Knicks - Cavs PG

[Capn'O]

I still have no idea how they looked at this team and thought "Lets keep Randle around and bring back Payton". That still amazes me. This is the 3rd year in a row they have played together and we still didnt figure out its an awful combination especially on this roster.

Just hope they grow some balls and go with the younger lineup for most of the minutes.

IMO, they haven't found the right deal for Julius yet. But why they brought Payton back is beyond me. That is nuts.

Before I was being open-minded about it, but now I want Perry booted out of this FO. Payton again? Really? FOH!

He seems to have an ego about "his" guys that gets in the way of an otherwise good mind.

[DOT]

I still have no idea how they looked at this team and thought "Lets keep Randle around and bring back Payton". That still amazes me. This is the 3rd year in a row they have played together and we still didnt figure out its an awful combination especially on this roster.

Just hope they grow some balls and go with the younger lineup for most of the minutes.

If I were a reporter, I would ask Perry or Rose how, in the modern NBA where shooting is paramount, they saw Randle and Payton fitting on a team built around RJ and Mitch.

Of course, I would then get banned by Dolan for asking that question and be asked to cover the Nets, after which I'd just quit my job and decide to live the rest of my days as a beekeeper.

Considering this team is actually trying to be built around Randle and Payton, the question you should be asking is, why haven't you traded RJ and Mitch when they're such poor fits?

[cgf]

So...the kids played well again. Fact. They beat the snot out of that scrub lineup. That means THEY PLAYED WELL AND DID WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO!!! Some of you are just too damn bitter.

That said....I would not care who starts... as long as the rotations we saw last night in the 4th continue to play together. Not spot minutes either. They may grow faster and develop more against bench units for a little while. As they build chemistry.

Thibs showed a lot more willingness to let the kids learn from their mistakes and play together than any coach we have ever had under Dolan.

I get your point but who starts really matters.. we can’t keep letting the starters dig these huge holes that we have to come back from because they can’t shoot for ****

Why not? It's not like we want to be winning games this season

Let the starters secure the tanking-win, then send the kids out there to have fun. At least for the first part of the season; if the kids look great 10-15 games into the regular season then we can re-assess things & start mixing the kids into the starting lineup.

[Chanel Bomber]

I still have no idea how they looked at this team and thought "Lets keep Randle around and bring back Payton". That still amazes me. This is the 3rd year in a row they have played together and we still didnt figure out its an awful combination especially on this roster.

Just hope they grow some balls and go with the younger lineup for most of the minutes.

If I were a reporter, I would ask Perry or Rose how, in the modern NBA where shooting is paramount, they saw Randle and Payton fitting on a team built around RJ and Mitch.

Of course, I would then get banned by Dolan for asking that question and be asked to cover the Nets, after which I'd just quit my job and decide to live the rest of my days as a beekeeper.

Considering this team is actually trying to be built around Randle and Payton, the question you should be asking is, why haven't you traded RJ and Mitch when they're such poor fits?

You're right.

[DaGawd]

So...the kids played well again. Fact. They beat the snot out of that scrub lineup. That means THEY PLAYED WELL AND DID WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO!!! Some of you are just too damn bitter.

That said....I would not care who starts... as long as the rotations we saw last night in the 4th continue to play together. Not spot minutes either. They may grow faster and develop more against bench units for a little while. As they build chemistry.

Thibs showed a lot more willingness to let the kids learn from their mistakes and play together than any coach we have ever had under Dolan.

I get your point but who starts really matters.. we can’t keep letting the starters dig these huge holes that we have to come back from because they can’t shoot for ****

Why not? It's not like we want to be winning games this season

Let the starters secure the tanking-win, then send the kids out there to have fun. At least for the first part of the season; if the kids look great 10-15 games into the regular season then we can re-assess things & start mixing the kids into the starting lineup.

