PG Thread: FRANK GANG GANG UNITE - 'Remi Bomb: Pg 13

[god shammgod]

the knicks sucked his whole tenure and almost all of the players he signed or traded for sucked...but because they sucked so bad that they were able to get two top 10 picks, and he didn't screw those picks up, somehow now you want to try to paint his tenure as a positive......as if....that's all i'm saying.....as if

[JBreezeNY]

His plan was to try and be competitive, improvement in ball movement, and not mortgage the future. Which he tried. It just didn't work out.

According to who?

He wanted to win a championship, I don’t get this whole babying of Phil that continues to happen here.

He was the President of Basketball Operations. This isn’t some well he tried his darnest and aw shucks it just didn’t work out.

No.

In all of Phil’s years as a coach he wanted to win a title, he decides to come to New York where he acknowledged the pressure, embraced the fact that he won a title here as a player and wanted to bring that winning perspective here yet all he wanted was to be competitive, bring ball movement, not mortgage the future & that’s it?

Why are you downplaying his role here?

Why are you downplaying his actions?

HE WANTED TO WIN.

The first year here he got rid of Tyson, etc but still preached about playoffs. We ended up having 17 wins. He decided instead of just continuing to rebuild we should improve the roster which led to Rolo & Afflalo. We were stuck with players that were in their primes/out their primes, when we JUST had 17 wins & the writing on the wall is saying “You dumb shmuck just rebuild”.

So he says fu*k it I failed at contending let me try again. He goes for Rose & Noah when it’s clearly not a smart decision and then you say Noah is the only bad thing when Phil already gave you hints of his bad decision making which would only be compounded with signing Noah.

Obviously we end up having a terrible season and get a top 10 pick and this is where he decides we need to have a youth movement and Melo isn’t in the plans when he could’ve just told the man to leave instead of just giving him a 124 million contract & giving him a NTC when he asked for it.

That is incompetent at its finest.

He should’ve just COACHED instead of trying to be a coach while being in the front office. Publicly airing out players, talking about opposing players, mandating a system when you’re not coaching or doing the day to day training?

What the fu*k?

You end up making stupid decisions if you dont have draft picks, which wasnt Phil's fault. Resigning Melo is what got him fired.

Honestly if he would’ve came in, said I want to rebuild, this is going to be a youth movement I would be ecstatic

Get Porz/Towns (Speaking of that we more than likely would’ve gotten Towns if Melo wasn’t here...goddamnit Phil) let Melo walk/trade Melo, continue rebuilding, stock up youth, make smart trades that brings in picks without sabotaging the future ala the Celtics and we would’ve been on this path earlier.

[god shammgod]

by the way, when i said before yesterday's game that you couldn't call frank a failure after 5 minutes, you also can't declare him a perennial all-star after the next 20.

[PeoplesChamp]

Watching KP and Frank play last night, thinking about all the bust and alpha comments.....



I can't believe Towns has been shat on so badly this season for his defense. Like people are actually saying it's so bad he's a negative on the floor, and for all the **** we give KP for not wanting to play center, Towns is so bad he actually can't. Didn't see that coming.

Watching KP makes me very happy.

Towns will be great but KP will go down as the best player from that draft.

[shtolky]

by the way, when i said before yesterday's game that you couldn't call frank a failure after 5 minutes, you also can't declare him a perennial all-star after the next 20.

This is absolutely true, but one thing of note is that many posters didn't think he was capable of playing like he did last night at any point this season or maybe ever, and this was basically his first real game action. All of the "he's not a PG" and "he didn't play much in Europe so he will look lost" narratives were eliminated last night. But yes, one game, but a good sign nonetheless.

[Greenie]

His plan was to try and be competitive, improvement in ball movement, and not mortgage the future. Which he tried. It just didn't work out.

According to who?

He wanted to win a championship, I don’t get this whole babying of Phil that continues to happen here.

He was the President of Basketball Operations. This isn’t some well he tried his darnest and aw shucks it just didn’t work out.

No.

In all of Phil’s years as a coach he wanted to win a title, he decides to come to New York where he acknowledged the pressure, embraced the fact that he won a title here as a player and wanted to bring that winning perspective here yet all he wanted was to be competitive, bring ball movement, not mortgage the future & that’s it?

