TKF's keys to the loss

[TKF]

I guess watching them Larry birds tapes did good for Gallo that behind the back pass came right off them tapes I bet.

I saw him do it on his videos from the euroleague.. he did a sweet behind the back pass.. the kid is slick with the ball. the more comfortable he gets, I bet you will see more flair to his game..

[TKF]

Another loss. fell down big, had to battle back, came close but couldn't get it done.. we just got outhustled tonight.. pistons with 20 offensive boards.. can't win letting a team do that to you..


Keys:

Lee: got his in the first quarter scoring 16 points, then after that, it as a bumbling game for lee. He wasn't boxing out, he was forcing shots and getting them blocked repeatedly.. I know the guy played 48 minutes last night, and maybe he was a bit tired.. I place that on the coach.. lee finished with 26/17/9 another near triple double.. solid game, but more of a tale of two halves for lee.. I think his fast start and him as the focus didn't allow the other guys to get in a rhythm and it showed early and often..

Hughes: came in after being banished in the dog house.. didn't score and looked rusty.. He came in forcing things and it didn't work..

harrington: Thank god he was benched for the rest of the game after the 3rd quarter.. He was a mess, got an unnecessary tech. shot 3-9 for 8 points and 3 boards...

duhon: a complete train wreck.. after a silly turnover he was benched and never came back in the game.. LOL.. thank god!!!!! 0 points 3 dimes and 4 turnovers.. LOL.. please keep him on the bench.. it got so bad, we went with no guards..

Chandler: wow, this guy has come crashing back down to earth lately... I can't put my finger on his struggles, but he is just sloppy with the ball and making mental errors.. shot 4-12, had 8 points and 5 turnovers.. Not getting down on him.. just a slump.. but what bothers me are the bad shots and turnovers.. get it together youngin..

Gallo: Another big game for gallo.. shot 8-16 and 3-6 from three... efficient game.. 4 boards( has to do better) 2 dimes and a steal.. came on after a somewhat sluggish start.. scored in the post, off jumpers, even had a sweet behind the back pass to jeffries, which of course rarely ends up in an assist... I wish we run the offense through gallo more...

nate: after some bonehead plays, really turned it on in the 4th. 11points and 5 dimes.. he really tried to look for teamates and was making an effort on defense. I have no problem with that nate..

Jeffries: 4/5 boards.. really had a hard time guarding charlie V and dealing with the pistons front line.. played good defense as usual, just not a big impact game..

Jordan Hill: really makes you wonder why he rots on the bench.. came in the game and along with gallo and nate changed the tone of the game... Hill made some real nice "pro" moves, and pretty much shut charlie V down with his length and athleticism. had a sweet post move and a nice turnaround shot in the lane.. 6/3/1block... and his impact seemed bigger than that.. He needs to play 20mpg..

overall tough loss, we got abused on the offensive boards, 20 offensive boards. can't allow that to happen... Honestly, I can run with Hill, gallo, lee chandler, nate, TD and jeffries.... with a small and I mean small dose of Al....

16-24 and fading....


I am headed out for drinks.. later..

Thanks TKF save me a round......

We looked fantastic in the first half against Charlotte, and then fell apart. Toronto and the Thunder were two good teams to measure ourselves against, and we didn’t look like we belonged on the same court with either one of them. In between we barely squeaked out a win against the 12 win 76ers.

Whatever we were drinking in December we should have bottled it. Because now it’s slipping through our fingers. After our 1-9 start we have gained exactly one game on .500. Which I guess could be a lot worse, but we were looking a lot better.

Things could turn around fast, of course. Don’t want to get too high or too low. However, if by any chance some commentators here were correct and Donnie was digging in for a stretch run with this core, I would hope at this point that he might be reconsidering. Missing the playoffs while doing nothing to further shed salary could be disastrous.

