Real talk fellas, how about we wait and see? Revisit in a few months

[KnicksNext]

Building around RJ, Obi, Quickley and Grimes probably doesn't lead you anywhere. The Knicks still miss that elusive elite talent.

You keep saying that, but then your own suggestion seems to be exactly the MSG-Wally propaganda-line that the goal is to make the 2nd round, after which point some sort of magical “respectability” threshold will be crossed that will miraculously attract established All-NBA veteran stars to join up with daddy Dolan.

In what universe is there a path to championship contention or elite talent recruitment by eeking out a single playoff series victory behind mediocre veteran “stars” like Donovan Mitchell?

The 'mediocre' star Donovan Mitchell would be the best player we've had (by a large margin) since Melo. Jazz have averaged 50 wins the last six years. That would be a DREAM scenario if somehow this franchise made that happen, but they won't. We will continue to overrate our kids, and not think a player like Mitchell (25 years old) is not worth giving up something to get him.

[cgmw]

Building around RJ, Obi, Quickley and Grimes probably doesn't lead you anywhere. The Knicks still miss that elusive elite talent.

You keep saying that, but then your own suggestion seems to be exactly the MSG-Wally propaganda-line that the goal is to make the 2nd round, after which point some sort of magical “respectability” threshold will be crossed that will miraculously attract established All-NBA veteran stars to join up with daddy Dolan.

In what universe is there a path to championship contention or elite talent recruitment by eeking out a single playoff series victory behind mediocre veteran “stars” like Donovan Mitchell?

The 'mediocre' star Donovan Mitchell would be the best player we've had (by a large margin) since Melo. Jazz have averaged 50 wins the last six years. That would be a DREAM scenario if somehow this franchise made that happen, but they won't. We will continue to overrate our kids, and not think a player like Mitchell (25 years old) is worth giving up something to get him.

Donovan would be the best Knick we’ve had since Melo, no doubt. Marbury before that.

Like 99% of NBA players, he’s not good enough to be the cornerstone superstar of a championship team. He is not Lebron, Steph, Durant, Giannis, Dirk, Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, Michael, Magic, Kareem, or Wilt.

The Knicks have no business trading future assets for a player of Donovan’s caliber because they are nowhere near competing for a championship, and there’s nothing Donovan Mitchell can do to change that just as there was never anything Carmelo could have done or Marbury before that.

[Chanel Bomber]

God damn the truth hurts.

I just want to point out, with the 11th spot, the odds of moving down 2 in the draft is about 1 in 900. Teams 12 and 13 would both need to get top 4 picks. That's unlikely.

Teams when they land around, you know 1-6 or 7 or even 8, odds of falling back 1 spot or even 2 or 3 is pretty high. The Knicks aren't the only team to slip in the draft, the way the lottery is set up, it's pretty common to slip backwards. One team wins a top 4 pick and moves forward, every team that picked before that team moves back one. Moving back is more common than moving up.

I wonder what the Parlay odds would be on:

1) Knicks move up to top 4 pick;
2) Knicks trade top 4 pick;
3) Knicks receive Zion

Bet it's better than 1 in 900. If we do move up top 4, I think there’s like a 90% chance Leon would trade it.

Quick question:

Would you trade for Zion, say if it cost you RJ, Obi, Cam, the Dallas pick, and 2 or 3 firsts?

He fits the criterion of a generational talent, he's young, but he also comes with major question marks.

I'm interested in your perspective since you're against most star trades (Mitchell etc.) because they don't present 1A on a championship team upside in your eyes.

[8516knicks]

"Like 99% of NBA players, he’s not good enough to be the cornerstone superstar of a championship team. He is not Lebron, Steph, Durant, Giannis, Dirk, Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, Michael, Magic, Kareem, or Wilt." One of those is not like the others.

[cgmw]

I just want to point out, with the 11th spot, the odds of moving down 2 in the draft is about 1 in 900. Teams 12 and 13 would both need to get top 4 picks. That's unlikely.

