GT: New York Knicks vs Barclays Nets (Mon, 7:30PM)

[mpharris36]

i do think if you're gonna trade him you need to do it soon. you might have some teams who still think he's young and he can grow. but another year like this and he likely will become an albatross. and let's be honest, he's the obvious guy out of our trio who will be traded to improve the team. i don't see rj spending his career as a knick.

I agree that I don't see RJ spending his entire career as a knick. They put him in the Donovan Mitchell trade...they will probably put him in the next star trade as well. That also doesn't mean he's an albatross contract. Because a 22 year old putting up 20 ppg is far from an albatross. Do you want him to be more EFF yes...the defensive drop off is probably the most concerning because you can live with below avg EFF on off if he was also a + 2 way wing.

I just don't ever seeing that contract becoming an albatross since the CBA currently is likely to end in 2023-24. As that contract kicks in the NBA salary cap is going to continue to skyrocket with the new TV deal.

There are rumors the projected cap in 2025 is going to be like 171 MM. A 25-30% of the cap will be around 50 MM. RJ's salary will be in the mid 20's around then.

I could see RJ spending his entire career as a knick or at least most of it. I wouldn't say he's an albatross contract either but if we're at this point next season and there's still no improvement I would say we're rapidly approaching albatross territory. But there's still time to turn it around.

if he just gets back to his year 2 defensive self even off this offensive production he will never be considered an albatross with where the cap is going and his age. Someone will take a chance on him.

The defense though needs to be figured out. He's been atrocious on that end. There is no excuse for that.

[thebuzzardman]

i do think if you're gonna trade him you need to do it soon. you might have some teams who still think he's young and he can grow. but another year like this and he likely will become an albatross. and let's be honest, he's the obvious guy out of our trio who will be traded to improve the team. i don't see rj spending his career as a knick.

As favor to anyone who places sports bets, which team are you rooting for?

You know, so the bet can be on the other side.

durant is gone. i care nothing about the nets. i'm rooting for the knicks. plus it's no longer fun to troll you guys with.

i do like some of their players though. and they're actually in a good position to trade for a star too if one becomes available. we'll be competing with them for one.

*Gets on Cesars, puts $1000 on Nets to win*

[rajajackal]

What are you offering? The price goes up tomorrow

rj barrett, isaiah hartenstein, and our 2025 pick unprotected

You got any more 1st rounders? Lmao

could toss in one of our protected 2023 1sts, but since we picked rj top 3 after a tank, he's sort of an "unprotected 1st" in terms of value from our side. he could really blossom on your young team

[MrDollarBills]

What do you think the price should be?

Someone allegedly offered 4 1st rounders, which goes to show you how badly the Gobert trade ruined the market

That was probably Memphis

Yeah it was. I forgot where but someone had said it was the Knicks, but i highly doubt our teams ever trade with each other (and honestly, that's so stupid).

[MrDollarBills]

rj barrett, isaiah hartenstein, and our 2025 pick unprotected

You got any more 1st rounders? Lmao

could toss in one of our protected 2023 1sts, but since we picked rj top 3 after a tank, he's sort of an "unprotected 1st" in terms of value from our side. he could really blossom on your young team

Can I interest you in Ben Simmons as well?

[Buttah304]

I agree that I don't see RJ spending his entire career as a knick. They put him in the Donovan Mitchell trade...they will probably put him in the next star trade as well. That also doesn't mean he's an albatross contract. Because a 22 year old putting up 20 ppg is far from an albatross. Do you want him to be more EFF yes...the defensive drop off is probably the most concerning because you can live with below avg EFF on off if he was also a + 2 way wing.

I just don't ever seeing that contract becoming an albatross since the CBA currently is likely to end in 2023-24. As that contract kicks in the NBA salary cap is going to continue to skyrocket with the new TV deal.

There are rumors the projected cap in 2025 is going to be like 171 MM. A 25-30% of the cap will be around 50 MM. RJ's salary will be in the mid 20's around then.

The new CBA may change a lot of things. It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. Some of the legacy contracts that are questionable may look like bargains. I wonder if that is part of the front offices thinking, and even with picking up Hart and likely paying him.

Could be...all new deals come with some kind of sticker shock. I'm sure Daniel Jones will as well. But the point is agents aren't dumb they are also negotiating parts of what the salary cap will be during the life of the contract.