That is what is so frustrating about the coaches short rotation, because even in wins it is fools gold as we are not playing that well and really it mostly isn't working. We need true catalysts off the bench, not guys who give as much as they take. What, Bender thinks he can take guys off the dribble from the top of the key - get real - block shots, rebound, hit the corner three. Know your **** role. Nate has gone back into his free safety mode. And now Hughes is pissed off, I doubt he would even buy into being back into the rotation. Our guys look like they are:

PACING

themselves for the long minutes. You cannot pace yourself in this league unless you are like **** great. And great players don't pace themselves.

remember in my keys during that winning month, I said that a few of those wins we got fortunate because we played the same way we did when we were losing, except the teams we beat were either bad or we just got a little lucky.... I like lee, and honestly I think he has improved greatly, but not as the first option for this team.. we need to involve gallo much more, move the ball more and get lee back to crashing the boards, doing the dirty work and he can still use that jumper to keep defenses honest on him...

duhon is a complete waste , nothing more to add.. And hill needs to play. he gives us a lot of things we are lacking on that front line..

[earthmansurfer]

One of the biggest games of the year...

The emergence of Hill and the decline of Duhon is what this game will be remembered for.

Not so fast after all Duhon is currently in the locker room having a threesome with Dumbphony and Jeffries----getting his playing time back for monday.

If D'antoni does one thing it is move swiftly, I would be unpleasantly surprised if Duhon isn't replaced on Monday. It is well within D'antoni's coaching framework to simply pull the rug from under Duhon at a moments notice, only problem is Lee will lobby for his symbiotic partner to play.

By "emergence" of Jordan Hill I mean being inserted into the rotation.

Got to correct you here, D'Antoni makes changes at a snails pace. It took him over a year to realize SSOL didn't work. We have continually seen Duhon lose us games and yet Douglas who plays great D and can score is not in the game. (I'm simplifying, but point should be clear). Hill has shown flashes every time he's played and yet Bumbling Bender has gotten his minutes. I'm sure I've forgotten other moves to question (or rather lack of moves). Oh, yeah, sticking with Nate on the bench when we lacked scoring in the 4th for like 5 or more games. How about Harrington getting consistent minutes no matter how bad he played (he mostly played ok, but lately has gone back to himself, like Duhon, and coach just sticks with it.) He coach, time to shake things up, going on half a year with this small lineup and we are what, 16 and 24?

Losing now is the BEST thing for D'Antoni. He moves sooo SLOWLY that consistent losing is the ONLY thing that brings changes. Remember how he has stuck with the lineup cause they were winning and he didn't want to make changes, well now that is all going to change.

[stuporman]

It was too much fools gold to believe that a rotation that included guys like Duhon, Harrington, Nate and Bender could win consistently. D' should be given kudos for getting them to play anything resembling disciplined basketball for any stretch of time.

[istayripped]

The most amazing part is Hills defense, amazing timing with the blocks

Yeah man, "amazing" is the perfect word to describe Jordan Hill. Simply amazing.

[Clyde_Style]

This game more than any previous game has made me want to see a trade in tomorrow's papers. My hatred for Duhon has surpassed my hatred for Eisley or Shandon Anderson.

Ouch!

[duetta]

Yeah man, "amazing" is the perfect word to describe Jordan Hill. Simply amazing.

Ever heard the advice "when you're already in a deep hole, stop digging"?

[Clyde_Style]

People act like Mike loves Duhon or something...

Don't you remember this summer when they tried every possible scenario they could think of to get someone else?

He sticks with him because he has no other options. Thats how bad we are at PG. We can't not play Chris Duhon because he is by far our best play making guard.

I know, its really funny. MD is stuck with Duhon. He doesn't luv luv luv little Chrissy. Enough with the conspiracy theories guys. Coaches have enough drama and crap up in their heads to deal with than to totally sabotage the team and their coaching career because of some supposed man crush on his little pet. Ridiculous. He's the only PG on the Knicks!

I'd guess you can legitimately say Walsh probably should have come up with somebody to share PG duties with Duhon this year, but don't people realize Duhon is a 2 year signing meant to plug a hole during the rebuild. He's not the cure. You know it, they know it, everybody knows it. Nobody is going to defend Duhon to excess here, but you can't expect the coach to publicly humiliate the ONLY PG ON THE TEAM even if he is shooting blanks.

