Draft Thread 2: The Electric Draftaloo

[thebuzzardman]

Almost had a heart attack when I say that the Cavs and Knicks had discussed a trade. Though it was for the 3rd overall pic lol.

But I'd be ok with the Cavs 26th for Frank. It's clear the Knicks don't believe Frank's a fit in what they want to do. So no reason hanging onto him and, more importantly, that near $5 in cap space.

The 26th pic, assuming they even keep it, counts only $1.4 million against the cap. Knicks would clear about $3.5 million more in cap space

As far as player options at 26? Maybe someone to replace Vonleh? Dikembe Mutombos nephew, Mfiondu Kabengele is a big long armed mobile defender that can shoot from 3. He'd be a good fit in what the Knicks appear to want to run.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

Yup. I was saying something similar in the "offseason" topic.

That 5 million differential may matter to the Knicks. Capologists on here I believe were saying it was pretty much a given a player in the DSJr/Frank/Knox range would have to go to either give the max cats all the max they want, or barring they want every last cent, to have greater flexibility in general.
Add in IF Kyrie (or Kemba) with Durant are a thing, then there is guard log jam, particularly at PG, but also at SG and SF has enough players as well - making Frank more likely to go. Plus the FO opinion of him is pretty clear.

I would have preferred they keep him and let him develop - I THINK he still could, and would have been useful in a tall switchable defense coming off bench to guard PG. But he may never pan past a a situational defender and grabbing that late first rounder would be a way cheaper to have asset, where the Knicks may have a few targets they like and/or the Pels may want the somewhat cheaper player of similar perceived playing value.

The 26th pick would be another asset if they were making an offer for AD, and then in that trade it would no longer put the Knicks a little past cap space for three max cats

I figure so, but as the player drafted there is paid less, doesn't that mean the Knicks have to put more players into the deal to match AD's salary?

As it was, with assumptions Frank was in the deal, it felt like there already a decent # of players that had to go out just to make the deal work cap wise - like at least 3 AND those end of the year filler guys no one cared about who will get cut by the Pels.

Wouldn't it basically have to be AT LEAST 2/3 of RJ/Knox/DSJr + Player X at 26 - I fell like that's around 16 million. I'm roughly assigning 7 million per for RJ and one of Knox or DSJr.

Isn't that about 9 million short? Means Knox has to go into the deal. Plus filler.

Taking Frank out and exchanging him for a player who makes 4 or 5 million less, cap wise, means absolutely having to part with every other young guy, outside of Dotson and Trier and Mitch, though Trier has the 3.5 million which could be useful. Or became useful because the Knicks had to trade Frank out for a lower cap cost player.

I may be misunderstanding this.


I think the Knicks are doing due dilligence around a Frank trade - which they should, but - just a guess - is this a scenario more geared towards to JUST clearing cap for KD & ? OR lining up a trade if the AD thing doesn't work out?

Feels like the move makes an AD trade a little more difficult/asset rich, instead of less. Maybe. Pure speculation and again, I'm no capologist.

[Worst_to_First]

The Frank for the 26th pick talks could be part of a bigger trade package between us and the Cavs.

I remember when the Wes Matthews for Tim Hardaway Jr trade rumor came out and ended up being just a part of something way bigger.

[King of Canada]

Yup. I was saying something similar in the "offseason" topic.

That 5 million differential may matter to the Knicks. Capologists on here I believe were saying it was pretty much a given a player in the DSJr/Frank/Knox range would have to go to either give the max cats all the max they want, or barring they want every last cent, to have greater flexibility in general.
Add in IF Kyrie (or Kemba) with Durant are a thing, then there is guard log jam, particularly at PG, but also at SG and SF has enough players as well - making Frank more likely to go. Plus the FO opinion of him is pretty clear.

I would have preferred they keep him and let him develop - I THINK he still could, and would have been useful in a tall switchable defense coming off bench to guard PG. But he may never pan past a a situational defender and grabbing that late first rounder would be a way cheaper to have asset, where the Knicks may have a few targets they like and/or the Pels may want the somewhat cheaper player of similar perceived playing value.

The 26th pick would be another asset if they were making an offer for AD, and then in that trade it would no longer put the Knicks a little past cap space for three max cats

I figure so, but as the player drafted there is paid less, doesn't that mean the Knicks have to put more players into the deal to match AD's salary?

As it was, with assumptions Frank was in the deal, it felt like there already a decent # of players that had to go out just to make the deal work cap wise - like at least 3 AND those end of the year filler guys no one cared about who will get cut by the Pels.

Wouldn't it basically have to be AT LEAST 2/3 of RJ/Knox/DSJr + Player X at 26 - I fell like that's around 16 million. I'm roughly assigning 7 million per for RJ and one of Knox or DSJr.