Why are you downplaying his role here?

Why are you downplaying his actions?

HE WANTED TO WIN.

The first year here he got rid of Tyson, etc but still preached about playoffs. We ended up having 17 wins. He decided instead of just continuing to rebuild we should improve the roster which led to Rolo & Afflalo. We were stuck with players that were in their primes/out their primes, when we JUST had 17 wins & the writing on the wall is saying “You dumb shmuck just rebuild”.

So he says fu*k it I failed at contending let me try again. He goes for Rose & Noah when it’s clearly not a smart decision and then you say Noah is the only bad thing when Phil already gave you hints of his bad decision making which would only be compounded with signing Noah.

Obviously we end up having a terrible season and get a top 10 pick and this is where he decides we need to have a youth movement and Melo isn’t in the plans when he could’ve just told the man to leave instead of just giving him a 124 million contract & giving him a NTC when he asked for it.

That is incompetent at its finest.

He should’ve just COACHED instead of trying to be a coach while being in the front office. Publicly airing out players, talking about opposing players, mandating a system when you’re not coaching or doing the day to day training?

What the fu*k?

You end up making stupid decisions if you dont have draft picks, which wasnt Phil's fault. Resigning Melo is what got him fired.

No.

Phil playing the middle, wondering why that **** didn’t work and throwing players under the bus for it while shoving the triangle down everyone’s throats got Phil fired.

[IllmaticHandler]

How about a 1st too?

Grant was his pick too.

I didn't read anything that Grant was a Gaines pick...seems like that was more of a Phil pick with more his familiarity with the grant family. I read a ton that Gaines told Phil to go with KP but I haven't found anything in terms of his connection to Grant.

Gaines also told Phil to sign Galloway as a rookie free agent.

Are you being serious with this?
Gaines was Phil’s main scout.

He’s had hits and misses just like every other scout.

A scout dont mean you make the Pick. Grant is an NBA player regardless to whom or what. There is no record of Gaines pushing Grant at all. Yet we can find all the other players that Gaines was associated with and did extensive scouting on. Grant could have been on a big board given to Phil. If Grant was picked in the second round nobody would be saying anything. Also grant was NOT drafted by the Knicks. So how much scouting did Gaines really do or have influence on phil with. That might have been an executive decision made by Phil on his own. You are arguing something you have no proof on.

[HarthorneWingo]

the knicks sucked his whole tenure and almost all of the players he signed or traded for sucked...but because they sucked so bad that they were able to get two top 10 picks, and he didn't screw those picks up, somehow now you want to try to paint his tenure as a positive......as if....that's all i'm saying.....as if

And Willy. You forgot him. You also left out KOQ and Courtney Lee who were solid picks.

Phil made some pressured moves to try and get jackass Melo some veteran help. Noah and Rose didn't work out.

Phil was about to turn the page and start the full rebuild when he got canned. Do you think he would've spent $71M on Timmy?

[god shammgod]

by the way, when i said before yesterday's game that you couldn't call frank a failure after 5 minutes, you also can't declare him a perennial all-star after the next 20.

This is absolutely true, but one thing of note is that many posters didn't think he was capable of playing like he did last night at any point this season or maybe ever, and this was basically his first real game action. All of the "he's not a PG" and "he didn't play much in Europe so he will look lost" narratives were eliminated last night. But yes, one game, but a good sign nonetheless.

it is. but he'll have his moments where he'll look pretty bad again. it's inevitable for a young player. it's too early to serve crow either way.

[Greenie]

According to who?

He wanted to win a championship, I don’t get this whole babying of Phil that continues to happen here.

He was the President of Basketball Operations. This isn’t some well he tried his darnest and aw shucks it just didn’t work out.

No.

In all of Phil’s years as a coach he wanted to win a title, he decides to come to New York where he acknowledged the pressure, embraced the fact that he won a title here as a player and wanted to bring that winning perspective here yet all he wanted was to be competitive, bring ball movement, not mortgage the future & that’s it?

Why are you downplaying his role here?

Why are you downplaying his actions?

