2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 2)

[aggo]

Cole as a prospect worries me.

I find it hard to differentiate his skills in college to that of guys like Bayless, Randy Foye, and even Trey Burke. I definitely think he can be a starter for a few years, but he's going to end up playing backup minutes a lot sooner than people think imo. The shooting, shot selection, and uninspiring athleticism at a position that requires a high level of efficiency just screams to me that hes going to be a below average starter in the league.

I definitely think if he can pick up his shooting efficiency he can have a decently long career. but "smaller" pgs that have have been recently successful in the NBA have been guys with elite speed (think fox), or elite ability to get to the rim and finish (think Kyle lowry). Lowry also is a borderline elite defender at his position. point being, when I look at Cole I don't think he possesses that special quality or trait about him where you can say "he can develop into XXX because XXX". Fox always had his speed. Lowry always had the strength and ability to hang and bang. Cole....????




IMO Halliburton imo is still the best player in the draft.


on wiseman- please stop, guys. hes a rim runner and you do not draft rim runners that aren't elite defenders and/or project to be scorers in the top of the draft. hes derrick favors 2.0. wow he has a TS of 66%. who the **** cares when you put up 10ppg?

can he handle the ball?
is he an elite defender?
can his shooting project to the 3pt line?
has he shown any ability to project any of the 3 mentioned?

nope
nope
nope
nope

[RHODEY]

Cole as a prospect worries me.

I find it hard to differentiate his skills in college to that of guys like Bayless, Randy Foye, and even Trey Burke. I definitely think he can be a starter for a few years, but he's going to end up playing backup minutes a lot sooner than people think imo. The shooting, shot selection, and uninspiring athleticism at a position that requires a high level of efficiency just screams to me that hes going to be a below average starter in the league.

I definitely think if he can pick up his shooting efficiency he can have a decently long career. but "smaller" pgs that have have been recently successful in the NBA have been guys with elite speed (think fox), or elite ability to get to the rim and finish (think Kyle lowry). Lowry also is a borderline elite defender at his position. point being, when I look at Cole I don't think he possesses that special quality or trait about him where you can say "he can develop into XXX because XXX". Fox always had his speed. Lowry always had the strength and ability to hang and bang. Cole....????




IMO Halliburton imo is still the best player in the draft.


on wiseman- please stop, guys. hes a rim runner and you do not draft rim runners that aren't elite defenders and/or project to be scorers in the top of the draft. hes derrick favors 2.0. wow he has a TS of 66%. who the **** cares when you put up 10ppg?

can he handle the ball?
is he an elite defender?
can his shooting project to the 3pt line?
has he shown any ability to project any of the 3 mentioned?

nope
nope
nope
nope

I want Burton too.

[moocow007]

Can someone proved to me that Wiseman will be a generational talent, who's all around game: defense, inside and outside shooting will translate. Wiseman's outside shot is suspect and requires work and I'm not sure if Mitchell Robinson is not a better defender already.

Even if we're #1, trading it will not be a bad idea in this particular draft if it gets us #4 or 5. LaMelo while a great passer and dribbler (think Ricky Rubio), it's not a generational talent either.

We should continue to develop Mitch.

Personally, with a #1, I would look at getting another team's assets: Sacramento, Hornets and Kings can all use a Center.

he’s not generational if Embiid, Towns and Ayton are part of his generation.

I was following Towns closely and a huge fan of his but he did not look this good as he is the NBA right now coming out of college. Meanwhile Embiid and Ayton were advanced in terms of post skills but for Wiseman I like how he stacks up in the post given his mobility.

I think what happened with Wiseman is that the bigs he tried to pattern his game after, at least based on his interviews in HS were bigs like KG, AD and Giannis. What I would guess is that his mindset was that he had to be a unicorn in order to be a star in this league. On the flip side however I think he ended up to be too strong physically to be one if you know what I mean.

Am hoping that Wiseman could have a sit-down with someone like Ewing to explain to him that the more throwback bigs can still have a place to be dominant in this league. Wiseman is obviously a student of the game and one that takes criticisms positively and work on his weaknesses.

That is actually very true.

As far as Wiseman goes. I actually think he's got plenty of potential. He's big, athletic and strong. He's got extremely quick feet for a guy his size. He actually has shown the ability to put the ball on the floor and shoot. I have no concerns about his physical tools (they are unequivocaly unbelievable) and he actually has shown glimpses of unicorn like basketball skills. He's also a very smart kid so it's not like it'll be hard to teach him things. My concern is how much of winning and doing what it takes to live up to everything else about him is he really committed to and have a mindset for. IF he has the winner mentality absolutely he can be the best player in this draft and not even close. He has the package to be a KG type player IF the "Mamba Mentality" is there. And yep he can be an Embiid level player. That was what his "one and done" year at Memphis was supposed to show...whether his focus and intensity matched everything else that potentially makes him great.