Isn't that about 9 million short? Means Knox has to go into the deal. Plus filler.

Taking Frank out and exchanging him for a player who makes 4 or 5 million less, cap wise, means absolutely having to part with every other young guy, outside of Dotson and Trier and Mitch, though Trier has the 3.5 million which could be useful. Or became useful because the Knicks had to trade Frank out for a lower cap cost player.

I may be misunderstanding this.


I think the Knicks are doing due dilligence around a Frank trade - which they should, but - just a guess - is this a scenario more geared towards to JUST clearing cap for KD & ? OR lining up a trade if the AD thing doesn't work out?

Feels like the move makes an AD trade a little more difficult/asset rich, instead of less. Maybe. Pure speculation and again, I'm no capologist.

I think that by converting Frank to cap space plus a pick allows us to have a higher total of cap space before the trade is made. That means that in the event of a trade we can send the pick to NOL (which they may want more than Frank), and then keep Frank's cap space to absorb more of AD's 27mill salary, leaving us with still two max slots.

[robillionaire]

The Frank for the 26th pick talks could be part of a bigger trade package between us and the Cavs.

I remember when the Wes Matthews for Tim Hardaway Jr trade rumor came out and ended up being just a part of something way bigger.

could be also trading the 3rd back to the 6th, but I'm not sure what we'd want in return for that

[thebuzzardman]

The 26th pick would be another asset if they were making an offer for AD, and then in that trade it would no longer put the Knicks a little past cap space for three max cats

I figure so, but as the player drafted there is paid less, doesn't that mean the Knicks have to put more players into the deal to match AD's salary?

As it was, with assumptions Frank was in the deal, it felt like there already a decent # of players that had to go out just to make the deal work cap wise - like at least 3 AND those end of the year filler guys no one cared about who will get cut by the Pels.

Wouldn't it basically have to be AT LEAST 2/3 of RJ/Knox/DSJr + Player X at 26 - I fell like that's around 16 million. I'm roughly assigning 7 million per for RJ and one of Knox or DSJr.

Isn't that about 9 million short? Means Knox has to go into the deal. Plus filler.

Taking Frank out and exchanging him for a player who makes 4 or 5 million less, cap wise, means absolutely having to part with every other young guy, outside of Dotson and Trier and Mitch, though Trier has the 3.5 million which could be useful. Or became useful because the Knicks had to trade Frank out for a lower cap cost player.

I may be misunderstanding this.


I think the Knicks are doing due dilligence around a Frank trade - which they should, but - just a guess - is this a scenario more geared towards to JUST clearing cap for KD & ? OR lining up a trade if the AD thing doesn't work out?

Feels like the move makes an AD trade a little more difficult/asset rich, instead of less. Maybe. Pure speculation and again, I'm no capologist.

I think that by converting Frank to cap space plus a pick allows us to have a higher total of cap space before the trade is made. That means that in the event of a trade we can send the pick to NOL (which they may want more than Frank), and then keep Frank's cap space to absorb more of AD's 27mill salary, leaving us with still two max slots.

Not disagreeing, and again, I'm only "ok" at getting this stuff sometimes, but I was under the impression the only way to get AD as as 3rd guy was after the draft. So, the Knicks would have some more cap space, but still have the issue of having to send matching dollars within 125% of AD's salary.

AD is 25 million per. How does it work again - ah, here it is:

Spoiler:

Trading and the salary cap
Teams below the salary cap may trade without regard to salary, as long as they don't end up more than $100,000 above the cap following a trade.

Teams above the cap (or teams below the cap but would end up more than $100,000 over the cap following a trade) cannot acquire more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary they trade away. Under the 2011 CBA, teams that remain below the luxury tax threshold even after the trade can acquire the lesser of 150% plus $100,000, or 100% plus $5 million, of the salary they trade away.

[7] There is no lower limit—teams may divest themselves of as much salary as they wish (or can convince another team to take on) in a trade.

No free agent signed in the offseason can be traded until December 15 of that year or until three months have passed (whichever comes later), a rule that prevents teams from signing free agents with the intent of using them strictly as trade fodder. For draft picks this moratorium lasts 30 days.

If teams acquire a player in a trade, they are allowed to trade that player straight-up for another individual player immediately. However, if teams wish to package that player with another and make a trade, they must wait 60 days before doing so.
The tight salary-matching rules of the 2005 CBA often required what NBA cap analyst Larry Coon called "trade ballast"—extra players added to a deal solely for salary matching, who would typically be waived by their new teams. Under that CBA, such players were restricted from rejoining their original teams for 30 days during the season or 20 days in the offseason. This led to what Coon called "wink-wink deals where players are traded with the full expectation of returning later." A notable example of such a deal occurred in the 2009–10 season, in which the Cleveland Cavaliers included Zydrunas Ilgauskas in their trade with the Washington Wizards for Antawn Jamison. Ilgauskas was waived a week later without ever appearing in a game for the Wizards, and re-signed with Cleveland after the 30-day waiting period passed. Since the 2011 CBA, a player acquired in a trade and waived by his new team cannot re-sign with his original team until one year after the trade or July 1 after the expiration of his contract, whichever is sooner.[7]

Since I"m being a little slow here, but if they can't acquire more than 125% of what they trade away, Knicks have to sent out atleast 21 million in outgoing contracts, right?