HE WANTED TO WIN.

The first year here he got rid of Tyson, etc but still preached about playoffs. We ended up having 17 wins. He decided instead of just continuing to rebuild we should improve the roster which led to Rolo & Afflalo. We were stuck with players that were in their primes/out their primes, when we JUST had 17 wins & the writing on the wall is saying “You dumb shmuck just rebuild”.

So he says fu*k it I failed at contending let me try again. He goes for Rose & Noah when it’s clearly not a smart decision and then you say Noah is the only bad thing when Phil already gave you hints of his bad decision making which would only be compounded with signing Noah.

Obviously we end up having a terrible season and get a top 10 pick and this is where he decides we need to have a youth movement and Melo isn’t in the plans when he could’ve just told the man to leave instead of just giving him a 124 million contract & giving him a NTC when he asked for it.

That is incompetent at its finest.

He should’ve just COACHED instead of trying to be a coach while being in the front office. Publicly airing out players, talking about opposing players, mandating a system when you’re not coaching or doing the day to day training?

What the fu*k?

You end up making stupid decisions if you dont have draft picks, which wasnt Phil's fault. Resigning Melo is what got him fired.

Honestly if he would’ve came in, said I want to rebuild, this is going to be a youth movement I would be ecstatic

Get Porz/Towns (Speaking of that we more than likely would’ve gotten Towns if Melo wasn’t here...goddamnit Phil) let Melo walk/trade Melo, continue rebuilding, stock up youth, make smart trades that brings in picks without sabotaging the future ala the Celtics and we would’ve been on this path earlier.

This

[KnickFan33]

No you don't get it. Your point was that he stuck to his plan. He didn't. He spent cap space to sign Rolo/Afflalo to pair with Melo and Calderon to get to the playoffs that didn't work. Then he tanked. He did it again with Noah/Lee/etc and he had to tank again.

His whole tenure was start/stop/start/stop. He didn;t do it just once. He did it in multiple years.

His plan was to try and be competitive, improvement in ball movement, and not mortgage the future. Which he tried. It just didn't work out.

According to who?

He wanted to win a championship, I don’t get this whole babying of Phil that continues to happen here.

He was the President of Basketball Operations. This isn’t some well he tried his darnest and aw shucks it just didn’t work out.

No.

In all of Phil’s years as a coach he wanted to win a title, he decides to come to New York where he acknowledged the pressure, embraced the fact that he won a title here as a player and wanted to bring that winning perspective here yet all he wanted was to be competitive, bring ball movement, not mortgage the future & that’s it?

Why are you downplaying his role here?

Why are you downplaying his actions?

HE WANTED TO WIN.

The first year here he got rid of Tyson, etc but still preached about playoffs. We ended up having 17 wins. He decided instead of just continuing to rebuild we should improve the roster which led to Rolo & Afflalo. We were stuck with players that were in their primes/out their primes, when we JUST had 17 wins & the writing on the wall is saying “You dumb shmuck just rebuild”.

So he says fu*k it I failed at contending let me try again. He goes for Rose & Noah when it’s clearly not a smart decision and then you say Noah is the only bad thing when Phil already gave you hints of his bad decision making which would only be compounded with signing Noah.

Obviously we end up having a terrible season and get a top 10 pick and this is where he decides we need to have a youth movement and Melo isn’t in the plans when he could’ve just told the man to leave instead of just giving him a 124 million contract & giving him a NTC when he asked for it.

That is incompetent at its finest.

He should’ve just COACHED instead of trying to be a coach while being in the front office. Publicly airing out players, talking about opposing players, mandating a system when you’re not coaching or doing the day to day training?

What the fu*k?

To say he wanted to win a championship is pointless. That's the goal of every front office. What differs is how they go about it.

You want to harp on the Melo signing and hindsight is 20/20. However, I'm pretty sure most teams in the NBA would have done the same thing if in his position. So now we have Melo and need to compete while he's here... Did he trade for a bad contract? No, Rose was a one and done. While a big deal, Noah is the only horrible contract we've been saddled with.

