[Camelo Thread Part 12] - Melo's list grows? pg. 50

[Leeroy Jenkins]

interesting thought, but we're not in a non-competitive place where we can part off important pieces to our playoff run. remember if we finish worse than houston we swap picks. so its not a bad idea in theory, though in practice we'd basically be saying " yeah eff this season just like the last three..yay for cap room!" im speaking for turiaf and chandler btw

If we are trying to win a championship in the era of super teams. We need to leave our options open. If we want to add Melo via free agency, we have no choice but to trade AR, Chandler/Gallo, and Turiaf. We just can't do it any other way. If we don't trade any of these guys before the deadline- we put ourselves in a position to get less value if we trade them at seasons end. Now of course, this is assuming we don't get Melo before the deadline for a reasonable amount. If we can't get Melo pre- deadline, we have to trade those guys and not worry about making the play-offs for the betterment of the future. Again, think of- "becoming a true contender for a championship".

so you'd throw this year away for two first round picks and a shot at signing melo in the offseason?

I think if we were to do that we would need confirmation from Anthony himself saying he's definitely signing with us

[Pharmcat]

interesting thought, but we're not in a non-competitive place where we can part off important pieces to our playoff run. remember if we finish worse than houston we swap picks. so its not a bad idea in theory, though in practice we'd basically be saying " yeah eff this season just like the last three..yay for cap room!" im speaking for turiaf and chandler btw

If we are trying to win a championship in the era of super teams. We need to leave our options open. If we want to add Melo via free agency, we have no choice but to trade AR, Chandler/Gallo, and Turiaf. We just can't do it any other way. If we don't trade any of these guys before the deadline- we put ourselves in a position to get less value if we trade them at seasons end. Now of course, this is assuming we don't get Melo before the deadline for a reasonable amount. If we can't get Melo pre- deadline, we have to trade those guys and not worry about making the play-offs for the betterment of the future. Again, think of- "becoming a true contender for a championship".

so you'd throw this year away for two first round picks and a shot at signing melo in the offseason?

we're not winning anything this year anyways

[Context]

so you'd throw this year away for two first round picks and a shot at signing melo in the offseason?

Maybe not 2 first rounders but whatever the best value at the deadline would be for the players that need to be traded is. I don't know what that would be but if it's Curry, Azub(3million in savings and expiring), Turiaf, Chandler, and AR. I would have to believe that that group of talent and assets are worth more than two 1st's...

So yes, if Denver holds onto Melo, I would move the above group for the best value on the market.

[Context]

I think if we were to do that we would need confirmation from Anthony himself saying he's definitely signing with us

Agreed. And I believe you can get it; of course not publicly. Just keep in mind that Curry, Azub, Mason, and Shawne are assets that once the deadline passes you have no control over. Therefore, as far as that group is concerned regardless of what Melo does, you need to get the most value for them before the deadline.

[gindi3290]

A week or so ago most people here wouldn't move Felton for Nash, now we would include him for Billups?

Very spot on man, these guards are old nash billups keep felton in your backpocket because hes really been that good for us this year why are all you guys hating on him.

He has a bright future we better keep fields offer wilson chandler and toney douglas get a 1st round pick from minnesota for anthony randolph or just off denver randolph whatever they prefer if not will wait to sign him next year.

Its clear melo will only sign an extension with us anyway and no other nba team will budge to trade for him if they know they have no chance at signing him, to have him as a rental and break up there team would be foolish.

WOOOHOOOO GO KNICKSSS!!

[knicks9784]

I think if we were to do that we would need confirmation from Anthony himself saying he's definitely signing with us

Agreed. And I believe you can get it; of course not publicly. Just keep in mind that Curry, Azub, Mason, and Shawne are assets that once the deadline passes you have no control over. Therefore, as far as that group is concerned regardless of what Melo does, you need to get the most value for them before the deadline.

with curry and buke, you're not getting picks for them. you'd have to take back a contract as their value is saving money in the future. so if ur waiting for melo you cant do anything with curry and buke since you need to let them expire for cap room. regardless i think it sends a bad message to the fans that you'd send away 2 starters (semi-starters in turiaf and chandler) in the middle of a playoff run when we havent made the playoffs since 03 or so. my thing is the draft picks you would get arent going to be the difference in a championship or not. we can make the playoffs and get melo in the summer too, its not one of the other. i just dont see why we should sacrifice a playoff run for a couple of picks.

