OT: MJ or LeBron? Who is the GOAT?

[GONYK]

It's a silly debate, but I will throw in my 2c anyway.

Jordan. Easily.

The only thing Bron has over Jordan is stats.

Jordan did his thing in an era of less spacing, way less 3 pt shooting, and significantly more physicality.

Jordan was also entirely capable of putting up the gaudy stats that Lebron does. He's every bit the all-around player.

Even without any of that though, Jordan is better simply because of his competitive fire. It dwarfs Bron's.

Sounds like the 90s would fit Lebrons play style even more. Lebron would have dominated the 80s-90s as well.

I don't agree. Lebron thrives in space. There was much less of it, people would be able to be more physical, and there would be legit big men waiting for him at the rim.

He would have found ways to adjust, but I don't think that style of play is better for him.

[Knicksfan20]

It's a silly debate, but I will throw in my 2c anyway.

Jordan. Easily.

The only thing Bron has over Jordan is stats.

Jordan did his thing in an era of less spacing, way less 3 pt shooting, and significantly more physicality.

Jordan was also entirely capable of putting up the gaudy stats that Lebron does. He's every bit the all-around player.

Even without any of that though, Jordan is better simply because of his competitive fire. It dwarfs Bron's.

Sounds like the 90s would fit Lebrons play style even more. Lebron would have dominated the 80s-90s as well.

I don't agree. Lebron thrives in space. There was much less of it, people would be able to be more physical, and there would be legit big men waiting for him at the rim.

He would have found ways to adjust, but I don't think that style of play is better for him.

Cmon now. It goes both ways. If Lebron was allowed to be more physical , he would dominate just as much if not more then he is now. Lebron in his prime was a great defender. Imagine if he could be as physical as as it was allowed to be in the early 90s.

You can have a preference, but you can’t say it isn’t even close.

[draftbarnes]

MJ.

If Lebron loses in the finals for a 6th time I don’t even want to even hear about it anymore. Stop making the comparison. If he wins we can discuss it further

Jordan couldn't beat this warriors team with this cavs roster so that argument doesn't work

[draftbarnes]

Lebron has been a underdog in 7 of his 9 Finals

[Fury]

Lebron has been a underdog in 7 of his 9 Finals

How many times has he been an underdog in eastern conference playoff series?

[Daaaarryyl]

best player is simply a generation thing and it shows in this thread.

Nah, I was in my single digits when MJ was playing, and yet I know he's the GOAT.

Yeah, I'm not like you at all.


My dad said Kareem.


Grandfather said Russell.


Uncle said DR.J.


Me I took notes and judged based on what my eyes saw.


I watched the NBA beginning in the 80's with Magic vs Bird and made a case for MJ when he won in the 90's that he was GOAT, IMO.

I've seen Lebron for 15 years and think he's right there.



I'd never say Kareem was the best because my father told me so, or talk about something I saw as a 9 year old that changed my opinion for the rest of my life.

[Dantares]

if Bron can lead the Cavs to a game 7 against the W's with this trash roster then I might consider putting him on the same level as MJ.

[DOT]

Sounds like the 90s would fit Lebrons play style even more. Lebron would have dominated the 80s-90s as well.

I don't agree. Lebron thrives in space. There was much less of it, people would be able to be more physical, and there would be legit big men waiting for him at the rim.

He would have found ways to adjust, but I don't think that style of play is better for him.

Cmon now. It goes both ways. If Lebron was allowed to be more physical , he would dominate just as much if not more then he is now. Lebron in his prime was a great defender. Imagine if he could be as physical as as it was allowed to be in the early 90s.

You can have a preference, but you can’t say it isn’t even close.

i mean, when you think about it, both lebron and mj were perfect players for their times

(just talking about in their primes here) lebron is the ultimate positionless player, can guard pretty much any position (with some exceptions, he isn't gonna lockdown like a rose or a cousins for a full game), can score, handle the ball, and has great vision

mj is the ultimate 1 on 1 player. no matter what you do to guard him, he's gonna score on you in every way possible, and on the other end he's a better individual defender than lebron, but is more limited to guards and smaller wings

it's kinda pointless to even make an argument either way, that's why i don't really even try to compare them now

[Daaaarryyl]

I don't agree. Lebron thrives in space. There was much less of it, people would be able to be more physical, and there would be legit big men waiting for him at the rim.

He would have found ways to adjust, but I don't think that style of play is better for him.

Cmon now. It goes both ways. If Lebron was allowed to be more physical , he would dominate just as much if not more then he is now. Lebron in his prime was a great defender. Imagine if he could be as physical as as it was allowed to be in the early 90s.