Teams when they land around, you know 1-6 or 7 or even 8, odds of falling back 1 spot or even 2 or 3 is pretty high. The Knicks aren't the only team to slip in the draft, the way the lottery is set up, it's pretty common to slip backwards. One team wins a top 4 pick and moves forward, every team that picked before that team moves back one. Moving back is more common than moving up.

I wonder what the Parlay odds would be on:

1) Knicks move up to top 4 pick;
2) Knicks trade top 4 pick;
3) Knicks receive Zion

Bet it's better than 1 in 900. If we do move up top 4, I think there’s like a 90% chance Leon would trade it.

Quick question:

Would you trade for Zion, say if it cost you RJ, Obi, Cam, the Dallas pick, and 2 or 3 firsts?

He fits the criterion of a generational talent, he's young, but he also comes with major question marks.

I'm interested in your perspective since you're against most star trades (Mitchell etc.) because they don't present 1A on a championship team upside in your eyes.

Personally, in my hypothetical world of total control, no. No, I wouldn’t.

1) Zion has proven to be a big medically compromised risk reminiscent of the mistakes made on Amare and McDyess. He also is a weight/morale risk reminiscent of Eddy Cuddy.

At the very least I’d want a full medical work up from insurance companies as well as a man-to-man talk about his weight and why he decided to sit out so many games.

2) Draining the asset pool for a player not on his rookie contract would be a fatal mistake considering we are nowhere near championship caliber and would have very few remaining assets to get there.

Zion would be a marketing boon for MSG, but it’s hard to see how that would translate to wins without running mates, cap space, or draft picks. Absolute best case scenario would be Jokic without Murray or Porter, or Giannis without Middleton and Holiday. Second round exit ceiling.

That said, no IRL human working for Dolan would have the balls to turn down a Zion trade. They’d trade the kitchen sink for him and live with the risk for nothing more than the ticket sales and media frenzy.

[Chanel Bomber]

I wonder what the Parlay odds would be on:

1) Knicks move up to top 4 pick;
2) Knicks trade top 4 pick;
3) Knicks receive Zion

Bet it's better than 1 in 900. If we do move up top 4, I think there’s like a 90% chance Leon would trade it.

Quick question:

Would you trade for Zion, say if it cost you RJ, Obi, Cam, the Dallas pick, and 2 or 3 firsts?

He fits the criterion of a generational talent, he's young, but he also comes with major question marks.

I'm interested in your perspective since you're against most star trades (Mitchell etc.) because they don't present 1A on a championship team upside in your eyes.

Personally, in my hypothetical world of total control, no. No, I wouldn’t.

1) Zion has proven to be a big medically compromised risk reminiscent of the mistakes made on Amare and McDyess. He also is a weight/morale risk reminiscent of Eddy Cuddy.

At the very least I’d want a full medical work up from insurance companies as well as a man-to-man talk about his weight and why he decided to sit out so many games.

2) Draining the asset pool for a player not on his rookie contract would be a fatal mistake considering we are nowhere near championship caliber and would have very few remaining assets to get there.

Zion would be a marketing boon for MSG, but it’s hard to see how that would translate to wins without running mates, cap space, or draft picks. Absolute best case scenario would be Jokic without Murray or Porter, or Giannis without Middleton and Holiday. Second round exit ceiling.

That said, no IRL human working for Dolan would have the balls to turn down a Zion trade. They’d trade the kitchen sink for him and live with the risk for nothing more than the ticket sales and media frenzy.

Fair points.

I would do it, assuming he passes medicals.

I think our most important player if we bring in Zion is IQ, because of the upside his pull-up game gives him. Grimes is still there. These are two young pieces worth developing.

I don't think the Pelicans would accept this offer by the way, but I would take the risk, barring serious medical concerns. He's one of the few generational talents in the NBA talent pool.

I think the Knicks would be better positioned than the Nuggets to recruit players if Zion is ready to play. As a Euro, Jokic is less of a draw for US players, and he obviously plays in a smaller market perception-wise. Same reason the Bucks had to trade for and overpay their third star.

[nedleeds]

Is it possible to put aside your right to stop **** complaining about things that haven't happened yet

Then stop posting.

