OT: Is Dirk top 12 of all time??

[gavran]

Barkley wasn't in my top 10 so why not try to argue why he would deserve being in the top 10 of the list you are pointing at.

What? I'm arguing that Barkley is ahead of Duncan on your list, which is a joke.

? You pointed to Barkley and then said Duncan should be in the top 10. Barkely barely made my top 15. Duncan is right in the next group.

No, I pointed to Duncan being in the 16-25 range, and then shacked my head on Barkley being ahead of him, it was clear. Duncan is so much better than Barkley, it's not even funny. And that's without rings as well.

[moocow007]

I'll probably go with these guys as my top 15 all-time is

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Bill Russell
4. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
5. Oscar Roberston
6. Elgin Baylor
7. Bob Pettit
8. Larry Bird
9. Magic Johnson
10. Jerry West
11. Shaquile Oneal
12. Hakeem Olajuwon
13. Lebron James
14. Julius Erving
15. Charles Barkley

Yes, yes, boo on Lebron James but if you put James numbers and wins against any of these guys on the list, he belongs. His 840 games and over 33,000 minutes played would put him in the pack of the current list of guys who are in the last official "top 50" poll so I don't buy the "he hasn't played enough" argument that some will have. With a 25.1ppg, 6.6rpg, 6.3apg, 1.6spg at near 50% from the field...and career winning percentage in the .640 range. If we are talking Duncan and Nowitzki, we should be talking James.

Duncan and Nowitzki IMO would be in the 16-25 range along with guys like George Gervin, Bob Cousy, David Robinson, Rick Barry, Isiah Thomas, etc.

Guys like Bill Walton, George Mikan and even Bernard King were game changing type players during their prime but just did not have long enough careers to really make the type of impact in terms of the all time greats that they probably could have been.

A guy like Durant will also likely cement himself as one of the all time greats by the end assuming he can remain healthy.

I like your list but Duncan and Malone are better overall players than Barkley.

Yeah...was a flip for me. Any of those 3 guys could have been 15 in my book. I think Duncan and Malone are more condusive to winning (Duncan obviously) but I was a healthy fan of Barkleys'.

[MaseInYourFace]

If anything I think Barkley is a a bit overrated because he was huge in the 90's in terms of popularity. The only guy who touched Jordan at times in terms of selling shoes, etc was Barkley. Overall as a player he had a lot of faults, he was extremely selfish at times, was a mediocre defender, never won a title, etc. All time great scorer and rebounder at his position no doubt.

[moocow007]

What? I'm arguing that Barkley is ahead of Duncan on your list, which is a joke.

? You pointed to Barkley and then said Duncan should be in the top 10. Barkely barely made my top 15. Duncan is right in the next group.

No, I pointed to Duncan being in the 16-25 range, and then shacked my head on Barkley being ahead of him, it was clear. Duncan is so much better than Barkley, it's not even funny. And that's without rings as well.

That's your opinion. I think the 2 of them...along with Malone are close. Like I said in the previous post, if this was about the guy that might be most condusive to a winning environment then Duncan obviously would be the choice (he's actually 2nd all time in team winning percentage). But top list generally is about individual play and I like Barkley. What does it matter if Duncan is 16 and Barkley is 15? But back to point, how would Duncan be in the top 10. Who in the top 10 is he a better player than?

[moocow007]

If anything I think Barkley is a a bit overrated because he was huge in the 90's in terms of popularity. The only guy who touched Jordan at times in terms of selling shoes, etc was Barkley. Overall as a player he had a lot of faults, he was extremely selfish at times, was a mediocre defender, never won a title, etc. All time great scorer and rebounder at his position no doubt.

Yeah...what can I say...I live on hype a little. Like I said, was a big fan of Barkley. He was selfish but he was an absolute warrior out there. He didn't back down and played at 110% no matter what.

[KnIcKsYaNkSmEtS1127]

Karl Malone is the Mariano Rivera of the NBA minus the rings. Everyone knows Mariano is going to through the cut fastball and there's nothing you can do to stop it. Malone everyone knows pick and roll or throw it in deep and watch him back you down in the paint. Malones numbers are impressive also he's a gritty tough nose defender and one of the dirtiest players of all time. IMO better than Barkley. Barkley played on crappy team so it's easy to put up big numbers. Malone put up big numbers but just like Ewing just played in the wrong (MJ) era.

[j4remi]

I'm fairly certain that I could come up with 20 players I like above Dirk...but it'd get tough after 15.

[NewEra]

Where's Melo? lol

[Forbes]

I don't agree with 12 all time. But def top 12 on IMPACT in a game. It's a potty dirk never got to play with a another legit superstar both in there primes. I put him in that Ewing/Iverson category of player that had to carry their team by their damn selves. Even though he has a ring. He still in that category.