MD's hands are tied folks. Deal with the reality of it and stop applying BS psychology to an obvious situation please.

P.S. I personally have no problem with playing whomever works among the players we have and sitting Duhon down. But MD is a PG oriented coach and while it may seem easy to us to do that, it obviously is a very difficult thing for MD to be coaching a pro team without a legit PG running the show for him. He may have to make do without Duhon if he really plays worse than he already has, but that is a coaching decision, not a tale of broken hearts and jilted lovers.

[SpReEfOrAlL]

The most amazing part is Hills defense, amazing timing with the blocks

Yeah man, "amazing" is the perfect word to describe Jordan Hill. Simply amazing.

Easily the worst poster here. 10 bucks says this dude didnt even watch the game. And if he did, he clearly doesn't know much about basketball.

[FKF]

Bad loss again, hopefully we'll bounce back today at the Garden and show the Pistons who's the better team.
It's too bad that (again) these Knicks have been too confident and thought they were a play-off team after their December wins, but today they are 8 games under .500, which is the same than after the 1-9 start. They will not make the play-offs with 37 wins, so they better get their thing going, come out strong and fast in the first quarter, and not dig them elves into a hole.

Lee is not an all-star in my book, and I believe in a lot of people's books, yet he's playing like he's only interested to play that Sunday game in Dallas. I see him put up huge numbers on offense but it seems he's forgot to play defense, yet he can be decent when he wants to.
D'Antoni is doing a good job imo this season, and is showing the players he's the boss. I like that.
But don't forget to play your Jordan Hill especially when you've chosen to have Curry & Milicic in your doghouse. Lee is a power forward, and needs a center next to him.

Let's win today and get back on track, we can still make the play-offs. But we need to win games like today's and not get behind by double digits in the first half.

[alphad0gz]

MLK day on Monday. Matinee game.

[FKF]

of course, game is tomorrow, I misread nba.com...

[Vash]

The most amazing part is Hills defense, amazing timing with the blocks

Yeah man, "amazing" is the perfect word to describe Jordan Hill. Simply amazing.

istayripped is Easily the worst poster here. 10 bucks says this dude didnt even watch the game. And if he did, he clearly doesn't know much about basketball.

I guess staying rip has ts consequences...lol

[istayripped]

The most amazing part is Hills defense, amazing timing with the blocks

Yeah man, "amazing" is the perfect word to describe Jordan Hill. Simply amazing.

istayripped is Easily the worst poster here. 10 bucks says this dude didnt even watch the game. And if he did, he clearly doesn't know much about basketball.

I guess staying rip has ts consequences...lol

You would have lost 10 bucks. I saw the game, and if you were "amazed" then it doesn't take much to amaze you.

[dk7th]

Another loss. fell down big, had to battle back, came close but couldn't get it done.. we just got outhustled tonight.. pistons with 20 offensive boards.. can't win letting a team do that to you..


Keys:

Lee: got his in the first quarter scoring 16 points, then after that, it as a bumbling game for lee. He wasn't boxing out, he was forcing shots and getting them blocked repeatedly.. I know the guy played 48 minutes last night, and maybe he was a bit tired.. I place that on the coach.. lee finished with 26/17/9 another near triple double.. solid game, but more of a tale of two halves for lee.. I think his fast start and him as the focus didn't allow the other guys to get in a rhythm and it showed early and often..

Hughes: came in after being banished in the dog house.. didn't score and looked rusty.. He came in forcing things and it didn't work..

harrington: Thank god he was benched for the rest of the game after the 3rd quarter.. He was a mess, got an unnecessary tech. shot 3-9 for 8 points and 3 boards...

duhon: a complete train wreck.. after a silly turnover he was benched and never came back in the game.. LOL.. thank god!!!!! 0 points 3 dimes and 4 turnovers.. LOL.. please keep him on the bench.. it got so bad, we went with no guards..

