Is Juluis Randle a fraud?

[DOT]

A large part of the criticism is just because people want Obi to play more and are becoming infatuated with his 7ppg and fast break dunks

That is part of it, I suppose

I don't feel like Obi is the long term answer, and he shouldn't be starting. His best asset is his energy off the bench (which is kind of sad for a 23 year old 8th overall pick, but if we ignore his draft position, I like it), which you're right would be neutralized if he were the starter. He's a nice change of pace guy, and while his fast break points would add a new dynamic, it wouldn't be enough to make up for his flaws over starter minutes

For me, what's frustrating is that Randle looks like he's putting less into it than he did last year. Like he got paid and is getting lazy

He's on a large deal, but it's not so large that he's a complete liability, it's just that if we got last year's Julius it'd be a great value contract, where now it's a slight overpay based on how he's played this year

I think it's just regression to the mean. Everybody in the starting lineup is playing worse than they did last year (including guys we didn't have), where last year we had guys play well above how they had before

I don't believe in making a drastic move like trading for a star unless the price is right this year, because I always felt this year was just gonna be us treading water and waiting for the opportune moment, but it's clear we will have to make a move sooner or later. Randle is not a true #1, and while that doesn't make him a bad player (and is more an indictment of the FO for not putting him in the right spot to succeed), because he's our de facto #1, he will be held to a higher standard than the rest of the team.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

My problem with Randle wasn't whether or not he's talented, it's that his game is so ball dominant and when he's off the ball he's actively trying to get it back, he's never cutting off ball, he's rarely setting screens for anyone other than the ball handler etc. He will gravitate towards whoever has the ball and try to set a screen even if they don't call for it, because he wants it back on the catch or on a repost, and when he does that he often brings his defender with him to kill whatever his teammate was thinking of doing. He doesn't pass to keep the offense moving, he passes with the sole purpose of trying to get an assist, it's why he runs so many DHO with Evan (Previously Bullock), and why so many of our shots come late in the clock (5th most frequent in shots coming 4-7 seconds on clock).

You cannot have a great functioning offense with Randle playing the way he plays and other players who need the ball, this year the starting 5 has a 104.9 offensive rating, last year with Payton/Bullock in the starting 5 we had a 109 ORTG, because the offense is so catered to Randle that it goes as he goes, and he's having a down year compared to last year. As bad as Kemba and Fournier are on defense, they are without question better offensive players than Payton and Bullock, yet our offense is even worse with them on the floor because Randle needs the ball. You could swap Randle with Obi in the 2nd unit and their offense would come grinding to a halt because you wouldn't have the movement that Obi brings, no cutting, no passing and the ball would stick to one person. That is just the fundamental problem of having such a ball dominant player who isn't a top 20 talent, you give the type of touches that Randle gets to a superstar, not to him. But, we let that genie out of the bottle and it is what it is at this point.

[thebuzzardman]

My problem with Randle wasn't whether or not he's talented, it's that his game is so ball dominant and when he's off the ball he's actively trying to get it back, he's never cutting off ball, he's rarely setting screens for anyone other than the ball handler etc. He will gravitate towards whoever has the ball and try to set a screen even if they don't call for it, because he wants it back on the catch or on a repost, and when he does that he often brings his defender with him to kill whatever his teammate was thinking of doing. He doesn't pass to keep the offense moving, he passes with the sole purpose of trying to get an assist, it's why he runs so many DHO with Evan (Previously Bullock), and why so many of our shots come late in the clock (5th most frequent in shots coming 4-7 seconds on clock).

