight. You believe it would be difficult to find a player that would give you similar production as Frank for less than $4,855,800. You're joking right?

Well I admire your persistence that you're still speaking on this topic so let me shed some light as to why I think those that support Frank would like to see him back next year. Bare with me for a moment if you can:

I think most recognize he's only 20 years old and came into this league as a project. You do know what a project player is right? That means it usually takes a few seasons at the VERY least to start seeing dividends being paid off from their actual on court play.

People can mention whatever they want about Frank's defense but the eye test and the advanced metrics scream that he can be a very dominant player on that side of the ball. In an era of heavy pick and roll settings, he's one of the very best players to play the PnR against opposing PG's.

I don't know if you understand the value of being able to defend elite PG's, but in a guard's league with a heavy concentration of pick and roll sets being played, that's a very valuable commodity to have.

I don't think his shot is broken at all, I think the issue is he doesn't shoot enough per game on a consistent basis. How exactly can a player be efficient on that side of the ball if he shoots 3 FGA's one game followed by 6 the next and than back to 3 or 4 for the following game. If there's going to be any improvement to his offense, it'll be centered around him putting up more shots on a consistent basis. This isn't rocket science.

Nobody was giving Knox any crap hoisting up 15-20 FGA's per game and his shooting numbers are just as atrocious. He's also a piss poor defender so I fail to see what Kevin did this year that warranted him playing so many minutes.

Fizdale had a love affair with Emmanuel before the season even started so the seed was planted early on that Mudiay was going to be the defacto PG for this team. He started Frank at the SF position and than for some ill odd reason had him rack up a bunch of DNP-CD's for no apparent reason at all.

This was a throwaway year and the perfect opportunity for all our lottery picks to see a good amount of minutes. I can understand Frank's confidence issues when you have a coach that put him on such a short leash- I don't know if any other player on the roster had a shorter leash than Frank which baffles me since he's probably only 1 of a few guys on the team that actually plays the game the right way.

If he gets ample opportunity as far as consistency to his minutes than I'd fully expect him to continue developing. I'd like to see him get a bit more aggressive defensively and press guys from the moment the ball is inbounded.

I still think he has tons of potential, it's just a matter of the coaching staff putting him in the best scenarios to succeed, something they didn't do at all last year. There's no excuse for starting an expiring player in Mudiay over a guy we drafted less than 2 season ago.

[Jeff Van Gully]

such as who? Frank makes just 4.1 mill a year. Who do you think we can get for 4 mil that is a good wing defender and is available? Im genuinely curious.

*waiting eagerly for a list of dudes with contracts from an old CBA*

So let me get this straight. You believe it would be difficult to find a player that would give you similar production as Frank for less than $4,855,800. You're joking right?

still waiting for this list you say you can easily produce.

[Phish Tank]

Upcoming Free Agent PGs who made less thank Frank this season (i excluded anyone above the salary threshold because it's not practical to get them)

Jose Barea $4,000,425
Elfrid Payton $3,000,000
Raymond Felton $2,393,887
Devin Harris $2,393,887
Derrick Rose $2,393,887
Jose Calderon $2,393,887
Isaiah Thomas $2,029,463
Shelvin Mack $2,029,463
Trey Burke $1,289,588
T.J. McConnell $1,117,908
Jeremy Lin $697,358
Tim Frazier $210,692
Michael Carter-Williams

Upcoming SG Free Agents who made less thank Frank:

Justin Holiday $4,500,000
Lance Stephenson $4,449,000
Rodney Hood $3,472,887
Troy Daniels $3,333,336
Seth Curry $2,795,000
Reggie Bullock $2,500,000
Vince Carter $2,393,887
Jamal Crawford $2,393,887
Wayne Ellington $2,383,076
Quincy Pondexter $2,165,481
Corey Brewer $2,000,000
Ian Clark $1,757,429
Furkan Korkmaz $1,482,760
Austin Rivers $1,155,323
Nik Stauskas
Jodie Meeks

[Knickgm2190]

*waiting eagerly for a list of dudes with contracts from an old CBA*

So let me get this straight. You believe it would be difficult to find a player that would give you similar production as Frank for less than $4,855,800. You're joking right?

Well I admire your persistence that you're still speaking on this topic so let me shed some light as to why I think those that support Frank would like to see him back next year. Bare with me for a moment if you can:

I think most recognize he's only 20 years old and came into this league as a project. You do know what a project player is right? That means it usually takes a few seasons at the VERY least to start seeing dividends being paid off from their actual on court play.

