Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank

[Capn'O]

Unless the Knicks are penny pinching for cap space, they should pick it up anyways. If he doesn't amount to much, someone else will take a flyer on him especially if they have an additional year (20-21) to work with him

Most likely. If we pick a guard in the draft though it has to be considered, just from a roster standpoint. Suns exited the Dragan and a couple other rookie deals got the team option dropped this season alone.

yea but Frank has at least one NBA skill: defense.

Dragan had none.
I forget some of the other players they didn't pick up, but I don't think they had any either

My guy Korkmaz can play. That's one I don't really understand. I guess they needed the space.

In any event, I'm not gonna point myself into a corner where I'm arguing that we should dump the option. I'm not there yet at all. But I could be and more to the point, the Knicks could.

[whocares1]

I agree with Knicksfan1992 on this. If a team needs a defensive minded wing, you can find that for cheap. I would even debate whether an elite version of that is even needed. A competent one is normally enough to get the job done.

The Warriors would disagree with that. Draymond Green (pre 2018) (will get more than $16m in his next contract), Andre Iguodala (got 3 yrs $48M recently), and Shaun Livingston (got a 3 yr $24M extension but could have gotten way more) are all defensive minded players. Yes, they are more well rounded than Frank (obviously) and Roberson lite players. You can get guys on the scrap heap if you want to establish a culture on a rebuilding team. If you want to win for real, you have to pay up for those players.

This essentially nullifies your argument. The players you listed aren’t just defensive players. You’d have to bring up strictly defensive players who got paid to back your argument. I would’ve went with Marcus Smart but there was definitely sentimental value in that contract as well.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Frank still has time, but he has to develop much better than he has. Frank being just a 3 & D player is essentially a bust of a draft pick. 3&D can be found in the 2nd round. That's Dameyean Dotson, a second round pick. Those guys don't even stay on team that long unless they are elite at what they do. A team shouldn't invest in that.

Ariza seems to be the comparison lately. He's a role player, drafted in the 2nd round, outside of Houston he's bounced all over the league. No teams invests in a player like Ariza.

Batum would be a more acceptable growth goal. Even if Frank doesn't become a reliable scorer he needs to at least become a reliable playmaker, be able to knock down the 3 consistently and play premier defense.

I think his playmaking right now is his best offensive trait so I don't see the whole 3/D player when he already can run an offense and has solid passing vision. To become a 3/D he's going to have to be able to shoot it...which he is really struggling to do that.

So I don't see him strictly as 3/D because its not like he needs to add playmaking (he can improve there) but he already runs the P&R nicely. It's really his shot that is holding him back offensively right now. No one respects it.

You have to be honest. Frank isn't a playmaker right now. He's basic at best and that's being generous.

i think his lack of scoring takes away from playmaking opportunities. but the kid has vision and passing skills. even fancy passes when he wants.

it's crazy because there was a period last season when he was kinda loose out there and throwing some crazy passes over distance... in traffic. maybe he was being underestimated? maybe KP opened things up more? i don't know. but i don't know why his playmaking needs to be diminished.

[mpharris36]

just look at burke last year or mudiay/trier this year...we have found 3 guys for basically nothing...that contribute on offense but the one thing that has stayed consistent is our defense is atrocious.

Mudiay was an atrocious offensive player as well as his defense.

Trier was undrafted mainly due to scandal and lower ceiling as an upperclassmen.

Burke was never a consistent offensive threat. His inconsistencies on offense made him not stick in the NBA, not his defense.

You can equally say that we found Mitchell Robinson for nothing as well. Our offense is atrocious as well it isn’t just the defense.

i mean mitch was a projected last 1st rounder that slipped because he had no college experience and we got lucky.

those are not the same as two undrafted FA's and a trade for a middling second rounder.

Early 2nd are pretty valuable pieces but Mitchell is raw too he's got a long way to go. But he doesn't need much offensively to be contributing because of his defensive impact.

[Thugger HBC]

I think his playmaking right now is his best offensive trait so I don't see the whole 3/D player when he already can run an offense and has solid passing vision. To become a 3/D he's going to have to be able to shoot it...which he is really struggling to do that.

So I don't see him strictly as 3/D because its not like he needs to add playmaking (he can improve there) but he already runs the P&R nicely. It's really his shot that is holding him back offensively right now. No one respects it.

You have to be honest. Frank isn't a playmaker right now. He's basic at best and that's being generous.

i think his lack of scoring takes away from playmaking opportunities. but the kid has vision and passing skills. even fancy passes when he wants.

it's crazy because there was a period last season when he was kinda loose out there and throwing some crazy passes over distance... in traffic. maybe he was being underestimated? maybe KP opened things up more? i don't know. but i don't know why his playmaking needs to be diminished.

Most of those passes were to the bigs iirc. I do think having KP on the floor opened up a lot of opportunities but that a different thread for me.

I still say Franks issues are primarily in his head. I don't question his ability much, he's shown he can do what he needs to. Just have to put it together game by game and that's all in his mind.

[whocares1]

just look at burke last year or mudiay/trier this year...we have found 3 guys for basically nothing...that contribute on offense but the one thing that has stayed consistent is our defense is atrocious.