You cannot have a great functioning offense with Randle playing the way he plays and other players who need the ball, this year the starting 5 has a 104.9 offensive rating, last year with Payton/Bullock in the starting 5 we had a 109 ORTG, because the offense is so catered to Randle that it goes as he goes, and he's having a down year compared to last year. As bad as Kemba and Fournier are on defense, they are without question better offensive players than Payton and Bullock, yet our offense is even worse with them on the floor because Randle needs the ball. You could swap Randle with Obi in the 2nd unit and their offense would come grinding to a halt because you wouldn't have the movement that Obi brings, no cutting, no passing and the ball would stick to one person. That is just the fundamental problem of having such a ball dominant player who isn't a top 20 talent, you give the type of touches that Randle gets to a superstar, not to him. But, we let that genie out of the bottle and it is what it is at this point.

Theory: Offense worked better last year BECAUSE of the offensive limitations of Elf/Bullocks/RJ. Because it facilitated Randle being Randle, where he was most happy and comfortable.

He's not liking the new offense where there is an expectation he might have to do other things than dominate the play.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

My problem with Randle wasn't whether or not he's talented, it's that his game is so ball dominant and when he's off the ball he's actively trying to get it back, he's never cutting off ball, he's rarely setting screens for anyone other than the ball handler etc. He will gravitate towards whoever has the ball and try to set a screen even if they don't call for it, because he wants it back on the catch or on a repost, and when he does that he often brings his defender with him to kill whatever his teammate was thinking of doing. He doesn't pass to keep the offense moving, he passes with the sole purpose of trying to get an assist, it's why he runs so many DHO with Evan (Previously Bullock), and why so many of our shots come late in the clock (5th most frequent in shots coming 4-7 seconds on clock).

You cannot have a great functioning offense with Randle playing the way he plays and other players who need the ball, this year the starting 5 has a 104.9 offensive rating, last year with Payton/Bullock in the starting 5 we had a 109 ORTG, because the offense is so catered to Randle that it goes as he goes, and he's having a down year compared to last year. As bad as Kemba and Fournier are on defense, they are without question better offensive players than Payton and Bullock, yet our offense is even worse with them on the floor because Randle needs the ball. You could swap Randle with Obi in the 2nd unit and their offense would come grinding to a halt because you wouldn't have the movement that Obi brings, no cutting, no passing and the ball would stick to one person. That is just the fundamental problem of having such a ball dominant player who isn't a top 20 talent, you give the type of touches that Randle gets to a superstar, not to him. But, we let that genie out of the bottle and it is what it is at this point.

Theory: Offense worked better last year BECAUSE of the offensive limitations of Elf/Bullocks/RJ. Because it facilitated Randle being Randle, where he was most happy and comfortable.

He's not liking the new offense where there is an expectation he might have to do other things than dominate the play.

This is exactly it, he doesn't know how to play without being the hub of an offense, and no team is going to have a great offense with him being the centerpiece. Those guys were worse offensively but they let Randle live out his LeBron dream, and our defense kept things close enough during the regular season to eek out games. People who post his stats do it without context, they say he averages 20ppg and 5apg, neglecting to point out just how much he touches the ball. He has the ball more than a lot of PGs, it's laughable to be honest, he has the ball more than Giannis

[3toheadmelo]

Is Juluis Randle a fraud?

[HarthorneWingo]

Btw, I think calling a player like Randle who has worked his ass off to get where he's at "a fraud" this early in the season is a little harsh. Clearly, there is an adjustment period going on here and Thibs will try and figure this out.

A team's defense is only as good as its weakest link. Once these players get by one of our two starting guards, we're not getting out to cover the 3 ball like we should. The rotations are too slow getting out there. I hearing that it's because our defenders are getting caught too deep into the paint on PnRs that they can't get out to the 3-point line in time, which is why we're giving up all of these open 3s. We need to fix this.

[nedleeds]

His behavior his entire career, outside one covid shortened season, say otherwise.

He took the deal because that's what he got offered, because Aller isn't a complete chump like Mills or Perry.

He took the deal because there wasn't any remotely comparable offer out there this coming Summer. And the Knicks were obviously picking up his option. What were the chances of him repeating fake All-NBA 2nd team? With real crowds, more real opposing teams and a full 82 games. Really low.

