Porzingis Unicorn #3 Thread

Jstock12 · Post #61 » by **Jstock12** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 5:56 pm

I love Jokic, but please don't kid yourselves into thinking he's a better prospect than Porzingis. Jokic only plays 1 side of the court and is being very flashy doing it. KP is a two-way player. You won't need to hide him on defense in his prime. Jokic on the other hand...

ChaosHamster · Post #62 » by **ChaosHamster** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 5:58 pm

I mean, I'am constantly saying that KP isn't that good..

He is probably one of the rawest dudes out there. He is lucky he is 7'3.

Guy is JUST A JUMP SHOOTER. Nothing else, right now.. ( on offense

)

So I will say it again. To him doing what he is doing with such a undeveloped game is freaking fantastic.

That's why I'am so high on him, on his ceiling. He has so much room to improve.

thebuzzardman · Post #63 » by **thebuzzardman** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 6:01 pm

Newyorknick94 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Yankeeknickfan wrote:KP had a decent 4th as the go to guy.

So in a game way out of hand, where the Lakers were probably playing their bench ( I shut this mess off after the first half), KP got to take a lot of shots and managed to break double figures?

And this is different from how when a bad player puts up stats on a bad team how?

I mean, I'm exaggerating, but did he actually look ok or just got to take more shots?

Looked more comfortable without rose/Melo got more touches knocked down some open looks kp needs some one to find him while he's open with the starters its Roses turn then Melos turn then Kp but they give him the ball at the three point line and expect him to be able to drive to the rim. But with the bench everyone moves and everyone looks for the open man.

Yeah, pretty much what happens in other games.

Some of this is on the coach, but a lot of basketball seems to be that there is maybe a handful of coaches in the league that can put an imprint on a team/overcome player tendencies in a significant way.

Hornacek has been not that good, but I'm willing to stick it out to see what the team looks like minus Rose and Melo (yes, I know a big talent dip, especially Melo) where guys who are more naturally wired (and/or younger, more malleable) to his style are on the team.

edit* - this is on the coach and somewhat KP - KP seems to be being used a little too often to facilitate spreading the floor for Melo. It's such a waste, in spite of the fact that Melo is clearly the best scorer.

thebuzzardman · Post #64 » by **thebuzzardman** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 6:02 pm

Jstock12 wrote:I love Jokic, but please don't kid yourselves into thinking he's a better prospect than Porzingis. Jokic only plays 1 side of the court and is being very flashy doing it. KP is a two-way player. You won't need to hide him on defense in his prime. Jokic on the other hand...

He seemed decent enough on D in clips. On the other hand...clips.

I'll have to catch some more full Nuggets games. I saw one and bad D didn't jump out, but that's a small sample

ensergiog · Post #65 » by **ensergiog** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 6:04 pm

Why is his ceiling so high? Why is it higher than Towns or Jokic, who have shown the ability to put pieces together of advanced offensive games, while KP struggles to with nearly all facets outside of hitting open 3's and coming off screens to hit open mid range jumpers? Every 10 games or so he flashes a crossover, hits a dream shake or makes nice running hooks around the basket, or even "gasp", a play where he's posting up and for whatever reason isn't bodied away (like 99% of the other times) and he makes a nice fundamental bankshot. It's year 2 and he's shown no greater inclination or ability to make those moves than year 1. I'm not sure I can totally buy the "ceiling is higher than everyone" argument as readily anymore.

I think that his height alone make him a better asset. That being said, could be a problem for injuries or perimeter defense.

My point is that Porzingis has been playing bad and need to prove that can overcome the difficulties, but it is needed a good organization too. I agree with you that is necessary look at him critically, stop the unicorn thing and develop his great potential. It needs work and cojones to fulfill a ceiling, and he and the Knicks must work very hard in order to don't make him another knick's wonder that doesn't make it (Lin, Fields, Shumpert, Grant, etc...), or another great potential guy that doesn't make it (Sampson, Coleman, Webber, etc...)

