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"Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks?" (video analysis)

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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#61 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Jan 11, 2024 3:51 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
Knicks Byke wrote:Reserving judgment until playoff performance.

He still is A problem with his IQ but maybe he wasnt THE problem if that makes sense. Seems like RJ was hurting the SL more.


his passing looks really good this season. he makes a lot less mistakes on the reads. the tazmanian devil stuff is all but overwith.

i wouldn't make it about RJ hurting the SL as much as the two of them together continued to be an evidently poor fit. neither has to be "the problem." the whole framing of this discussion is problematic.

He reverts to some bad habits when he's the lone starter with the 2nd unit. It's annoying and hopefully wears off. Other than that he's played well. So far.

They needed to break up RJ and Randle. I'd have been ok with either one going out. Chanel needs to take more victory laps
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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#62 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Jan 11, 2024 3:53 pm

DOT wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:AND this. like... it all can be true. this isn't necessarily a zero-sum game. we have yet to see this man perform well in the postseason for a variety of reasons. i think he was ready to put the atlanta series behind him last season before getting hurt, but we never got the evidence. inshallah, we do this season.

It's just too early to have this discussion

If he plays like this in the playoffs and we go on a run to the ECF or something, that should start silencing the criticisms of him. Until then, good on him for breaking out of his funk at the start of the year, but I don't really care about regular season Randle anymore.


sure. fair enough.
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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#63 » by KNIXFAN_83 » Thu Jan 11, 2024 3:54 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
HerSports85 wrote:Come on now. Every thread doesn’t have to lead to an RJ debate.


this. and not EVERY post needs to be enganged/challenged. :nonono: we can do better.


You can’t just tell Knicks fans to stop comparing when management chose Julius over the youth. If we did right by them what we would have done was started IQ year one and trade Randle either at the deadline or after the season for a (3D wing something OG) which would have freed up minutes for Obi.

We would have then had
IQ
RJ
(Wing)
Obi
Robinson

This would have been ideal for each players skillsets. So we have to keep comparing because we are finally seeing these players in a system not coached by Thibs. And from the looks of it we may have left something on the table.
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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#64 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Jan 11, 2024 3:55 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
Knicks Byke wrote:Reserving judgment until playoff performance.

He still is A problem with his IQ but maybe he wasnt THE problem if that makes sense. Seems like RJ was hurting the SL more.


his passing looks really good this season. he makes a lot less mistakes on the reads. the tazmanian devil stuff is all but overwith.

i wouldn't make it about RJ hurting the SL as much as the two of them together continued to be an evidently poor fit. neither has to be "the problem." the whole framing of this discussion is problematic.

He reverts to some bad habits when he's the lone starter with the 2nd unit. It's annoying and hopefully wears off. Other than that he's played well. So far.

They needed to break up RJ and Randle. I'd have been ok with either one going out. Chanel needs to take more victory laps


i did peep that during this run. it's a little concerning. not sure he's the guy who should be the starter with the second unit. but i also know that is partly because of our dearth of bigs at the moment. having mitch or someone else valid in the backup 5 position would leave us to letting another starter run with that group. i did like that thibs tried a little of OG there the other day.
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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#65 » by j4remi » Thu Jan 11, 2024 3:55 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:The first four parts, or so, cover Julius's history in the league from when he was drafted by the Lakers. It then covers his free agent signings with the Pelicans and then with the Knicks. The interesting parts of the video start at Part 5 which covers last season and the playoffs. It then covers this season up to the RJ/OG trade including the changes Julius has made to his game.

I think that once you watch it, you'll see how bad Randle's ankle was. It doesn't excuse everything but it provides enough context so that we shouldn't be burying him as a choke artist in the playoffs.



omg, i don't know if i have the time to watch a 40-minute randle doc. but i been saying you have to take the ankle into consideration for last season. man was going BRAZY last season until that happened. it's obvious he tried to play through it. randle ain't perfect, but i've never questioned his general/overall commitment, effort, and work ethic. all i really ever ask is he commit on defense and figure out how to keep his composure. even those things seem to be getting better. but we've also created a team environment conducive to maximizing him, which is nice to see.


I think he started showing signs of mental and physical fatigue before the ankle injury, but everything fell off a cliff after the ankle. I'm optimistic about him putting it all together this season for a few reasons:
- His decision-making and shot-selection are MUCH improved compared to prior years, even by his own admission in a Fred Katz article last week.

- He's been improving his temperament incrementally since the "thumbs down" season, and this year has been markedly better. I saw Jalen Brunson get between him and a ref this past week, and instead of shoving Brunson like he did with IQ last year, he accepted it and cooled off.

- The team is built better for him. The team Randle vs. team RJ nonsense boils down to Randle and RJ not fitting together. Everyone knew one of them had to go, but people picked sides instead of acknowledging that both guys would get better after a split. Randle will have better spacing and more defensive help to cover his flaws as a player, which overlap with RJ's (inconsistent shooting, lackluster defense, and losing their heads).