RJ deal next year in terms of the cap might be a bit high...but the remaining year of that after the new CBA kicks in will look perfectly fine even if his production stays relatively the same.

He needs to get his defense back to league avg levels though.

I legitimately question if he ever will. As we all know by now he’s severely lacking in functional athleticism but it even bleeds out into how his feet move laterally. It’s why he dies on every screen and is so slow trying to get around them. Even his closeouts have been brutal. He’s routinely gotten beat back door this year but that’s not even what bothers me most. I’ve noticed that his man will completely blow by him and he’ll look at iShart all pissed off as if RJ didn’t just put the defense in a compromised position.

But like you said, as fans we could probably deal with the 20-6-3 on 43/34/75 splits if his defense was actually average. In an ideal world it would be slightly above.

[HEZI]

Wait, so Brooklyn was offered 4 first round picks for Mikal and they declined?

Lol dumbasses

[rajajackal]

You got any more 1st rounders? Lmao

could toss in one of our protected 2023 1sts, but since we picked rj top 3 after a tank, he's sort of an "unprotected 1st" in terms of value from our side. he could really blossom on your young team

Can I interest you in Ben Simmons as well?

we're entering 3 team trade territory

[dakomish23]

So when are the Nets trading us Mikal?

What are you offering? The price goes up tomorrow

rj barrett, isaiah hartenstein, and our 2025 pick unprotected

They’ll get better offers to restart the rebuild

[rajajackal]

The new CBA may change a lot of things. It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. Some of the legacy contracts that are questionable may look like bargains. I wonder if that is part of the front offices thinking, and even with picking up Hart and likely paying him.

Could be...all new deals come with some kind of sticker shock. I'm sure Daniel Jones will as well. But the point is agents aren't dumb they are also negotiating parts of what the salary cap will be during the life of the contract.

RJ deal next year in terms of the cap might be a bit high...but the remaining year of that after the new CBA kicks in will look perfectly fine even if his production stays relatively the same.

He needs to get his defense back to league avg levels though.

I legitimately question if he ever will. As we all know by now he’s severely lacking in functional athleticism but it even bleeds out into how his feet move laterally. It’s why he dies on every screen and is so slow trying to get around them. Even his closeouts have been brutal. He’s routinely gotten beat back door this year but that’s not even what bothers me most. I’ve noticed that his man will completely blow by him and he’ll look at iShart all pissed off as if RJ didn’t just put the defense in a compromised position.

But like you said, as fans we could probably deal with the 20-6-3 on 43/34/75 splits if his defense was actually average. In an ideal world it would be slightly above.

quite frankly i could live with the sh*t defense if he would just take about 40% fewer field goal attempts. i don't care if he winds up with 20 if he's costing us 15 by wasting possessions forcing it up

[BKlutch]

Early JHart data

9 mins
I. Hartenstein - J. Hart - R. Barrett - O. Toppin - I. Quickley
110.0 ORTG
100.0 DRTG
10.0 NRTG

8 mins
J. Randle - I. Hartenstein - J. Hart - J. Brunson - I. Quickley
135.3 ORTG
123.5 DRTG
11.8 NRTG

J. Randle - I. Hartenstein - J. Hart - J. Brunson - R. Barrett
200.0 ORTG
166.7 DRTG
33.3 NRTG

So if this is foreshadowing, then it’s primarily Grimes mins who will go down. I assume if RJ picks it up in the 4th or is just having a good game then he’ll close, otherwise, it’s IQ.

I’d like Grimes to start the 4th with RJ & the bench unit. Hart is likely going to close the games out anyway

I have two comments:
1. Small sample size LOL
2. Beautiful if this persists over more playing minutes!

[mpharris36]

The new CBA may change a lot of things. It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. Some of the legacy contracts that are questionable may look like bargains. I wonder if that is part of the front offices thinking, and even with picking up Hart and likely paying him.

Could be...all new deals come with some kind of sticker shock. I'm sure Daniel Jones will as well. But the point is agents aren't dumb they are also negotiating parts of what the salary cap will be during the life of the contract.

RJ deal next year in terms of the cap might be a bit high...but the remaining year of that after the new CBA kicks in will look perfectly fine even if his production stays relatively the same.