Watch on YouTube

[nedleeds]

Building around RJ, Obi, Quickley and Grimes probably doesn't lead you anywhere. The Knicks still miss that elusive elite talent.

Not building, but playing those guys leads you to the lottery which is great. If those guys get the 6th seed something has happened in their development. 90% that core with other young dudes and veteran road apples should lock you for a top 5 pick.

10% chance RJ learns to dribble, shoot or make a layup and you're the 6th seed then I suppose that's progress as well.

[cgmw]

Quick question:

Would you trade for Zion, say if it cost you RJ, Obi, Cam, the Dallas pick, and 2 or 3 firsts?

He fits the criterion of a generational talent, he's young, but he also comes with major question marks.

I'm interested in your perspective since you're against most star trades (Mitchell etc.) because they don't present 1A on a championship team upside in your eyes.

Personally, in my hypothetical world of total control, no. No, I wouldn’t.

1) Zion has proven to be a big medically compromised risk reminiscent of the mistakes made on Amare and McDyess. He also is a weight/morale risk reminiscent of Eddy Cuddy.

At the very least I’d want a full medical work up from insurance companies as well as a man-to-man talk about his weight and why he decided to sit out so many games.

2) Draining the asset pool for a player not on his rookie contract would be a fatal mistake considering we are nowhere near championship caliber and would have very few remaining assets to get there.

Zion would be a marketing boon for MSG, but it’s hard to see how that would translate to wins without running mates, cap space, or draft picks. Absolute best case scenario would be Jokic without Murray or Porter, or Giannis without Middleton and Holiday. Second round exit ceiling.

That said, no IRL human working for Dolan would have the balls to turn down a Zion trade. They’d trade the kitchen sink for him and live with the risk for nothing more than the ticket sales and media frenzy.

Fair points.

I would do it, assuming he passes medicals.

I think our most important player if we bring in Zion is IQ, because of the upside his pull-up game gives him. Grimes is still there. These are two young pieces worth developing.

I don't think the Pelicans would accept this offer by the way, but I would take the risk, barring serious medical concerns. He's one of the few generational talents in the NBA talent pool.

I think the Knicks would be better positioned than the Nuggets to recruit players if Zion is ready to play. As a Euro, Jokic is less of a draw for US players, and he obviously plays in a smaller market perception-wise. Same reason the Bucks had to trade for and overpay their third star.

Knicks would F it up so quickly. They’d probably bring in Brody or Wall immediately. Imagine Thibs managing Zion’s minutes

[cgf]

WTF is this patience BS? Turn in your knicks fan card & GTFO.

[cgmw]

WTF is this patience BS? Turn in your knicks fan card & GTFO.

If it’s 2022 and you’re still a Knick fan, they should print your picture in the dictionary under “patience.”

[KnixtapeH20]

Is it possible to put aside your right to stop **** complaining about things that haven't happened yet and wait and see what actually **** happens? U seen this story a thousand times? It's a pattern 100% i get it... But who **** cares. U rather just talk about how everything bad that could happen will every comment? Its getting mad old... Like trashing our youth that ish been beyond old for awhile now.

May 17 : Draft lottery
June 23 : Draft day
June 29 - July 1st : Key decisions on FA, RFA, Extensions, Official start of the 2022/23 NBA season, Negociations
July 7 - 17 : Summer league
Sep 20ish : Training camp begins


Once FA began and was nearing an end i called out Leon & co. the minute it looked like we had a piss poor plan in free agency... Then I got blasted for having poor foresight... Hindsight I was right, you may be too but wait for the **** time to rant. Or continue beating a dead horse, its in your right. Good chance I'll invoke my sig motto quite a bit.

Not a single person here knows the plan of this front office. So enough of the tired woe is me never ending knicks saga. One tweet doesn't mean ****

Before someone tries to flip my words don't get it twisted, ranting about how much Randle sucks or Thibs or RJ or our youth... w.e ur cup of tea is not the same as talking about decisions that are months from being revealed.