RJ - 7 million, Knox 7 million, Frank Replacement guy - 1.5 million. Let's say 16 million. Knicks still need to add in 5 million worth of guys.
Trier is a KD buddy - seems unlikely.
Future picks have no $ assigned to them, so it has to be players.

But with Frank going to the Pels instead of his #25 replacement:

RJ+Knox+Frank+ year end filler + future picks (mavs picks) - deal matches up.

Again, I might be totally misunderstanding Frank freeing up space.

OR

Frank is traded to free up space for KD & ? and Knicks will put:

RJ/Knox/DSJr + picks into a trade for AD.

Which leads to:

PG: Kyrie/?
SG: Trier/Dotson
SF: Durant/?
PF: ?/?
C: Mitch/DJ
Maybe #26 pick.

[DOT]

Spoiler:

I figure so, but as the player drafted there is paid less, doesn't that mean the Knicks have to put more players into the deal to match AD's salary?

As it was, with assumptions Frank was in the deal, it felt like there already a decent # of players that had to go out just to make the deal work cap wise - like at least 3 AND those end of the year filler guys no one cared about who will get cut by the Pels.

Wouldn't it basically have to be AT LEAST 2/3 of RJ/Knox/DSJr + Player X at 26 - I fell like that's around 16 million. I'm roughly assigning 7 million per for RJ and one of Knox or DSJr.

Isn't that about 9 million short? Means Knox has to go into the deal. Plus filler.

Taking Frank out and exchanging him for a player who makes 4 or 5 million less, cap wise, means absolutely having to part with every other young guy, outside of Dotson and Trier and Mitch, though Trier has the 3.5 million which could be useful. Or became useful because the Knicks had to trade Frank out for a lower cap cost player.

I may be misunderstanding this.


I think the Knicks are doing due dilligence around a Frank trade - which they should, but - just a guess - is this a scenario more geared towards to JUST clearing cap for KD & ? OR lining up a trade if the AD thing doesn't work out?

Feels like the move makes an AD trade a little more difficult/asset rich, instead of less. Maybe. Pure speculation and again, I'm no capologist.

I think that by converting Frank to cap space plus a pick allows us to have a higher total of cap space before the trade is made. That means that in the event of a trade we can send the pick to NOL (which they may want more than Frank), and then keep Frank's cap space to absorb more of AD's 27mill salary, leaving us with still two max slots.

Not disagreeing, and again, I'm only "ok" at getting this stuff sometimes, but I was under the impression the only way to get AD as as 3rd guy was after the draft. So, the Knicks would have some more cap space, but still have the issue of having to send matching dollars within 125% of AD's salary.

AD is 25 million per. How does it work again - ah, here it is:

[]Trading and the salary cap
Teams below the salary cap may trade without regard to salary, as long as they don't end up more than $100,000 above the cap following a trade.

Teams above the cap (or teams below the cap but would end up more than $100,000 over the cap following a trade) cannot acquire more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary they trade away. Under the 2011 CBA, teams that remain below the luxury tax threshold even after the trade can acquire the lesser of 150% plus $100,000, or 100% plus $5 million, of the salary they trade away.

[7] There is no lower limit—teams may divest themselves of as much salary as they wish (or can convince another team to take on) in a trade.

No free agent signed in the offseason can be traded until December 15 of that year or until three months have passed (whichever comes later), a rule that prevents teams from signing free agents with the intent of using them strictly as trade fodder. For draft picks this moratorium lasts 30 days.

If teams acquire a player in a trade, they are allowed to trade that player straight-up for another individual player immediately. However, if teams wish to package that player with another and make a trade, they must wait 60 days before doing so.
The tight salary-matching rules of the 2005 CBA often required what NBA cap analyst Larry Coon called "trade ballast"—extra players added to a deal solely for salary matching, who would typically be waived by their new teams. Under that CBA, such players were restricted from rejoining their original teams for 30 days during the season or 20 days in the offseason. This led to what Coon called "wink-wink deals where players are traded with the full expectation of returning later." A notable example of such a deal occurred in the 2009–10 season, in which the Cleveland Cavaliers included Zydrunas Ilgauskas in their trade with the Washington Wizards for Antawn Jamison. Ilgauskas was waived a week later without ever appearing in a game for the Wizards, and re-signed with Cleveland after the 30-day waiting period passed. Since the 2011 CBA, a player acquired in a trade and waived by his new team cannot re-sign with his original team until one year after the trade or July 1 after the expiration of his contract, whichever is sooner.[7][/]

Since I"m being a little slow here, but if they can't acquire more than 125% of what they trade away, Knicks have to sent out atleast 21 million in outgoing contracts, right?