[bleedblue3303]

If we land the number 1 pick and take wiseman. Would u trade RJ for a top pick if it got us Lamelo?


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[robillionaire]

If we land the number 1 pick and take wiseman. Would u trade RJ for a top pick if it got us Lamelo?


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No.

I'd just draft lamelo and keep rj

[DaGawd]

Haven't been keeping up with the prospects at all this year.. Wondering why Theo Maledon is projected to go so low now on tankathon? Wasn't he a projected to 10 pick before hand?

[spree8]

I don't know about that since he wasn't that high on T.Young or L.Doncic to be as good as they are.

This is a joke, right? I said COUNTLESS times he was the best SG prospect since Roy, if not Wade. Even with my major defensive concerns for Trae (which were 100% spot on), I still ended up with him in my second tier. I probably did undervalue Trae's passing and shooting, but I still said he was damn good, if not elite, in both.

This is from the Luka scouting report I sent on 6/25/2018 to someone with the Wolves.

No i wasn't joking. I didn't say you hated them but i did say you weren't as high on them as some of us were and i think you just admitted that with how you underestimated T.Young's passing and shooting. I also posted how i thought people were underestimating JJJ and you replied to my post about why you weren't as high on him as i was. Again, i'm not saying you hated him but just weren't as high on him as some others were and what's the big deal anyway? It's not like anyone knows what any of these kids will be at the next level which is why there's lottery busts every single year in the NBA. Not even GM's and scouts that do this for a living can always get it right.

TheScout is KT? If so, yea he was high as hell on Luka... but he told me Trae would be a backup pg in the NBA lol. And like me, he thought Isaac was a bum 100% too. Nobody is perfect (shyt, I wanted Okafor over Towns)... if you scroll thru history, I’m sure every expert or fan ends up being 50/50 on their picks when it’s all said n done. Truth is nobody really knows what these kids will turn into, that’s why experts who get paid millions with professional scouting teams around them select guys like Olowokandi, Kwame, and Bennett #1.

[Worst_to_First]

If we land the number 1 pick and take wiseman. Would u trade RJ for a top pick if it got us Lamelo?


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I’d keep RJ and give him more ball handling duties. He and Wiseman are already good friends and I think those two would make a solid duo. Gatorade players of the year unite.

[moocow007]

If we land the number 1 pick and take wiseman. Would u trade RJ for a top pick if it got us Lamelo?


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I’d keep RJ and give him more ball handling duties. He and Wiseman are already good friends and I think those two would make a solid duo. Gatorade players of the year unite.

If that's true (didn't know it was) then yeah it probably would be a good idea to keep RJ with Wiseman. RJ has that type of mentality that you want Wiseman to have. Maybe a little bit of healthy mano-a-mano competition between the 2 young guys would be the best thing for a guy like Wiseman.

[moocow007]

Haven't been keeping up with the prospects at all this year.. Wondering why Theo Maledon is projected to go so low now on tankathon? Wasn't he a projected to 10 pick before hand?

I would imagine that it's partly due to the sheer number of 'guards that can play the point' in this draft. Here's a run down of guys that are projected as possible lottery picks that either are sure bet PG's or that can play the point (basically talking about half the lottery):

LaMelo Ball
Tyrese Haliburton
Cole Anthony
RJ Hampton
Killian Hayes
Nico Mannion
Tyrese Maxey
Tre Jones

Maldeon, based on the clips I've seen, isn't really a true NBA PG IMO. He's kinda a combo type guard. Nothing necessarily wrong with that and he has very good quickness and athleticism. But I'm not sure that he does anything exceptionally well from an NBA projection POV. At 6'3" give or take there's only so much you can do in the NBA if you can't shoot or run an offense. Most of the guys on the list have parts of their game that are potentially exceptional in the NBA and/or have the type of upside that attract attention.

[newyorker4ever]

This is a joke, right? I said COUNTLESS times he was the best SG prospect since Roy, if not Wade. Even with my major defensive concerns for Trae (which were 100% spot on), I still ended up with him in my second tier. I probably did undervalue Trae's passing and shooting, but I still said he was damn good, if not elite, in both.

This is from the Luka scouting report I sent on 6/25/2018 to someone with the Wolves.