Mudiay was an atrocious offensive player as well as his defense.

Trier was undrafted mainly due to scandal and lower ceiling as an upperclassmen.

Burke was never a consistent offensive threat. His inconsistencies on offense made him not stick in the NBA, not his defense.

You can equally say that we found Mitchell Robinson for nothing as well. Our offense is atrocious as well it isn’t just the defense.

i mean mitch was a projected last 1st rounder that slipped because he had no college experience and we got lucky.

those are not the same as two undrafted FA's and a trade for a second rounder.

Sure, but my point wasn’t centered around Mitch tho he was a supporting argument. Those players had low value not because they were offensive players only. They had low value because they were terrible period. On both sides of the ball. They just so happen to be slightly better on offense but they aren’t offensive players just offensive minded.

[whocares1]

You have to be honest. Frank isn't a playmaker right now. He's basic at best and that's being generous.

i think his lack of scoring takes away from playmaking opportunities. but the kid has vision and passing skills. even fancy passes when he wants.

it's crazy because there was a period last season when he was kinda loose out there and throwing some crazy passes over distance... in traffic. maybe he was being underestimated? maybe KP opened things up more? i don't know. but i don't know why his playmaking needs to be diminished.

Most of those passes were to the bigs iirc. I do think having KP on the floor opened up a lot of opportunities but that a different thread for me.

I still say Franks issues are primarily in his head. I don't question his ability much, he's shown he can do what he needs to. Just have to put it together game by game and that's all in his mind.

He’s a mechanical offensive player that thinks before he moves. Not just when he shoots but literally any aspect of offense for Frank is overanalyzed to a fault. He should try to have more fun.

[Thugger HBC]

i think his lack of scoring takes away from playmaking opportunities. but the kid has vision and passing skills. even fancy passes when he wants.

it's crazy because there was a period last season when he was kinda loose out there and throwing some crazy passes over distance... in traffic. maybe he was being underestimated? maybe KP opened things up more? i don't know. but i don't know why his playmaking needs to be diminished.

Most of those passes were to the bigs iirc. I do think having KP on the floor opened up a lot of opportunities but that a different thread for me.

I still say Franks issues are primarily in his head. I don't question his ability much, he's shown he can do what he needs to. Just have to put it together game by game and that's all in his mind.

He’s a mechanical offensive player that thinks before he moves. Not just when he shoots but literally any aspect of offense for Frank is overanalyzed to a fault. He should try to have more fun.

he couldn't even do that in the rookie -sophomore game.

[mpharris36]

Mudiay was an atrocious offensive player as well as his defense.

Trier was undrafted mainly due to scandal and lower ceiling as an upperclassmen.

Burke was never a consistent offensive threat. His inconsistencies on offense made him not stick in the NBA, not his defense.

You can equally say that we found Mitchell Robinson for nothing as well. Our offense is atrocious as well it isn’t just the defense.

i mean mitch was a projected last 1st rounder that slipped because he had no college experience and we got lucky.

those are not the same as two undrafted FA's and a trade for a second rounder.

Sure, but my point wasn’t centered around Mitch tho he was a supporting argument. Those players had low value not because they were offensive players only. They had low value because they were terrible period. On both sides of the ball. They just so happen to be slightly better on offense but they aren’t offensive players just offensive minded.

fair but mudiay an burke were high level investments originally because people thought they would be really good offensive players...not because they were defensive players. I think defensive players are harder to come by especially guys competent on offense. I think offensive only role/contributing players are easier to come by.

Obviously superstars are the hardest but two way players are the second hardest and we can only hope Frank can develop that offense where he becomes competent on that end.

[HEZI]

All those things people say Frank has shown flashes of we've seen that plus more from Mudiay but those high on Frank aren't high on Mudiay. Its just interesting

[Jeff Van Gully]

All those things people say Frank has shown flashes of we've seen that plus more from Mudiay but those high on Frank aren't high on Mudiay. Its just interesting

who are you talking about? this comment is useless generalization.

[whocares1]

All those things people say Frank has shown flashes of we've seen that plus more from Mudiay but those high on Frank aren't high on Mudiay. Its just interesting

They’re not even remotely similar tho. Mudiay is an attacking guard who’s better with the ball in his hands. Frank is a passive guard who has potential as an off ball floor spacer/3 point shooter. Mudiay’s ceiling isn’t high enough for us to give him the point guard spot for the future. At least we can stash Frank and try him out at the 2 and 3.

[HEZI]

[gfycat][/gfycat]

All those things people say Frank has shown flashes of we've seen that plus more from Mudiay but those high on Frank aren't high on Mudiay. Its just interesting

They’re not even remotely similar tho. Mudiay is an attacking guard who’s better with the ball in his hands. Frank is a passive guard who has potential as an off ball floor spacer/3 point shooter. Mudiay’s ceiling isn’t high enough for us to give him the point guard spot for the future. At least we can stash Frank and try him out at the 2 and 3.

For the PG position who is better?

