OT- Trump found guilty in Hush Money Trial

[Jalen Bluntson]

Hope he likes prison food....and penis!

I read some bits from a law professor saying that this is kind of a shaky legal footing that these charges stem from. Something about jurisdiction and such. Can anyone say with any certainty this isn't reversed on appeal?

[Jeffrey]

I just want to say... not even less than 1 hour of the 34 count verdict.. his website started to ask his supporters for money to the 34 guilty verdict. GRIFTING 24/7 job

[Clyde_Style]

Hope he likes prison food....and penis!

I read some bits from a law professor saying that this is kind of a shaky legal footing that these charges stem from. Something about jurisdiction and such. Can anyone say with any certainty this isn't reversed on appeal?

All of the commentators who said it was shaky were countered by more who said it was solid.

Look at the 3 sets of counts. They are precise, not vague.

Bragg set this up with the forensic details that shows there was fraud and cooking the books. They even had the accountant's handwriting proving it.

The Judge took special care in their jury instructions to avoid any misunderstandings on what the basis for conviction should be. He explicitly stated the motive is not what the jury should focus on, but the simple facts of whether or not they lied and faked the payments. This way the case is hard to overturn on appeals. A judge's jury instructions are critical to the review of the case by appeals courts and this judge kept it very clean. It will be very hard to overturn this.

[Riot Randolph]

All you're doing here is moving the goal posts. A few months ago you'd have said he would never get convicted. Now you're pretending he won't be punished. It is not partisanship that got Trump into this mess. It was Trump. Deflecting will only back you further into the corner you're already in.

Except I’m not in a corner. This is like when the mugshot dropped. Then nobody cared. He’s not serving any jail time for this. All this shows is that the dems can’t beat him on the issues. And btw I’m not even a Trump guy, but Biden is a disaster and the country can’t afford another 4 years of him in office. I rather give Trump another 4 since his administration was at least competent economy wise, and take it from there. Our political system is a joke. So yeah…Trump 2024 lol

And what are you going to post on July 12th if he is sentenced to prison time?

Will you say he'll appeal it and win? Because he wouldn't win those appeals and he'd have to serve that time.

And I have no idea what you're talking about because he lost by 7 million votes.

You say Biden is a disaster. How?

What competence did Trump show on economics?

Trump promised a new infrastructure bill every week for 4 years and produced nothing. Biden got it done

Trump promised to confront China and did nothing. Biden just shut down China's access to our electric car markets to ensure we don't ever become held hostage by their supply chain ever again and will be able to sustain our own domestic EV industry right here at home.

Biden inherited the economic conditions created under Trump that led to our inflation and he has been bringing it back down.

Trump handled covid like a clown and the country got shut down even worse than it should have been, leaving it for Biden to deal with. And Biden got a vaccine out in record time and put things back in motion

Trump's idea of management was shutting down the federal government out of spite and putting federal workers out of work for extended periods of time. Great economic skills there

Trump promised to bring back domestic manufacture and companies that backed him on those promises said he lied and they went to Mexico to get things built. Biden is backing unions and labor and is working to rebuild their capacity to bring American Made back

I could on and on about the BS people spew about Biden. You've got anything concrete to share other than vague anger at the man?

it’s a shame Dems are so inept at messaging because Biden has had a solid presidency

[Jalen Bluntson]

Hope he likes prison food....and penis!

I read some bits from a law professor saying that this is kind of a shaky legal footing that these charges stem from. Something about jurisdiction and such. Can anyone say with any certainty this isn't reversed on appeal?

All of the commentators who said it was shaky were countered by more who said it was solid.

Look at the 3 sets of counts. They are precise, not vague.

Bragg set this up with the forensic details that shows there was fraud and cooking the books. They even had the accountant's handwriting proving it.

The Judge took special care in their jury instructions to avoid any misunderstandings on what the basis for conviction should be. He explicitly stated the motive is not what the jury should focus on, but the simple facts of whether or not they lied and faked the payments. This way the case is hard to overturn on appeals. A judge's jury instructions are critical to the review of the case by appeals courts and this judge kept it very clean. It will be very hard to overturn this.

