OT: Ahmaud Arbery murdered in Georgia - DA Indicted!!! (Update p. 11))

[nedleeds]

Stand your ground doesn't apply here in the slightest. They weren't on their ground a) it was a public road. They weren't protecting their property b) he had nothing on him and they approached him ... he would have been happy to continue running.

Even if you rob my house in Georgia, I chase you out on the street I have lost the right to shoot you unless you are actively threatening me (or at least running towards me).

If I catch you in my home, I have the legal right to kill you (in castle doctrine, syg states). This is so far from that, did the property even belong to these two that he was allegedly trespassing on?

[K_ick_God]

Stand your ground doesn't apply here in the slightest. They weren't on their ground a) it was a public road. They weren't protecting their property b) he had nothing on him and they approached him ... he would have been happy to continue running.

Even if you rob my house in Georgia, I chase you out on the street I have lost the right to shoot you unless you are actively threatening me (or at least running towards me).

If I catch you in my home, I have the legal right to kill you (in castle doctrine, syg states). This is so far from that, did the property even belong to these two that he was allegedly trespassing on?

Yeah I don't even know what is going on here as far as laws. But there is some law that says you can make a citizen's arrest apparently. So that may mean basically the same thing -- that you can pursue someone you think is guilty. Apparently, but not sure of what laws are involved. Yeah it's not stand your ground, but some variation that is maybe even worse.

[Fat Kat]

If all of Black America use the 2nd Amendment, that will probably be the day that amendment is abolished
See: Mulford Act of 1967

Put into place by good ol' Ronnie Reagan and even promoted by the NRA once the Black Panthers started open carrying

That act still in effect?

So let me get this straight, there's no open carry in California because black people started carrying guns?

Yes. That is correct

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

[Jeffrey]

I read an idiotic comment from a Trump Supporter (yes he is a MAGA because his twitter was basically that)... saying how the jogger was aggressively running to the gunmen that was aiming at him. Like no sh.it you fcking turd, what the fck would you do if those gunmen were calling you out and aiming the gun at you while you're jogging.

The mental gymnastic that these type of ppl have is amazing.

[nedleeds]

[gfycat][/gfycat]

So I guess we should go back to separate but equal?

S but E was about the government denying access to services. People were being denied equal protection under the law. It didn't legislate that hating people and not wanting to sell them a wedding cake was a crime.

So...going back to your point, about legislating hate, you don't think it should be a crime to deny services based on race?

Depends on the 'vendor'. Any entity that is under federal regulation, or has a regulatory concern, or takes federal money should be subject to criminal penalties for denying service based on ethnic background, height, sex, religious beliefs or political beliefs. There's alot to unpack but some examples would be

- utilities
- any actual state, local or federal service (school, licensing, library, park, etc.)
- any other schools that accept any form of government financial aid (which are almost all)
- banks, lenders and brokerages that accept any form of government aid (which are all, because FDIC is pervasive)

Any other business I would lean towards them operating however they want. There's no grocery store that would survive long if they banned black people. No sporting goods store that would be able to operate by banning whites. But if a restaurant owner wants to only admit women, or only admit muslims that's their business. Subject to scrutiny and public shaming. I'm pretty libertarian on this but I think it polices itself for the most part, and I'm also OK with knowing some people just hate me and don't want to serve me, or take my money. I'm an atheist hispanic, there are hispanics who are religious who wouldn't bake me a cake for a wedding that wasn't catholic. If you want to open a gym and only allow 40 year old, left handed Korean people to join it's your **** business.

I don't impune the intent of enforcing kindness and acceptance in peoples hearts, the intent is good but there's nothing compelling in the bor that makes it law. In today's world of cell phones social media and outrage over everything the hot dog stand that only serves white people would be a short lived enterprise. At least in any way that matters.

[spree8]

Jesus Christ I wish I never clicked on that video.

Why on earth would you even try to fight off a couple rednecks with shotguns??? Damnit kid

I can't tell from the video because he camera moves away. But it looks like they were already aiming at him. I mean, the guy was in the back of the truck ready.

It looks like he we went behind the truck to hide then back around to get one of the shooters.

I'm not sure if running away would have done anything.

Who cares? He had a right to defend himself. If he felt that meant trying to get the shotgun away from a guy threatening him then so what. Running just as soon would have gotten him the buckshot in his back, not his gut.