Chandler: wow, this guy has come crashing back down to earth lately... I can't put my finger on his struggles, but he is just sloppy with the ball and making mental errors.. shot 4-12, had 8 points and 5 turnovers.. Not getting down on him.. just a slump.. but what bothers me are the bad shots and turnovers.. get it together youngin..

Gallo: Another big game for gallo.. shot 8-16 and 3-6 from three... efficient game.. 4 boards( has to do better) 2 dimes and a steal.. came on after a somewhat sluggish start.. scored in the post, off jumpers, even had a sweet behind the back pass to jeffries, which of course rarely ends up in an assist... I wish we run the offense through gallo more...

nate: after some bonehead plays, really turned it on in the 4th. 11points and 5 dimes.. he really tried to look for teamates and was making an effort on defense. I have no problem with that nate..

Jeffries: 4/5 boards.. really had a hard time guarding charlie V and dealing with the pistons front line.. played good defense as usual, just not a big impact game..

Jordan Hill: really makes you wonder why he rots on the bench.. came in the game and along with gallo and nate changed the tone of the game... Hill made some real nice "pro" moves, and pretty much shut charlie V down with his length and athleticism. had a sweet post move and a nice turnaround shot in the lane.. 6/3/1block... and his impact seemed bigger than that.. He needs to play 20mpg..

overall tough loss, we got abused on the offensive boards, 20 offensive boards. can't allow that to happen... Honestly, I can run with Hill, gallo, lee chandler, nate, TD and jeffries.... with a small and I mean small dose of Al....

16-24 and fading....


I am headed out for drinks.. later..

duhon looks done and it is happening at the same exact point as last season. take away the pick and roll and he is a negative sum player, even when he has his legs. now that his legs are gone he is a negative sum player. now d'antoni MUST bring douglas into the rotation, reducing robinson's minutes.

harrington looks done. what came out starkly for me after watching the game this morning is that harrington will almost always shoot the ball with more than 10 seconds on the shot clock instead of making the extra pass. or on offensive rebounds where the clock is reset he'll throw the ball up instead of work the ball. he is simply a possession and continuity killer and all he has to do to correct that is make an extra pass. he seems so unprofessional out there to me. where's the grit in this dude's game? where is this dude's defensive prowess and the 4-5 assists and the leadership? harrington is the quintessential negative sum player and now it ooks like even HE knows it. so long al. harrington's minutes MUST be ceded to jordan hill. hill gives you better interior defense and some low post presence and he will be a willing passer.

jeffries has no hands, can't finish, and cannot defend the interior-- he can't defend the interior yet he is the glue. i'd rather see douglas defend the backcourt players that jeffries currently is.

chandler has grown a lot this season but he needs to do two things: first is he must play close to mistake-free ball which includes good shot selection, and second he has to develop a little stop and pop in the lane on his drives. the league has caught up with the running one-handers (which is something of a low% shot anyway) but now defenders have caught up with his spin move in the lane too. the guy plays with grit so you have to hand it to him.

lee is a disaster on defense. unmitigated disaster. he doesn't box out and is the main culprit for the ghastly number of offensive rebounds the opponent's accrue. his defensive rebounds have half the value that the stats show because half the time the other team is not following their shot and fading back to defend. i think the opponent's are being told to go for offensive rebounds and now it is taking its toll. this contributes to lee being a bit overrated in my opinion. when you give up as much as you give you become a zero sum player, not a winning player. and now he is taking too many shots as well which destroys continuity. lee needs to be spelled by jordan hill.

gallinari seems to start slow every game lately, and that includes taking shots too quickly. if only d'antoni would run some plays for him at the beginning of games i think we would get much more effective play from him early in games.

[method]

I guess watching them Larry birds tapes did good for Gallo that behind the back pass came right off them tapes I bet.

I saw him do it on his videos from the euroleague.. he did a sweet behind the back pass.. the kid is slick with the ball. the more comfortable he gets, I bet you will see more flair to his game..