To recap: Mr. Trump is accused in the case of falsifying business records. Those are misdemeanor charges. To elevate it to a criminal case, Mr. Bragg and his team have pointed to potential violations of federal election law and state tax fraud. They also cite state election law, but state statutory definitions of “public office” seem to limit those statutes to state and local races.

Both the misdemeanor and felony charges require that the defendant made the false record with “intent to defraud.” A year ago, I wondered how entirely internal business records (the daily ledger, pay stubs and invoices) could be the basis of any fraud if they are not shared with anyone outside the business. I suggested that the real fraud was Mr. Trump’s filing an (allegedly) false report to the Federal Election Commission, and that only federal prosecutors had jurisdiction over that filing.

[...]

A recent conversation with Jeffrey Cohen, a friend, Boston College law professor and former prosecutor, made me think that the case could turn out to be more legitimate than I had originally thought. The reason has to do with those allegedly falsified business records: Most of them were entered in early 2017, generally before Mr. Trump filed his Federal Election Commission report that summer. Mr. Trump may have foreseen an investigation into his campaign, leading to its financial records. He may have falsely recorded these internal records before the F.E.C. filing as consciously part of the same fraud: to create a consistent paper trail and to hide intent to violate federal election laws, or defraud the F.E.C.

In short: It’s not the crime; it’s the cover-up.

Looking at the case in this way might address concerns about state jurisdiction. In this scenario, Mr. Trump arguably intended to deceive state investigators, too. State investigators could find these inconsistencies and alert federal agencies. Prosecutors could argue that New York State agencies have an interest in detecting conspiracies to defraud federal entities; they might also have a plausible answer to significant questions about whether New York State has jurisdiction or whether this stretch of a state business filing law is pre-empted by federal law.

However, this explanation is a novel interpretation with many significant legal problems. And none of the Manhattan district attorney’s filings or today’s opening statement even hint at this approach.

Instead of a theory of defrauding state regulators, Mr. Bragg has adopted a weak theory of “election interference,” and Justice Juan Merchan described the case, in his summary of it during jury selection, as an allegation of falsifying business records “to conceal an agreement with others to unlawfully influence the 2016 election.”

This is what's confusing me.

[Clyde_Style]

Except I’m not in a corner. This is like when the mugshot dropped. Then nobody cared. He’s not serving any jail time for this. All this shows is that the dems can’t beat him on the issues. And btw I’m not even a Trump guy, but Biden is a disaster and the country can’t afford another 4 years of him in office. I rather give Trump another 4 since his administration was at least competent economy wise, and take it from there. Our political system is a joke. So yeah…Trump 2024 lol

And what are you going to post on July 12th if he is sentenced to prison time?

Will you say he'll appeal it and win? Because he wouldn't win those appeals and he'd have to serve that time.

And I have no idea what you're talking about because he lost by 7 million votes.

You say Biden is a disaster. How?

What competence did Trump show on economics?

Trump promised a new infrastructure bill every week for 4 years and produced nothing. Biden got it done

Trump promised to confront China and did nothing. Biden just shut down China's access to our electric car markets to ensure we don't ever become held hostage by their supply chain ever again and will be able to sustain our own domestic EV industry right here at home.

Biden inherited the economic conditions created under Trump that led to our inflation and he has been bringing it back down.

Trump handled covid like a clown and the country got shut down even worse than it should have been, leaving it for Biden to deal with. And Biden got a vaccine out in record time and put things back in motion

Trump's idea of management was shutting down the federal government out of spite and putting federal workers out of work for extended periods of time. Great economic skills there

Trump promised to bring back domestic manufacture and companies that backed him on those promises said he lied and they went to Mexico to get things built. Biden is backing unions and labor and is working to rebuild their capacity to bring American Made back

I could on and on about the BS people spew about Biden. You've got anything concrete to share other than vague anger at the man?

it’s a shame Dems are so inept at messaging because Biden has had a solid presidency

They are starting to wake up. And Biden is campaigning now and doing it well. His State of the Union address was probably the most successful one in decades. The problem is the media is propping up Trump like Weekend at Bernies to promote the idea that Trump can win and Biden can't fix all of that programming bias himself.