[Pharmcat]

I think if we were to do that we would need confirmation from Anthony himself saying he's definitely signing with us

Agreed. And I believe you can get it; of course not publicly. Just keep in mind that Curry, Azub, Mason, and Shawne are assets that once the deadline passes you have no control over. Therefore, as far as that group is concerned regardless of what Melo does, you need to get the most value for them before the deadline.

with curry and buke, you're not getting picks for them. you'd have to take back a contract as their value is saving money in the future. so if ur waiting for melo you cant do anything with curry and buke since you need to let them expire for cap room. regardless i think it sends a bad message to the fans that you'd send away 2 starters (semi-starters in turiaf and chandler) in the middle of a playoff run when we havent made the playoffs since 03 or so. my thing is the draft picks you would get arent going to be the difference in a championship or not. we can make the playoffs and get melo in the summer too, its not one of the other. i just dont see why we should sacrifice a playoff run for a couple of picks.

didnt the bulls trade salmons last year? sure that hurt them for that year, but it was the right move for long term given the FA implications

if we dont make moves, chandler is gone for nothing in the summer, and turiaf has to be traded at a premium time....i'll take the pick/young player now to position this team better for the summer

[knicks9784]

Agreed. And I believe you can get it; of course not publicly. Just keep in mind that Curry, Azub, Mason, and Shawne are assets that once the deadline passes you have no control over. Therefore, as far as that group is concerned regardless of what Melo does, you need to get the most value for them before the deadline.

with curry and buke, you're not getting picks for them. you'd have to take back a contract as their value is saving money in the future. so if ur waiting for melo you cant do anything with curry and buke since you need to let them expire for cap room. regardless i think it sends a bad message to the fans that you'd send away 2 starters (semi-starters in turiaf and chandler) in the middle of a playoff run when we havent made the playoffs since 03 or so. my thing is the draft picks you would get arent going to be the difference in a championship or not. we can make the playoffs and get melo in the summer too, its not one of the other. i just dont see why we should sacrifice a playoff run for a couple of picks.

didnt the bulls trade salmons last year? sure that hurt them for that year, but it was the right move for long term given the FA implications

if we dont make moves, chandler is gone for nothing in the summer, and turiaf has to be traded at a premium time....i'll take the pick/young player now to position this team better for the summer

the pick doesnt put us in better position this summer, the pick helps us in the future and hurts are season this year. we can let wilson walk or get a trade exception before signing melo. id rather do that and stay competitive this year. we're not in the same position as last year where cap room is essential and we NEED to move players. moving them now doesnt create more cap room, it hurts us this year and gives us draft picks. id rather let him walk than give up on the playoffs this year.

[towelie]

It sounds like if we try to sign Melo in the summer, we have to renounce/lose Chandler, Turiaf and Randolph.

What got me thinking...

Can we trade (is there a market for?) these guys for FUTURE draft picks? like 2012 draft picks? this way we retain the value of these guys in the form of future draft picks, but we also prevent taking on salary back for them (in other words, it wont affect THIS years salary cap)

If so, try offereing Randolph to Indiana for their 2012 (not this years 2011) draft pick.
Trade Turiaf for a 1st rounder form a vet team like orlando looking for a useful bigman of the bench
Trade Chandler to a team looking for a perimeter scorer who would give up some other pick.

interesting thought, but we're not in a non-competitive place where we can part off important pieces to our playoff run. remember if we finish worse than houston we swap picks. so its not a bad idea in theory, though in practice we'd basically be saying " yeah eff this season just like the last three..yay for cap room!" im speaking for turiaf and chandler btw

if we trade AR/Turiaf for przy/tpe/pick, we dont really lose anything as przy is a big body who can play 20 mins a nite and AR doesnt even play
you can follow that up with curry + small token (rautin, 2nd rd) for dally to add more size for this year

chandler for beaubois...yea there is a drop in production, but if beaubois can play some minutes and lighten felton load, then thats a trade off

come on, i think this team can wait 1/2 yr for melo

That's definitely a deal I'd do at the deadline if Denver is still unwilling to send us Melo. Send Turiaf/AR to a team like Orlando or Portland or any contender who would likely be interested in big men depth, and that'll clear more than enough room to sign Melo (still have to renounce or S&T Chandler though). If anything, we should have these deals lined up and scare Denver into trading.

Also, getting rid of Turiaf/AR for 2011 cap space + renouncing a few other players like Walker, Rautins, and our 2011 pick may even give us enough room to sign Melo AND resign Chandler. Or be close enough to convince Melo to take a slight paycut like LBJ and co. did to retain Chandler.