I’m not here for no false tank..if we lose let it be because the kids weren’t good enough.. not because the vets suck.. which we already know. We have to see how good these kids can really be together before we go tanking hoping for another player to save us while we completely disregard the development of the youth we already have

[Deeeez Knicks]

I still have no idea how they looked at this team and thought "Lets keep Randle around and bring back Payton". That still amazes me. This is the 3rd year in a row they have played together and we still didnt figure out its an awful combination especially on this roster.

Just hope they grow some balls and go with the younger lineup for most of the minutes.

IMO, they haven't found the right deal for Julius yet. But why they brought Payton back is beyond me. That is nuts.

The right deal for me would just be just to get him off the roster and move on as soon as we drafted Obi. I think they may be overestimating his value and impact. There just doesn't seem like a high demand for Randle's type of game and will be tough to make salary's work. I think we blew our chance in the offseason.

Randle can still be useful on the right team in the right role and no doubt can put up numbers. Its just not here as we can all see.

[jvsimonetti0514]

a couple things I noticed from last night. There's two things that Quickley does that our other guards just don't do. First thing is pretty obvious that he's a threat to shoot, or at least teams are afraid he can shoot, so that forces them to over on the screens. None of the guards you have to do that for. Another thing I noticed is when a pick is set for him, he actually attacks the screen creating separation from him and his man. Both Frank and DSJ take that screen slowly and survey what's going on instead of trying to get downhill. Those two things combined actually forces the defense to rotate and creates open looks. Let's hope he can do the same thing against real rotation guys and not just back benchers.

RJ and Obi seem to be the only two that really understand how the modern NBA is supposed to be played. When they drive and can't get to the hoop they're looking for guys cross court standing behind the arc. If Bullock could hit a shot last night, RJ probably would have had like 5 assists. Another indictment on our PG trio cuz usually when they drive they only seem to find the roll man and never a shooter outside. We should have probably cut Bullock and kept Dot cuz I think Reggie is washed. I think Obi will eventually be able to stretch the floor but he looks like an inside out type of big that needs to get a couple shots inside before you start letting him bomb away from behind the arc. Also last night was his best defensive performance of the first three games.

Knox hasn't had any motor issues yet in the preseason. If he can bring effort every night that will be a huge step forward but he still needs to hit shots. When he can be a threat to shoot it makes the offense look so much better.

Also who would have guessed that DSJ is our best guard defensive play maker. It's weird cuz his offensive bbiq is so bad but he plays passing lanes so well on defense. It's just so bizarre that he can't put two and two together.

[Capn'O]

I still have no idea how they looked at this team and thought "Lets keep Randle around and bring back Payton". That still amazes me. This is the 3rd year in a row they have played together and we still didnt figure out its an awful combination especially on this roster.

Just hope they grow some balls and go with the younger lineup for most of the minutes.

IMO, they haven't found the right deal for Julius yet. But why they brought Payton back is beyond me. That is nuts.

The right deal for me would just be just to get him off the roster and move on as soon as we drafted Obi. I think they may be overestimating his value and impact. There just doesn't seem like a high demand for Randle's type of game and will be tough to make salary's work. I think we blew our chance in the offseason.

Randle can still be useful on the right team in the right role and no doubt can put up numbers. Its just not here as we can all see.

I agree in principle. It's a lot of money to just eat though.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I still have no idea how they looked at this team and thought "Lets keep Randle around and bring back Payton". That still amazes me. This is the 3rd year in a row they have played together and we still didnt figure out its an awful combination especially on this roster.

Just hope they grow some balls and go with the younger lineup for most of the minutes.

If I were a reporter, I would ask Perry or Rose how, in the modern NBA where shooting is paramount, they saw Randle and Payton fitting on a team built around RJ and Mitch.

Of course, I would then get banned by Dolan for asking that question and be asked to cover the Nets, after which I'd just quit my job and decide to live the rest of my days as a beekeeper.

Have those guys even taken any questions in awhile or made any media appearances recently? Yea, they would kick you out of the zoom call real quick

[Clyde_Style]

IMO, they haven't found the right deal for Julius yet. But why they brought Payton back is beyond me. That is nuts.