He needs to get his defense back to league avg levels though.

I legitimately question if he ever will. As we all know by now he’s severely lacking in functional athleticism but it even bleeds out into how his feet move laterally. It’s why he dies on every screen and is so slow trying to get around them. Even his closeouts have been brutal. He’s routinely gotten beat back door this year but that’s not even what bothers me most. I’ve noticed that his man will completely blow by him and he’ll look at iShart all pissed off as if RJ didn’t just put the defense in a compromised position.

But like you said, as fans we could probably deal with the 20-6-3 on 43/34/75 splits if his defense was actually average. In an ideal world it would be slightly above.

He's been roughly league avg in his 2nd and 3rd year.



he has no dropped off back to his bad rookie year. He can be league average. He has shown that, I don't know whats really causing the drop off...lack of effort, conserving more energy for offense because he values that more...and injury he's battling through...

whatever it is he has been awful this year on that end.

[dakomish23]

What do you think the price should be?

Someone allegedly offered 4 1st rounders, which goes to show you how badly the Gobert trade ruined the market

That was probably Memphis

MEM supposedly offered 3 1sts for OG & IND supposedly offered 3 for OG plus the high 2nd (potentially) of HOU. So that’s going rate for one of these guys.

[BKlutch]

Read on Twitter

I don't blame Harden for wanting out. Kyrie is a nutjob and Nash didn't know what he was doing.

But he's the same guy who came into camp with a fat beer gut that season and wasn't showing up for treatment on his hamstring. He absolutely had a hand in the dysfunction. They all did. KD, Kyrie, Harden, Nash, Marks and Tsai are all to blame. Joe Tsai makes James Dolan look like an absentee owner.

Maybe, but I really wonder if this wasn't just his way of convincing Genocide Joe Tsai that he was so bad they should make the trade for Ben 10. I know, it's reprehensible behavior, but I think Harden may be crazy like a fox. KI, OTOH, is just plain fuqqing nuts.

[dakomish23]

Early JHart data

9 mins
I. Hartenstein - J. Hart - R. Barrett - O. Toppin - I. Quickley
110.0 ORTG
100.0 DRTG
10.0 NRTG

8 mins
J. Randle - I. Hartenstein - J. Hart - J. Brunson - I. Quickley
135.3 ORTG
123.5 DRTG
11.8 NRTG

J. Randle - I. Hartenstein - J. Hart - J. Brunson - R. Barrett
200.0 ORTG
166.7 DRTG
33.3 NRTG

So if this is foreshadowing, then it’s primarily Grimes mins who will go down. I assume if RJ picks it up in the 4th or is just having a good game then he’ll close, otherwise, it’s IQ.

I’d like Grimes to start the 4th with RJ & the bench unit. Hart is likely going to close the games out anyway

I have two comments:
1. Small sample size LOL
2. Beautiful if this persists over more playing minutes!

I think it will. We desperately needed some more fill in the gap guys and that’s what he specializes at

[BKlutch]

Joe Tsai makes James Dolan look like an absentee owner.

So you think Joe Tssai is a worse owner than Dolan?

Yeah. Tsia supports and funds genocide

And he even told this to ESPN in that infamous interview -- of course, he did say he thought it was ok because China does treat the other 90% of their people ok.

And besides, his entire business model requires him to say this or he'd lose so many $$. Or CNY.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Early JHart data

9 mins
I. Hartenstein - J. Hart - R. Barrett - O. Toppin - I. Quickley
110.0 ORTG
100.0 DRTG
10.0 NRTG

8 mins
J. Randle - I. Hartenstein - J. Hart - J. Brunson - I. Quickley
135.3 ORTG
123.5 DRTG
11.8 NRTG

J. Randle - I. Hartenstein - J. Hart - J. Brunson - R. Barrett
200.0 ORTG
166.7 DRTG
33.3 NRTG

So if this is foreshadowing, then it’s primarily Grimes mins who will go down. I assume if RJ picks it up in the 4th or is just having a good game then he’ll close, otherwise, it’s IQ.

I’d like Grimes to start the 4th with RJ & the bench unit. Hart is likely going to close the games out anyway

I have two comments:
1. Small sample size LOL
2. Beautiful if this persists over more playing minutes!