I ask the same question of our brain dead FO. What was the absolute worst case of letting Randle play it out? He plays well but is so anally wounded that we didn't extend that he won't accept our higher offer with an extra year via Bird rights? So many things have to happen for that to materialize.

He has to play awesome
We probably need to make the playoffs and he can't be a donkey in the 1st round
He has to stay healthy
Another team has to be willing to throw a non-Bird max to him, they need basically max space, not have a ball dominant power forward already in place, not be tanking ... who?

it's a useless thought exercise because he's already here for 5 years

Clearly. But being a Knicks fan for 35 years has mostly been useless.

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

[iLLmatic860]

Just look at Randle when he shoots free throws. Missed 3 in a row last night. Look at his body language. Look at his eyes

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[Capn'O]

Terrance Williams is a fraud.

[2010]

He is fool’s gold. Best way to sum it up. It’s imperative that we find a sucker to dump him on.

[Clyde_Style]

He is fool’s gold. Best way to sum it up. It’s imperative that we find a sucker to dump him on.

Does anyone know if Melo owns an NBA franchise?

[2010]

He is fool’s gold. Best way to sum it up. It’s imperative that we find a sucker to dump him on.

Does anyone know if Melo owns an NBA franchise?

BaF is as close as it gets and he got him already

[spree2kawhi]

He’s good. I thought he was bad under Fizdale, but the guy improved.

The mental instability on this board is off the charts though. No offense, I really don’t mean that as an insult. But 3 days from now y’all may just as well celebrate him like the second coming of Freddy Mercury.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Read on Twitter

Julius out there doing light cardio.

[Chanel Bomber]

There are so many aspects of Julius's game that I simply don't like.

- He plays slow.
- He likes to hold the ball.
- He's very selective about playing with effort, and he's extremely (imo overly) demonstrative when he does bother to make hustle plays.
- He's inefficient.
- He forces things.
- He always seems to gravitate towards the ball.
- His game isn't fun to watch.
- He's not mentally strong, so he folds under pressure and lets opponents get under his skin.
- His body language is pretty terrible.

All of the signs were there last year too, so it's not about turning on Randle.

[Capn'O]

He is fool’s gold. Best way to sum it up. It’s imperative that we find a sucker to dump him on.

Does anyone know if Melo owns an NBA franchise?

BaF is as close as it gets and he got him already

Dead

[HarthorneWingo]

Not sure where to post this

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[3toheadmelo]

He is fool’s gold. Best way to sum it up. It’s imperative that we find a sucker to dump him on.

Does anyone know if Melo owns an NBA franchise?

He’s on my BAF team and I already won him a championship! Living the dream in BAF

[2010]

Berman hints there may be chemistry issues

When Randle talked about the starters lacking chemistry, he might have been referring specifically to his alliance with Walker. When Randle weaved his bust-out 2020-21 season, he was the point forward, often bringing the ball upcourt. Both Walker and Randle like having the ball in their hands. One NBA scout senses Randle “pouts’’ when he doesn’t possess it enough.

It was notable that when Walker went off in the first half Friday, Randle didn’t have a point until 2:30 to go before intermission. The best scenario would be for both of them to click together. Instead, Randle is relapsing into iso-ball and committed five turnovers against the Hornets

One of the hallmarks of the 2020-21 team, which posted a 41-31 record, was its camaraderie. There were live wires on that Knicks bench. Unintentionally, Thibodeau may have created a division with his recent singling out of the starters in a very negative light.

When the bench brigade began a fourth-quarter comeback in Charlotte, the only players on the bench cheering were rookies Miles McBride, Quentin Grimes and Wayne Selden. The starters stayed put on the pine. Not good.

Sounds like Berman has been scouring through our forum and reading my posts.

https://nypost.com/2021/11/13/knicks-getting-right-includes-fixing-walker-randle-dynamic/

The takeaway is that Randle is not being a good leader and has set a toxic tone that doesn’t foster camaraderie amongst the team. Bears watching going forward.