bleacherreport: Knicks Will Win 2014 Atlantic Division

[Silverback]

None at all. He clearly didnt watch a single Knick game last year.

[BballFever1]

Its a joke because its a bleacher report and I'm not 100% convinced Knicks will win it for sure. Nets have improved significantly so it will be fun watching them go head to head, but no doubt it will be a team from the big apple taking the division this year.

[RHODEY]

Deron isn't on any sort of decline. He actually had his best season since the trade which is primarily because he has a better roster around him. Carmelo and Deron had the two best statistical numbers in the league post-all star break. Lopez isn't injury prone. He played more games last season than Carmelo's last two seasons. The definition of injury prone would be someone that consistently misses games throughout their career. Kevin Love has the same unfortunate situation, it doesn't make him injury prone either. 5 seasons out of 1 season doesn't define a player as injury prone.

In comparison to his Utah days Deron is in decline. Better roster or not he hasn't played at an elite level for 3 years. Lopez's feet/ankles are pretty fragile, not a good type of recurring injury for a center...

Garnett averaged 12/14 on 50% FG. Pierce definitely didn't preform well but neither did Carmelo, JR Smith or Tyson Chandler. The thing that confuses me is, how do you all constantly ignore the fact Rondo was out and Pierce had to play Point Forward, Defend Carmelo then Score? I gave the Knicks all the benefit of the doubt and got into heated arguments defending the Knicks back in 2010 when Amare/Billups missed games but you can't give the same respect for Boston? that's pretty wrong if you ask me.

Whatever, Rondo is irrelevant here since he doesn't play for BK. But really the wheels are about to fall off KG and Pierce and Joe Johnson isn't too far behind them.

When Deron comes out, Shaun Livingston comes in or Tyshawn Taylor.

LOL!

Joe Johnson comes out, Jason Terry comes in (shot 38% from 3) last year or Alan Anderson.

Then, there is Reggie Evans, best rebounder in the league per minute. Andray Blatche best backup center in the league. On paper, combined the Nets have a bench that averages 57 points and 29 rebounds with their individual numbers last season combined.

That is better than any bench in the league on paper as of right now. Do I expect that or any other Net fans expect that production? No but they will win games on certain nights by themselves. Bargnani statistically is a downgrade to Novak. Nobody really deserves the type of scrutiny he gets but hopefully for his sake Bargnani outperforms his last few years but I'm willing to say Copeland/Novak are better players.

Comical.

[Apples]

Knicks still have the best player on either team.

[Durins Baynes]

Except he's playing out of position, somewhat diminishing his value. A good argument can be advanced that the Nets are better 1-5 in the starting line-up, and have the better bench too, not to mention the better fit of players. I think it's hard to pick the Knicks over them this year, especially with the Knicks injury cloud.

[omerome]

Except he's playing out of position, somewhat diminishing his value. A good argument can be advanced that the Nets are better 1-5 in the starting line-up, and have the better bench too, not to mention the better fit of players. I think it's hard to pick the Knicks over them this year, especially with the Knicks injury cloud.

He's playing out of position and still had a great season. You're making it seem that playing out of position has hurt the team.

[Durins Baynes]

It reduces his value. I'm sorry to point out the obvious, but every team would take KG at the 4 spot over Melo based on last years form. If KG falls off a cliff next year, then sure, you can take Melo. But otherwise I don't see the argument. Melo can't defend 4's by and large, something that hurts you a lot, and while he's making the best of a bad situation with his great play, there's no question KG is the more impactful player at the 4 slot, especially come playoff time.

[omerome]

It reduces his value. I'm sorry to point out the obvious, but every team would take KG at the 4 spot over Melo based on last years form. If KG falls off a cliff next year, then sure, you can take Melo. But otherwise I don't see the argument. Melo can't defend 4's by and large, something that hurts you a lot, and while he's making the best of a bad situation with his great play, there's no question KG is the more impactful player at the 4 slot, especially come playoff time.