People can mention whatever they want about Frank's defense but the eye test and the advanced metrics scream that he can be a very dominant player on that side of the ball. In an era of heavy pick and roll settings, he's one of the very best players to play the PnR against opposing PG's.

I don't know if you understand the value of being able to defend elite PG's, but in a guard's league with a heavy concentration of pick and roll sets being played, that's a very valuable commodity to have.

I don't think his shot is broken at all, I think the issue is he doesn't shoot enough per game on a consistent basis. How exactly can a player be efficient on that side of the ball if he shoots 3 FGA's one game followed by 6 the next and than back to 3 or 4 for the following game. If there's going to be any improvement to his offense, it'll be centered around him putting up more shots on a consistent basis. This isn't rocket science.

Nobody was giving Knox any crap hoisting up 15-20 FGA's per game and his shooting numbers are just as atrocious. He's also a piss poor defender so I fail to see what Kevin did this year that warranted him playing so many minutes.

Fizdale had a love affair with Emmanuel before the season even started so the seed was planted early on that Mudiay was going to be the defacto PG for this team. He started Frank at the SF position and than for some ill odd reason had him rack up a bunch of DNP-CD's for no apparent reason at all.

This was a throwaway year and the perfect opportunity for all our lottery picks to see a good amount of minutes. I can understand Frank's confidence issues when you have a coach that put him on such a short leash- I don't know if any other player on the roster had a shorter leash than Frank which baffles me since he's probably only 1 of a few guys on the team that actually plays the game the right way.

If he gets ample opportunity as far as consistency to his minutes than I'd fully expect him to continue developing. I'd like to see him get a bit more aggressive defensively and press guys from the moment the ball is inbounded.

I still think he has tons of potential, it's just a matter of the coaching staff putting him in the best scenarios to succeed, something they didn't do at all last year. There's no excuse for starting an expiring player in Mudiay over a guy we drafted less than 2 season ago.

You wrote a whole book to tell me that I'm correct. All you had to do was say you were mistaken. You are making a number of excuses for Frank. Remove your emotion for Frank and then you will be able to evaluate his performance with objectivity. The point of replacing Franks production with a cheaper player has nothing to do with any other player on the knicks. Frank has to take responsibility for his own play and do better. Its that simple.

[Knickgm2190]

Upcoming Free Agent PGs who made less thank Frank this season (i excluded anyone above the salary threshold because it's not practical to get them)

Jose Barea $4,000,425
Elfrid Payton $3,000,000
Raymond Felton $2,393,887
Devin Harris $2,393,887
Derrick Rose $2,393,887
Jose Calderon $2,393,887
Isaiah Thomas $2,029,463
Shelvin Mack $2,029,463
Trey Burke $1,289,588
T.J. McConnell $1,117,908
Jeremy Lin $697,358
Tim Frazier $210,692
Michael Carter-Williams

Upcoming SG Free Agents who made less thank Frank:
Justin Holiday $4,500,000
Lance Stephenson $4,449,000
Rodney Hood $3,472,887
Troy Daniels $3,333,336
Seth Curry $2,795,000
Reggie Bullock $2,500,000
Vince Carter $2,393,887
Jamal Crawford $2,393,887
Wayne Ellington $2,383,076
Quincy Pondexter $2,165,481
Corey Brewer $2,000,000
Ian Clark $1,757,429
Furkan Korkmaz $1,482,760
Austin Rivers $1,155,323
Nik Stauskas
Jodie Meeks

Thanks for the list. Here are a couple more Garrett Temple,luc mbah a moute, Delon Wright, Rodney Mcgruder, Tyus Jones

[Knickgm2190]

*waiting eagerly for a list of dudes with contracts from an old CBA*

So let me get this straight. You believe it would be difficult to find a player that would give you similar production as Frank for less than $4,855,800. You're joking right?

still waiting for this list you say you can easily produce.

