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GONYK wrote:

SMAC-K wrote:

Slava wrote:
I think you are misinterpreting the stats. Transition plays are usually the highest FG% plays for any player. If you need a reference, even a guy like George Hill who is far from an athlete has around has 186 transition plays, scoring 1.06 points per play.

Even Jose Calderon ran 57 transition plays scoring 0.96 points per play, ranking in the 25th percentile.

My point exactly! Nobody in their right mind would say that Calderon is better in transition than Derrick Rose.

Calderon's numbers are better in many cases because his usage was much lower and he picked his spots much better.

That raises the question, which player is more harmful:

The one who can't do much, but knows what he can do and doesn't deviate from it

-OR-

The one who can do more, but doesn't do it well and uses a lot of possessions trying to do more than he's capable of

Yeah. Jose hurt the team because he just didn't do much on the court. Rose hurt his team because he tried to do too much and used a bunch of possessions inefficiently. Rose's value will increase a lot if he can be more efficient with lower usage.

Fat Kat wrote:

kingquan316 wrote:If you guys are happy with the offseason, then **** what other people think about it.

Agreed. However it would be nice if they kept their unsolicited takes to themselves. This thread is basically a "take a look at us bashing your team" circle jerk. It's a troll attempt. Nothing more.

We've done it for every team in the league...

blueNorange wrote:

Deeeez Knicks wrote:

dbrandon wrote:
You might could make a case for the 2011 Mavs, which was kind of a collection of misfits. But a lot of things have to break your way.

The '06 Heat had 33 year old Shaq, Gary Payton, Antoine Walker, Shandon Anderson, Jason Williams, 35 year old Zo...if Antoine Walker can start on a championship team anything is possible.

they also had wade that was one of the best players in the game.

if you're comparing melo to wade then stop, because melo is on the decline. he just came off a poor shooting season and a year where he lost a step.

No, just giving an example of a team that had players who were considered washed up or on the decline and won.

blueNorange wrote:

King of Canada wrote:It sure was nice of BnO to write all of those reviews for those posters

i mean the thing that's truly funny is that everytime the knicks win you fellas will call me out, but everytime the knicks lose i won't call you guys out.

either way i'm gonna be right because the knicks are banking on 2 washed up players and that has never, EVER worked out in any sport.

I'm just busting your balls. There is lots of truth in your posts and in their reviews, but at the end of the day none of us really knows how the season will play out. Our track record isn't good at all, so you could very well be right. I'm hesitant to say anything either way, but I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

dbrandon wrote:

Deeeez Knicks wrote:

dbrandon wrote:
You might could make a case for the 2011 Mavs, which was kind of a collection of misfits. But a lot of things have to break your way.

The '06 Heat had 33 year old Shaq, Gary Payton, Antoine Walker, Shandon Anderson, Jason Williams, 35 year old Zo...if Antoine Walker can start on a championship team anything is possible.

Wade put up an inhuman postseason performance on that team, though. Just monstrous. Same thing that happened with Dirk.

Could Melo be that guy? Maybe?

Like I said in the review, if everyone is healthy and the best versions of themselves, the Knicks will be excellent. I just don't see it happening. And Noah's contract is very likely to be an albatross.

Wade was an animal and had the refs in his pockets. Not really trying to compare that Heat team to the Knicks as we are just trying to make the playoffs. Just counting the Heat as a team with some aging players and castaways that won.

As for the Knicks, I doubt we will get the best versions of everyone and I would also expect Noah and Rose to miss some games. But I think they can be better then they were last season. I am hoping the change of scenery will really help Rose and he did play better in the 2nd half. He should add an element that has been missing from the Knicks and that will help a lot. Hornacek seems to get the most from his PGs too and puts them in a good position. It will be interesting to see how the offense looks with all the new faces.

To be honest though, I really don't know what to expect. There are reasons for hope, and reasons for doubt. If we do get the Rose and Noah from last season we are pretty much screwed. Can't blame anyone for predicting that either. Its anyones guess how it will turn out

GONYK wrote:

SMAC-K wrote:

Slava wrote:
I think you are misinterpreting the stats. Transition plays are usually the highest FG% plays for any player. If you need a reference, even a guy like George Hill who is far from an athlete has around has 186 transition plays, scoring 1.06 points per play.