No i wasn't joking. I didn't say you hated them but i did say you weren't as high on them as some of us were and i think you just admitted that with how you underestimated T.Young's passing and shooting. I also posted how i thought people were underestimating JJJ and you replied to my post about why you weren't as high on him as i was. Again, i'm not saying you hated him but just weren't as high on him as some others were and what's the big deal anyway? It's not like anyone knows what any of these kids will be at the next level which is why there's lottery busts every single year in the NBA. Not even GM's and scouts that do this for a living can always get it right.

TheScout is KT? If so, yea he was high as hell on Luka... but he told me Trae would be a backup pg in the NBA lol. And like me, he thought Isaac was a bum 100% too. Nobody is perfect (shyt, I wanted Okafor over Towns)... if you scroll thru history, I’m sure every expert or fan ends up being 50/50 on their picks when it’s all said n done. Truth is nobody really knows what these kids will turn into, that’s why experts who get paid millions with professional scouting teams around them select guys like Olowokandi, Kwame, and Bennett #1.

Yep and many were down on Ja Morant as well and that kids a stud. That's why anytime i say draft experts i always put it in quotes "Draft Experts" cause the "Experts" are wrong as much as the fans are. There's no way to predict correctly on how any of these kids will make the transition from college to the NBA because the biggest part of making that transition is if these kids have what it takes mentally cause they all have talent. We can all watch the games and watch tape and read what the "Draft Experts" say but there's no way to tell how strong they are mentally.

Even with that i still wasn't trying to piss anyone off but it's not my fault if people don't wanna hear the truth.

[spree8]

No i wasn't joking. I didn't say you hated them but i did say you weren't as high on them as some of us were and i think you just admitted that with how you underestimated T.Young's passing and shooting. I also posted how i thought people were underestimating JJJ and you replied to my post about why you weren't as high on him as i was. Again, i'm not saying you hated him but just weren't as high on him as some others were and what's the big deal anyway? It's not like anyone knows what any of these kids will be at the next level which is why there's lottery busts every single year in the NBA. Not even GM's and scouts that do this for a living can always get it right.

TheScout is KT? If so, yea he was high as hell on Luka... but he told me Trae would be a backup pg in the NBA lol. And like me, he thought Isaac was a bum 100% too. Nobody is perfect (shyt, I wanted Okafor over Towns)... if you scroll thru history, I’m sure every expert or fan ends up being 50/50 on their picks when it’s all said n done. Truth is nobody really knows what these kids will turn into, that’s why experts who get paid millions with professional scouting teams around them select guys like Olowokandi, Kwame, and Bennett #1.

Yep and many were down on Ja Morant as well and that kids a stud. That's why anytime i say draft experts i always put it in quotes "Draft Experts" cause the "Experts" are wrong as much as the fans are. There's no way to predict correctly on how any of these kids will make the transition from college to the NBA because the biggest part of making that transition is if these kids have what it takes mentally cause they all have talent. We can all watch the games and watch tape and read what the "Draft Experts" say but there's no way to tell how strong they are mentally.

Even with that i still wasn't trying to piss anyone off but it's not my fault if people don't wanna hear the truth.

Absolutely. The mental part is huge. Another aspect you really can’t account for is the organization they’re drafted to. Some guys get stuck on crap teams who can’t develop players for squat (like us), and guys that don’t get the opportunity because they’re stuck playing behind a logjam, have crappy coaching (also kinda like us), they lose confidence, etc. There’s so many variables to take into account after they’re drafted... it’s almost impossible to predict.

[BLACKFEET 2010]

Lamelo leaves his team without a peep to his teammates...

Are these dudes that tone deaf? Doesn’t he or his team know how this makes him look? His draft value swings with his character as much as anything; that and his ability to be a teammate.

I hope they (his people) come out with a statement speaking to this.

[E-Balla]

Lamelo leaves his team without a peep to his teammates...

Are these dudes that tone deaf? Doesn’t he or his team know how this makes him look? His draft value swings with his character as much as anything; that and his ability to be a teammate.

I hope they (his people) come out with a statement speaking to this.

I don't trust the reports mainly because it was announced he was leaving the team like 2 weeks ago when he got hurt.

[BLACKFEET 2010]

Lamelo leaves his team without a peep to his teammates...

Are these dudes that tone deaf? Doesn’t he or his team know how this makes him look? His draft value swings with his character as much as anything; that and his ability to be a teammate.

I hope they (his people) come out with a statement speaking to this.

I don't trust the reports mainly because it was announced he was leaving the team like 2 weeks ago when he got hurt.

Ok so it’s some okiedoke going on here.
International basketball is so damn scandalous lol.