Melo seems like he will be apart of that category.

[Knicksfan20]

Rick Carlisle thinks so...

I could name at least 15 players who were better. I have him at 18.

1. Jordan
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Lebron (although I hate him)
8. Shaq
9. Big O
10. Hakeem
11. Duncan
12. Jerry West
13. Kobe
14. Moses Malone
15. Pippen
16. Karl Malone
17. Garnett
18. Dirk

Barkley?

[NormanTwain]

Dirk is not top 12, but a case can be made for him (along with about 5 other players) being in the top 20.

I think you have Pippen too high. But I guess you are accounting for rings....Otherwise were is Benard King

Pippen is definitely too high, and Bernard King is not even in the conversation; the guy is not even a top 50 player.

I'll probably go with these guys as my top 15 all-time is

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Bill Russell
4. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
5. Oscar Roberston
6. Elgin Baylor
7. Bob Pettit
8. Larry Bird
9. Magic Johnson
10. Jerry West
11. Shaquile Oneal
12. Hakeem Olajuwon
13. Lebron James
14. Julius Erving
15. Charles Barkley

-Baylor and Pettit don't belong anywhere near the top 15, let alone top 10.

-A case for Oscar being a top 10 player is tough to make, let alone top 5.

-You're missing Duncan in your top 10, and Kobe, Moses, and Karl in your top 15.

[Jazz(FU)]

SO many names missing from these lists...

[gavran]

? You pointed to Barkley and then said Duncan should be in the top 10. Barkely barely made my top 15. Duncan is right in the next group.

No, I pointed to Duncan being in the 16-25 range, and then shacked my head on Barkley being ahead of him, it was clear. Duncan is so much better than Barkley, it's not even funny. And that's without rings as well.

That's your opinion. I think the 2 of them...along with Malone are close. Like I said in the previous post, if this was about the guy that might be most condusive to a winning environment then Duncan obviously would be the choice (he's actually 2nd all time in team winning percentage). But top list generally is about individual play and I like Barkley. What does it matter if Duncan is 16 and Barkley is 15? But back to point, how would Duncan be in the top 10. Who in the top 10 is he a better player than?

No, actually, that is a fact.

[DijonRondo]

What the hell are these lists based on? Literal player skill? Because unless you can somehow simulate all these players and somehow rank them, it's a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) way of ranking players. The criteria for these lists should always be based on legacy (team success, individual success, etc).

It's a **** travesty to have Duncan outside of the top 7, let alone top 16.

[ozwizard8]

if he meant "top 12" like a squad to fill i could add Dirk.

also about the first list shaq should be number 1.
HE CHANGED THE RULES OF NBA.

His dominance wasnt about referee's like jordan-lbj in finals. He was a beast and no one can compete with him.

[three2theD]

1) Jordan
2) Wilt
3) Russel
4) Oscar
5) Kobe
6) Kareem
7) Shaq
8) Lebron
9) Magic
10) Bird
11) Baylor
12) West
13) Hakeem
14) Pippen
15) Dirk
16) Malone (Karl)
17) Robinson
18) Dr. J
19) Ewing
20) Garnet

[prolific96]

All I'm gonna say is that Shaq would eat Wilt for breakfast.

Your reaching a little on that one. Chamberlain was an incredible athlete with the size and strength to match up with Shaq. Wilt would've been a star today no doubt. Not saying Wilt would've averages 50 pts and 30 rebounds but he easily would've been among the best centers today.

[NormanTwain]

1) Jordan
2) Wilt
3) Russel
4) Oscar
5) Kobe
6) Kareem
7) Shaq
8) Lebron
9) Magic
10) Bird
11) Baylor
12) West
13) Hakeem
14) Pippen
15) Dirk
16) Malone (Karl)
17) Robinson
18) Dr. J
19) Ewing
20) Garnet

Hopefully this isn't in order, because if it is, it's incredibly off.

Lol @ Ewing and Baylor in the top 20.

[three2theD]

1) Jordan
2) Wilt
3) Russel
4) Oscar
5) Kobe
6) Kareem
7) Shaq
8) Lebron
9) Magic
10) Bird
11) Baylor
12) West
13) Hakeem
14) Pippen
15) Dirk
16) Malone (Karl)
17) Robinson
18) Dr. J
19) Ewing
20) Garnet

Hopefully this isn't in order, because if it is, it's incredibly off.

Lol @ Ewing and Baylor in the top 20.

Okay, lets see your top 20

[CKamm1]

It's too difficult to definitively compare across eras and big guys vs little guys etc. There's no PF I'd clearly take over Dirk besides Duncan though. They all have their stronger points but what I think sets Dirk apart ever so slightly from a Malone or Garnett is end of game you without a doubt want the ball in his hands, you can't fully trust those other guys.