What they are doing is they are making inroads back into traditional Democrat constituencies like labor that had gone to the Republicans, but were historically Democrat. A real danger now is the illiteracy of 20 year old voters being wooed by fascists on Twitter and Tik Tok. There are some profoundly stupid kids these days.

[DOT]

I'm surprised that this thread is still open

Interesting. And, I probably should have known that but I didn't. It seems RFK didn't get the Libertarian primary. Some cat named Chase Oliver did. RFK's running as an independent.

I hate 3rd party candidates in a 2 party system.

What do Americans hate about libertarians? Just that they don't want the government to be larger?

libertarian politics are weird to me because why should we have government that doesn't look out for and protect the best interests of the public?

What does "small government" really mean?

The idea that a civilized society should be the wild wild west is asinine to me.

There are very few true libertarians in America

Most fall into 3 groups:

1. Republicans who don't like to openly call themselves Republicans (this is the largest group)

2. Republicans who like drugs

3. Republicans who want to get rid of the age of consent

But true "libertarian" beliefs fall apart the moment you stop to think about them, like how the current Libertarian Party candidate for president thinks we should get rid of environmental regulations because the "free market" will regulate itself and corporations will naturally fix Climate Change. That's legitimately a crazy thing to believe, yet it's how Libertarians approach all issues.

[Clyde_Style]

Hope he likes prison food....and penis!

I read some bits from a law professor saying that this is kind of a shaky legal footing that these charges stem from. Something about jurisdiction and such. Can anyone say with any certainty this isn't reversed on appeal?

All of the commentators who said it was shaky were countered by more who said it was solid.

Look at the 3 sets of counts. They are precise, not vague.

Bragg set this up with the forensic details that shows there was fraud and cooking the books. They even had the accountant's handwriting proving it.

The Judge took special care in their jury instructions to avoid any misunderstandings on what the basis for conviction should be. He explicitly stated the motive is not what the jury should focus on, but the simple facts of whether or not they lied and faked the payments. This way the case is hard to overturn on appeals. A judge's jury instructions are critical to the review of the case by appeals courts and this judge kept it very clean. It will be very hard to overturn this.

To recap: Mr. Trump is accused in the case of falsifying business records. Those are misdemeanor charges. To elevate it to a criminal case, Mr. Bragg and his team have pointed to potential violations of federal election law and state tax fraud. They also cite state election law, but state statutory definitions of “public office” seem to limit those statutes to state and local races.

Both the misdemeanor and felony charges require that the defendant made the false record with “intent to defraud.” A year ago, I wondered how entirely internal business records (the daily ledger, pay stubs and invoices) could be the basis of any fraud if they are not shared with anyone outside the business. I suggested that the real fraud was Mr. Trump’s filing an (allegedly) false report to the Federal Election Commission, and that only federal prosecutors had jurisdiction over that filing.

[...]

A recent conversation with Jeffrey Cohen, a friend, Boston College law professor and former prosecutor, made me think that the case could turn out to be more legitimate than I had originally thought. The reason has to do with those allegedly falsified business records: Most of them were entered in early 2017, generally before Mr. Trump filed his Federal Election Commission report that summer. Mr. Trump may have foreseen an investigation into his campaign, leading to its financial records. He may have falsely recorded these internal records before the F.E.C. filing as consciously part of the same fraud: to create a consistent paper trail and to hide intent to violate federal election laws, or defraud the F.E.C.

In short: It’s not the crime; it’s the cover-up.