RJ - 7 million, Knox 7 million, Frank Replacement guy - 1.5 million. Let's say 16 million. Knicks still need to add in 5 million worth of guys.
Trier is a KD buddy - seems unlikely.
Future picks have no $ assigned to them, so it has to be players.

But with Frank going to the Pels instead of his #25 replacement:

RJ+Knox+Frank+ year end filler + future picks (mavs picks) - deal matches up.

Again, I might be totally misunderstanding Frank freeing up space.

OR

Frank is traded to free up space for KD & ? and Knicks will put:

RJ/Knox/DSJr + picks into a trade for AD.

Which leads to:

PG: Kyrie/?
SG: Trier/Dotson
SF: Durant/?
PF: ?/?
C: Mitch/DJ
Maybe #26 pick.

See, this is why I'm still hesitant on an AD trade

I know our current core isn't very good, but imo they'd look better being a year older and being role players instead of core pieces, but if we trade them all for AD we'd have a fantastic starting 5, probably the best in the league, but no depth at all. Which could be a problem when 2 of our big 3 have injury histories, and the other is 30

Yes, you risk a situation like last year in LA, but I think it's different cause presumably you're bringing in a 2nd star instead of just 1 and hoping the kids play up to par (and I hope Perry is better at roster construction than Magic), plus you keep the 3rd pick which gives you more sustainability in the long term

I get trading for AD, I'm just on the fence on it

[thebuzzardman]

Spoiler:

I think that by converting Frank to cap space plus a pick allows us to have a higher total of cap space before the trade is made. That means that in the event of a trade we can send the pick to NOL (which they may want more than Frank), and then keep Frank's cap space to absorb more of AD's 27mill salary, leaving us with still two max slots.

Not disagreeing, and again, I'm only "ok" at getting this stuff sometimes, but I was under the impression the only way to get AD as as 3rd guy was after the draft. So, the Knicks would have some more cap space, but still have the issue of having to send matching dollars within 125% of AD's salary.

AD is 25 million per. How does it work again - ah, here it is:

[]Trading and the salary cap
Teams below the salary cap may trade without regard to salary, as long as they don't end up more than $100,000 above the cap following a trade.

Teams above the cap (or teams below the cap but would end up more than $100,000 over the cap following a trade) cannot acquire more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary they trade away. Under the 2011 CBA, teams that remain below the luxury tax threshold even after the trade can acquire the lesser of 150% plus $100,000, or 100% plus $5 million, of the salary they trade away.

[7] There is no lower limit—teams may divest themselves of as much salary as they wish (or can convince another team to take on) in a trade.

No free agent signed in the offseason can be traded until December 15 of that year or until three months have passed (whichever comes later), a rule that prevents teams from signing free agents with the intent of using them strictly as trade fodder. For draft picks this moratorium lasts 30 days.

If teams acquire a player in a trade, they are allowed to trade that player straight-up for another individual player immediately. However, if teams wish to package that player with another and make a trade, they must wait 60 days before doing so.
The tight salary-matching rules of the 2005 CBA often required what NBA cap analyst Larry Coon called "trade ballast"—extra players added to a deal solely for salary matching, who would typically be waived by their new teams. Under that CBA, such players were restricted from rejoining their original teams for 30 days during the season or 20 days in the offseason. This led to what Coon called "wink-wink deals where players are traded with the full expectation of returning later." A notable example of such a deal occurred in the 2009–10 season, in which the Cleveland Cavaliers included Zydrunas Ilgauskas in their trade with the Washington Wizards for Antawn Jamison. Ilgauskas was waived a week later without ever appearing in a game for the Wizards, and re-signed with Cleveland after the 30-day waiting period passed. Since the 2011 CBA, a player acquired in a trade and waived by his new team cannot re-sign with his original team until one year after the trade or July 1 after the expiration of his contract, whichever is sooner.[7][/]

Since I"m being a little slow here, but if they can't acquire more than 125% of what they trade away, Knicks have to sent out atleast 21 million in outgoing contracts, right?

RJ - 7 million, Knox 7 million, Frank Replacement guy - 1.5 million. Let's say 16 million. Knicks still need to add in 5 million worth of guys.
Trier is a KD buddy - seems unlikely.
Future picks have no $ assigned to them, so it has to be players.

But with Frank going to the Pels instead of his #25 replacement:

RJ+Knox+Frank+ year end filler + future picks (mavs picks) - deal matches up.