I don't think you understand. KG at the 4 at this point in his career would only get considered because of his name and reputation. He's too slow to guard the quicker PFs today which is why he's been playing C a lot.

Melo is undersized at the 4 but his speed and quickness makes him a matchup nightmare for 4s on the defensive end. Playing him at the 3 would be optimal, but last year we didn't have a starting caliber PF which is why Melo played in that spot.

[Swag]

It reduces his value. I'm sorry to point out the obvious, but every team would take KG at the 4 spot over Melo based on last years form. If KG falls off a cliff next year, then sure, you can take Melo. But otherwise I don't see the argument. Melo can't defend 4's by and large, something that hurts you a lot, and while he's making the best of a bad situation with his great play, there's no question KG is the more impactful player at the 4 slot, especially come playoff time.

I don't think you understand. KG at the 4 at this point in his career would only get considered because of his name and reputation. He's too slow to guard the quicker PFs today which is why he's been playing C a lot.

Melo is undersized at the 4 but his speed and quickness makes him a matchup nightmare for 4s on the defensive end. Playing him at the 3 would be optimal, but last year we didn't have a starting caliber PF which is why Melo played in that spot.

Isn't it true that Melo guarded PF on the defensive side of the ball but on offense, he was often guarded by the opponents SF? (a quick list of examples below)

So in essence, he would be banging with guys bigger and stronger than him on one end, and be guarded by a fresher (SF) player on the other end (worked well last year but it will take a toll on him going forward)

Bulls - Deng
Pacers - PG
Washington - Ariza
Raptors - Gay
Denver - Gallo
Lakers - Artest

[Durins Baynes]

He's been playing the 5 because the Celtics have been desperate for a 5 since Perkins left, and have no size in the middle. There is no evidence at all he can no longer guard 4's. Yes, Melo is a match up nightmare... on one end, and on the other he gives the other team a match up wet dream. Woodson is making lemons out of lemonade, but Melo is still an awkward fit at the 4 which is holding you back. In contrast KG will fit perfectly for the Nets, and when they want to go smaller/faster they can just switch KG to the 5 and AK-47 to the 4. If they want to go big, they keep KG and Lopez in. It's basically unfair it's so hard to counter.

[omerome]

Isn't true that Melo guarded PF on the defensive side of the ball but on offense, he was often guarded by the opponents SF? (a quick list of examples below)

So in essence, he would be banging his guys bigger and stronger than him on one end and be guarded by a fresher player on the other end (worked well last year but it will take a toll on him going forward)

Bulls - Deng
Pacers - PG
Washington - Ariza
Raptors - Gay
Denver - Gallo
Lakers - Artest

Yeah that's true. That's the unfortunate part of small ball. We don't have a starting caliber PF on our team (longshot for Bargs, not holding my breath though and Amar'e is on a minutes limit).

Melo did the best he could, and it's amazing he's not getting more credit for that. To win as much games as we did with such an obvious mismatch shows either Melo is better than people think, or other teams don't know WTF to do against us (Chicago being one of the exceptions).

[Swag]

Isn't true that Melo guarded PF on the defensive side of the ball but on offense, he was often guarded by the opponents SF? (a quick list of examples below)

So in essence, he would be banging his guys bigger and stronger than him on one end and be guarded by a fresher player on the other end (worked well last year but it will take a toll on him going forward)

Bulls - Deng
Pacers - PG
Washington - Ariza
Raptors - Gay
Denver - Gallo
Lakers - Artest

Yeah that's true. That's the unfortunate part of small ball. We don't have a starting caliber PF on our team (longshot for Bargs, not holding my breath though and Amar'e is on a minutes limit).

Melo did the best he could, and it's amazing he's not getting more credit for that. To win as much games as we did with such an obvious mismatch shows either Melo is better than people think, or other teams don't know WTF to do against us (Chicago being one of the exceptions).