Looking at the case in this way might address concerns about state jurisdiction. In this scenario, Mr. Trump arguably intended to deceive state investigators, too. State investigators could find these inconsistencies and alert federal agencies. Prosecutors could argue that New York State agencies have an interest in detecting conspiracies to defraud federal entities; they might also have a plausible answer to significant questions about whether New York State has jurisdiction or whether this stretch of a state business filing law is pre-empted by federal law.

However, this explanation is a novel interpretation with many significant legal problems. And none of the Manhattan district attorney’s filings or today’s opening statement even hint at this approach.

Instead of a theory of defrauding state regulators, Mr. Bragg has adopted a weak theory of “election interference,” and Justice Juan Merchan described the case, in his summary of it during jury selection, as an allegation of falsifying business records “to conceal an agreement with others to unlawfully influence the 2016 election.”

This is what's confusing me.

if you delete, alter or make a false entry in the business records of an enterprise and you do so with the intent to defraud, you have run afoul of the misdemeanor crime. If when you do so, you also have the intent to further or conceal another criminal offense, then you have committed the felony crime.

IOW, it is not so much of question of what the other offense is (election fraud), but that you falsified business records in order to commit another crime that would be a felony. That makes the falsified records a felony. Therefore, it makes perfect sense that Judge Merchan limited the scope of the jury's deliberations to the question of whether or not records were falsified without requiring them to consider the motive for doing so.

[cgmw]

And the fun part is that Trump's base only gets stronger. As he said himself, he could shoot a man dead in Times Square and they'd vote for him.

Frank Bruni had an excellent op-ed today in the Times. The uneducated and socially isolated (rural) base absolutely love Trump's combination of "any news is good news" + "the system is a rigged witch hunt" victimhood. He's not just controlling their attention, he's controlling their reality.

A white collar slap on the wrist from a jury of Manhattanites won't slow him down, but it very well could accelerate his popularity.

I could be wrong, but I think the nation and the world would survive 4 more years of Trump. If it happens, it's what we deserve for creating a hundred million+ walking, talking idiots controlled by unregulated big business. IMO our economy is too damn strong for the US to become North Korea or Russia anytime soon. No American dictator will ever be stronger than the Fortune 500.

[Clyde_Style]

And the fun part is that Trump's base only gets stronger. As he said himself, he could shoot a man dead in Times Square and they'd vote for him.

Frank Bruni had an excellent op-ed today in the Times. The uneducated and socially isolated (rural) base absolutely love Trump's combination of "any news is good news" + "the system is a rigged witch hunt" victimhood. He's not just controlling their attention, he's controlling their reality.

A white collar slap on the wrist from a jury of Manhattanites won't slow him down, but it very well could accelerate his popularity.

I could be wrong, but I think the nation and the world would survive 4 more years of Trump. If it happens, it's what we deserve for creating a hundred million+ walking, talking idiots controlled by unregulated big business. IMO our economy is too damn strong for the US to become North Korea or Russia anytime soon. No American dictator will ever be stronger than the Fortune 500.

Except the Fortune 100 may be down with profiting off prisons, tanks in the streets and ramping up weapons production while turning a blind eye to suspending habeas corpus and assassinating your opponents which is what Trump wants to do as a self-admitted wannabe dictator. The profit motive was good for the bottom lines of Volkswagen and BMW. It's not like they were going to step between Hitler and democratic process.

[seren]

Trump will unfortunately win in November. Doesnt matter he shoots someone in the middle of times square.

No he won't. He lost by 7 million votes to the same person and he has lost more support in that time. There are actually more people who think Biden is a good president than people who don't. The people who believe he's a good president show up and vote. The ones who claim he sucks talk a lot and vote less and there are less of them. Just because some big states have more vocal Trump supporters doesn't give Trump any kind of electoral advantage. They're just loud and obnoxious about their convictions whereas those who vote for Biden and the Democrats show their convictions at the polls. Dozens of elections since the last general election have proven that polls say Republicans will win have been consistently wrong. You don't get margins of victory by 15% when you were told you would lose because you don't have support. Biden's support is out there. The gum flappers are deluding themselves if they believe otherwise.