Did you?Now that you mentioned it I think I did to.But that move is with out a doubt "Birdish"LOL.

[TKF]

I guess watching them Larry birds tapes did good for Gallo that behind the back pass came right off them tapes I bet.

I saw him do it on his videos from the euroleague.. he did a sweet behind the back pass.. the kid is slick with the ball. the more comfortable he gets, I bet you will see more flair to his game..

Did you?Now that you mentioned it I think I did to.But that move is with out a doubt "Birdish"LOL.

yes it was..... the problem, remains, a lot of gallo's slick passes go to jeffries, who never seems to convert them...

[stevieg987]

Got to correct you here, D'Antoni makes changes at a snails pace. It took him over a year to realize SSOL didn't work. We have continually seen Duhon lose us games and yet Douglas who plays great D and can score is not in the game. (I'm simplifying, but point should be clear). Hill has shown flashes every time he's played and yet Bumbling Bender has gotten his minutes. I'm sure I've forgotten other moves to question (or rather lack of moves). Oh, yeah, sticking with Nate on the bench when we lacked scoring in the 4th for like 5 or more games. How about Harrington getting consistent minutes no matter how bad he played (he mostly played ok, but lately has gone back to himself, like Duhon, and coach just sticks with it.) He coach, time to shake things up, going on half a year with this small lineup and we are what, 16 and 24?

Losing now is the BEST thing for D'Antoni. He moves sooo SLOWLY that consistent losing is the ONLY thing that brings changes. Remember how he has stuck with the lineup cause they were winning and he didn't want to make changes, well now that is all going to change.

When I said move "swiftly" I didn't mean constantly changing. It was in terms of benching players on a whim, with a sort of irreverence, seemingly out of the blue and without explanation or a middle ground. That is why it wouldn't surprise me if he pulled the rug from under Duhon, decreasing his minutes or possibly even completely benching him ala Nate and Hughes.

I agree with everything you said though, and would like to see Toney Douglas inserted back into the rotation. Although apparently he "doesn't play within the offense".

[TKF]

Another loss. fell down big, had to battle back, came close but couldn't get it done.. we just got outhustled tonight.. pistons with 20 offensive boards.. can't win letting a team do that to you..


Keys:

Lee: got his in the first quarter scoring 16 points, then after that, it as a bumbling game for lee. He wasn't boxing out, he was forcing shots and getting them blocked repeatedly.. I know the guy played 48 minutes last night, and maybe he was a bit tired.. I place that on the coach.. lee finished with 26/17/9 another near triple double.. solid game, but more of a tale of two halves for lee.. I think his fast start and him as the focus didn't allow the other guys to get in a rhythm and it showed early and often..

Hughes: came in after being banished in the dog house.. didn't score and looked rusty.. He came in forcing things and it didn't work..

harrington: Thank god he was benched for the rest of the game after the 3rd quarter.. He was a mess, got an unnecessary tech. shot 3-9 for 8 points and 3 boards...

duhon: a complete train wreck.. after a silly turnover he was benched and never came back in the game.. LOL.. thank god!!!!! 0 points 3 dimes and 4 turnovers.. LOL.. please keep him on the bench.. it got so bad, we went with no guards..

Chandler: wow, this guy has come crashing back down to earth lately... I can't put my finger on his struggles, but he is just sloppy with the ball and making mental errors.. shot 4-12, had 8 points and 5 turnovers.. Not getting down on him.. just a slump.. but what bothers me are the bad shots and turnovers.. get it together youngin..

Gallo: Another big game for gallo.. shot 8-16 and 3-6 from three... efficient game.. 4 boards( has to do better) 2 dimes and a steal.. came on after a somewhat sluggish start.. scored in the post, off jumpers, even had a sweet behind the back pass to jeffries, which of course rarely ends up in an assist... I wish we run the offense through gallo more...

nate: after some bonehead plays, really turned it on in the 4th. 11points and 5 dimes.. he really tried to look for teamates and was making an effort on defense. I have no problem with that nate..