Jstock12 · Post #66 » by **Jstock12** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 6:05 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Jstock12 wrote:I love Jokic, but please don't kid yourselves into thinking he's a better prospect than Porzingis. Jokic only plays 1 side of the court and is being very flashy doing it. KP is a two-way player. You won't need to hide him on defense in his prime. Jokic on the other hand...

He seemed decent enough on D in clips. On the other hand...clips.

I'll have to catch some more full Nuggets games. I saw one and bad D didn't jump out, but that's a small sample

The lack of athleticism isn't even his main problem. It's that he lacks awareness on the defensive end. It's quite strange given how he has such a high offensive IQ. Similar to Harden.

ensergiog · Post #67 » by **ensergiog** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 6:07 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Jstock12 wrote:I love Jokic, but please don't kid yourselves into thinking he's a better prospect than Porzingis. Jokic only plays 1 side of the court and is being very flashy doing it. KP is a two-way player. You won't need to hide him on defense in his prime. Jokic on the other hand...

He seemed decent enough on D in clips. On the other hand...clips.

I'll have to catch some more full Nuggets games. I saw one and bad D didn't jump out, but that's a small sample

Jokic is the real deal. His defense, limited by his speed is not bad. In this moment Jokic is a much better two way player than KP.

Jstock12 · Post #68 » by **Jstock12** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 6:14 pm

ensergiog wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Jstock12 wrote:I love Jokic, but please don't kid yourselves into thinking he's a better prospect than Porzingis. Jokic only plays 1 side of the court and is being very flashy doing it. KP is a two-way player. You won't need to hide him on defense in his prime. Jokic on the other hand...

He seemed decent enough on D in clips. On the other hand...clips.

I'll have to catch some more full Nuggets games. I saw one and bad D didn't jump out, but that's a small sample

Jokic is the real deal. His defense, limited by his speed is not bad. In this moment Jokic is a much better two way player than KP.

NO. Jokic is a much better offensive player. Please don't call him a two-way player. He's a liability on defense.

Handledatruth · Post #69 » by **Handledatruth** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 6:19 pm

Melo hasn't even been traded yet and we already dumping on the next star KP. Geez..Knick fans...We deserve a team full of role players...

BKAY · Post #70 » by **BKAY** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 6:21 pm

ensergiog wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Jstock12 wrote:I love Jokic, but please don't kid yourselves into thinking he's a better prospect than Porzingis. Jokic only plays 1 side of the court and is being very flashy doing it. KP is a two-way player. You won't need to hide him on defense in his prime. Jokic on the other hand...

He seemed decent enough on D in clips. On the other hand...clips.

I'll have to catch some more full Nuggets games. I saw one and bad D didn't jump out, but that's a small sample

Jokic is the real deal. His defense, limited by his speed is not bad. In this moment Jokic is a much better two way player than KP.

KP is currently the better two way player. Although, the Jokic sucks at d narrative is a little overblown. Hes 21 years old and it always takes years for Bigs to get it together on that end. Just like Willy, I expect Jokic to get better on that end on the ball.

Newyorknick94 · Post #71 » by **Newyorknick94** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 6:22 pm

Handledatruth wrote:Melo hasn't even been traded yet and we already dumping on the next star KP. Geez..Knick fans...We deserve a team full of role players...

Team of role players would probably be better than the team we have now

NYKAL · Post #72 » by **NYKAL** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 6:22 pm

KnicksGod wrote:My take on things – KP is probably not as good as our wildest dreams. He seems soft and mentally somewhat out of it. However, he has the worst two guys to play with in Melo and Rose, and no competent PG whatsoever. He never gets an easy look. Still that’s a partial excuse and I think you have to think his ceiling is lower than great.

KP could end up being a really good 2nd or 3rd guy. But if the Knicks could draft a really good young PG, then we can really see what KP is or is not capable of. Guillermo also does a lot of the things that seem like weaknesses for him, too, so hopefully he can play 4 next season.

If they get rid of Melo, or even if they don’t, they’ll suck again next year. So you’ll have KP, a point from this draft, and another tank for a wing scorer.