I know Trump is teflon to his base, but the barely engaged know-nothing voter is going to be influenced by his convictions and by his senility. He just slept through this past trial. His mind is shot. Now watch what happens next. He will pull out of the debates with Biden. Because if he doesn't that will sink him even worse. He's rapidly devolving into dementia and that will very much influence his fortunes.

Unfortunately without current electoral college system, you may end up getting millions of more votes and still lose the elections. The 2020 election is much closer than that 7 million difference. “44,000 votes in Georgia, Arizona and Wisconsin separated Biden and Trump from a tie in the Electoral College”. This is from NPR.

Right now the polls show Trump is ahead in six of seven swing states. Gaza situation and general unhappiness with the economy (which I disagree, the economy is fine) will most likely keep some people who voted for Biden in 2020 at home. Add to that, there was huge energy in the base at that time. Recall the promise of $2000 checks back then Biden was promoting. And independents were backing Biden being frustrated with Trump’s complete mishandling of Covid situation. Despite all of that, Trump got record number of votes for a republican and the election came down to that 44,000 votes.

Fast forward, I see no energy from Democratic base. On the contrary, Biden is scared to even go to Chicago for his nomination with all the protests going on and he will do a virtual one. Independents seem to be under the illusion economy is tanking even though real wages are higher now and unemployment rate is historically low. On the other side, Republicans are still supporting Trump. His approval numbers are higher now than when he left the office. Honestly, I don’t think Dems are understanding how bad November will be. I can see a Republican trifecta.

[Clyde_Style]

Trump will unfortunately win in November. Doesnt matter he shoots someone in the middle of times square.

No he won't. He lost by 7 million votes to the same person and he has lost more support in that time. There are actually more people who think Biden is a good president than people who don't. The people who believe he's a good president show up and vote. The ones who claim he sucks talk a lot and vote less and there are less of them. Just because some big states have more vocal Trump supporters doesn't give Trump any kind of electoral advantage. They're just loud and obnoxious about their convictions whereas those who vote for Biden and the Democrats show their convictions at the polls. Dozens of elections since the last general election have proven that polls say Republicans will win have been consistently wrong. You don't get margins of victory by 15% when you were told you would lose because you don't have support. Biden's support is out there. The gum flappers are deluding themselves if they believe otherwise.

I know Trump is teflon to his base, but the barely engaged know-nothing voter is going to be influenced by his convictions and by his senility. He just slept through this past trial. His mind is shot. Now watch what happens next. He will pull out of the debates with Biden. Because if he doesn't that will sink him even worse. He's rapidly devolving into dementia and that will very much influence his fortunes.

Unfortunately without current electoral college system, you may end up getting millions of more votes and still lose the elections. The 2020 election is much closer than that 7 million difference. “44,000 votes in Georgia, Arizona and Wisconsin separated Biden and Trump from a tie in the Electoral College”. This is from NPR.

Right now the polls show Trump is ahead in six of seven swing states. Gaza situation and general unhappiness with the economy (which I disagree, the economy is fine) will most likely keep some people who voted for Biden in 2020 at home. Add to that, there was huge energy in the base at that time. Recall the promise of $2000 checks back then Biden was promoting. And independents were backing Biden being frustrated with Trump’s complete mishandling of Covid situation. Despite all of that, Trump got record number of votes for a republican and the election came down to that 44,000 votes.

Fast forward, I see no energy from Democratic base. On the contrary, Biden is scared to even go to Chicago for his nomination with all the protests going on and he will do a virtual one. Independents seem to be under the illusion economy is tanking even though real wages are higher now and unemployment rate is historically low. On the other side, Republicans are still supporting Trump. His approval numbers are higher now than when he left the office. Honestly, I don’t think Dems are understanding how bad November will be. I can see a Republican trifecta.