Come correct if u gona challenge me on this. Carry the hell on peasants

-no eve im not drunk, can't sleep

Basically you're saying we should not post at all, but you do realize there isn't anything else to talk about, is there? I guess if we all had your rose colored glasses on we could sit on here and praise how all of our youth are future stars, yada yada yada.. but I prefer to live in reality and think critically based on my knowledge of basketball. We're light years away from being good or having franchise talents on our team. We could be in that situation right now, but we're the Knicks and we draft potential starters instead of future stars, and we add middling vets to ensure we don't get to the top of the draft.

Sure, we can wait and see, but then we wouldn't have anything to talk about. So what's the point of that?

And I like you, dude. You're a great, passionate Knicks fan. I've just been to abused year after year for 10+ years with this team and don't see what you see in terms of our future potential and youth.

Nah this topic is aimed at the ppl who constantly already lay out our roster for next season before it even happens simply bc we've been such a disaster of a franchise. But it's **** annoying hearing it over and over. Nobody can speak in definites bc there isn't a person even in the media that knows the Knicks plans. It's all speculation.

I made sure to reiterate my point wasn't about ppl **** on our players or front office but about some predetermined off season that hasnt even begun.

Although I got plenty of smoke for the fans that run that false narrative that our youth is trash like years past.

[KnixtapeH20]

I just want to point out, with the 11th spot, the odds of moving down 2 in the draft is about 1 in 900. Teams 12 and 13 would both need to get top 4 picks. That's unlikely.

Teams when they land around, you know 1-6 or 7 or even 8, odds of falling back 1 spot or even 2 or 3 is pretty high. The Knicks aren't the only team to slip in the draft, the way the lottery is set up, it's pretty common to slip backwards. One team wins a top 4 pick and moves forward, every team that picked before that team moves back one. Moving back is more common than moving up.

I wonder what the Parlay odds would be on:

1) Knicks move up to top 4 pick;
2) Knicks trade top 4 pick;
3) Knicks receive Zion

Bet it's better than 1 in 900. If we do move up top 4, I think there’s like a 90% chance Leon would trade it.

Quick question:

Would you trade for Zion, say if it cost you RJ, Obi, Cam, the Dallas pick, and 2 or 3 firsts?

He fits the criterion of a generational talent, he's young, but he also comes with major question marks.

I'm interested in your perspective since you're against most star trades (Mitchell etc.) because they don't present 1A on a championship team upside in your eyes.

What in the absolute ****? **** no. He's a HUGE question mark. I know u don't think much of RJ but Zion does and he's not coming here w.o his boy.

RJ and Obi at worst are starters. They'll both eventually be all stars at some point in their careers. Definitely fringe all stars if u don't agree they make it. On top of that u wanna unload firsts + Cam who was a first and can net u a first bc of his potential and how young he is.

U only take that gamble and trade for Zion to pair him with RJ.

[KnixtapeH20]

Is it possible to put aside your right to stop **** complaining about things that haven't happened yet and wait and see what actually **** happens? U seen this story a thousand times? It's a pattern 100% i get it... But who **** cares. U rather just talk about how everything bad that could happen will every comment? Its getting mad old... Like trashing our youth that ish been beyond old for awhile now.

May 17 : Draft lottery
June 23 : Draft day
June 29 - July 1st : Key decisions on FA, RFA, Extensions, Official start of the 2022/23 NBA season, Negociations
July 7 - 17 : Summer league
Sep 20ish : Training camp begins


Once FA began and was nearing an end i called out Leon & co. the minute it looked like we had a piss poor plan in free agency... Then I got blasted for having poor foresight... Hindsight I was right, you may be too but wait for the **** time to rant. Or continue beating a dead horse, its in your right. Good chance I'll invoke my sig motto quite a bit.

Not a single person here knows the plan of this front office. So enough of the tired woe is me never ending knicks saga. One tweet doesn't mean ****

Before someone tries to flip my words don't get it twisted, ranting about how much Randle sucks or Thibs or RJ or our youth... w.e ur cup of tea is not the same as talking about decisions that are months from being revealed.