[Pharmcat]

with curry and buke, you're not getting picks for them. you'd have to take back a contract as their value is saving money in the future. so if ur waiting for melo you cant do anything with curry and buke since you need to let them expire for cap room. regardless i think it sends a bad message to the fans that you'd send away 2 starters (semi-starters in turiaf and chandler) in the middle of a playoff run when we havent made the playoffs since 03 or so. my thing is the draft picks you would get arent going to be the difference in a championship or not. we can make the playoffs and get melo in the summer too, its not one of the other. i just dont see why we should sacrifice a playoff run for a couple of picks.

didnt the bulls trade salmons last year? sure that hurt them for that year, but it was the right move for long term given the FA implications

if we dont make moves, chandler is gone for nothing in the summer, and turiaf has to be traded at a premium time....i'll take the pick/young player now to position this team better for the summer

the pick doesnt put us in better position this summer, the pick helps us in the future and hurts are season this year. we can let wilson walk or get a trade exception before signing melo. id rather do that and stay competitive this year. we're not in the same position as last year where cap room is essential and we NEED to move players. moving them now doesnt create more cap room, it hurts us this year and gives us draft picks. id rather let him walk than give up on the playoffs this year.

if you get a trade exception, you'll have to renounce it anyways to have the cap space to sign melo, no?
how doesnt moving players create more cap room? move turiaf and you save 4.5 mill of the cap next season
we arent winning anything this year
players NEED to be moved (either traded or renounced) to have max cap space in summer

[kosmovitelli]

Is this THE Larry Brown? If so...hey Larry...Wojina is looking for a butt buddy.

It's a post from Larry Brown Sports.

Larry Brown Bio

I founded larrybrownsports.com back in January of 2007 as a place to share my thoughts, viewpoints, and opinions on sports. I began working on the site as a side venture while I was working at FOX Sports Radio Network in Los Angeles. Presently, I proudly work for Sporting News Radio serving as both a show host and update anchor. You can listen to my shows online at Sporting News Radio, on Sirius radio on channel 127, or on your local affiliate. Before coming to Sporting News, I worked at Fox Sports Radio for just over five years, doing everything from anchoring updates, to producing shows, and editing sound.

[knicks9784]

didnt the bulls trade salmons last year? sure that hurt them for that year, but it was the right move for long term given the FA implications

if we dont make moves, chandler is gone for nothing in the summer, and turiaf has to be traded at a premium time....i'll take the pick/young player now to position this team better for the summer

the pick doesnt put us in better position this summer, the pick helps us in the future and hurts are season this year. we can let wilson walk or get a trade exception before signing melo. id rather do that and stay competitive this year. we're not in the same position as last year where cap room is essential and we NEED to move players. moving them now doesnt create more cap room, it hurts us this year and gives us draft picks. id rather let him walk than give up on the playoffs this year.

if you get a trade exception, you'll have to renounce it anyways to have the cap space to sign melo, no?
how doesnt moving players create more cap room? move turiaf and you save 4.5 mill of the cap next season
we arent winning anything this year
players NEED to be moved (either traded or renounced) to have max cap space in summer

you might be right about trade exception. i forgot turiaf has extra years, i can see moving turiaf and AR, but not chandler. i was speaking more about chandler, he's too important to the team and playoffs to give him away for a pick and keeping him doesnt hurt the cap. id rather let him walk.

[Context]

with curry and buke, you're not getting picks for them. you'd have to take back a contract as their value is saving money in the future. so if ur waiting for melo you cant do anything with curry and buke since you need to let them expire for cap room. regardless i think it sends a bad message to the fans that you'd send away 2 starters (semi-starters in turiaf and chandler) in the middle of a playoff run when we havent made the playoffs since 03 or so. my thing is the draft picks you would get arent going to be the difference in a championship or not. we can make the playoffs and get melo in the summer too, its not one of the other. i just dont see why we should sacrifice a playoff run for a couple of picks.

I can't speak for "Knick fan nation" but I can speak for myself. I want to win it all. I could care less about making the play-offs. Therefore, when I consider any moves that I would want this team to make I have to keep the future in mind. I would rather trade for Melo but only if it costs us Chandler and AR at the max. No Gallo, Fields, Mozz, STAT, and Felton. If I have to add one of Gallo, Fields or Mozz then I tell Denver good luck. This is also based on my belief that it's Knicks only for Melo. You may be saying to yourself "Mozz" are you serious?! Yes I am because 7 footers with his talent(basing it off of scouting and the fact that he needs time to adjust to the NBA game) that are tough- are rare. If we are going to win a "championship" we are going to need size. Especially with Amare always taking a pounding. I personally believe that our big three would be STAT, MELO, and GALLO.

As far as Curry and Azub, teams can use those assets in a multi-team deal and we could net a trade exception of maybe a 2nd round pick/etc. I just wouldn't let those assets waste if Denver holds onto Melo for the remainder of the season. All I'm saying is you get what you can for those guys if we can't use them for ourselves.