Again, I might be totally misunderstanding Frank freeing up space.

OR

Frank is traded to free up space for KD & ? and Knicks will put:

RJ/Knox/DSJr + picks into a trade for AD.

Which leads to:

PG: Kyrie/?
SG: Trier/Dotson
SF: Durant/?
PF: ?/?
C: Mitch/DJ
Maybe #26 pick.

See, this is why I'm still hesitant on an AD trade

I know our current core isn't very good, but imo they'd look better being a year older and being role players instead of core pieces, but if we trade them all for AD we'd have a fantastic starting 5, probably the best in the league, but no depth at all. Which could be a problem when 2 of our big 3 have injury histories, and the other is 30

Yes, you risk a situation like last year in LA, but I think it's different cause presumably you're bringing in a 2nd star instead of just 1 and hoping the kids play up to par (and I hope Perry is better at roster construction than Magic), plus you keep the 3rd pick which gives you more sustainability in the long term

I get trading for AD, I'm just on the fence on it

Exactly the same spot I'm in and for the same reasons.

And I'll say it again - for the different ways the Knicks can go, and what may or may not happen with FA's - most interesting Knicks off season ever. Initially I said "one of", but the more I think about it, outside the hoopla around LeBron in 2010, which felt more pipe dream like, even at the time, it's this. And I'll give this off season the nod, as there is more reality to it, in that even if FA is a bust, then there are very interesting alternatives in terms of taking on salary for assets etc.

Also, there is added drama in that it seems like this FO is set on a sober path of team building/roster construction, but as fans we aren't sure, so there's also the element of "What will they do, have the Knicks really turned the corner to respectable and smart basketball operations?"

Most cautiously optimistic yet cynically scared I've ever been as a Knick fan

[King of Canada]

Spoiler:

I think that by converting Frank to cap space plus a pick allows us to have a higher total of cap space before the trade is made. That means that in the event of a trade we can send the pick to NOL (which they may want more than Frank), and then keep Frank's cap space to absorb more of AD's 27mill salary, leaving us with still two max slots.

Not disagreeing, and again, I'm only "ok" at getting this stuff sometimes, but I was under the impression the only way to get AD as as 3rd guy was after the draft. So, the Knicks would have some more cap space, but still have the issue of having to send matching dollars within 125% of AD's salary.

AD is 25 million per. How does it work again - ah, here it is:

[]Trading and the salary cap
Teams below the salary cap may trade without regard to salary, as long as they don't end up more than $100,000 above the cap following a trade.

Teams above the cap (or teams below the cap but would end up more than $100,000 over the cap following a trade) cannot acquire more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary they trade away. Under the 2011 CBA, teams that remain below the luxury tax threshold even after the trade can acquire the lesser of 150% plus $100,000, or 100% plus $5 million, of the salary they trade away.

[7] There is no lower limit—teams may divest themselves of as much salary as they wish (or can convince another team to take on) in a trade.

No free agent signed in the offseason can be traded until December 15 of that year or until three months have passed (whichever comes later), a rule that prevents teams from signing free agents with the intent of using them strictly as trade fodder. For draft picks this moratorium lasts 30 days.

If teams acquire a player in a trade, they are allowed to trade that player straight-up for another individual player immediately. However, if teams wish to package that player with another and make a trade, they must wait 60 days before doing so.
The tight salary-matching rules of the 2005 CBA often required what NBA cap analyst Larry Coon called "trade ballast"—extra players added to a deal solely for salary matching, who would typically be waived by their new teams. Under that CBA, such players were restricted from rejoining their original teams for 30 days during the season or 20 days in the offseason. This led to what Coon called "wink-wink deals where players are traded with the full expectation of returning later." A notable example of such a deal occurred in the 2009–10 season, in which the Cleveland Cavaliers included Zydrunas Ilgauskas in their trade with the Washington Wizards for Antawn Jamison. Ilgauskas was waived a week later without ever appearing in a game for the Wizards, and re-signed with Cleveland after the 30-day waiting period passed. Since the 2011 CBA, a player acquired in a trade and waived by his new team cannot re-sign with his original team until one year after the trade or July 1 after the expiration of his contract, whichever is sooner.[7][/]

Since I"m being a little slow here, but if they can't acquire more than 125% of what they trade away, Knicks have to sent out atleast 21 million in outgoing contracts, right?

RJ - 7 million, Knox 7 million, Frank Replacement guy - 1.5 million. Let's say 16 million. Knicks still need to add in 5 million worth of guys.
Trier is a KD buddy - seems unlikely.
Future picks have no $ assigned to them, so it has to be players.

But with Frank going to the Pels instead of his #25 replacement:

RJ+Knox+Frank+ year end filler + future picks (mavs picks) - deal matches up.