[moocow007]

Lamelo leaves his team without a peep to his teammates...

Are these dudes that tone deaf? Doesn’t he or his team know how this makes him look? His draft value swings with his character as much as anything; that and his ability to be a teammate.

I hope they (his people) come out with a statement speaking to this.

I don't trust the reports mainly because it was announced he was leaving the team like 2 weeks ago when he got hurt.

Ok so it’s some okiedoke going on here.
International basketball is so damn scandalous lol.

My guess is also that part of the "agreement" Ball had with the Hawks is that he can pretty much come and go when he wants so I don't think that anyone was surprised about it. Getting Ball to play for them brought them crowds and a whole lot of revenue. It's not what you want to see but I think that's what Ball and his collective was looking for. Ball is a big name and an attraction.

[RandlesCornrows]

What’s your thoughts on Obi Toppin? Looks like a solid 4, I see a lot of Amare in him. He can shoot, has solid footwork, strong, has a nice post game.

[RandlesCornrows]

Jesus LaMelo Ball has the finesse like Kyrie

[moocow007]

What’s your thoughts on Obi Toppin? Looks like a solid 4, I see a lot of Amare in him. He can shoot, has solid footwork, strong, has a nice post game.

He doesn't have Amare's athleticism or physical strength at the same age. Amare was a monster physically even when he was just a junior in HS in FL. By the time the HS senior circuit started, Amare was basically a man among boys (and that was against the other HS elites). Same when he made his entry in the NBA (Amare was one of the most intimidating physical specimens as a rookie). I've been a follower of the HS showcase circuits for some time and I still remember Amare as the most impressive physical player I've ever seen at a showcase game.

Toppin does have nice length, he has solid verticals, he's aggressive and has a good feel for where he needs to be (especially on the offensive end). He definitely can be looked at as a floor spacer type that can do a little bit of damage if you try to close him out on the perimeter. This is what you want from your bigs. But he's not near Amare level in terms of athleticism, explosiveness and sheer physical dominance.

His shooting? You know, yes, the percentages are great in college but he has a slow and low release. I think it'll be fine as a role playing stretch 4 but not if the plan is to feature him. In other words not for someone that will be looking to take 5-6 3's a game in the NBA...more like 2-3 3's per game.

I think he can do real well on a team where there is a defined system and where players who do what they are supposed to do are rewarded with minutes and touches. Toronto, San Antonio, Dallas, Indy, etc. On a team like the Knicks? Yeah, no. He may be able to get some shots and I'm sure he'll get a lot of positive fan feedback but he's not a big enough needle mover for a team that is bottom of the barrel to use a top lottery pick on...if that's what you were thinking (which I'm assuming you are thinking since you're discussing this on the Knicks board).

His upside is a high end role player IMO, not a star. A Thaddeus Young level role player (the level, not exactly the player).

[E-Balla]

What’s your thoughts on Obi Toppin? Looks like a solid 4, I see a lot of Amare in him. He can shoot, has solid footwork, strong, has a nice post game.

He doesn't have Amare's athleticism or physical strength at the same age. Amare was a monster physically even when he was just a junior in HS in FL. By the time the HS senior circuit started, Amare was basically a man among boys (and that was against the other HS elites). Same when he made his entry in the NBA (Amare was one of the most intimidating physical specimens as a rookie). I've been a follower of the HS showcase circuits for some time and I still remember Amare as the most impressive physical player I've ever seen at a showcase game.

Toppin does have nice length, he has solid verticals, he's aggressive and has a good feel for where he needs to be (especially on the offensive end). He definitely can be looked at as a floor spacer type that can do a little bit of damage if you try to close him out on the perimeter. This is what you want from your bigs. But he's not near Amare level in terms of athleticism, explosiveness and sheer physical dominance.

His shooting? You know, yes, the percentages are great in college but he has a slow and low release. I think it'll be fine as a role playing stretch 4 but not if the plan is to feature him. In other words not for someone that will be looking to take 5-6 3's a game in the NBA...more like 2-3 3's per game.

I think he can do real well on a team where there is a defined system and where players who do what they are supposed to do are rewarded with minutes and touches. Toronto, San Antonio, Dallas, Indy, etc. On a team like the Knicks? Yeah, no. He may be able to get some shots and I'm sure he'll get a lot of positive fan feedback but he's not a big enough needle mover for a team that is bottom of the barrel to use a top lottery pick on...if that's what you were thinking.

His upside is a high end role player IMO, not a star.

Amare was 19 as a HS senior though. He was older than most people he played against. Still a manlet though.