Even Jose Calderon ran 57 transition plays scoring 0.96 points per play, ranking in the 25th percentile.

My point exactly! Nobody in their right mind would say that Calderon is better in transition than Derrick Rose.

Calderon's numbers are better in many cases because his usage was much lower and he picked his spots much better.

That raises the question, which player is more harmful:

The one who can't do much, but knows what he can do and doesn't deviate from it

-OR-

The one who can do more, but doesn't do it well and uses a lot of possessions trying to do more than he's capable of

This actually reminded me of a situation last year that kind of summed up the problems with the Knicks. Carmelo Anthony was on the bench and Calderon was on the floor, Calderon had the ball and had a wide open lane to the basket. What does he decide to do? He decides to not deviate from what he can do, so with the shot clock running down he decides to pass it to his teammate (I believe it was Porzingis) who was completely covered by the defense and because the clock was running down he had to throw up a horrible shot just to avoid the shot clock violation. The camera cuts to the Knicks bench and you could clearly see the frustration with Melo as he was screaming at Calderon to "drive to the basket" and he looked over to the Knicks coaching staff in complete disgust.

This happened quite often, so what happened was you had a guy in Aaron Afflalo who pretty much had to go outside of his abilities and try to carry the offense because Carmelo needed help, Calderon was not capable of anything other than spot up shooting and even when he was open he often passed up the shot for whatever reason, the defense would recover and the Knicks were forced into a bad shot. You won't find anything about that in the stats sheets.

So you tell me which player is more harmful

To me, a missed good shot is better than a missed bad shot. They both provide the same result, a miss, but you live with the good shot. Rose was not taking bad shots and was not using possessions trying to do more than he is capable of, like you claim. He played with an eye injury that affected his vision and he never was able to actually catch a rhythm and flow which is key. He wasn't doing anything outside of his capabilities, he was just not making the shots that when healthy he is capable of making. Calderon was putting the Knicks in situations to take bad shots, which to me is far worse than a guy missing shots he is capable of making.

KnicksGod wrote:The range of scores is wrong or at least biased heavily. If the Lakers did what Phil did this summer, people would be giving them a range of A+ to B+.

Lakers got an F from me. I'm not sure you really want to try that angle.

Edit: Looks like that was covered earlier.

2015 v. 2016

PG - Calderon/Grant < Rose/Jennings
SG - Afflalo/Galloway < Lee/Holiday
SF - Melo/Williams == Melo/Kuzminskas
PF - Porzingis/Lance < Porzingis/Lance
C - Lopez/O'Quinn == Noah/O'Quinn

Bench:
Vujacic, Seraphin, Early, Thanasis, Amundson, Fredette < Vujacic, Ndour, Hernangomez, Baker, Randle

Coach:
Fisher/Rambis < Hornacek

There are always injury concerns but when you improve both back court positions, assume Porzingis is going to get better, improve the bench and coaching, I just don't see how we don't improve our record. For the record, Rose in street clothes is still better than Calderon.

Fat Kat wrote:

kingquan316 wrote:If you guys are happy with the offseason, then **** what other people think about it.

Agreed. However it would be nice if they kept their unsolicited takes to themselves. This thread is basically a "take a look at us bashing your team" circle jerk. It's a troll attempt. Nothing more.

but they're not wrong, that's the thing.

it bothers you because it's true.

Deeeez Knicks wrote:

blueNorange wrote:

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
The '06 Heat had 33 year old Shaq, Gary Payton, Antoine Walker, Shandon Anderson, Jason Williams, 35 year old Zo...if Antoine Walker can start on a championship team anything is possible.

they also had wade that was one of the best players in the game.

if you're comparing melo to wade then stop, because melo is on the decline. he just came off a poor shooting season and a year where he lost a step.

No, just giving an example of a team that had players who were considered washed up or on the decline and won.

But the difference is they had Wade, who was able to put up a Michael Jordan level performance for them to win. Melo couldn't play at that level even in his prime, let alone at 32.