Again, I might be totally misunderstanding Frank freeing up space.

OR

Frank is traded to free up space for KD & ? and Knicks will put:

RJ/Knox/DSJr + picks into a trade for AD.

Which leads to:

PG: Kyrie/?
SG: Trier/Dotson
SF: Durant/?
PF: ?/?
C: Mitch/DJ
Maybe #26 pick.

See, this is why I'm still hesitant on an AD trade

I know our current core isn't very good, but imo they'd look better being a year older and being role players instead of core pieces, but if we trade them all for AD we'd have a fantastic starting 5, probably the best in the league, but no depth at all. Which could be a problem when 2 of our big 3 have injury histories, and the other is 30

Yes, you risk a situation like last year in LA, but I think it's different cause presumably you're bringing in a 2nd star instead of just 1 and hoping the kids play up to par (and I hope Perry is better at roster construction than Magic), plus you keep the 3rd pick which gives you more sustainability in the long term

I get trading for AD, I'm just on the fence on it

Buzzardman - I don't think the 125% rule matters when you have cap space

K-Dot - I agree and would be jhsut as happy (maybe happier) to hang onto the youth.

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

[HEZI]

Reddish is the type to blow away in open gym workouts. Watch him become the main target

[Riot Randolph]

Spoiler:

I think that by converting Frank to cap space plus a pick allows us to have a higher total of cap space before the trade is made. That means that in the event of a trade we can send the pick to NOL (which they may want more than Frank), and then keep Frank's cap space to absorb more of AD's 27mill salary, leaving us with still two max slots.

Not disagreeing, and again, I'm only "ok" at getting this stuff sometimes, but I was under the impression the only way to get AD as as 3rd guy was after the draft. So, the Knicks would have some more cap space, but still have the issue of having to send matching dollars within 125% of AD's salary.

AD is 25 million per. How does it work again - ah, here it is:

[]Trading and the salary cap
Teams below the salary cap may trade without regard to salary, as long as they don't end up more than $100,000 above the cap following a trade.

Teams above the cap (or teams below the cap but would end up more than $100,000 over the cap following a trade) cannot acquire more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary they trade away. Under the 2011 CBA, teams that remain below the luxury tax threshold even after the trade can acquire the lesser of 150% plus $100,000, or 100% plus $5 million, of the salary they trade away.

[7] There is no lower limit—teams may divest themselves of as much salary as they wish (or can convince another team to take on) in a trade.

No free agent signed in the offseason can be traded until December 15 of that year or until three months have passed (whichever comes later), a rule that prevents teams from signing free agents with the intent of using them strictly as trade fodder. For draft picks this moratorium lasts 30 days.

If teams acquire a player in a trade, they are allowed to trade that player straight-up for another individual player immediately. However, if teams wish to package that player with another and make a trade, they must wait 60 days before doing so.
The tight salary-matching rules of the 2005 CBA often required what NBA cap analyst Larry Coon called "trade ballast"—extra players added to a deal solely for salary matching, who would typically be waived by their new teams. Under that CBA, such players were restricted from rejoining their original teams for 30 days during the season or 20 days in the offseason. This led to what Coon called "wink-wink deals where players are traded with the full expectation of returning later." A notable example of such a deal occurred in the 2009–10 season, in which the Cleveland Cavaliers included Zydrunas Ilgauskas in their trade with the Washington Wizards for Antawn Jamison. Ilgauskas was waived a week later without ever appearing in a game for the Wizards, and re-signed with Cleveland after the 30-day waiting period passed. Since the 2011 CBA, a player acquired in a trade and waived by his new team cannot re-sign with his original team until one year after the trade or July 1 after the expiration of his contract, whichever is sooner.[7][/]

Since I"m being a little slow here, but if they can't acquire more than 125% of what they trade away, Knicks have to sent out atleast 21 million in outgoing contracts, right?

RJ - 7 million, Knox 7 million, Frank Replacement guy - 1.5 million. Let's say 16 million. Knicks still need to add in 5 million worth of guys.
Trier is a KD buddy - seems unlikely.
Future picks have no $ assigned to them, so it has to be players.

But with Frank going to the Pels instead of his #25 replacement:

RJ+Knox+Frank+ year end filler + future picks (mavs picks) - deal matches up.

Again, I might be totally misunderstanding Frank freeing up space.

OR

Frank is traded to free up space for KD & ? and Knicks will put:

RJ/Knox/DSJr + picks into a trade for AD.

Which leads to:

PG: Kyrie/?
SG: Trier/Dotson
SF: Durant/?
PF: ?/?
C: Mitch/DJ
Maybe #26 pick.