You can have a preference, but you can’t say it isn’t even close.

i mean, when you think about it, both lebron and mj were perfect players for their times

(just talking about in their primes here) lebron is the ultimate positionless player, can guard pretty much any position (with some exceptions, he isn't gonna lockdown like a rose or a cousins for a full game), can score, handle the ball, and has great vision

mj is the ultimate 1 on 1 player. no matter what you do to guard him, he's gonna score on you in every way possible, and on the other end he's a better individual defender than lebron, but is more limited to guards and smaller wings

it's kinda pointless to even make an argument either way, that's why i don't really even try to compare them now

Good post.

[spree8]

Sounds like the 90s would fit Lebrons play style even more. Lebron would have dominated the 80s-90s as well.

I don't agree. Lebron thrives in space. There was much less of it, people would be able to be more physical, and there would be legit big men waiting for him at the rim.

He would have found ways to adjust, but I don't think that style of play is better for him.

Cmon now. It goes both ways. If Lebron was allowed to be more physical , he would dominate just as much if not more then he is now. Lebron in his prime was a great defender. Imagine if he could be as physical as as it was allowed to be in the early 90s.

You can have a preference, but you can’t say it isn’t even close.

No... Lebron is weak mentally. You can break him by being physical. It doesn’t work both ways. MJ loved a fight.

[nykfan42]

It's a silly debate, but I will throw in my 2c anyway.

Jordan. Easily.

The only thing Bron has over Jordan is stats.

Jordan did his thing in an era of less spacing, way less 3 pt shooting, and significantly more physicality.

Jordan was also entirely capable of putting up the gaudy stats that Lebron does. He's every bit the all-around player.

Even without any of that though, Jordan is better simply because of his competitive fire. It dwarfs Bron's.

Sounds like the 90s would fit Lebrons play style even more. Lebron would have dominated the 80s-90s as well.

I don't agree. Lebron thrives in space. There was much less of it, people would be able to be more physical, and there would be legit big men waiting for him at the rim.

He would have found ways to adjust, but I don't think that style of play is better for him.

Try doing this in the 90's. Oakley would clothesline this softee.

[spree8]

people bringing up lebron playing with wade/bosh LOL

jordan played with pippen, rodman, kukoc ... players who were excellent players. lets not make as if it jordan had to carry his team on his back like lebron.

Rodman was 34, and Kukoc was never even an All-Star

Kukoc was a solid player but overrated IMO, so I agree there.


But Rodman was a STUD when he wanted to play (which he did playing with MJ).


A STUD. 34 or whatever, his insane rebounding numbers HURT him IMO because they seemed to overshadow the defense he played.


Pippen was an awesome player and would have been an all time underrated guy had he not won championships with one of the biggest stars in the history of pro sports.

He could play PG, like legit, could start the break, facilitate, defend, and then he could defend a big and score from inside and out.

And when I say "defend" I mean defensive player of the year quality.


MJ had some nice help 2 to 4 on the roster. After that, yeah the roster was either overrated (Kukoc, Kerr) or had decent but unspectacular role players (Harper/BJ/Grant/Cartwright).



Lebron with a Pippen and a Rodman plus the overrated types I mentioned plus role types wins a few championships easily IMO.

You know that Scottie wouldn’t have been as good as he was without Michael pushing him as much as he did right? Dude really helped him become the player he was.

Also, Wade > Pippen hands down. Bosh you could say was > or = 34-36 year old Rodman. And they played in a much softer NBA more conducive to their games, and lost to old and weak teams in the Finals.

[nykfan42]

Lebron has been a underdog in 7 of his 9 Finals

Is it ironic that he's in the GOAT conversation knowing this?

[GONYK]

Sounds like the 90s would fit Lebrons play style even more. Lebron would have dominated the 80s-90s as well.

I don't agree. Lebron thrives in space. There was much less of it, people would be able to be more physical, and there would be legit big men waiting for him at the rim.

He would have found ways to adjust, but I don't think that style of play is better for him.

Cmon now. It goes both ways. If Lebron was allowed to be more physical , he would dominate just as much if not more then he is now. Lebron in his prime was a great defender. Imagine if he could be as physical as as it was allowed to be in the early 90s.

You can have a preference, but you can’t say it isn’t even close.

Disagree. Most of LeBron's effectiveness comes from being bigger and people not being able to really get physical with him, not with him being overly physical himself.

Lebron isn't Oakley, and Oak would have tested Lebron plenty.

[blueNorange]

Lebron isn't Oakley, and Oak would have tested Lebron plenty.

lebron would've dunked on oakley every single time, and oakley wouldn't do anything about it other than trying to start a fight because he got his manhood card revoked.