The key aspect of this video is that it's *CLEAR* the two attackers were under *NO* danger. There is no self defense aspect to this from what we see in that video. Had they just continued to yell "We want to talk to you!" as they claim then nothing happens. He continues jogging. I think these two pieces of **** were convinced he was armed. They could just have such a deranged mindset around vigilantism that they think they have the right to "arrest" people who aren't immediately threatening life or property though, who knows.

Obviously he had the right to defend himself. Nobody is questioning that, but to even try when you have virtually zero chance to win versus running away and calling the cops? That seems like the better move.

He’s young and athletic so I’m sure he could’ve evaded them on foot hopping a fence or two while calling 911. Just seemed like the best course of action instead of what he chose. It’s a shame that he even had to make that decision tho.

I don’t see how this isn’t an open n shut murder case.

[K_ick_God]

Unbelievable letter. The prosecutor basically says that he's at fault for his own death -- and that his death is 100% legal -- because he was pushing away the gun, as shown by the "blood plume."

The video made by William Bryan clearly shows the shooting in realtime. From said video it
appears Ahmaud Arbery was running along the right side of the McMichael truck then abruptly turns 90 degrees to the left and attacks Travis McMichaelwho was standing at the front left corner ofthe truck . A brief skirmish ensues in which it appear Arbery strikes McMichael and appears to grab the shotgun andpull it from McMichael The shot is through Arbery s right hand palm which is consistent with him grabbing and pulling the shotgun at the barrel tip , the 2nd and 3rd wounds are consistentwith the struggle for the shotgun as depicted in the video , the angle of the 2nd shot with the rear of the buttstock being pushed away and down from the fight are also consistent with the upward angle of blood plume shown in the video and that McMichael
was attempting to push the gun away from Arbery while Arbery was pulling it toward himself.
The 3rd shot too appears to be in a struggle over the gun. The angle of the shots and the video show this was from the beginning or almost immediately became-- a fight over the shotgun .
Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia Law , McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself.
Just as importantly, while we know McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do notknow
who caused the firings. Arbery would only had to pull the shotgun approximately 1/ 16th to 1/8th of one inch to fire weapon himself and in the height of an altercation this is entirely
possible . Arbery s mentalhealth records & prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man .
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6916-george-barnhill-letter-to-glyn/b52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

[HarthorneWingo]

If I were a member of the Arbery family, the entire McMichael clan would be wiped off the face of the earth.

[2010]

I can't tell from the video because he camera moves away. But it looks like they were already aiming at him. I mean, the guy was in the back of the truck ready.

It looks like he we went behind the truck to hide then back around to get one of the shooters.

I'm not sure if running away would have done anything.

Who cares? He had a right to defend himself. If he felt that meant trying to get the shotgun away from a guy threatening him then so what. Running just as soon would have gotten him the buckshot in his back, not his gut.

The key aspect of this video is that it's *CLEAR* the two attackers were under *NO* danger. There is no self defense aspect to this from what we see in that video. Had they just continued to yell "We want to talk to you!" as they claim then nothing happens. He continues jogging. I think these two pieces of **** were convinced he was armed. They could just have such a deranged mindset around vigilantism that they think they have the right to "arrest" people who aren't immediately threatening life or property though, who knows.

Obviously he had the right to defend himself. Nobody is questioning that, but to even try when you have virtually zero chance to win versus running away and calling the cops? That seems like the better move.

He’s young and athletic so I’m sure he could’ve evaded them on foot hopping a fence or two while calling 911. Just seemed like the best course of action instead of what he chose. It’s a shame that he even had to make that decision tho.

I don’t see how this isn’t an open n shut murder case.

Call the cops? Really? Think about that.

[nedleeds]

I can't tell from the video because he camera moves away. But it looks like they were already aiming at him. I mean, the guy was in the back of the truck ready.

It looks like he we went behind the truck to hide then back around to get one of the shooters.

I'm not sure if running away would have done anything.

Who cares? He had a right to defend himself. If he felt that meant trying to get the shotgun away from a guy threatening him then so what. Running just as soon would have gotten him the buckshot in his back, not his gut.

