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OT: Democratic Primary Thread

Moderators: j4remi, NoLayupRule, HerSports85, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36

Who are you voting for?

Poll ended at Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:48 pm

Joe Biden - I have no idea why, and I also forgot what year it is
18
28%
Bernie Sanders - I am an intelligent human being, and understand Sanders is our last hope and America needs him
38
58%
Tulsi Gabbard (Dropped Out) - Ringo Starr is also my favorite Beatle
9
14%
 
Total votes: 65

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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#61 » by duetta » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:14 am

For black voters, the ‘Democratic establishment’ meets in our living rooms
When the left bashes the party, it’s attacking a loose mechanism of community problem solvers.

My covert intelligence-gathering mission into the “Democratic establishment” began when I was growing up in South Carolina. My mother, a former Black Panther, didn’t believe that a black child could become a fully realized human being in the presence of whiteness, as she recently informed me, so I was home-schooled early on. Without the benefit of a formal social studies curriculum to educate me about political parties, I assumed the “Democrats” were some Illuminati-like secret society. All I knew was that in my grandmother’s house, uttering a negative word about Democrats was like blaspheming the name of Jesus or disrespecting the memory of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

That’s why, when Sen. Bernie Sanders, his surrogates and assorted pundits say the “Democratic establishment” has banded together to stop him from winning the party’s presidential nomination and united around former vice president Joe Biden, I wonder: Which Democratic establishment? For black Americans, particularly Southerners, it is not the Democratic National Committee, or the corporate donor base, or even, as the political strategist Mark McKinnon defined it during the anti-establishment presidential race of 2016: “The measles. A disease. A political disease.” The Democratic establishment is, quite simply, their community. Those who vilify it are, by proxy, impugning the people who voice their concerns and protect their families.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/black-voters-democratic-establishment/2020/03/12/59390058-6460-11ea-845d-e35b0234b136_story.html
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#62 » by Moose » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:59 am

Forget M4A. You will have to deal with lawsuits from a ton of private companies who will win. Its a govt takeover, a monopoly. And in the long run, potentially dangerous.

When I travel, I try to talk with people from across the world so I can learn about their systems. It isn't as you may think, the good and the bad (for every system including ours).

After speaking with some people and considering our own economy, population, and government...a public option that covers uninsured Americans makes the most sense. Establish that first. Get the 10 million who need it free to inexpensive coverage based on income/cost of living in the state.

Then the next step would be to have the public option compete with private companies. A lot of detail has to go into it, etc, but this is better than M4A imo and can happen asap. M4A, even if it sorta "happens", will be dragged out and could be reversed.

Focus on getting a public option. It will achieve similar or better results.

P.S. it is federal law that no public hospital that accepts a certain about of Medicare/Medicaid patients (so basically all public hospitals) can turn away someone who feels they have an emergency. That's from chest pain to a woman being in labor. And they don't have to pay for anything. The hospital must determine if it is an emergency (includes testing if necessary) and take care of that person. They cant be turned away. Again, they don't pay, we pay through taxes. This includes undocumented immigrants and those with zero insurance.

As for chronic illness, such as diabetes where you need ongoing meds, I cant say how that works under this law.
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#63 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:39 pm

dakomish23 wrote:If Biden wins, I hope for extremely progressive policy to be pushed on at least healthcare and climate change.

I just can’t do another 4 more years with these folks trying to drag this country back to the 50’s.


The roll-backs on 50 years of gains, the stacking of the courts with low quality stormtroopers, the gutting of environmental protections, pushing out career non-partisan civil servants from every critical function of government to be replaced with low IQ loyalists and grifters, all of these things are damage that takes years to repair, if ever.

It is hard to go forwards with more progressive agendas if you lose everything good that works in government.

This is why the fate of the country depends on sweeping these rogues out of office, not just Trump, but the GOP mafia majorities.

I do think good legislation will occur simultaneously with the reconstruction process the following 8 years will require to undo the damage, but we are definitely screwed if we don't have a massive regime change now.