Jeffries: 4/5 boards.. really had a hard time guarding charlie V and dealing with the pistons front line.. played good defense as usual, just not a big impact game..

Jordan Hill: really makes you wonder why he rots on the bench.. came in the game and along with gallo and nate changed the tone of the game... Hill made some real nice "pro" moves, and pretty much shut charlie V down with his length and athleticism. had a sweet post move and a nice turnaround shot in the lane.. 6/3/1block... and his impact seemed bigger than that.. He needs to play 20mpg..

overall tough loss, we got abused on the offensive boards, 20 offensive boards. can't allow that to happen... Honestly, I can run with Hill, gallo, lee chandler, nate, TD and jeffries.... with a small and I mean small dose of Al....

16-24 and fading....


I am headed out for drinks.. later..

duhon looks done and it is happening at the same exact point as last season. take away the pick and roll and he is a negative sum player, even when he has his legs. now that his legs are gone he is a negative sum player. now d'antoni MUST bring douglas into the rotation, reducing robinson's minutes.

harrington looks done. what came out starkly for me after watching the game this morning is that harrington will almost always shoot the ball with more than 10 seconds on the shot clock instead of making the extra pass. or on offensive rebounds where the clock is reset he'll throw the ball up instead of work the ball. he is simply a possession and continuity killer and all he has to do to correct that is make an extra pass. he seems so unprofessional out there to me. where's the grit in this dude's game? where is this dude's defensive prowess and the 4-5 assists and the leadership? harrington is the quintessential negative sum player and now it ooks like even HE knows it. so long al. harrington's minutes MUST be ceded to jordan hill. hill gives you better interior defense and some low post presence and he will be a willing passer.

jeffries has no hands, can't finish, and cannot defend the interior-- he can't defend the interior yet he is the glue. i'd rather see douglas defend the backcourt players that jeffries currently is.

chandler has grown a lot this season but he needs to do two things: first is he must play close to mistake-free ball which includes good shot selection, and second he has to develop a little stop and pop in the lane on his drives. the league has caught up with the running one-handers (which is something of a low% shot anyway) but now defenders have caught up with his spin move in the lane too. the guy plays with grit so you have to hand it to him.

lee is a disaster on defense. unmitigated disaster. he doesn't box out and is the main culprit for the ghastly number of offensive rebounds the opponent's accrue. his defensive rebounds have half the value that the stats show because half the time the other team is not following their shot and fading back to defend. i think the opponent's are being told to go for offensive rebounds and now it is taking its toll. this contributes to lee being a bit overrated in my opinion. when you give up as much as you give you become a zero sum player, not a winning player. and now he is taking too many shots as well which destroys continuity. lee needs to be spelled by jordan hill.

gallinari seems to start slow every game lately, and that includes taking shots too quickly. if only d'antoni would run some plays for him at the beginning of games i think we would get much more effective play from him early in games.

duhon looks done and it is happening at the same exact point as last season. take away the pick and roll and he is a negative sum player, even when he has his legs

yea, he is killing us, and honestly he is just not a starting calibre PG.

harrington looks done. what came out starkly for me after watching the game this morning is that harrington will almost always shoot the ball with more than 10 seconds on the shot clock instead of making the extra pass. or on offensive rebounds where the clock is reset he'll throw the ball up instead of work the ball. he is simply a possession and continuity killer and all he has to do to correct that is make an extra pass.

Exactly... What Al doesn't realize is that the extra pass will usually lead to a good look, and a lot of the times, it will end back up in his hands, for a much better look. Watch what gallo does. He will give it up. then curl, or move, hoping to get the ball back.. unfortunately, most of the knicks players have become one on one wannabe scorers..

I agree that gallo needs to be more involved from the start.. when that happens, he tends to get off to good starts, or he finds his groove earlier...

Jeffries.. should be comming off the bench. having to rely on a guy who is a good defender and a horrible offensive option, as a glue player, is a recipe for disaster, long term...