The right deal for me would just be just to get him off the roster and move on as soon as we drafted Obi. I think they may be overestimating his value and impact. There just doesn't seem like a high demand for Randle's type of game and will be tough to make salary's work. I think we blew our chance in the offseason.

Randle can still be useful on the right team in the right role and no doubt can put up numbers. Its just not here as we can all see.

I agree in principle. It's a lot of money to just eat though.

It may be no teams are interested in Randle. In which case, he becomes a dead weight pulling this team down.

At the very least, have him come off the bench for now until the FO decides what to do about him. If he keeps starting, something is wrong with Thibs and this FO. I do not for a frigging second buy the argument he needs to start to keep up his trade value. Bullocks! The league knows exactly who Randle is and no amount of showcasing is going to change their perceptions.

Randle is dead weight. The sooner this club moves on from him and Payton the sooner it starts to grow and thrive.

[Deeeez Knicks]

IMO, they haven't found the right deal for Julius yet. But why they brought Payton back is beyond me. That is nuts.

The right deal for me would just be just to get him off the roster and move on as soon as we drafted Obi. I think they may be overestimating his value and impact. There just doesn't seem like a high demand for Randle's type of game and will be tough to make salary's work. I think we blew our chance in the offseason.

Randle can still be useful on the right team in the right role and no doubt can put up numbers. Its just not here as we can all see.

I agree in principle. It's a lot of money to just eat though.

I dont think they would cut him...But I do think there were opportunities and our price is too high or they were not looking hard enough...or maybe just wanted to keep him. Oh well.

[Capn'O]

The right deal for me would just be just to get him off the roster and move on as soon as we drafted Obi. I think they may be overestimating his value and impact. There just doesn't seem like a high demand for Randle's type of game and will be tough to make salary's work. I think we blew our chance in the offseason.

Randle can still be useful on the right team in the right role and no doubt can put up numbers. Its just not here as we can all see.

I agree in principle. It's a lot of money to just eat though.

I dont think they would cut him...But I do think there were opportunities and our price is too high or they were not looking hard enough...or maybe just wanted to keep him. Oh well.

I would agree with that.

Randle and Rivers for Hardaway and WCS. Who says no?

[cgf]

I get your point but who starts really matters.. we can’t keep letting the starters dig these huge holes that we have to come back from because they can’t shoot for ****

Why not? It's not like we want to be winning games this season

Let the starters secure the tanking-win, then send the kids out there to have fun. At least for the first part of the season; if the kids look great 10-15 games into the regular season then we can re-assess things & start mixing the kids into the starting lineup.

I’m not hear for no tank false.. if we lose let it be because the kids weren’t good enough.. not because the vets suck.. which we already know

I don't think there's a substantial difference between playing 20-22 minutes & 28-30 minutes a night for a lot of our kids' at this stage in their development...at least not in the short term, since RJ is the only one who is definitely ready for a regular 28-30 min; the rest still need to prove that they can not suck against regular-season NBA bench players. And I think the difference is made even less significant if the kids are able to find success against opposing benches in those 20-22 minutes; as opposed to getting frustrated from being wailed on by the LeBron's of the world for 28-30 min.

So as long as the kids are being put in a position to succeed for a good 20 (at least) every night; then I couldn't care less about anything that happens during the rest of the game (with the exception of how RJ looks). At least for the first 10ish games of the regular season. If we reach that point and the kid-unit has been doing to NBA benches in the regular season what they did to Cleveland's 3rd stringers last night; then I'll be all in favor of challenging them more.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Randle is a bench 4/5... primarily a 5 IMO. That's his role. Mitch and Noel both struggle with fouls so...there is a little room to play Randle at the 5...until you get rid of him. His is a roadblock in the paint on offense for everyone else. Low BBIQ as well. Terrible signing at the time and this is why. This team was in no position to gamble on him but...they had time to do so basically. Not to mention 3 different HCs since the deal was made. Just a poor fit for what we need now. Not a total bum but...we don't need him.