That's why everyone with any common sense needs to back the nominee. You can't ask for perfection at a time when anything less than victory means the end of our civilization. That's what I feel 4 more years of these bastards means for all of our futures, especially younger folks. This is the Civil War II. We lose, we can kiss our rights, our freedoms and our drinkable water goodbye.
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#64 » by Fat Kat » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:48 pm

duetta wrote:
For black voters, the ‘Democratic establishment’ meets in our living rooms
When the left bashes the party, it’s attacking a loose mechanism of community problem solvers.

My covert intelligence-gathering mission into the “Democratic establishment” began when I was growing up in South Carolina. My mother, a former Black Panther, didn’t believe that a black child could become a fully realized human being in the presence of whiteness, as she recently informed me, so I was home-schooled early on. Without the benefit of a formal social studies curriculum to educate me about political parties, I assumed the “Democrats” were some Illuminati-like secret society. All I knew was that in my grandmother’s house, uttering a negative word about Democrats was like blaspheming the name of Jesus or disrespecting the memory of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

That’s why, when Sen. Bernie Sanders, his surrogates and assorted pundits say the “Democratic establishment” has banded together to stop him from winning the party’s presidential nomination and united around former vice president Joe Biden, I wonder: Which Democratic establishment? For black Americans, particularly Southerners, it is not the Democratic National Committee, or the corporate donor base, or even, as the political strategist Mark McKinnon defined it during the anti-establishment presidential race of 2016: “The measles. A disease. A political disease.” The Democratic establishment is, quite simply, their community. Those who vilify it are, by proxy, impugning the people who voice their concerns and protect their families.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/black-voters-democratic-establishment/2020/03/12/59390058-6460-11ea-845d-e35b0234b136_story.html


Bernie lost the election when black folks in Virginia and South Carolina decided to vote against their own self interest. We unfortunately are led by our “community leaders” and not our own self interest. Perhaps Bernie isn’t religious enough for these tap dancing preachers. Bernie’s platform benefits black people more than any candidate in history outside of Jesse Jackson.

Biden on the other hand, wrote many of the 1986 drug laws, and a lot of the 1994 crime bill that caused irreparable damage to the black community. He’s still arguing against weed legalization. He still has the same “war on drugs” mentality he’s always had. Apparently his lip service and Obama bump is enough for folks to forget about that.

Having said that, I’ll vote for the bastard because the alternative is far more damaging.
All comments made by Fat Kat are given as opinion, which may or may not be derived from facts, and not made to personally attack anyone on Realgm. All rights reserved.®
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#65 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:31 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
duetta wrote:
For black voters, the ‘Democratic establishment’ meets in our living rooms
When the left bashes the party, it’s attacking a loose mechanism of community problem solvers.

My covert intelligence-gathering mission into the “Democratic establishment” began when I was growing up in South Carolina. My mother, a former Black Panther, didn’t believe that a black child could become a fully realized human being in the presence of whiteness, as she recently informed me, so I was home-schooled early on. Without the benefit of a formal social studies curriculum to educate me about political parties, I assumed the “Democrats” were some Illuminati-like secret society. All I knew was that in my grandmother’s house, uttering a negative word about Democrats was like blaspheming the name of Jesus or disrespecting the memory of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

That’s why, when Sen. Bernie Sanders, his surrogates and assorted pundits say the “Democratic establishment” has banded together to stop him from winning the party’s presidential nomination and united around former vice president Joe Biden, I wonder: Which Democratic establishment? For black Americans, particularly Southerners, it is not the Democratic National Committee, or the corporate donor base, or even, as the political strategist Mark McKinnon defined it during the anti-establishment presidential race of 2016: “The measles. A disease. A political disease.” The Democratic establishment is, quite simply, their community. Those who vilify it are, by proxy, impugning the people who voice their concerns and protect their families.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/black-voters-democratic-establishment/2020/03/12/59390058-6460-11ea-845d-e35b0234b136_story.html


Bernie lost the election when black folks in Virginia and South Carolina decided to vote against their own self interest. We unfortunately are led by our “community leaders” and not our own self interest. Perhaps Bernie isn’t religious enough for these tap dancing preachers. Bernie’s platform benefits black people more than any candidate in history outside of Jesse Jackson.