Come correct if u gona challenge me on this. Carry the hell on peasants

-no eve im not drunk, can't sleep

And to be transparent, reading your posts and others posts about how great our youth will is annoying as well. I've seen you talk up every single young kid we have on our roster at one point or another. That is equally as annoying to continue to read that over and over again. And when someone disagrees with you and tells you to slow down a bit with your future predictions, you usually come at them hard and tell them to STFU and GTFO.

Can you see how that might be mad old as well?

It's not that everyone thinks our youth is so great. It's about them getting a **** opportunity to develop properly and prove themselves like every other successful franchise does with it's draft picks. Not bury them behind Alex **** Burks, Julius **** Randle and Evan **** Fournier.

And when I keep reading about how trash our youth is like it's the same as years past I'll be the first one to swoop in and talk up our young guns bc they are talented.

Grimes has the potential to be a mini Klay. Everything is there besides a few inches. We barely even got to see what he could do bc he had to wait his turn behind Evan **** Fournier and Alec **** Burks.

[nedleeds]

I wonder what the Parlay odds would be on:

1) Knicks move up to top 4 pick;
2) Knicks trade top 4 pick;
3) Knicks receive Zion

Bet it's better than 1 in 900. If we do move up top 4, I think there’s like a 90% chance Leon would trade it.

Quick question:

Would you trade for Zion, say if it cost you RJ, Obi, Cam, the Dallas pick, and 2 or 3 firsts?

He fits the criterion of a generational talent, he's young, but he also comes with major question marks.

I'm interested in your perspective since you're against most star trades (Mitchell etc.) because they don't present 1A on a championship team upside in your eyes.

What in the absolute ****? **** no. He's a HUGE question mark. I know u don't think much of RJ but Zion does and he's not coming here w.o his boy.

RJ and Obi at worst are starters. They'll both eventually be all stars at some point in their careers.

I love some of you guys but seriously. Obi beat up on G-League rejects for 3 games after shooting 19% from 3 for the prior 6 months. RJ is a historically terrible shooter who padded his stats on a dumpster team and now he's an All-Star?

I wouldn't trade for Zion if it didn't include a way to punt Randle to the moon. But I'd snap trade RJ and Cam and a mountain of firsts. Obi doesn't make sense unless he can shoot 3s and you play small so his 24 year old ass can go also.

The 10% chance that Zion is healthy is higher than the chance RJ (lol or Obi) become a top 30 player in the league. So you make the trade.

[KnixtapeH20]

Quick question:

Would you trade for Zion, say if it cost you RJ, Obi, Cam, the Dallas pick, and 2 or 3 firsts?

He fits the criterion of a generational talent, he's young, but he also comes with major question marks.

I'm interested in your perspective since you're against most star trades (Mitchell etc.) because they don't present 1A on a championship team upside in your eyes.

What in the absolute ****? **** no. He's a HUGE question mark. I know u don't think much of RJ but Zion does and he's not coming here w.o his boy.

RJ and Obi at worst are starters. They'll both eventually be all stars at some point in their careers.

I love some of you guys but seriously. Obi beat up on G-League rejects for 3 games after shooting 19% from 3 for the prior 6 months. RJ is a historically terrible shooter who padded his stats on a dumpster team and now he's an All-Star?

I wouldn't trade for Zion if it didn't include a way to punt Randle to the moon. But I'd snap trade RJ and Cam and a mountain of firsts. Obi doesn't make sense unless he can shoot 3s and you play small so his 24 year old ass can go also.

The 10% chance that Zion is healthy is higher than the chance RJ (lol or Obi) become a top 30 player in the league. So you make the trade.

Lol my take isnt from those select games we saw. I always knew the talent was there. We saw spurts with Obi and RJ growing every game. It's not a coincidence that with 30+ minutes they look (especially Obi) like legit starters. Especially w.o Randle killing the offense

You're not a believer yet, nothing wrong with that. Maybe I'll wrong we'll see.

And what I think is special about Obi is that his speed and athleticism there's few guys in the NBA that can be that dangerous. He can literally get you 6 buckets a game on leak outs and in transition. He's money at the free throw line. He has so much more to show us. He's gona LIVE at the foul line

[nedleeds]

What in the absolute ****? **** no. He's a HUGE question mark. I know u don't think much of RJ but Zion does and he's not coming here w.o his boy.