Not saying he was a great PBO, but he's far from the worst. Remember when we had a team that was stuck with the long term contracts of Marbury, Steve Francis, Jalen Rose, Eddy Curry, Maurice Taylor, Malik Rose, and Jerome James; along with no picks?

Edit: Writing that last sentence gave me palpitations...

[Greenie]

I didn't read anything that Grant was a Gaines pick...seems like that was more of a Phil pick with more his familiarity with the grant family. I read a ton that Gaines told Phil to go with KP but I haven't found anything in terms of his connection to Grant.

Gaines also told Phil to sign Galloway as a rookie free agent.

Are you being serious with this?
Gaines was Phil’s main scout.

He’s had hits and misses just like every other scout.

A scout dont mean you make the Pick. Grant is an NBA player regardless to whom or what. So even if Gaines Scouted Grant, does not mean Phil HAD to pick him at that spot. sometimes that decision falls squarely on the GM. There is no record of Gaines pushing Grant at all. Yet we can find all the other players that Gaines was associated with and did extensive scouting on. Grant could have been on a big board given to Phil. If Grant was picked in the second round nobody would be saying anything.

Yes he would if we’re playing the “don’t question Gaines” game.

[HarthorneWingo]

I didn't read anything that Grant was a Gaines pick...seems like that was more of a Phil pick with more his familiarity with the grant family. I read a ton that Gaines told Phil to go with KP but I haven't found anything in terms of his connection to Grant.

Gaines also told Phil to sign Galloway as a rookie free agent.

Are you being serious with this?
Gaines was Phil’s main scout.

He’s had hits and misses just like every other scout.

A scout dont mean you make the Pick. Grant is an NBA player regardless to whom or what. So even if Gaines Scouted Grant, does not mean Phil HAD to pick him at that spot. sometimes that decision falls squarely on the GM. There is no record of Gaines pushing Grant at all. Yet we can find all the other players that Gaines was associated with. Grant could have been on a big board given to Phil. If Grant was picked in the second round nobody would be saying anything.

Of course it falls on the GM. It ALWAYS falls on the GM.

This place is funny. Phil gets **** if it was a bad move and gets no credit if it was a good one.

[god shammgod]

the knicks sucked his whole tenure and almost all of the players he signed or traded for sucked...but because they sucked so bad that they were able to get two top 10 picks, and he didn't screw those picks up, somehow now you want to try to paint his tenure as a positive......as if....that's all i'm saying.....as if

And Willy. You forgot him. You also left out KOQ and Courtney Lee who were solid picks.

Phil made some pressured moves to try and get jackass Melo some veteran help. Noah and Rose didn't work out.

Phil was about to turn the page and start the full rebuild when he got canned. Do you think he would've spent $71M on Timmy?

willy is pretty mediocre. i didn't forget about him. and right, it's melo's fault that phil made dumb moves. stop it.

p.s. the word was he was gonna re-sign rose. also, do people forget he was thinking about trading kp. now that kp is scoring 30 points on most nights, i don't hear a lot of "he's a bitch for skipping the exit meeting" talk. some of you were ready to choose phil over kp. shame on you.

look, i'm not arguing about this with anyone. he got fired for a reason, everyone knew he was disaster. phil sucked and you'll like it. discussion over.

[IllmaticHandler]

Are you being serious with this?
Gaines was Phil’s main scout.

He’s had hits and misses just like every other scout.

A scout dont mean you make the Pick. Grant is an NBA player regardless to whom or what. So even if Gaines Scouted Grant, does not mean Phil HAD to pick him at that spot. sometimes that decision falls squarely on the GM. There is no record of Gaines pushing Grant at all. Yet we can find all the other players that Gaines was associated with and did extensive scouting on. Grant could have been on a big board given to Phil. If Grant was picked in the second round nobody would be saying anything.

Yes he would if we’re playing the “don’t question Gaines” game.

You do know Grant was picked by the Wizards right? You do know that he was not our pick and was TRADED for by Phil. How much does Gaines really have to do with that. You have no proof on what gaines connection to that player was.