The key aspect of this video is that it's *CLEAR* the two attackers were under *NO* danger. There is no self defense aspect to this from what we see in that video. Had they just continued to yell "We want to talk to you!" as they claim then nothing happens. He continues jogging. I think these two pieces of **** were convinced he was armed. They could just have such a deranged mindset around vigilantism that they think they have the right to "arrest" people who aren't immediately threatening life or property though, who knows.

Obviously he had the right to defend himself. Nobody is questioning that, but to even try when you have virtually zero chance to win versus running away and calling the cops? That seems like the better move.

He’s young and athletic so I’m sure he could’ve evaded them on foot hopping a fence or two while calling 911. Just seemed like the best course of action instead of what he chose. It’s a shame that he even had to make that decision tho.

I don’t see how this isn’t an open n shut murder case.

Yeah I see where you are coming from, but we don't know the audio situation. If they were trying to "arrest" him and telling him to lay down, or turn around or something else that would compromise him maybe he just decided in that microsecond that these guys were going to kill him. So he reacted and tried to grab the shotgun. I've been approached by people wielding weapons but I've never been ambushed by two gun wielding stalkers. Who knows how any of us would react.

[RHODEY]

I can't tell from the video because he camera moves away. But it looks like they were already aiming at him. I mean, the guy was in the back of the truck ready.

It looks like he we went behind the truck to hide then back around to get one of the shooters.

I'm not sure if running away would have done anything.

Who cares? He had a right to defend himself. If he felt that meant trying to get the shotgun away from a guy threatening him then so what. Running just as soon would have gotten him the buckshot in his back, not his gut.

The key aspect of this video is that it's *CLEAR* the two attackers were under *NO* danger. There is no self defense aspect to this from what we see in that video. Had they just continued to yell "We want to talk to you!" as they claim then nothing happens. He continues jogging. I think these two pieces of **** were convinced he was armed. They could just have such a deranged mindset around vigilantism that they think they have the right to "arrest" people who aren't immediately threatening life or property though, who knows.

Obviously he had the right to defend himself. Nobody is questioning that, but to even try when you have virtually zero chance to win versus running away and calling the cops? That seems like the better move.

He’s young and athletic so I’m sure he could’ve evaded them on foot hopping a fence or two while calling 911. Just seemed like the best course of action instead of what he chose. It’s a shame that he even had to make that decision tho. .

Maybe he realized he wouldn't be able to outrun a shotgun round aimed at his back...

But Walter Scott tried runiing and it didnt work

Watch on YouTube

[nedleeds]

Unbelievable letter. The prosecutor basically says that he's at fault for his own death -- and that his death is 100% legal -- because he was pushing away the gun, as shown by the "blood plume."

The video made by William Bryan clearly shows the shooting in realtime. From said video it
appears Ahmaud Arbery was running along the right side of the McMichael truck then abruptly turns 90 degrees to the left and attacks Travis McMichaelwho was standing at the front left corner ofthe truck . A brief skirmish ensues in which it appear Arbery strikes McMichael and appears to grab the shotgun andpull it from McMichael The shot is through Arbery s right hand palm which is consistent with him grabbing and pulling the shotgun at the barrel tip , the 2nd and 3rd wounds are consistentwith the struggle for the shotgun as depicted in the video , the angle of the 2nd shot with the rear of the buttstock being pushed away and down from the fight are also consistent with the upward angle of blood plume shown in the video and that McMichael
was attempting to push the gun away from Arbery while Arbery was pulling it toward himself.
The 3rd shot too appears to be in a struggle over the gun. The angle of the shots and the video show this was from the beginning or almost immediately became-- a fight over the shotgun .
Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia Law , McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself.
Just as importantly, while we know McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do notknow
who caused the firings. Arbery would only had to pull the shotgun approximately 1/ 16th to 1/8th of one inch to fire weapon himself and in the height of an altercation this is entirely
possible . Arbery s mentalhealth records & prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man .
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6916-george-barnhill-letter-to-glyn/b52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

This explains why the video was submitted as evidence that would exonerate the instigators. They think the video is in favor of the two guys who initiated the confrontation on a public road against another person who was unarmed and not threatening them. Totally insane.

[spree8]

Who cares? He had a right to defend himself. If he felt that meant trying to get the shotgun away from a guy threatening him then so what. Running just as soon would have gotten him the buckshot in his back, not his gut.