I think it will. We desperately needed some more fill in the gap guys and that’s what he specializes at

For all the Hart vs RJ talk, they actually looked good together and can compliment each other

[BKlutch]

Dolan is an ass hole, but at least he's not funding genocide.

That A.I. stuff is pretty disgusting. Tsai just said words. Dolan Big Brother surveillance program is putting words into action.

I totally forgot about that. for some reason i was thinking about him threatening to stop serving liquor

And then there was Sterling who abused and discriminated against people of color, and Sarver, and ...
Just look at Billionaires and oligarchs in general -- Trump, Putin, Russian Oligarchs beyond count...

Yes nobody really loves Dolan but horrible billionaire owners seems to be fairly common (NOT GOOD, just more common than we'd ever have expected in a league that promotes diversity and equity).

[Buttah304]

Could be...all new deals come with some kind of sticker shock. I'm sure Daniel Jones will as well. But the point is agents aren't dumb they are also negotiating parts of what the salary cap will be during the life of the contract.

RJ deal next year in terms of the cap might be a bit high...but the remaining year of that after the new CBA kicks in will look perfectly fine even if his production stays relatively the same.

He needs to get his defense back to league avg levels though.

I legitimately question if he ever will. As we all know by now he’s severely lacking in functional athleticism but it even bleeds out into how his feet move laterally. It’s why he dies on every screen and is so slow trying to get around them. Even his closeouts have been brutal. He’s routinely gotten beat back door this year but that’s not even what bothers me most. I’ve noticed that his man will completely blow by him and he’ll look at iShart all pissed off as if RJ didn’t just put the defense in a compromised position.

But like you said, as fans we could probably deal with the 20-6-3 on 43/34/75 splits if his defense was actually average. In an ideal world it would be slightly above.

He's been roughly league avg in his 2nd and 3rd year.



he has no dropped off back to his bad rookie year. He can be league average. He has shown that, I don't know whats really causing the drop off...lack of effort, conserving more energy for offense because he values that more...and injury he's battling through...

whatever it is he has been awful this year on that end.

RJ coming out of college was closer to 204 pounds. Of course when guys get to the league a lot of them want to put on weight/improve their frame. This past summer he noticeably bulked up and if I had to guess he’s closer to 218 now. He simply looks more plodding to me than ever before.

He’s also playing 35min a night and I truly believe it would benefit him on both sides of the ball if his minutes were cut down to 30.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I agree that I don't see RJ spending his entire career as a knick. They put him in the Donovan Mitchell trade...they will probably put him in the next star trade as well. That also doesn't mean he's an albatross contract. Because a 22 year old putting up 20 ppg is far from an albatross. Do you want him to be more EFF yes...the defensive drop off is probably the most concerning because you can live with below avg EFF on off if he was also a + 2 way wing.

I just don't ever seeing that contract becoming an albatross since the CBA currently is likely to end in 2023-24. As that contract kicks in the NBA salary cap is going to continue to skyrocket with the new TV deal.

There are rumors the projected cap in 2025 is going to be like 171 MM. A 25-30% of the cap will be around 50 MM. RJ's salary will be in the mid 20's around then.

The new CBA may change a lot of things. It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. Some of the legacy contracts that are questionable may look like bargains. I wonder if that is part of the front offices thinking, and even with picking up Hart and likely paying him.

Could be...all new deals come with some kind of sticker shock. I'm sure Daniel Jones will as well. But the point is agents aren't dumb they are also negotiating parts of what the salary cap will be during the life of the contract.

RJ deal next year in terms of the cap might be a bit high...but the remaining year of that after the new CBA kicks in will look perfectly fine even if his production stays relatively the same.

He needs to get his defense back to league avg levels though.

Either way RJ def has to improve on some things. A lot of it seems pretty fixable, and others are things that players typically improve on from ages 22 to 25…just looking around the league and there are a number of players who have made leaps during those years. But improvement is one of those things that you never know, and nobody can say for sure.

Overall fit is a different issue, and if there’s a move to upgrade RJ may be the piece needed. For now it’s best for all if he can finish the season strong. If RJ can eventually be one of those to make a leap it would be such a huge boost. It might be worth holding onto that at this point unless something good comes along.