I don't see any complicated issues figuring out what's wrong with the team and how to fix it. Thibs needs to just apply logic to this mess and he should be able to fit a halfway decent rotation together. The roster needs some trimming though...for sure. In the meantime... Thibs needs the balls to make adjustments based on prioritizing the kids development. Not showcasing the vets for value.

[K_ick_God]

Shows you how shooting is overrated in the way a player looks at first at least, Quick is shooting 29, 14%. Wait till some shots start dropping.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I agree in principle. It's a lot of money to just eat though.

I dont think they would cut him...But I do think there were opportunities and our price is too high or they were not looking hard enough...or maybe just wanted to keep him. Oh well.

I would agree with that.

Randle and Rivers for Hardaway and WCS. Who says no?

Probably the Mavs. I would take that deal though. Kinda sad that I would rather have Timmy over Randle.

[thebuzzardman]

I agree in principle. It's a lot of money to just eat though.

I dont think they would cut him...But I do think there were opportunities and our price is too high or they were not looking hard enough...or maybe just wanted to keep him. Oh well.

I would agree with that.

Randle and Rivers for Hardaway and WCS. Who says no?

Rivers is actually useful to the Knicks though, I think.

[cgf]

I don't think anyone is discounting the performance...but people are also trying to be measured and realistic.

When CLE was playing anyone even NBA rotation worthy we were getting destroyed so its hard to look past that. But the kids stepped up late regardless of the competition. They erased a 10 pt lead with 6 minutes to go regardless of who they were playing that is impressive.

I will take any young kids playing well but also suggesting that this will carry over at all is a bit much too...60-80% of the players in the 4th qtr for the cavs wont even be on an NBA roster in a few days.

Just being honest for 3 and half qtrs this game was a disaster and comical with the way we were playing so I don't know if they were doing what they supposed to do...IQ turned the game around with his energy and playmaking props to him. Hopefully we continue to see more of those lineups with the young kids rather than Payton/Randle playing with themselves for 30 minutes.

Not saying it is going to carry-over but you stated my point. Agreed. And to go along with Payton/Randle... I would be just fine not seeing Bullock again.

yeah bullock is buns as well. I think Frank will play over Bullock. Frank is a better defender and may even be a better shooter at this point.

IQ earned rotational minutes.

I just don't see them going away from Payton/Randle starting anytime soon...and we know RJ and a center will be playing to start games...so I see no way out of this hell unless Thibs pulls the plug on the Patyon/Randle situation...do you? I don't think they have the balls to do it.

Julius isn't going anywhere for a little bit, but I'm optimistic that Rivers can push Payton out of the starting lineup...and Rivers-RJ-Burks-Randle-Noel/Mitch shouldn't be anywhere near as much of a cluster**** as having Elf n Julius both out there with RJ & a rim-runner.

Especially cause Elf would be a lot more effective if we were bringing him off the bench to feed Julius while RJ rests or even to give the kids some stability when they're flailing & need some structure.

[Chanel Bomber]

IMO, they haven't found the right deal for Julius yet. But why they brought Payton back is beyond me. That is nuts.

Before I was being open-minded about it, but now I want Perry booted out of this FO. Payton again? Really? FOH!

He seems to have an ego about "his" guys that gets in the way of an otherwise good mind.

Is it though?

He doesn't value shooting, he doesn't embrace analytics, he doesn't understand the value of floor spacing, and his talent evaluation is horrific outside of the Mitch steal (RJ was a lay-up).

I think Perry's pretty good at managing operations and maybe managing assets, like signing Marcus Morris and trading him for a first-round draft pick. But he's awful at converting those assets into basketball players that fit with one another.

[cgf]

Read on Twitter

someone had to talk to mitch...those clips he was finally actually making contact with those screens and it made a world of difference.

Mitch actually setting screens & staying on the court with 5 fouls...seems that Noel-mentoring is already paying off

Maybe the secret to unlocking Mitch is convincing him that he already has 5 fouls whenever he steps onto the floor