The key aspect of this video is that it's *CLEAR* the two attackers were under *NO* danger. There is no self defense aspect to this from what we see in that video. Had they just continued to yell "We want to talk to you!" as they claim then nothing happens. He continues jogging. I think these two pieces of **** were convinced he was armed. They could just have such a deranged mindset around vigilantism that they think they have the right to "arrest" people who aren't immediately threatening life or property though, who knows.

Obviously he had the right to defend himself. Nobody is questioning that, but to even try when you have virtually zero chance to win versus running away and calling the cops? That seems like the better move.

He’s young and athletic so I’m sure he could’ve evaded them on foot hopping a fence or two while calling 911. Just seemed like the best course of action instead of what he chose. It’s a shame that he even had to make that decision tho.

I don’t see how this isn’t an open n shut murder case.

Maybe he lost access to the speed force and realized he wouldn't be able to outrun a shotgun round aimed at his back...

I mean it wasnt like he was 50 llike Walter Scott

Watch on YouTube

Sorry but I DON'T see where you are coming from with that observation.

Hey now, I’m just going off of what we know. It was reported they “said” they were making a citizens arrest. If you run from them, the odds of them shooting are, let’s say for arguments sake, because they’re crazy rednecks, about 50/50... if you attack them... odds are 100%. How do you not see where I’m coming from? One of those ways you have a chance to not get shot.. the other... 100% even if you disarm 1 of them, there’s another there, and another in the car behind you. Please tell me how what I’m saying is even slightly offensive? Fight or flight... I’m flying in that situation.

[RHODEY]

Obviously he had the right to defend himself. Nobody is questioning that, but to even try when you have virtually zero chance to win versus running away and calling the cops? That seems like the better move.

He’s young and athletic so I’m sure he could’ve evaded them on foot hopping a fence or two while calling 911. Just seemed like the best course of action instead of what he chose. It’s a shame that he even had to make that decision tho.

I don’t see how this isn’t an open n shut murder case.

Maybe he lost access to the speed force and realized he wouldn't be able to outrun a shotgun round aimed at his back...

I mean it wasnt like he was 50 llike Walter Scott

Watch on YouTube

Sorry but I DON'T see where you are coming from with that observation.

Hey now, I’m just going off of what we know. It was reported they “said” they were making a citizens arrest. If you run from them, the odds of them shooting are, let’s say for arguments sake, because they’re crazy rednecks, about 50/50... if you attack them... odds are 100%. How do you not see where I’m coming from? One of those ways you have a chance to not get shot.. the other... 100% even if you disarm 1 of them, there’s another there, and another in the car behind you. Please tell me how what I’m saying is even slightly offensive? Fight or flight... I’m flying in that situation.

I apologize Spree, I get emotional about this stuff sometimes, not personal.

[spree8]

Who cares? He had a right to defend himself. If he felt that meant trying to get the shotgun away from a guy threatening him then so what. Running just as soon would have gotten him the buckshot in his back, not his gut.

The key aspect of this video is that it's *CLEAR* the two attackers were under *NO* danger. There is no self defense aspect to this from what we see in that video. Had they just continued to yell "We want to talk to you!" as they claim then nothing happens. He continues jogging. I think these two pieces of **** were convinced he was armed. They could just have such a deranged mindset around vigilantism that they think they have the right to "arrest" people who aren't immediately threatening life or property though, who knows.

Obviously he had the right to defend himself. Nobody is questioning that, but to even try when you have virtually zero chance to win versus running away and calling the cops? That seems like the better move.

He’s young and athletic so I’m sure he could’ve evaded them on foot hopping a fence or two while calling 911. Just seemed like the best course of action instead of what he chose. It’s a shame that he even had to make that decision tho.

I don’t see how this isn’t an open n shut murder case.

Call the cops? Really? Think about that.

Ok so then what are we saying here? The kid was doomed 100% no matter what? You don’t think there’s even a 1% chance there are decent cops that would have responded and defused the situation?

Even at a 1% chance, I’m taking it over 100% chance at getting killed for trying to fight them off. I’m running and calling the cops which has at least a chance at me surviving.

All I said was I wish the kid ran and called for help instead of facing certain doom. I get why he did it, but I think it would’ve been better to book outta there.