See, this is why I'm still hesitant on an AD trade

I know our current core isn't very good, but imo they'd look better being a year older and being role players instead of core pieces, but if we trade them all for AD we'd have a fantastic starting 5, probably the best in the league, but no depth at all. Which could be a problem when 2 of our big 3 have injury histories, and the other is 30

Yes, you risk a situation like last year in LA, but I think it's different cause presumably you're bringing in a 2nd star instead of just 1 and hoping the kids play up to par (and I hope Perry is better at roster construction than Magic), plus you keep the 3rd pick which gives you more sustainability in the long term

I get trading for AD, I'm just on the fence on it

anthony davis being only 26 is pretty clutch though

[King of Canada]

Read on Twitter

Knicks are doing this to force NOL’s hand a little. They know if NY doesn’t pick Barrett they need to deal with LA if they did want him.

[the_antz_nest]

Trade back or out.
3 to Washington for Beal and 9, hope reddish falls....
3 to Toronto for Siakim...

.... I’ve been playing too much 2K.... the draft can’t come quick enough...

[thebuzzardman]

Spoiler:

Not disagreeing, and again, I'm only "ok" at getting this stuff sometimes, but I was under the impression the only way to get AD as as 3rd guy was after the draft. So, the Knicks would have some more cap space, but still have the issue of having to send matching dollars within 125% of AD's salary.

AD is 25 million per. How does it work again - ah, here it is:



Since I"m being a little slow here, but if they can't acquire more than 125% of what they trade away, Knicks have to sent out atleast 21 million in outgoing contracts, right?

RJ - 7 million, Knox 7 million, Frank Replacement guy - 1.5 million. Let's say 16 million. Knicks still need to add in 5 million worth of guys.
Trier is a KD buddy - seems unlikely.
Future picks have no $ assigned to them, so it has to be players.

But with Frank going to the Pels instead of his #25 replacement:

RJ+Knox+Frank+ year end filler + future picks (mavs picks) - deal matches up.

Again, I might be totally misunderstanding Frank freeing up space.

OR

Frank is traded to free up space for KD & ? and Knicks will put:

RJ/Knox/DSJr + picks into a trade for AD.

Which leads to:

PG: Kyrie/?
SG: Trier/Dotson
SF: Durant/?
PF: ?/?
C: Mitch/DJ
Maybe #26 pick.

See, this is why I'm still hesitant on an AD trade

I know our current core isn't very good, but imo they'd look better being a year older and being role players instead of core pieces, but if we trade them all for AD we'd have a fantastic starting 5, probably the best in the league, but no depth at all. Which could be a problem when 2 of our big 3 have injury histories, and the other is 30

Yes, you risk a situation like last year in LA, but I think it's different cause presumably you're bringing in a 2nd star instead of just 1 and hoping the kids play up to par (and I hope Perry is better at roster construction than Magic), plus you keep the 3rd pick which gives you more sustainability in the long term

I get trading for AD, I'm just on the fence on it

Buzzardman - I don't think the 125% rule matters when you have cap space

K-Dot - I agree and would be jhsut as happy (maybe happier) to hang onto the youth.

You are right - it doesn't.
But the Knicks might be over making the trade AFTER signing KD & Kyrie.

Knicks would have KD & Kyrie on the books, plus AD coming in at 25 million - this has to be close to 90 million - I know accuracy to the half million matter's here, but I'll leave that to someone else
KD 38 million
Kyrie - 25 million
AD 25 million
That's 88 Million out of a 108 million projected cap

It's not a given it goes that high. I think it's 101 million right now.
Anyway, others have done the cap holds, cost of Trier, Dotson, Mitch - who might be left (hopefully) and I thought AD always put the Knicks over the cap.

Anyway, the cap going up to 108 may make all the difference.

[KnixinSix]

Read on Twitter

Knicks are doing this to force NOL’s hand a little. They know if NY doesn’t pick Barrett they need to deal with LA if they did want him.

Right the Knicks message to the Pels could be: If Barrett is your top prize at 3 you need to commit to a deal with us BEFORE the draft.

[KnixinSix]

Spoiler:

Not disagreeing, and again, I'm only "ok" at getting this stuff sometimes, but I was under the impression the only way to get AD as as 3rd guy was after the draft. So, the Knicks would have some more cap space, but still have the issue of having to send matching dollars within 125% of AD's salary.

AD is 25 million per. How does it work again - ah, here it is:



Since I"m being a little slow here, but if they can't acquire more than 125% of what they trade away, Knicks have to sent out atleast 21 million in outgoing contracts, right?

RJ - 7 million, Knox 7 million, Frank Replacement guy - 1.5 million. Let's say 16 million. Knicks still need to add in 5 million worth of guys.
Trier is a KD buddy - seems unlikely.
Future picks have no $ assigned to them, so it has to be players.

But with Frank going to the Pels instead of his #25 replacement:

RJ+Knox+Frank+ year end filler + future picks (mavs picks) - deal matches up.