Maybe if Kristaps blossoms into his full potential this year, then it could be possible. However it's more likely that Melo and Rose will stunt his growth and relegate him to 3rd option, rather than let him take over the team.

i think it's more disturbing that people think brandon ennings is going to be a positive for the knicks, he was the worst acquisition of all and the fact that he's going to get a lot of minutes will be a huge reason why the knicks will be a mediocre team.

bondom34 wrote:

Fat Kat wrote:

kingquan316 wrote:If you guys are happy with the offseason, then **** what other people think about it.

Agreed. However it would be nice if they kept their unsolicited takes to themselves. This thread is basically a "take a look at us bashing your team" circle jerk. It's a troll attempt. Nothing more.

We've done it for every team in the league...

You've started this thread on every board?

Fat Kat wrote:

bondom34 wrote:

Fat Kat wrote:
Agreed. However it would be nice if they kept their unsolicited takes to themselves. This thread is basically a "take a look at us bashing your team" circle jerk. It's a troll attempt. Nothing more.

We've done it for every team in the league...

You've started this thread on every board?

Yep, HW has.

Actually, we haven't done the Sixers or Cavs yet, along with a couple others who are due up next week. Forget the other 2, but there should be 4 left.

bondom34 wrote:Yep, HW has.

And one for the sadomasochism required to do that You're a brave lot, but I'm sure it sparks some really great convos (and some rage I'm assuming as well).

j4remi wrote:

bondom34 wrote:Yep, HW has.

And one for the sadomasochism required to do that You're a brave lot, but I'm sure it sparks some really great convos (and some rage I'm assuming as well).

Oh, this board is awesome. You guys have a really good bunch of posters here, we've had way more trouble from other groups than you, some of who got good grades even. Always fun to stir up solid discussion.

blueNorange wrote:

Carl_Karlson wrote:No matter how you spin it, we're in a much better place now

ahh, except this isn't true.

True. Much better to be capped out with albatross contracts, with no draft picks, and no team vision, like we used to be instead of having a legit young prospect, cap room, and ALL our draft picks, like we do now.

****, I'm so relieved to have our picks, it wouldn't break my heart if we suck next year. I don't want us to suck but there's hope in either road

Carl_Karlson wrote:

blueNorange wrote:

Carl_Karlson wrote:No matter how you spin it, we're in a much better place now

ahh, except this isn't true.

True. Much better to be capped out with albatross contracts, with no draft picks, and no team vision, like we used to be instead of having a legit young prospect, cap room, and ALL our draft picks, like we do now.

****, I'm so relieved to have our picks, it wouldn't break my heart if we suck next year. I don't want us to suck but there's hope in either road

There's a bigger point to make here too: since Phil came on board the franchise's direction is different. There's some hope again.

I think he made a misstep betting on health, but most of the other moves that have been made since Phil stepped in to save Dolan from himself have been very solid. And I've liked a lot of the fringe moves this year (Lee is very solid, as is Lance).

If the Knicks can woo a decent FA next year (barring a miracle recovery I'd let Rose walk), they might be back in the running again.

The assessment is fair, however I think the low end is actually lower. If the wheels fall off (tons of injuries), this could easily be a low 20ish win team. It will take a full alignment of the stars, moon, and planets for us to be over 41 wins.

j4remi wrote:

bondom34 wrote:Yep, HW has.

And one for the sadomasochism required to do that You're a brave lot, but I'm sure it sparks some really great convos (and some rage I'm assuming as well).

Ha. The reactions have actually been pretty good in general, and I haven't just cream puffed all the grades (Just looked it up earlier, and with 4 teams left so far I have gone: 6 A's, 8 B's, 6 C's, 3 D's, 2 F's.)

I think the one I feared the most was telling the Laker fans they got an F. That offseason just felt like a gambler that starts with a hand of 4 aces, and then asks for 2 new cards and throws one in. Sure it is great you still have 3 aces, but you deserve an F for doing that and there is no other grade I can justify even if a hand of 3 aces is a B+.

Besides that, the ones you might think would have a lot of debate have (Orlando, Sacramento), and unexpectedly giving Miami an A wasn't well received by at least one fan of their team.