Neither are good but one has shown a lot more than the other

[MaseInYourFace]

i think his lack of scoring takes away from playmaking opportunities. but the kid has vision and passing skills. even fancy passes when he wants.

it's crazy because there was a period last season when he was kinda loose out there and throwing some crazy passes over distance... in traffic. maybe he was being underestimated? maybe KP opened things up more? i don't know. but i don't know why his playmaking needs to be diminished.

Most of those passes were to the bigs iirc. I do think having KP on the floor opened up a lot of opportunities but that a different thread for me.

I still say Franks issues are primarily in his head. I don't question his ability much, he's shown he can do what he needs to. Just have to put it together game by game and that's all in his mind.

He’s a mechanical offensive player that thinks before he moves. Not just when he shoots but literally any aspect of offense for Frank is overanalyzed to a fault. He should try to have more fun.

Yeah and as an on the ball guard it's expected you have a certain level of natural feel for the game. I do think Frank has some natural feel passing wise but otherwise no he's extremely mechanical.

[Thugger HBC]

[gfycat][/gfycat]

All those things people say Frank has shown flashes of we've seen that plus more from Mudiay but those high on Frank aren't high on Mudiay. Its just interesting

They’re not even remotely similar tho. Mudiay is an attacking guard who’s better with the ball in his hands. Frank is a passive guard who has potential as an off ball floor spacer/3 point shooter. Mudiay’s ceiling isn’t high enough for us to give him the point guard spot for the future. At least we can stash Frank and try him out at the 2 and 3.

For the PG position who is better?

Neither are good but one has shown a lot more than the other

Neither player should be viewed as pg for the future. Mudiay might only because the trio view him as their project.

[dakomish23]

I think his playmaking right now is his best offensive trait so I don't see the whole 3/D player when he already can run an offense and has solid passing vision. To become a 3/D he's going to have to be able to shoot it...which he is really struggling to do that.

So I don't see him strictly as 3/D because its not like he needs to add playmaking (he can improve there) but he already runs the P&R nicely. It's really his shot that is holding him back offensively right now. No one respects it.

You have to be honest. Frank isn't a playmaker right now. He's basic at best and that's being generous.

i think his lack of scoring takes away from playmaking opportunities. but the kid has vision and passing skills. even fancy passes when he wants.

it's crazy because there was a period last season when he was kinda loose out there and throwing some crazy passes over distance... in traffic. maybe he was being underestimated? maybe KP opened things up more? i don't know. but i don't know why his playmaking needs to be diminished.

Watch on YouTube

This seems to be the exact type of game you’re referring to. Everyone was so hyped.

[whocares1]

[gfycat][/gfycat]

All those things people say Frank has shown flashes of we've seen that plus more from Mudiay but those high on Frank aren't high on Mudiay. Its just interesting

They’re not even remotely similar tho. Mudiay is an attacking guard who’s better with the ball in his hands. Frank is a passive guard who has potential as an off ball floor spacer/3 point shooter. Mudiay’s ceiling isn’t high enough for us to give him the point guard spot for the future. At least we can stash Frank and try him out at the 2 and 3.

For the PG position who is better?

Neither are good but one has shown a lot more than the other

Mudiay but I’d rather have neither be the starting point guard to be honest. We really need a legitimate point guard.

[HEZI]

[gfycat][/gfycat]

They’re not even remotely similar tho. Mudiay is an attacking guard who’s better with the ball in his hands. Frank is a passive guard who has potential as an off ball floor spacer/3 point shooter. Mudiay’s ceiling isn’t high enough for us to give him the point guard spot for the future. At least we can stash Frank and try him out at the 2 and 3.

For the PG position who is better?

Neither are good but one has shown a lot more than the other

Neither player should be viewed as pg for the future. Mudiay might only because the trio view him as their project.

Basically

Vonleh can play Frank's role of getting us into our sets and I expect Knox to be developed into an initiator as well. Mudiay becomes useless and we should be looking for a dynamic scoring guard like a Jamal Murray type

[HEZI]

[gfycat][/gfycat]

They’re not even remotely similar tho. Mudiay is an attacking guard who’s better with the ball in his hands. Frank is a passive guard who has potential as an off ball floor spacer/3 point shooter. Mudiay’s ceiling isn’t high enough for us to give him the point guard spot for the future. At least we can stash Frank and try him out at the 2 and 3.

For the PG position who is better?

Neither are good but one has shown a lot more than the other

Mudiay but I’d rather have neither be the starting point guard to be honest. We really need a legitimate point guard.

100%

[Thugger HBC]

[gfycat][/gfycat]

For the PG position who is better?

Neither are good but one has shown a lot more than the other

Neither player should be viewed as pg for the future. Mudiay might only because the trio view him as their project.

Basically

Vonleh can play Frank's role of getting us into our sets and I expect Knox to be developed into an initiator as well. Mudiay becomes useless and we should be looking for a dynamic scoring guard like a Jamal Murray type

Well, anytime Vonleh's name is mentioned, I'm in full support. that guy is a keeper.

But seriously, i dont see Frank as a pg, but hopefully if the team stays with him in the fold he can develop a consistent three and help make plays along with improving defensively.