I don't believe it. Remember the red wave of 2020 that failed to materialize? It was a blue wave that has continued for several years now

There has been lots of energy on the state level around the country with Democrats winning in former GOP strongholds. The abortion referendum turnout in Ohio was huge and totally blew away the predicted results. You're totally discounting the effect of the overturning of Roe v. Wade will continue to have on this next election

https://abcnews.go.com/538/democrats-winning-big-special-elections/story?id=103315703

[WaltFrazier]

Canadian here. It still boggles my mind the Dems can't get a center left competent candidate in his 50s or early 60s. Biden is pretty senile when I hear him speak.

[Snacks]

New York City to the rest of America “You’re Welcome”.

I'm a lifelong democrat, but I'm not happy with this outcome. I'm not unhappy with it, but the whole thing feels like a mess more than a happy outcome.

Does anyone else feel that way, or is it just me? (democrats only please, obviously republicans might not be happy with this outcome).

you feel this way b/c it's true.
Regular courts don't try the military, they are not built to. If they did b/c they had no other choice, we might get the right outcome but it would be pretty messy.
Regular courts shouldn't try government officials. this piece of **** attempted a coup as a sitting president, Congress should of acted and but the Republican cowards did not act appropriately.
Now, a former President is being tried in regular courts b/c that's all that's left. I'm happy with the outcome, but it's a mess.

[Clyde_Style]

New York City to the rest of America “You’re Welcome”.

I'm a lifelong democrat, but I'm not happy with this outcome. I'm not unhappy with it, but the whole thing feels like a mess more than a happy outcome.

Does anyone else feel that way, or is it just me? (democrats only please, obviously republicans might not be happy with this outcome).

you feel this way b/c it's true.
Regular courts don't try the military, they are not built to. If they did b/c they had no other choice, we might get the right outcome but it would be pretty messy.
Regular courts shouldn't try government officials. this piece of **** attempted a coup as a sitting president, Congress should of acted and but the Republican cowards did not act appropriately.
Now, a former President is being tried in regular courts b/c that's all that's left. I'm happy with the outcome, but it's a mess.

You're describing a caste system that insulates government officials. Where did this idea come from?

Isn't the point of a justice system that actually works is to show no one is above the law?

[Luv those Knicks]

No, he's just a spoiler who attracts conspiracy nuts. Libertarians are not particularly supporting him.

Interesting. And, I probably should have known that but I didn't. It seems RFK didn't get the Libertarian primary. Some cat named Chase Oliver did. RFK's running as an independent.

I hate 3rd party candidates in a 2 party system.

What do Americans hate about libertarians? Just that they don't want the government to be larger?

Libertarians hate me for saying this, but the reason I don't like libertarians in politics is because small government does nothing but give more to the rich. It's exactly what we don't need right now and it's very far right republican. I know some libertarians, and I like them as people, but I strongly disagree with their politics. There's a reason why libertarians vote with the republican party, and I'm about as anti-republican as you can get.

Libertarianism is kind of like communism. It sounds good. It feels good, but it's terrible in practice.

[Luv those Knicks]

Canadian here. It still boggles my mind the Dems can't get a center left competent candidate in his 50s or early 60s. Biden is pretty senile when I hear him speak.

I think Biden has been an above average president, but I also don't like to hear him speak. He doesn't look presidential.

That said, I'll take a competant president with smart people around him over someone who looks the part but doesn't do the job well any day of the week. I share your opinion of Biden, but I'll have no problem voting for him.

[Luv those Knicks]

I'm a lifelong democrat, but I'm not happy with this outcome. I'm not unhappy with it, but the whole thing feels like a mess more than a happy outcome.

Does anyone else feel that way, or is it just me? (democrats only please, obviously republicans might not be happy with this outcome).

you feel this way b/c it's true.
Regular courts don't try the military, they are not built to. If they did b/c they had no other choice, we might get the right outcome but it would be pretty messy.
Regular courts shouldn't try government officials. this piece of **** attempted a coup as a sitting president, Congress should of acted and but the Republican cowards did not act appropriately.
Now, a former President is being tried in regular courts b/c that's all that's left. I'm happy with the outcome, but it's a mess.

You're describing a caste system that insulates government officials. Where did this idea come from?