Biden on the other hand, wrote many of the 1986 drug laws, and a lot of the 1994 crime bill that caused irreparable damage to the black community. He’s still arguing against weed legalization. He still has the same “war on drugs” mentality he’s always had. Apparently his lip service and Obama bump is enough for folks to forget about that.

Having said that, I’ll vote for the bastard because the alternative is far more damaging.


I understand the antipathy towards Neoliberal status quo Joe, I do.

But this is all I'm asking for, a recognition that the alternative is a Thelma and Louise drive right off the cliff into oblivion. Every person who is not an identifiably white person of European origins will be at grave risk if these Nazis stay in power. Their agenda is driven by a fear of the loss of white privilege. It doesn't matter if the poor white Southerner who supports them doesn't reap those gains, it is a perceived threat in their minds that the demographic shift in the country will cause them to permanently lose power.

I got my friend the Trumper to finally admit that White Protectionism is the core of their movement. It took 18 months for me to get him to the point of admitting that, but once he did he was quite unapologetic about it, because in his words "We founded this country."

To me that's fundamentally insane if he believes this country was not founded on the backs of other races that suffered greatly, but he just doesn't see it that way. To him, the N word is "just a word" and when I try to say there is a deep historical memory that makes it more than just a word, he tries to lecture me about the great suffering of the Irish as a counterpoint.

These are the people we're dealing with if they retain power. He'll help me if I need help on a personal level, but on the macro level he's probably OK with any kind of evil these people will perpetrate on our society. That's how Nazis become Nazis. They are consolidating their grip on power and once a smarter one than Trump is at the head of the table, we're really dead since they are hell bent on making the executive branch the only power left in our system.

And he's fairly educated too. Think of all of the completely dumb ones who back him up. White fear drives these people. If we don't stop them, they will make life a living hell for non-whites and immigrants. I know Biden is vilified for his part in past legislations, but he's not a Nazi. And the party is driving him left so if we give them a mandate and a control of both branches of government in November, things will be better immediately. The major structural changes that need to be worked out over the next 10-20 years require this stability now to have a chance of ever happening. Without a preservation of checks and balances now, we'll never get a chance to push more progressive legislation anyway.
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#66 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:01 pm

Debate is tonight at 8 PM

Live streamed at CNN.com
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#67 » by BKlutch » Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:46 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
Stannis wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:I do hope the Democrats clean up the voting situation. Make it a holiday. Crack down on voter suppression tactics. The GOP is basically a criminal organization at this point the way they try to rig elections.


It's clear the GOP does not want a Voter Holiday. I believe the reasoning was because there are already too many federal holidays. But you can just replace Columbus day with Voter day.

Democrats were even iffy. I forgot the reasoning.

Anyways, this will also get citizens more involved in the smaller elections, not just primaries and general elections. It's amazing how a small percentage of people vote for our leaders. I'm guilty myself.

Mike Bloomberg should start spending his money on voter registration ads. That help a lot.


Cast Your Vote, Get a Gift Card to Denny's!

So funny but so true. I'd even go further - Pay voters $500 each.
.

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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#68 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:22 pm

BKlutch wrote:On a serious note, a lot of what Bernie says seems to be good for what's ailing the nation (politically, not discussing disease here). The big negative is he comes across as very dogmatic and he isn't best at getting things done with his colleagues. So would Congress ever pass any of his programs?

Joe Biden has a long history of being a good guy but having made mistakes. He's a very nice guy and as for his policies, I can say ... oh could he come to dinner? That's nice.

He does have good political connections and might be viewed by the majority as someone who could pull the country back from the precipice.