Melo had an amazing regular season but truth be told, success (at this point) should only be meassured by playoff wins/advancing (not to take anything away from Melo)

But I get the feeling that Melo is only interested in playing the PF spot - which is fine - but I think the team would be better served with him going back to SF

[omerome]

Melo had an amazing regular season but truth be told, success (at this point) should only be meassured by playoff wins/advancing (not to take anything away from Melo)

But I get the feeling that Melo is only interested in playing the PF spot - which is fine - but I think the team would be better served with him going back to SF

Success should be measured by winning in the playoffs, but you also have to look at the why. Why didn't the Knicks win, you ask? Playing Melo at the 4 was not why we lost in the playoffs. Part of it was our inability to have someone else capable of playing the 4 and put Melo at his natural SF position. Melo's injury didn't help but if he didn't put up his numbers, the series would of ended much sooner against the Pacers.

I think Melo would prefer to go back to his natural position. He already said before he doesn't want to play "bully ball" anymore. He's obviously more dangerous when he gets the ball in a catch and shoot situation instead of going one-on-one (ISO) or banging in the paint.

People love to bring up playoff win % on a particular player and the stat about Melo having the worst playoff win % has to be one of the worst statistical analysis I have heard of. Last time I checked 4 other guys were on the court with him at the time, you cannot put a loss on one guy. He may be part of the problem, but he isn't the entire problem. We lost partly because of Tyson Chandler's inability to guard Hibbert and put him in foul trouble on the other end, JR Smith's inability to score/defend/focus, Kidd's inability to score/defend, Woodson's decision making, and partly because Indiana was just flat out better overall than us.

[Italians in NBA]

Bargnani statistically is a downgrade to Novak. Nobody really deserves the type of scrutiny he gets but hopefully for his sake Bargnani outperforms his last few years but I'm willing to say Copeland/Novak are better players.

This is simply ridiculous from every point of view. I do not know what stats are you speaking about. But if you ever played either just saw 1 basketball game you cannot really think it. How can you compare a player who could score more than 17 PPG in 3 seasons of his career being always doubled by opponents in every single game with a player who can only score from three always being probably watched by the worst opponent defender. C'mon guy, let's speak about real basketball.

[Tron Carter]

That is better than any bench in the league on paper as of right now. Do I expect that or any other Net fans expect that production? No but they will win games on certain nights by themselves. Bargnani statistically is a downgrade to Novak. Nobody really deserves the type of scrutiny he gets but hopefully for his sake Bargnani outperforms his last few years but I'm willing to say Copeland/Novak are better players.

i didn't even like the trade but if these are the statements jersey nyets fans want to bring to our board they can stfu and gtfo.

[nykballa2k4]

It reduces his value. I'm sorry to point out the obvious, but every team would take KG at the 4 spot over Melo based on last years form. If KG falls off a cliff next year, then sure, you can take Melo. But otherwise I don't see the argument. Melo can't defend 4's by and large, something that hurts you a lot, and while he's making the best of a bad situation with his great play, there's no question KG is the more impactful player at the 4 slot, especially come playoff time.

this information is inherently false. We all saw the trade value for Melo and the trade value for KG WITH Pierce. I am sorry but a couple picks and Mar$wag brooks is not an appealing package.

Melo CAN defend 4's. He defended Miami's 4's well, defended Boston and BKNs 4's well. He didn't even do poorly on West. Kg, meanwhile was torched by both LeBron and Melo. Kg is vulnerable to small-ball teams and has to rely on refs not calling him for trying to hurt guys, meanwhile Melo holds his own vs everyone in the league.

Argument should be moot anyhow since Knicks have Amare, who is better in a 20 minute span, as a power forward.

KG will not play over 60 games next season.

[moocow007]

Except he's playing out of position, somewhat diminishing his value. A good argument can be advanced that the Nets are better 1-5 in the starting line-up, and have the better bench too, not to mention the better fit of players. I think it's hard to pick the Knicks over them this year, especially with the Knicks injury cloud.

What injury cloud? You mean Stoudemire? JR Smiths' projected return will be somewhere between start of preseason and the 1st week of the regular season. There is no other player on the current roster, aside from Stoudemire, that has any lingering injury of any sort.