[Greenie]

A scout dont mean you make the Pick. Grant is an NBA player regardless to whom or what. So even if Gaines Scouted Grant, does not mean Phil HAD to pick him at that spot. sometimes that decision falls squarely on the GM. There is no record of Gaines pushing Grant at all. Yet we can find all the other players that Gaines was associated with and did extensive scouting on. Grant could have been on a big board given to Phil. If Grant was picked in the second round nobody would be saying anything.

Yes he would if we’re playing the “don’t question Gaines” game.

You do know Grant was picked by the Wizards right? You do know that he was not our pick and was TRADED for by Phil. How much does Gaines really have to do with that. You have no proof on what gaines connection to that player was.

Then take Willy off the table too.
Willy was drafted by Philly.
Phil traded for him too.

So all Gaines has is KP and Early.
He’s 1/2.

We can question his picks until we see them play.

[HarthorneWingo]

A scout dont mean you make the Pick. Grant is an NBA player regardless to whom or what. So even if Gaines Scouted Grant, does not mean Phil HAD to pick him at that spot. sometimes that decision falls squarely on the GM. There is no record of Gaines pushing Grant at all. Yet we can find all the other players that Gaines was associated with and did extensive scouting on. Grant could have been on a big board given to Phil. If Grant was picked in the second round nobody would be saying anything.

Yes he would if we’re playing the “don’t question Gaines” game.

You do know Grant was picked by the Wizards right? You do know that he was not our pick and was TRADED for by Phil. How much does Gaines really have to do with that. You have no proof on what gaines connection to that player was.

Phil may have still gotten that trade right! Unfortunately, can't make it again because the salaries won't match up.

[god shammgod]

A scout dont mean you make the Pick. Grant is an NBA player regardless to whom or what. So even if Gaines Scouted Grant, does not mean Phil HAD to pick him at that spot. sometimes that decision falls squarely on the GM. There is no record of Gaines pushing Grant at all. Yet we can find all the other players that Gaines was associated with and did extensive scouting on. Grant could have been on a big board given to Phil. If Grant was picked in the second round nobody would be saying anything.

Yes he would if we’re playing the “don’t question Gaines” game.

You do know Grant was picked by the Wizards right? You do know that he was not our pick and was TRADED for by Phil. How much does Gaines really have to do with that. You have no proof on what gaines connection to that player was.

this is not my argument but that's never how that works. that team makes the pick for you. it was already discussed before hand and they picked grant because that's who the knicks wanted.

[HarthorneWingo]

the knicks sucked his whole tenure and almost all of the players he signed or traded for sucked...but because they sucked so bad that they were able to get two top 10 picks, and he didn't screw those picks up, somehow now you want to try to paint his tenure as a positive......as if....that's all i'm saying.....as if

And Willy. You forgot him. You also left out KOQ and Courtney Lee who were solid picks.

Phil made some pressured moves to try and get jackass Melo some veteran help. Noah and Rose didn't work out.

Phil was about to turn the page and start the full rebuild when he got canned. Do you think he would've spent $71M on Timmy?

willy is pretty mediocre. i didn't forget about him. and right, it's melo's fault that phil made dumb moves. stop it.

p.s. the word was he was gonna re-sign rose. also, do people forget he was thinking about trading kp. now that kp is scoring 30 points on most nights, i don't hear a lot of "he's a bitch for skipping the exit meeting" talk. some of you were ready to choose phil over kp. shame on you.

look, i'm not arguing about this with anyone. he got fired for a reason, everyone knew he was disaster. phil sucked and you'll like it. discussion over.

Didn't Gomez make the all rookie team as a second rounder?

He wasn't going to bring Rose back and he wasn't trading KP. C'mon now.

[Knicks_Fan2]

the knicks sucked his whole tenure and almost all of the players he signed or traded for sucked...but because they sucked so bad that they were able to get two top 10 picks, and he didn't screw those picks up, somehow now you want to try to paint his tenure as a positive......as if....that's all i'm saying.....as if

And Willy. You forgot him. You also left out KOQ and Courtney Lee who were solid picks.

Phil made some pressured moves to try and get jackass Melo some veteran help. Noah and Rose didn't work out.

Phil was about to turn the page and start the full rebuild when he got canned. Do you think he would've spent $71M on Timmy?

And still forced us to play an archaic offense so i dont care. Good riddance.