Again, I might be totally misunderstanding Frank freeing up space.

OR

Frank is traded to free up space for KD & ? and Knicks will put:

RJ/Knox/DSJr + picks into a trade for AD.

Which leads to:

PG: Kyrie/?
SG: Trier/Dotson
SF: Durant/?
PF: ?/?
C: Mitch/DJ
Maybe #26 pick.

See, this is why I'm still hesitant on an AD trade

I know our current core isn't very good, but imo they'd look better being a year older and being role players instead of core pieces, but if we trade them all for AD we'd have a fantastic starting 5, probably the best in the league, but no depth at all. Which could be a problem when 2 of our big 3 have injury histories, and the other is 30

Yes, you risk a situation like last year in LA, but I think it's different cause presumably you're bringing in a 2nd star instead of just 1 and hoping the kids play up to par (and I hope Perry is better at roster construction than Magic), plus you keep the 3rd pick which gives you more sustainability in the long term

I get trading for AD, I'm just on the fence on it

anthony davis being only 26 is pretty clutch though

At that age he is one of the best commodities in the entire NBA. Right on the cusp of the top prime years for an athlete.

[awy]

no on cam. trade down if you must or let lakers.

[KnixinSix]

Spoiler:

Not disagreeing, and again, I'm only "ok" at getting this stuff sometimes, but I was under the impression the only way to get AD as as 3rd guy was after the draft. So, the Knicks would have some more cap space, but still have the issue of having to send matching dollars within 125% of AD's salary.

AD is 25 million per. How does it work again - ah, here it is:



Since I"m being a little slow here, but if they can't acquire more than 125% of what they trade away, Knicks have to sent out atleast 21 million in outgoing contracts, right?

RJ - 7 million, Knox 7 million, Frank Replacement guy - 1.5 million. Let's say 16 million. Knicks still need to add in 5 million worth of guys.
Trier is a KD buddy - seems unlikely.
Future picks have no $ assigned to them, so it has to be players.

But with Frank going to the Pels instead of his #25 replacement:

RJ+Knox+Frank+ year end filler + future picks (mavs picks) - deal matches up.

Again, I might be totally misunderstanding Frank freeing up space.

OR

Frank is traded to free up space for KD & ? and Knicks will put:

RJ/Knox/DSJr + picks into a trade for AD.

Which leads to:

PG: Kyrie/?
SG: Trier/Dotson
SF: Durant/?
PF: ?/?
C: Mitch/DJ
Maybe #26 pick.

See, this is why I'm still hesitant on an AD trade

I know our current core isn't very good, but imo they'd look better being a year older and being role players instead of core pieces, but if we trade them all for AD we'd have a fantastic starting 5, probably the best in the league, but no depth at all. Which could be a problem when 2 of our big 3 have injury histories, and the other is 30

Yes, you risk a situation like last year in LA, but I think it's different cause presumably you're bringing in a 2nd star instead of just 1 and hoping the kids play up to par (and I hope Perry is better at roster construction than Magic), plus you keep the 3rd pick which gives you more sustainability in the long term

I get trading for AD, I'm just on the fence on it

Exactly the same spot I'm in and for the same reasons.

And I'll say it again - for the different ways the Knicks can go, and what may or may not happen with FA's - most interesting Knicks off season ever. Initially I said "one of", but the more I think about it, outside the hoopla around LeBron in 2010, which felt more pipe dream like, even at the time, it's this. And I'll give this off season the nod, as there is more reality to it, in that even if FA is a bust, then there are very interesting alternatives in terms of taking on salary for assets etc.

Also, there is added drama in that it seems like this FO is set on a sober path of team building/roster construction, but as fans we aren't sure, so there's also the element of "What will they do, have the Knicks really turned the corner to respectable and smart basketball operations?"

Most cautiously optimistic yet cynically scared I've ever been as a Knick fan

At this point with the avalanche of clues KD not coming would be like Lebron last minute not deciding to go to the Lakers last year. Everyone basically knew it was a done deal and anything you heard contrary was just window dressing. There were so many clues he was going there and groundwork laid just like KD with NY.

The bigger questions are who is the 2nd max and are they going to get AD too?

[bleedblue3303]

I wasn’t sure about Davis till I saw a stat that changes my mind. Davis has the 3rd highest Per in the history of the NBA. He is that good. I’m starting to think u trade the farm for him no matter what


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[moocow007]

I wasn’t sure about Davis till I saw a stat that changes my mind. Davis has the 3rd highest Per in the history of the NBA. He is that good. I’m starting to think u trade the farm for him no matter what


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

When he's healthy and on Davis is without doubt a top 5 player. I think you put him in a situation he's actually wanting to be in and happy about hell absolutely beast.

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