[Daaaarryyl]

Rodman was 34, and Kukoc was never even an All-Star

Kukoc was a solid player but overrated IMO, so I agree there.


But Rodman was a STUD when he wanted to play (which he did playing with MJ).


A STUD. 34 or whatever, his insane rebounding numbers HURT him IMO because they seemed to overshadow the defense he played.


Pippen was an awesome player and would have been an all time underrated guy had he not won championships with one of the biggest stars in the history of pro sports.

He could play PG, like legit, could start the break, facilitate, defend, and then he could defend a big and score from inside and out.

And when I say "defend" I mean defensive player of the year quality.


MJ had some nice help 2 to 4 on the roster. After that, yeah the roster was either overrated (Kukoc, Kerr) or had decent but unspectacular role players (Harper/BJ/Grant/Cartwright).



Lebron with a Pippen and a Rodman plus the overrated types I mentioned plus role types wins a few championships easily IMO.

You know that Scottie wouldn’t have been as good as he was without Michael pushing him as much as he did right? Dude really helped him become the player he was.

Also, Wade > Pippen hands down. Bosh you could say was > or = 34-36 year old Rodman. And they played in a much softer NBA more conducive to their games, and lost to old and weak teams in the Finals.

-How a player becomes great is irrelevant IMO.


Was he great?


Did Lebron help elevate Kyrie Irving's game?




-Pippen and Wade is a good argument. Me I vote Pippen.

Hands down????


-Bosh and Rodman where just different players.


- Yes, the team's Jordan beat where old and weak (30-somethings Jazz, the old ass post-dynasty Lakers and the meh Seattle Sonics), but I don't fault MJ for beating whoever was there to play for the championship.

[blueNorange]

remember when junk yard dog got dunked up by a young melo and then became jerome williams right after?

that's how lebron would've treated oakley.

[DOT]

i just want to see if lebron can break the scoring record

dude has a legit chance to get 40k points, 10k rebounds, 10k assists

[Greenie]

I don't know, but I think people who say its not even close - are wrong.

Jordan would take Bron’s lunch money and Broney poo would allow it.

Jordan wanted all the smoke. LeBron doesn’t.

[spree8]

Kukoc was a solid player but overrated IMO, so I agree there.


But Rodman was a STUD when he wanted to play (which he did playing with MJ).


A STUD. 34 or whatever, his insane rebounding numbers HURT him IMO because they seemed to overshadow the defense he played.


Pippen was an awesome player and would have been an all time underrated guy had he not won championships with one of the biggest stars in the history of pro sports.

He could play PG, like legit, could start the break, facilitate, defend, and then he could defend a big and score from inside and out.

And when I say "defend" I mean defensive player of the year quality.


MJ had some nice help 2 to 4 on the roster. After that, yeah the roster was either overrated (Kukoc, Kerr) or had decent but unspectacular role players (Harper/BJ/Grant/Cartwright).



Lebron with a Pippen and a Rodman plus the overrated types I mentioned plus role types wins a few championships easily IMO.

You know that Scottie wouldn’t have been as good as he was without Michael pushing him as much as he did right? Dude really helped him become the player he was.

Also, Wade > Pippen hands down. Bosh you could say was > or = 34-36 year old Rodman. And they played in a much softer NBA more conducive to their games, and lost to old and weak teams in the Finals.

-How a player becomes great is irrelevant IMO.


Was he great?


Did Lebron help elevate Kyrie Irving's game?




-Pippen and Wade is a good argument. Me I vote Pippen.

Hands down????


-Bosh and Rodman where just different players.


- Yes, the team's Jordan beat where old and weak (30-somethings Jazz, the old ass post-dynasty Lakers and the meh Seattle Sonics), but I don't fault MJ for beating whoever was there to play for the championship.

What??? How is the fact that MJ helped Scottie become as good as he was irrelevant? When you’re saying Lebron with Pippen and Rodman could’ve won easily, it’s totally relevant because when you’re putting Lebron in Michael’s place, so you need to ask yourself if he could do the same for Scottie. And the fact that Kyrie bounced from the team (he didn’t really elevate Kyrie either btw) is a testament to the likelihood that he wouldn’t have.


You vote Pippen over Wade in his prime? That’s crazy, but of course you’d say that to support your arguement. Check the Player Comparion Board for their top 100 all time and you’ll see Wade like 10 spots ahead of Scottie on the list... and that’s counting longevity which Wade falls short on, but in terms of prime? Wade is even further ahead.


And uhhh, Jordan may have beaten an older Jazz team, but they were so much better than the Mavs or Spurs that Lebron lost to. You def forgot about the difference there.