We have produced a whole list for you. I told you its not that difficult.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Upcoming Free Agent PGs who made less thank Frank this season (i excluded anyone above the salary threshold because it's not practical to get them)

Jose Barea $4,000,425
Elfrid Payton $3,000,000
Raymond Felton $2,393,887
Devin Harris $2,393,887
Derrick Rose $2,393,887
Jose Calderon $2,393,887
Isaiah Thomas $2,029,463
Shelvin Mack $2,029,463
Trey Burke $1,289,588
T.J. McConnell $1,117,908
Jeremy Lin $697,358
Tim Frazier $210,692
Michael Carter-Williams

Upcoming SG Free Agents who made less thank Frank:
Justin Holiday $4,500,000
Lance Stephenson $4,449,000
Rodney Hood $3,472,887
Troy Daniels $3,333,336
Seth Curry $2,795,000
Reggie Bullock $2,500,000
Vince Carter $2,393,887
Jamal Crawford $2,393,887
Wayne Ellington $2,383,076
Quincy Pondexter $2,165,481
Corey Brewer $2,000,000
Ian Clark $1,757,429
Furkan Korkmaz $1,482,760
Austin Rivers $1,155,323
Nik Stauskas
Jodie Meeks

now when we find a better defender than frank from that list, or any other scrap heap, we must remember that frank's salary will be a different percentage of the upcoming cap than this one.

still waiting for a list.

[Jeff Van Gully]

So let me get this straight. You believe it would be difficult to find a player that would give you similar production as Frank for less than $4,855,800. You're joking right?

still waiting for this list you say you can easily produce.

We have produced a whole list for you. I told you its not that difficult.

we? lol.

that is a list of players who made less than frank this year and will be free agents in the current CBA.

YOUR homework was to find a list of players who defend better than or as well as frank who will cost less in 2019.

[Phish Tank]

Thanks for the list. Here are a couple more Garrett Temple,luc mbah a moute, Delon Wright, Rodney Mcgruder, Tyus Jones

Temple was making $8M this season. That's why he's not on the list. Mbah a Moute just got cut because of his injuries. I excluded Wright & Jones because they're RFAs. McGruder's a fringe player

[Cookies4Life]

So let me get this straight. You believe it would be difficult to find a player that would give you similar production as Frank for less than $4,855,800. You're joking right?

still waiting for this list you say you can easily produce.

We have produced a whole list for you. I told you its not that difficult.

You do know the ages of those players on that list right? You don know that Frank is 20 years old still- actually younger than Mitchell Robinson.

You're doubling down on the notion that there's no way Frank improves at 20 years old going into his 3rd year in the league. I'd wager he continues to develop compared to those other guys mentioned on that list who are essentially finished products.

[Knickgm2190]

Upcoming Free Agent PGs who made less thank Frank this season (i excluded anyone above the salary threshold because it's not practical to get them)

Jose Barea $4,000,425
Elfrid Payton $3,000,000
Raymond Felton $2,393,887
Devin Harris $2,393,887
Derrick Rose $2,393,887
Jose Calderon $2,393,887
Isaiah Thomas $2,029,463
Shelvin Mack $2,029,463
Trey Burke $1,289,588
T.J. McConnell $1,117,908
Jeremy Lin $697,358
Tim Frazier $210,692
Michael Carter-Williams

Upcoming SG Free Agents who made less thank Frank:
Justin Holiday $4,500,000
Lance Stephenson $4,449,000
Rodney Hood $3,472,887
Troy Daniels $3,333,336
Seth Curry $2,795,000
Reggie Bullock $2,500,000
Vince Carter $2,393,887
Jamal Crawford $2,393,887
Wayne Ellington $2,383,076
Quincy Pondexter $2,165,481
Corey Brewer $2,000,000
Ian Clark $1,757,429
Furkan Korkmaz $1,482,760
Austin Rivers $1,155,323
Nik Stauskas
Jodie Meeks

now when we find a better defender than frank from that list, or any other scrap heap, we must remember that frank's salary will be a different percentage of the upcoming cap than this one.

still waiting for a list.

Listen Frank is the 78th rated point guard in defensive real plus minus. Don't ask me for more defensive stats because those aren't going to be much better. There are people on the list that are currently Franks equivalent or better defensively. If you don't like them then that is on you. At that point I would then say you must be overrating the production Frank currently gives this knick team. No offense but please open your eyes. You are not seeing clearly.

[Knickgm2190]

Thanks for the list. Here are a couple more Garrett Temple,luc mbah a moute, Delon Wright, Rodney Mcgruder, Tyus Jones

Temple was making $8M this season. That's why he's not on the list. Mbah a Moute just got cut because of his injuries. I excluded Wright & Jones because they're RFAs. McGruder's a fringe player

Players salaries don't always go up. Based on Temples production his salary will fall likely to the Frank range. Same with Michael kidd gilchrist. Some players will go up while others will come down. There is no guarantee that they will fall to Franks depths, so we can exclude them

[Knickgm2190]

still waiting for this list you say you can easily produce.