What you should consider if you are considering Knicks health is the Nets health AND age. KG is 36 (will be 37 before the end of the season) and Kidd has already. Paul Pierce will be turning 36 half way through the preseason and Jason Terry will be 36 in about 2 weeks. If the Knicks "old men" were any indication (and the Knicks were among the leaders in the NBA in games missed for players in the rotation last season due in large part to nagging injuries to old players)...expect injuries.

[NoLayupRule]

its also worth mentioning that the depth behind KG and Lopez - two players who havent stayed healthy for a season in quite sometime - are AK-47, Blatche and Evans. well Tetlovic for whatever thats worth and plumlee and Shengelia for whatever thats worth too.


thats not great depth for their bigs which means any injury is compounded with struggles at that position as well as potentially too many mins for whoever remains


If KG gets hurt they will have to start evans and then only have rookies off the bench with AK-47 probably playing SF behind Pierce, unless they want to run him into the ground


I hope they implode

[nykballa2k4]

Except he's playing out of position, somewhat diminishing his value. A good argument can be advanced that the Nets are better 1-5 in the starting line-up, and have the better bench too, not to mention the better fit of players. I think it's hard to pick the Knicks over them this year, especially with the Knicks injury cloud.

What injury cloud? You mean Stoudemire? JR Smiths' projected return will be somewhere between start of preseason and the 1st week of the regular season. There is no other player on the current roster, aside from Stoudemire, that has any lingering injury of any sort.

What you should consider if you are considering Knicks health is the Nets health AND age. KG is 36 (will be 37 before the end of the season) and Kidd has already. Paul Pierce will be turning 36 half way through the preseason and Jason Terry will be 36 in about 2 weeks. If the Knicks "old men" were any indication (and the Knicks were among the leaders in the NBA in games missed for players in the rotation last season due in large part to nagging injuries to old players)...expect injuries.

Nets fans will be in for a rude awakening. KG, Lopez and Deron all have had injury concerns in recent history. Age is no friend of Joe Johnson, Terry, KG, or Pierce.

Compounding matters, NY got 'more youthier' and more talented this summer so I think Knicks should be the narrow favorites with about 58 wins to get the division over perhaps 52 for the Nets.

it will be interesting this season with the top-heavy structure of the league. There are about 10-12 real teams in the league and everyone else, for all intents an purposes, is sorta irrelevant.
(Knicks, Nets, Heat, Pacers, Bulls, Clippers, Nuggets, Thunder, Spurs, Rockets, maybe Grizzlies, Mavericks)

[Jazz(FU)]

Except he's playing out of position, somewhat diminishing his value. A good argument can be advanced that the Nets are better 1-5 in the starting line-up, and have the better bench too, not to mention the better fit of players. I think it's hard to pick the Knicks over them this year, especially with the Knicks injury cloud.

What injury cloud? You mean Stoudemire? JR Smiths' projected return will be somewhere between start of preseason and the 1st week of the regular season. There is no other player on the current roster, aside from Stoudemire, that has any lingering injury of any sort.

What you should consider if you are considering Knicks health is the Nets health AND age. KG is 36 (will be 37 before the end of the season) and Kidd has already. Paul Pierce will be turning 36 half way through the preseason and Jason Terry will be 36 in about 2 weeks. If the Knicks "old men" were any indication (and the Knicks were among the leaders in the NBA in games missed for players in the rotation last season due in large part to nagging injuries to old players)...expect injuries.

Some people really need to update their "Knick files". Old and injured is last years storyline. This years team is far younger (addition by subtraction), healthier and more talented/ developed. From an objective standpoint the team has done a fantastic job of adding talented depth and options. With less expected from individual players the roles some will play allows the staff greater flexibility. Sadly, last season the team had a hard time with ball movement and scoring. Udrih and Barnani will both significantly improve that and anything Stoudemire brings to the table will be pure icing.

This years Nets team, reads like last years Knicks. Lots of old talent... Can the young stay healthy enough to keep the old from wearing out?

Im going back to the face vs body thread.. by far a more pleasurable thread to participate in.