RJ and Obi at worst are starters. They'll both eventually be all stars at some point in their careers.

I love some of you guys but seriously. Obi beat up on G-League rejects for 3 games after shooting 19% from 3 for the prior 6 months. RJ is a historically terrible shooter who padded his stats on a dumpster team and now he's an All-Star?

I wouldn't trade for Zion if it didn't include a way to punt Randle to the moon. But I'd snap trade RJ and Cam and a mountain of firsts. Obi doesn't make sense unless he can shoot 3s and you play small so his 24 year old ass can go also.

The 10% chance that Zion is healthy is higher than the chance RJ (lol or Obi) become a top 30 player in the league. So you make the trade.

Lol my take isnt from those select games we saw. I always knew the talent was there. We saw spurts with Obi and RJ growing every game. It's not a coincidence that with 30+ minutes they look (especially Obi) like legit starters. Especially w.o Randle killing the offense

You're not a believer yet, nothing wrong with that. Maybe I'll wrong we'll see.

And what I think is special about Obi is that his speed and athleticism there's few guys in the NBA that can be that dangerous. He can literally get you 6 buckets a game on leak outs and in transition. He's money at the free throw line. He has so much more to show us. He's gona LIVE at the foul line

Obi is at 76% at the line maybe not money but good for a 4, teased out to per 100 possessions he's at 5 attempts. RJ per 100 is 8.4. RJ has the opposite problem, he showed he can get to the line but for a shooting guard is bad from there.

LIVE is a strong possibly alcohol enhanced take on Obi at the line. The eye test though on Obi's free throw stroke is encouraging and that can be encouraging for his 3 ball long term.

I'm in favor of maxxing all the playing time for these guys and dumping Randle. If that means we go 10-72, I'll pop the champagne. If we get the 6th seed it means they've developed and I'll pop the champagne. I don't want the 6th seed on Rudy Gobert and Randle.

[cgmw]

Imagine how extra miserable Thibs would be if Leon punted Randle and took away all Thibs’ favorite vet pets and actually forced him to play the kids.

Imagine how Thibs’ brain would meltdown at press conferences if his bosses told him the company line wasn’t “our goal is the playoffs,” but instead: “our primary focus is building a longterm program of greatness.”

MSG would still sell out. Ticket prices would still be the highest anywhere. Best of all, maybe our petulant ADD owner would lose interest. That is until the inevitable happens and the kids actually develop into exactly the 8-seed caliber team Dolan’s been lusting after with expensive useless shoot-yourself-in-the-foot vets like Randle.

[nedleeds]

Imagine how extra miserable Thibs would be if Leon punted Randle and took away all Thibs’ favorite vet pets and actually forced him to play the kids.

Imagine how Thibs’ brain would meltdown at press conferences if his bosses told him the company line wasn’t “our goal is the playoffs,” but instead: “our primary focus is building a longterm program of greatness.”

MSG would still sell out. Ticket prices would still be the highest anywhere. Best of all, maybe our petulant ADD owner would lose interest. That is until the inevitable happens and the kids actually develop into exactly the 8-seed caliber team Dolan’s been lusting after with expensive useless shoot-yourself-in-the-foot vets like Randle.

this is the dream ...

[cgmw]

Imagine how extra miserable Thibs would be if Leon punted Randle and took away all Thibs’ favorite vet pets and actually forced him to play the kids.

Imagine how Thibs’ brain would meltdown at press conferences if his bosses told him the company line wasn’t “our goal is the playoffs,” but instead: “our primary focus is building a longterm program of greatness.”

MSG would still sell out. Ticket prices would still be the highest anywhere. Best of all, maybe our petulant ADD owner would lose interest. That is until the inevitable happens and the kids actually develop into exactly the 8-seed caliber team Dolan’s been lusting after with expensive useless shoot-yourself-in-the-foot vets like Randle.

this is the dream ...

No joke, I’d be a little worried it might literally kill Thibs. Like a circuit breaker would suddenly blow and his face would slowly melt into his ill-fitted track suit.