Either one would at least prevent our citizens from committing mass suicide by jumping over the cliff into a sea of orange goo.


Unlike Obama, Bernie isn’t going to negotiate against his own policies now before the negotiations have even began. I think that’s smart. Our backs are against the wall on so many crucial issues right now. We don’t have much time on them.
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#69 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:03 pm

dakomish23 wrote:If Biden wins, I hope for extremely progressive policy to be pushed on at least healthcare and climate change.

I just can’t do another 4 more years with these folks trying to drag this country back to the 50’s.


And infrastructure which goes hand and hand with climate change.
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#70 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:31 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
BKlutch wrote:On a serious note, a lot of what Bernie says seems to be good for what's ailing the nation (politically, not discussing disease here). The big negative is he comes across as very dogmatic and he isn't best at getting things done with his colleagues. So would Congress ever pass any of his programs?

Joe Biden has a long history of being a good guy but having made mistakes. He's a very nice guy and as for his policies, I can say ... oh could he come to dinner? That's nice.

He does have good political connections and might be viewed by the majority as someone who could pull the country back from the precipice.

Either one would at least prevent our citizens from committing mass suicide by jumping over the cliff into a sea of orange goo.


Unlike Obama, Bernie isn’t going to negotiate against his own policies now before the negotiations have even began. I think that’s smart. Our backs are against the wall on so many crucial issues right now. We don’t have much time on them.


Negotiations with whom?
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#71 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:03 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
BKlutch wrote:On a serious note, a lot of what Bernie says seems to be good for what's ailing the nation (politically, not discussing disease here). The big negative is he comes across as very dogmatic and he isn't best at getting things done with his colleagues. So would Congress ever pass any of his programs?

Joe Biden has a long history of being a good guy but having made mistakes. He's a very nice guy and as for his policies, I can say ... oh could he come to dinner? That's nice.

He does have good political connections and might be viewed by the majority as someone who could pull the country back from the precipice.

Either one would at least prevent our citizens from committing mass suicide by jumping over the cliff into a sea of orange goo.


Unlike Obama, Bernie isn’t going to negotiate against his own policies now before the negotiations have even began. I think that’s smart. Our backs are against the wall on so many crucial issues right now. We don’t have much time on them.


Negotiations with whom?


With Congress after he's electec POTUS

Everybody has to drink for every Biden brain fart.
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#72 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:06 am

"We have the best scientists in America"?

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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#73 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:07 am

Drink
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#74 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:49 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#75 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:59 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
Read on Twitter


I've seen all of those videos way before this debate. It was literally breathtaking to me to hear Joe deny it. Straight out lie.
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#76 » by robillionaire » Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:01 am

this country doesn't deserve a bernie sanders, we deserve to suffer. it's a tragedy to watch and know we missed this chance. makes you just want to throw up tbh
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#77 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:04 am

One, this is a great debate. I'm loving it for a number of reasons. One is that I love that there is no audience. New Rule: no more audiences. I would also go back to the League of Women Voters to take back moderating them.

I'd like to see two more of these between these two candidates.
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#78 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:05 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Read on Twitter


I've seen all of those videos way before this debate. It was literally breathtaking to me to hear Joe deny it. Straight out lie.

Yep I knew about this before the debate as well. Bernie is destroying him. If Biden is the nominee then we are screwed. Trump will be re elected unfortunately.
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#79 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:05 am

robillionaire wrote:this country doesn't deserve a bernie sanders, we deserve to suffer. it's a tragedy to watch and know we missed this chance. makes you just want to throw up tbh


We're not even at halftime of this primary. Joe v. Bernie is just getting started.
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Re: OT: Democratic Primary Thread 

Post#80 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:14 am

Is that Eartha Kitt's daughter moderating the debate? She's very strict.

Edit: That gives me an idea ... let's have a very smart dominatrix moderate the debate while the candidates are bound to a rack. If she doesn't like a response, she straps them with a ball gag.
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