Isn't the point of a justice system that actually works is to show no one is above the law?

I don't object to the way Trump was tried.

Where my bad feelings comes in, is that I think Trump was honestly not smart enough to know how badly he was breaking the law. I feel like he's being punished, in part for his crimes, but the reason he's as guilty as he is, is because he's really stupid.

I have issues with stupid people being punished. Trump's always had enough money that he was insolated, and he never had to pay attention to the law. I understand that some people might say "screw him", but the man is a moron. I have a hard time celebrating morons being sent to prison.

I also think that if he'd never been president, he'd have gotten away with his lies and financial cheats. I don't think the DA was paying close attention to him until after he became president. Everybody knew he decaled like 26 bankruptcies and that there was dishonesty going on, and he'd been under tax investigation for years, but if feels like the reason it came to a head and that he might face jail time, is because he was president.

I think he's a terrible person, and I think he was a terrible president, but this is something he's been getting away with for years, and he probably would have gotten away with it the rest of his life if he hadn't been elected president. That strikes me as unbalanced.

He should have been charged sooner, and the fact that he wasn't, and the fact that he's a moron, allowed the criminal activity to build up into more counts and more charges.

I'm not saying he shouldn't go to jail, only that it doesn't make me happy that he probably will, because there is a measure of stupidity in his crimes, and I lean against stupidity being a jailable offense.

[HarthorneWingo]

Never doubted the convictions after he denied having relations with Daniels.

The real cliffhanger is what Judge Merchan does at sentencing on July 10th which is 4 days before the RNC

Even if Judge Marshon sentences Trump to a jail sentence, which is questionable given a number of factors, Trump will be out while he’s allowed to appeal

There is very little chance, if any, that Trump will be in jail in November. The issue will be whether they will turn off voters and affect turnout? I think that it will especially if he gets convicted on any of the more serious cases.

[HarthorneWingo]

you feel this way b/c it's true.
Regular courts don't try the military, they are not built to. If they did b/c they had no other choice, we might get the right outcome but it would be pretty messy.
Regular courts shouldn't try government officials. this piece of **** attempted a coup as a sitting president, Congress should of acted and but the Republican cowards did not act appropriately.
Now, a former President is being tried in regular courts b/c that's all that's left. I'm happy with the outcome, but it's a mess.

You're describing a caste system that insulates government officials. Where did this idea come from?

Isn't the point of a justice system that actually works is to show no one is above the law?

I don't object to the way Trump was tried.

Where my bad feelings comes in, is that I think Trump was honestly not smart enough to know how badly he was breaking the law. I feel like he's being punished, in part for his crimes, but the reason he's as guilty as he is, is because he's really stupid.

I have issues with stupid people being punished. Trump's always had enough money that he was insolated, and he never had to pay attention to the law. I understand that some people might say "screw him", but the man is a moron. I have a hard time celebrating morons being sent to prison.

I also think that if he'd never been president, he'd have gotten away with his lies and financial cheats. I don't think the DA was paying close attention to him until after he became president. Everybody knew he decaled like 26 bankruptcies and that there was dishonesty going on, and he'd been under tax investigation for years, but if feels like the reason it came to a head and that he might face jail time, is because he was president.

I think he's a terrible person, and I think he was a terrible president, but this is something he's been getting away with for years, and he probably would have gotten away with it the rest of his life if he hadn't been elected president. That strikes me as unbalanced.

He should have been charged sooner, and the fact that he wasn't, and the fact that he's a moron, allowed the criminal activity to build up into more counts and more charges.

I'm not saying he shouldn't go to jail, only that it doesn't make me happy that he probably will, because there is a measure of stupidity in his crimes, and I lean against stupidity being a jailable offense.

First, you don’t have to be a genius to have pulled this off. Plus, Trump had shady people advising him, like his father had POS sheister Roy Cohn advising him.

Second, Trump could have testified and explained how he didn’t blah blah blah blah. He didn’t. That’s because he testify without lying and he would’ve gotten killed on cross examination