thebuzzardman wrote:Got locked while I was in mid ebook:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:thebuzzardman wrote:
Yeah, it's getting a little thick in here.
And I like both Grimes and IQ
And, Knicks need to retain some youth, as much as possible, for quality of bench and for some semblance of future flexibility.
There are scenarios where letting IQ go makes sense, there are others where it's Grimes.
I mean, common sense ones, not which player someone likes more.
Right now, with zero trade, /Rose/IQ/Grimes/Cam/McBride represent some level of glut behind Brunson, Fournier, RJ and even Obi.
If somehow just Fournier goes (impossibly) for Mitchell, same glut remains, broadly. Even pretending Mitchell can't see time at PG, which he can.
Start putting in who matches salary with Fournier, try to hold onto a player with some PG skills (maybe) and then there are choices between IQ or Grimes, Grimes or Cam, Cam or Obi, all of which have conditions on if Rose is the other player with Fournier, or Obi, etc.
TL/DR - If Mitchell comes in, Knicks can pretty easily send 3 players out.
It's the combination of picks and players that's the problem for me, if it were one or the other fine, but it's both which makes it hard to restock the cabinet.
That is the point of these kind of trades for the team giving up the star, they want both because it makes it much more difficult to put together a coherent roster the longer the team is together which in turn improves the future picks they traded for. Just look at all the playoffs teams, they had depth that consisted of a lot of guys found later in the draft, it's rare to put together a great team now with these kind of trades. Even the Clippers have found it difficult and they've got two vastly superior players to what we have.
My issue with the Mitchell trade is the redundancy of Brunson and Mitchell, we just saw the Nets fail trying to put together a team simply based on talent, regardless of fit. I like Grimes, he has two way potential, people only think about the scoring someone like Mitchell will bring, and not what he's going to give up on the other end, and what happens in the event some team we're playing has a guy that can go toe to toe with him scoring wise (amplified by his bad defense), but will also negatively impact his efficiency on the other end. The Hawks just made a trade to get bigger & more defensive in their backcourt, at a time teams are upsizing on the perimeter and downsizing in the frontcourt, we're going the opposite direction
I get the potential backcourt issues.
I still think when a team can consolidate talent, it should do it, especially if it's players that can create for themselves and others
Defense has been covered - I know your argument, I get it
I've gone from being adamant Grimes stays for all your reasons, to understanding if they do something else.
Even though Rose is older and everyone (but Guano) wants to jettison Fournier, they create some roster change, even with Brunson in and Mitchell. Rose, that he's an actual legit PG, Fournier with height and shooting at wing (though no defense)
To kind of backfill Fournier, but with less offense (at first - maybe) but more defense, I'd hold onto Grimes
But if Rose is also in the deal, even though IQ is more combo than PG, I'd want to keep IQ also.
Which probably means Obi going, which I don't like either, but some have argued Cam could kind of replace him. Not so sure.
Ideally, I'd like to see Founier/Rose/Cam/McBride but I doubt Ainge goes for that. And yes, it would mean at least 5 picks.
Brunson/Mitchell/IQ
Mitchell/IQ
RJ/Grimes
Randle/Obi
Meetch/Hartenstein/Sims
But I doubt that trade happens.
A lot of that glut would be worked out in the next two years, we have a team option on Rose at the end of the 2023 season, he could actually be a valuable trade piece for a contender at the deadline if he looks decent. There's a team option on F0urnier at the end of the 2024 season, so that's two guards taken care of right and Cam has restricted free agency coming up.
The backcourt defense will be a very big issue, it'll be one of those things where people pump their chests the first year or two if it doesn't look too bad in the regular season, but will be horrific in the playoffs when teams decide it's time to target them. There's no glossing over how bad that could be, it's CJ and Dam all over again where you just keep trying and trying, but the teams with the bigger guards abuse your little guys in the playoffs.
If Grimes is kind of Fournier, with much better defense, that's basically Dillion Brooks, who averages 18ppg and plays solid on that end. Depth is why the Grizz were able to go something like 20-2 when JA was out, imagine a world in which they decided to trade Bane and Brooks + 5-6 picks for Bradley Beal after his 31ppg season, everyone would be lauding the move, until they notice those two guys are outpacing the production of Beal a year later, without the trash defense. I feel like that is what this trade has the potential to be, we look up, Grime is an 16-18ppg scorer who is one of the better two way guards, and then we have to remember all the picks we gave them.