But i'm also not about to relitigate the past few seasons from Randle being problematic in a bunch of obvious ways. Anyone who grew up on 90's Knicks ball should recognize why older Knicks fans generally found his mentality off-putting. He's a great player, but the things he did poorly were particularly galling to people who grew up watching less talented guys get further by checking their egos.

But I'll repeat, Randle seems to have come around starting last season and especially this year. If you get the buy-in that guys like 90's players had under Riley but make them as gifted as Randle, it's a recipe that could be special. Playoff Brunson + THIS Randle with OG and the Center tandem defending...that's a tough 7 game series for damn near ANYBODY (the C's still feel like a bad match-up play for play, so they're my Eastern Conference exception).
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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#66 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:00 pm

KNIXFAN_83 wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
HerSports85 wrote:Come on now. Every thread doesn’t have to lead to an RJ debate.


this. and not EVERY post needs to be enganged/challenged. :nonono: we can do better.


You can’t just tell Knicks fans to stop comparing when management chose Julius over the youth.


not at all what i was saying. went over your head.

i'm saying not every post needs to be dignified with a response.
RIP magnumt

thanks for everything, thibs.

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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#67 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:01 pm

j4remi wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:The first four parts, or so, cover Julius's history in the league from when he was drafted by the Lakers. It then covers his free agent signings with the Pelicans and then with the Knicks. The interesting parts of the video start at Part 5 which covers last season and the playoffs. It then covers this season up to the RJ/OG trade including the changes Julius has made to his game.

I think that once you watch it, you'll see how bad Randle's ankle was. It doesn't excuse everything but it provides enough context so that we shouldn't be burying him as a choke artist in the playoffs.



omg, i don't know if i have the time to watch a 40-minute randle doc. but i been saying you have to take the ankle into consideration for last season. man was going BRAZY last season until that happened. it's obvious he tried to play through it. randle ain't perfect, but i've never questioned his general/overall commitment, effort, and work ethic. all i really ever ask is he commit on defense and figure out how to keep his composure. even those things seem to be getting better. but we've also created a team environment conducive to maximizing him, which is nice to see.


I think he started showing signs of mental and physical fatigue before the ankle injury, but everything fell off a cliff after the ankle. I'm optimistic about him putting it all together this season for a few reasons:
- His decision-making and shot-selection are MUCH improved compared to prior years, even by his own admission in a Fred Katz article last week.

- He's been improving his temperament incrementally since the "thumbs down" season, and this year has been markedly better. I saw Jalen Brunson get between him and a ref this past week, and instead of shoving Brunson like he did with IQ last year, he accepted it and cooled off.

- The team is built better for him. The team Randle vs. team RJ nonsense boils down to Randle and RJ not fitting together. Everyone knew one of them had to go, but people picked sides instead of acknowledging that both guys would get better after a split. Randle will have better spacing and more defensive help to cover his flaws as a player, which overlap with RJ's (inconsistent shooting, lackluster defense, and losing their heads).

But i'm also not about to relitigate the past few seasons from Randle being problematic in a bunch of obvious ways. Anyone who grew up on 90's Knicks ball should recognize why older Knicks fans generally found his mentality off-putting. He's a great player, but the things he did poorly were particularly galling to people who grew up watching less talented guys get further by checking their egos.

But I'll repeat, Randle seems to have come around starting last season and especially this year. If you get the buy-in that guys like 90's players had under Riley but make them as gifted as Randle, it's a recipe that could be special. Playoff Brunson + THIS Randle with OG and the Center tandem defending...that's a tough 7 game series for damn near ANYBODY (the C's still feel like a bad match-up play for play, so they're my Eastern Conference exception).


this why i always fux with you, remi.
RIP magnumt

thanks for everything, thibs.

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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#68 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:02 pm

Remember when people thought Randle hated IQ
Immanuel Quickley on Julius Randle:

"I also started looking around me at how other guys moved, who had been in this league longer than me, just having a mindset that I could always be adding to my game. Julius was a big one for me.

I remember I got a text from him the night I got traded. He said, 'It don’t matter where you at. I got you, man. Anything you need.' With all the craziness of the night, that was really reassuring, but it especially meant something coming from him.

He’s another guy that’s been like a brother to me. I’ve learned so much from him. One of the biggest things I think I’ve taken away, especially because he’s been around Kobe, is just his mindset. Sometimes in the gym, anybody can vouch, I’ll just watch him — how he prepares, how he goes about his work and his daily habits. How he goes through his workouts.

From time to time, I’d just text him to pick his brain like, 'What’s your mindset before a game?' When you’ve been around the best, you know what it takes in a different way, and he’s always willing to share any knowledge he has.

That’s my guy, always."
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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#69 » by Stannis » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:06 pm

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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#70 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:07 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:Remember when people thought Randle hated IQ


i don't, actually. that was a thing?
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thanks for everything, thibs.