Then you at least have a shot to grow with that kind of core.

But while it sounds like a rationalization, because it is disappointing to see KP look kind of "busty" at times -- there is a lot of truth to the fact that there are drawbacks to a guy being an Alpha scorer. We may be better off having him score 16-18 PPG and play D than having him be the centerpiece of the offense and all the energy that is required of that kind of player. Let him be well-rounded and let someone else carry more of the offensive load. There is a lot of value to that kind of player, especially one so big, and KP shouldn't have to think that he's either going to break 22-24 PPG or not be a star. Hell no. And with that lesser pressure, he'll perform better.

In theory, Melo works to take that pressure off KP but in reality, Melo stops ball movement and he plays the same way every game. Plus most of all, he's aging. It's time to start a new chapter.

it's something I'm starting to think myself (posed it earlier). KP may not be a franchise level talent we all hoped he would be. Doesn't seem to have that "IT" factor necessary to carry a franchise. I don't see him making anyone around him better (that might be too much to ask from someone so young).

He doesn't have a "take over" mentality at all. He might just be TOO team oriented to be THAT dude. At the same time, a Franchise talent would Love to have someone like KP to play alongside. He could likely be an awesome Pippen.

E-Balla · Post #73 » by **E-Balla** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 6:37 pm

Greenie wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
Knicksfan20 wrote:Dingis Zingis needs to get his **** together. 2nd year or not...A lot of 2nd year/young big men are out playing him.

Towns can't defend a chair and Okafor is injured and trapped in the Embiid show. Myles and Jokic are outplaying KP but screw comparing him to other 2nd year bigs we can compare him to his rookie season. He was noticeably better last year defensively. Horny needs to smack him and tell him to rededicate himself to defense. That unicorn **** must've got to his head or something because last year I saw way more effort.

Towns blocks shots too ya know...
His defense is just like KP's if you ask me. He's a bad defensive player that can swat a few shots.

You're bugging if you think they're close on that end. Towns is atrocious. KP is above average and he was good last year. Just blocking shots isn't enough.

NYKAL · Post #74 » by **NYKAL** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 7:29 pm

^lets be fair to Towns now. KP might have him a bit on the defense end but, Towns is superior and far more consistent on the offensive side.

waya · Post #75 » by **waya** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 7:59 pm

Rim-protection:

Yankeeknickfan · Post #76 » by **Yankeeknickfan** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 8:30 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Yankeeknickfan wrote:KP had a decent 4th as the go to guy.

So in a game way out of hand, where the Lakers were probably playing their bench ( I shut this mess off after the first half), KP got to take a lot of shots and managed to break double figures?

And this is different from how when a bad player puts up stats on a bad team how?

I mean, I'm exaggerating, but did he actually look ok or just got to take more shots?

he was 3-5. I probably could've worded it better, but you know what I mean. He looked good when they weren't looking him off, he also did his part by not just catching and shooting.

TruthBeTold · Post #77 » by **TruthBeTold** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 8:35 pm

Right now I'm not worried about KP. For some reason, after I joined team tank, KP stopped averaging 20 ppg. I don't want to discuss KP's problems now for obvious reason. I'll wait until the season is over. I just want Melo gone asap.

Trav_NYK · Post #78 » by **Trav_NYK** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 8:42 pm

I can't wait for KP to start working down low in the post. This summer he needs to get to work, im tired of seeing him get pushed around and settling for the long jump... even tho his jumper is wet lol

Yankeeknickfan · Post #79 » by **Yankeeknickfan** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 8:42 pm

R-E-L-A-X

Relax

KP is going to be ok

Yankeeknickfan · Post #80 » by **Yankeeknickfan** » Tue Feb 7, 2017 8:44 pm

Trav_NYK wrote:I can't wait for KP to start working down low in the post. This summer he needs to get to work, im tired of seeing him get pushed around and settling for the long jump... even tho his jumper is wet lol

Even if he develops a post game, his jumper still has to stay wet

That's why we drafted him in the first place