[Pharmcat]

you might be right about trade exception. i forgot turiaf has extra years, i can see moving turiaf and AR, but not chandler. i was speaking more about chandler, he's too important to the team and playoffs to give him away for a pick and keeping him doesnt hurt the cap. id rather let him walk.

if one would rather keep chandler for a short PO run and lose him for nothing instead of unloading him for a player on a cheap rookie deal (beabois), that is a extremely short sighted move

chandler has a 6 mill QO, he aint staying around, might as well trade him to garner a asset for the future

[Context]

you might be right about trade exception. i forgot turiaf has extra years, i can see moving turiaf and AR, but not chandler. i was speaking more about chandler, he's too important to the team and playoffs to give him away for a pick and keeping him doesnt hurt the cap. id rather let him walk.

Should I call you 9784 or K9784 ?

My reason for wanting to trade Chandler now (lets not forget this is based on an assumption that DONNIE is certain that Melo wants to be here ONLY) is you are going to get more value now. If you wait till the off-season every team will know that you have to get rid of Chandler and you won't get much. Unless Melo doesn't sign with us in the off season. Then it's a different story...

[Context]

you might be right about trade exception. i forgot turiaf has extra years, i can see moving turiaf and AR, but not chandler. i was speaking more about chandler, he's too important to the team and playoffs to give him away for a pick and keeping him doesnt hurt the cap. id rather let him walk.

if one would rather keep chandler for a short PO run and lose him for nothing instead of unloading him for a player on a cheap rookie deal (beabois), that is a extremely short sighted move

chandler has a 6 mill QO, he aint staying around, might as well trade him to garner a asset for the future

Lets not forget that Chandler- if traded, will be a restricted free agent. Any team that he is traded to can match any other teams offer. We can get nice Future 1st rounder for Wilson Pharm.

[knicks9784]

you might be right about trade exception. i forgot turiaf has extra years, i can see moving turiaf and AR, but not chandler. i was speaking more about chandler, he's too important to the team and playoffs to give him away for a pick and keeping him doesnt hurt the cap. id rather let him walk.

Should I call you 9784 or K9784 ?

My reason for wanting to trade Chandler now (lets not forget this is based on an assumption that DONNIE is certain that Melo wants to be here ONLY) is you are going to get more value now. If you wait till the off-season every team will know that you have to get rid of Chandler and you won't get much. Unless Melo doesn't sign with us in the off season. Then it's a different story...

lol doesnt matter.

well seems like this has run its course, we differ on what to do with chandler. thats a debate that wont end for some time probably.

[moocow007]

Is this THE Larry Brown? If so...hey Larry...Wojina is looking for a butt buddy.

It's a post from Larry Brown Sports.

Larry Brown Bio

I founded larrybrownsports.com back in January of 2007 as a place to share my thoughts, viewpoints, and opinions on sports. I began working on the site as a side venture while I was working at FOX Sports Radio Network in Los Angeles. Presently, I proudly work for Sporting News Radio serving as both a show host and update anchor. You can listen to my shows online at Sporting News Radio, on Sirius radio on channel 127, or on your local affiliate. Before coming to Sporting News, I worked at Fox Sports Radio for just over five years, doing everything from anchoring updates, to producing shows, and editing sound.

Oh thank goodness.

[Pharmcat]

you might be right about trade exception. i forgot turiaf has extra years, i can see moving turiaf and AR, but not chandler. i was speaking more about chandler, he's too important to the team and playoffs to give him away for a pick and keeping him doesnt hurt the cap. id rather let him walk.

if one would rather keep chandler for a short PO run and lose him for nothing instead of unloading him for a player on a cheap rookie deal (beabois), that is a extremely short sighted move

chandler has a 6 mill QO, he aint staying around, might as well trade him to garner a asset for the future

Lets not forget that Chandler- if traded, will be a restricted free agent. Any team that he is traded to can match any other teams offer. We can get nice Future 1st rounder for Wilson Pharm.

yea i agree....but POs team will by vying for him, they have late picks...so is a young player worth more or less than late pick? that is the ? to deal with

regardless, i dont care what he gets dealt for, chandler has to go due to his FA status

[Context]

yea i agree....but POs team will by vying for him, they have late picks...so is a young player worth more or less than late pick? that is the ? to deal with

regardless, i dont care what he gets dealt for, chandler has to go due to his FA status

We're on the same page here.

I wish we could keep Chandler and sign Melo but we can't. We can't even trade Chandler to fill a need because if we acquire that need we won't have the room to sign Melo. It is what it is... That's why a future 1st is the best option. Once we acquire/sign Melo and fill our team out. From that point, as a franchise- our draft selections of the future will be very important and depending on what the new CBA agreement looks like -may be one of the only ways to improve.