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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#71 » by Buttah304 » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:08 pm

Everyone…

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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#72 » by KNIXFAN_83 » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:09 pm

Stannis wrote:


Gonna be difficult this time if he strikes out again in the playoffs. We just love to gamble.
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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#73 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:10 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Remember when people thought Randle hated IQ


i don't, actually. that was a thing?

Randle yelled at IQ one game and people thought Randle hated him
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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#74 » by dakomish23 » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:16 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
his passing looks really good this season. he makes a lot less mistakes on the reads. the tazmanian devil stuff is all but overwith.

i wouldn't make it about RJ hurting the SL as much as the two of them together continued to be an evidently poor fit. neither has to be "the problem." the whole framing of this discussion is problematic.

He reverts to some bad habits when he's the lone starter with the 2nd unit. It's annoying and hopefully wears off. Other than that he's played well. So far.

They needed to break up RJ and Randle. I'd have been ok with either one going out. Chanel needs to take more victory laps


i did peep that during this run. it's a little concerning. not sure he's the guy who should be the starter with the second unit. but i also know that is partly because of our dearth of bigs at the moment. having mitch or someone else valid in the backup 5 position would leave us to letting another starter run with that group. i did like that thibs tried a little of OG there the other day.


The problem might be when he’s w/ Precious instead of Hartenstein

J. Randle - I. Hartenstein - J. Hart - Q. Grimes - M. McBride
6 games
21 mins
128.9 ORTG
102.4 DRTG
26.4 NRTG

J. Randle - J. Hart - Q. Grimes - P. Achiuwa - M. McBride
4 games
10 mins
95.2 ORTG
161.9 DRTG
-66.7 NRTG
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#75 » by cgf » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:20 pm

KNIXFAN_83 wrote:Julius has always been the problem along with Thibs inability to make adjustments. Look at how Toronto is playing. The game is organically being played and RJ is surfacing as the top guy. Similar here when we played a team game RJ would always stick out. The problem was ISO ball doesn’t work with RJ and he’s often left forcing bad shots with the clock winding down or standing in corner watching Julius. The only reason OG is working out because he doesn’t get in Randle or Jalen way. IQ and RJ are creators and the Knicks didn’t allow them too. They look like Lowery and Derozen 2.0 and are only going to get better. OG has mad us better but this run might unfortunately be the peak. Because this team will be judge on playoff success or lack of and that’s where it falls on Julius. Julius was not a good fit with IQ or RJ and now we have to win with him.

One thing Julius never did was throw the ball ahead to get easy baskets. He consistently trots up court at his pace and that would limit Rj and Iq getting easy shots. Then he never went to the corner or paint but rather the top of the key where now a wing had to go to the corner and stand there. Julius and Thibs have always been the issue holding the younger players back. Thinking other wise you simply are a homer and can’t be unbiased. We simply have to win with Julius now or run the risk of once again selling our youth too soon instead of building the old fashion way.


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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#76 » by j4remi » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:24 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:i don't, actually. that was a thing?


Outside of a small vocal group, I don't think it was. Just a typical Randle tantrum that happened to be worse than normal, since it included him actively going at teammates (and I think they had a player-only meeting after the game if I'm not mistaken...it was during a bad streak).
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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#77 » by Stannis » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:26 pm

I'm refreshing to see Chanel's comment on this matter.
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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#78 » by Juco24 » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:31 pm

Just why???
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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#79 » by Capn'O » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:50 pm

j4remi wrote:- He's been improving his temperament incrementally since the "thumbs down" season, and this year has been markedly better. I saw Jalen Brunson get between him and a ref this past week, and instead of shoving Brunson like he did with IQ last year, he accepted it and cooled off.


Yeah, but that also might show the pecking order. JB called time out after that as well. God I love Brunson.

Irregardless, whether it's Jule's maturity or him letting the leader cool him down it's good that we have a mechanism to get him back in his right head.
BAF Clippers

PG: Brunson/Coleworld
SG: CJ/Merrill
SF: Black/Thybulle
PF: Kuminga/Kenrich Williams
C: Looney/Sharpe

Hugo | DWade | Craig Porter | Dadiet | Minott


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Re: Is Julius Randle the problem on the Knicks? (video analysis) 

Post#80 » by j4remi » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:57 pm

Capn'O wrote:
j4remi wrote:- He's been improving his temperament incrementally since the "thumbs down" season, and this year has been markedly better. I saw Jalen Brunson get between him and a ref this past week, and instead of shoving Brunson like he did with IQ last year, he accepted it and cooled off.


Yeah, but that also might show the pecking order. JB called time out after that as well. God I love Brunson.

Irregardless, whether it's Jule's maturity or him letting the leader cool him down it's good that we have a mechanism to get him back in his right head.


Yeah, whether we credit the teammates or Randle himself, the most important part is that everything is in place to help him keep his cool. It's perfect timing, too, because if he has another rough postseason, there will be enough time to try and move him before he opts out for that All-NBA pay.

If he has the postseason we're all hoping for, he'll be worth the price of keeping.
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