[RHODEY]

Obviously he had the right to defend himself. Nobody is questioning that, but to even try when you have virtually zero chance to win versus running away and calling the cops? That seems like the better move.

He’s young and athletic so I’m sure he could’ve evaded them on foot hopping a fence or two while calling 911. Just seemed like the best course of action instead of what he chose. It’s a shame that he even had to make that decision tho.

I don’t see how this isn’t an open n shut murder case.

Call the cops? Really? Think about that.

Ok so then what are we saying here? The kid was doomed 100% no matter what? You don’t think there’s even a 1% chance there are decent cops that would have responded and defused the situation?

Even at a 1% chance, I’m taking it over 100% chance at getting killed for trying to fight them off. I’m running and calling the cops which has at least a chance at me surviving.

All I said was I wish the kid ran and called for help instead of facing certain doom. I get why he did it, but I think it would’ve been better to book outta there.

Here's the thing Spree, don't you think its strange how the conversation has turned toward what the victim should or shouldn't have done , under a situation of extreme duress? If anybody's actions /motivations should be put under the microscope, it should be the shooters.

[spree8]

Call the cops? Really? Think about that.

Ok so then what are we saying here? The kid was doomed 100% no matter what? You don’t think there’s even a 1% chance there are decent cops that would have responded and defused the situation?

Even at a 1% chance, I’m taking it over 100% chance at getting killed for trying to fight them off. I’m running and calling the cops which has at least a chance at me surviving.

All I said was I wish the kid ran and called for help instead of facing certain doom. I get why he did it, but I think it would’ve been better to book outta there.

Here's the thing Spree, don't you think its strange how the conversation has turned toward what the victim should or shouldn't have done , under a situation of extreme duress? If anybody's actions /motivations should be put under the microscope, it should be the shooters.

Yea I’m not tryin to even have the convo about how he reacted... I was just shocked by what I saw in the video, and like with any horror movie where the good guy makes the wrong turn into the room with the killer, you’re like “fuq man, I wish they went the other way”... only this was real life and I get caught up in thinkin how this kid could still be alive if things went differently. That’s all I was sayin... I’ve already mentioned how I don’t understand why this isn’t an open n shut case of cold blooded murder.

[Pointgod]

Obviously he had the right to defend himself. Nobody is questioning that, but to even try when you have virtually zero chance to win versus running away and calling the cops? That seems like the better move.

He’s young and athletic so I’m sure he could’ve evaded them on foot hopping a fence or two while calling 911. Just seemed like the best course of action instead of what he chose. It’s a shame that he even had to make that decision tho.

I don’t see how this isn’t an open n shut murder case.

Call the cops? Really? Think about that.

Ok so then what are we saying here? The kid was doomed 100% no matter what? You don’t think there’s even a 1% chance there are decent cops that would have responded and defused the situation?

Even at a 1% chance, I’m taking it over 100% chance at getting killed for trying to fight them off. I’m running and calling the cops which has at least a chance at me surviving.

All I said was I wish the kid ran and called for help instead of facing certain doom. I get why he did it, but I think it would’ve been better to book outta there.

The man has every right to defend himself from two psychopaths brandishing shotguns. This is 100% the fault of these two murderers not the innocent party.

[spree8]

Call the cops? Really? Think about that.

Ok so then what are we saying here? The kid was doomed 100% no matter what? You don’t think there’s even a 1% chance there are decent cops that would have responded and defused the situation?

Even at a 1% chance, I’m taking it over 100% chance at getting killed for trying to fight them off. I’m running and calling the cops which has at least a chance at me surviving.

All I said was I wish the kid ran and called for help instead of facing certain doom. I get why he did it, but I think it would’ve been better to book outta there.

The man has every right to defend himself from two psychopaths brandishing shotguns. This is 100% the fault of these two murderers not the innocent party.

Jesus... Fuqing... Christ... are you illiterate?

Obviously he had the right to defend himself. Nobody is questioning that, but to even try when you have virtually zero chance to win versus running away and calling the cops? That seems like the better move.

He’s young and athletic so I’m sure he could’ve evaded them on foot hopping a fence or two while calling 911. Just seemed like the best course of action instead of what he chose. It’s a shame that he even had to make that decision tho.

I don’t see how this isn’t an open n shut murder case.

Where the fuq did I say that it was his “fault”? Please, enlighten me?