We have produced a whole list for you. I told you its not that difficult.

You do know the ages of those players on that list right? You don know that Frank is 20 years old still- actually younger than Mitchell Robinson.

You're doubling down on the notion that there's no way Frank improves at 20 years old going into his 3rd year in the league. I'd wager he continues to develop compared to those other guys mentioned on that list who are essentially finished products.

Lets keep it straight. Age was not in the question. It was who can provide the same or greater production than Frank next season. We provided a list of guys. I know how old Frank is and again has nothing to do with the information you asked me to provide.

[Jeff Van Gully]

We have produced a whole list for you. I told you its not that difficult.

You do know the ages of those players on that list right? You don know that Frank is 20 years old still- actually younger than Mitchell Robinson.

You're doubling down on the notion that there's no way Frank improves at 20 years old going into his 3rd year in the league. I'd wager he continues to develop compared to those other guys mentioned on that list who are essentially finished products.

Lets keep it straight. Age was not in the question. It was who can provide the same or greater production than Frank next season. We provided a list of guys. I know how old Frank is and again has nothing to do with the information you asked me to provide.

no. you are all over the place. i have kept this very simple for you.

you said you could easily point out players who could defend at frank's level or better for less money. then you keep referring to a list of all expected FAs without citing who you're talking about. telling me and others to just pick.

it's your statement. you answer the question with some specifics. i will repeat the question:

which players can be had next year for less money than frank ntilikina who defend at or above his level?

[Cookies4Life]

We have produced a whole list for you. I told you its not that difficult.

You do know the ages of those players on that list right? You don know that Frank is 20 years old still- actually younger than Mitchell Robinson.

You're doubling down on the notion that there's no way Frank improves at 20 years old going into his 3rd year in the league. I'd wager he continues to develop compared to those other guys mentioned on that list who are essentially finished products.

Lets keep it straight. Age was not in the question. It was who can provide the same or greater production than Frank next season. We provided a list of guys. I know how old Frank is and again has nothing to do with the information you asked me to provide.

Age and potential actually does factor in when it comes to contracts. I get on court play production is the priority but when you're paying very young guys, potential is a bigger chunk of what you're paying for in most instances.

JVG and Phish Tank were very succinct in their posts, why don't you answer based off the list provided who in fact would provide better production defensively than Frank at similar pay?

[Knickgm2190]

You do know the ages of those players on that list right? You don know that Frank is 20 years old still- actually younger than Mitchell Robinson.

You're doubling down on the notion that there's no way Frank improves at 20 years old going into his 3rd year in the league. I'd wager he continues to develop compared to those other guys mentioned on that list who are essentially finished products.

Lets keep it straight. Age was not in the question. It was who can provide the same or greater production than Frank next season. We provided a list of guys. I know how old Frank is and again has nothing to do with the information you asked me to provide.

no. you are all over the place. i have kept this very simple for you.

you said you could easily point out players who could defend at frank's level or better for less money. then you keep referring to a list of all expected FAs without citing who you're talking about. telling me and others to just pick.

it's your statement. you answer the question with some specifics. i will repeat the question:

which players can be had next year for less money than frank ntilikina who defend at or above his level?

I can't help those that see Frank as some sort of Messiah. You are part of his fan club. No matter what facts I provide you will find fault. You're hypnotized. I can't help anyone if they fail to see the truth for themselves.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Lets keep it straight. Age was not in the question. It was who can provide the same or greater production than Frank next season. We provided a list of guys. I know how old Frank is and again has nothing to do with the information you asked me to provide.

no. you are all over the place. i have kept this very simple for you.

you said you could easily point out players who could defend at frank's level or better for less money. then you keep referring to a list of all expected FAs without citing who you're talking about. telling me and others to just pick.

it's your statement. you answer the question with some specifics. i will repeat the question:

which players can be had next year for less money than frank ntilikina who defend at or above his level?

I can't help those that see Frank as some sort of Messiah. You are part of his fan club. No matter what facts I provide you will find fault. You're hypnotized. I can't help anyone if they fail to see the truth for themselves.

okay. so you're not going to answer the question. that's fine. i didn't think you would, to be honest.

i didn't come here to defend frank. at no point do i say anything to defend him. you, on the other hand, are speaking against him. i just asked you a question based off of something you said you could do easily. your words. but that's cool. we're done here.

[Phish Tank]

i'm still waiting for that player, or players, that could replace Frank's production at a lower cost based on my list below.

And no, I don't want to hear about DRPM anymore