BaF Season 4- Opening Night 12/1- (Announcement page 57)

[mpharris36]

You’re better off keeping them private then if minimum bids aren’t allowed. There will be tons of bids in bad faith when steals are being public to everyone.

but again you are still limited to your cap space. If someone wants to make a bad faith bid they just let that guy get stuck with him. If you think the FA is still undervalued then you make another bid. I don't think people "bidding" up players hurt the game. It happens all the time. Teams don't want to see rivals come away with guys for dirt cheap even if they don't specifically want a player.

The thing is if its "real time" now with bidding you don't have to worry about waiting on bish to update...you know when you are beat so you can either bid again or pivot to a new player in real team.

You’re underestimating this. Tons of players are going to get bid on just for bad faith. That’s going to make bish’s job harder. Bish will be looking at an overload of bids trying to keep track of time stamps. I use google docs for my job which is shared to keep track of what we do... that document will be extremely long and confusing.

it will not you can have tabs for specific players bids...then just have a summary tab with the winning bid which he just would have to validate time stamps.

with 75% or more of the league FA's limiting bids is going to be a nightmare...you might have really good players going for dirt cheap just because teams used up all the bids on day 1...it will just have a negative impact like the tier FA bidding system of when players come out.

[Smash3]

I just don’t think his player profiles had an impact on this Free agency. I do think him admittedly upping the bids on players he never wanted to land did though.

nothing says you have to beat bids that you think are too high. If i have the cap space i should be allowed to bid how i want. If you beat my bid you obviously believe the player is still an asset at that price

You’re right... which is why ultimately I don’t think there’s a remedy for your sickness.

[mpharris36]

minimum bids with 75% or more of the league being FA is going to be a disaster. You going to tell me Melo who has every right to keep Tatum and Bam if he has the money potentially could lose out on day 1 of one of them because he potentially used up all his bids?

You can't worry about bad faith bids especially if bids are public and update real time. That will eliminate a team being put in a position to wait for Bish to update which basically eliminates the negative impact of bad faith bids because in the past if bish didn't update you are losing why another player you might way ended you wouldn't have to worry about that with real time public bidding.

2010’s proposal was that bird rights holders get to exceed the minimum bids amount

that doesn't solve the issue that non bird right teams could be good faith bidding on a player...lose out on that said player and then can't pivot to another FA because he is out of bids. In that scenario you would agree both the teams rightuflly wanted that player. One good faith team lost and then can't pivot just because of a rule?

This scenario of bad faith bidding is way overblown. You think there are a ton of GM's that are just waiting until 5 hours and 59 minutes to screw people on a 6 hour bid? I think most people wants bids to end sooner so they can move onto other targets.

[NewEra]

I get it, and I’m not attacking Bish either, but I think the “player happiness” category is too subjective. I just want improvements to be made, or another category to be considered. Players should be happy to play for a successful GM. If Dallas gutted their team, and had a lot of money to spend, as a player I’d be happy to go there because I know what that GM is capable of.

if you wanted to adjust play happiness to something else I think the league would listen but right now we have

History Success
Star
Future
Happiness

do you have something in mind that would take over for happiness?

I don't get it though? The only reason GSW was ranked lower was because they didn't have any players, which makes sense? What's the problem with the FA ranking system?

Player happiness. If we’re gonna stick with it, think the GM’s resume should be considered. We were ranked as a top team in the success category.

[3toheadmelo]

but again you are still limited to your cap space. If someone wants to make a bad faith bid they just let that guy get stuck with him. If you think the FA is still undervalued then you make another bid. I don't think people "bidding" up players hurt the game. It happens all the time. Teams don't want to see rivals come away with guys for dirt cheap even if they don't specifically want a player.

The thing is if its "real time" now with bidding you don't have to worry about waiting on bish to update...you know when you are beat so you can either bid again or pivot to a new player in real team.

You’re underestimating this. Tons of players are going to get bid on just for bad faith. That’s going to make bish’s job harder. Bish will be looking at an overload of bids trying to keep track of time stamps. I use google docs for my job which is shared to keep track of what we do... that document will be extremely long and confusing.

it will not you can have tabs for specific players bids...then just have a summary tab with the winning bid which he just would have to validate time stamps.

with 75% or more of the league FA's limiting bids is going to be a nightmare...you might have really good players going for dirt cheap just because teams used up all the bids on day 1...it will just have a negative impact like the tier FA bidding system of when players come out.

There’s going to be over 100 players as free agents. That’s going to be over 100 tabs for bish to go through just to find the winning bid. It’s just not reasonable man.

[mpharris36]

I get it, and I’m not attacking Bish either, but I think the “player happiness” category is too subjective. I just want improvements to be made, or another category to be considered. Players should be happy to play for a successful GM. If Dallas gutted their team, and had a lot of money to spend, as a player I’d be happy to go there because I know what that GM is capable of.

if you wanted to adjust play happiness to something else I think the league would listen but right now we have

History Success
Star
Future
Happiness

do you have something in mind that would take over for happiness?

I don't get it though? The only reason GSW was ranked lower was because they didn't have any players, which makes sense? What's the problem with the FA ranking system?

I agree with you, I was just giving NE a chance to explain what he envisioned. I have no issues with the FA ranking system as it currently is.

[Smash3]

minimum bids with 75% or more of the league being FA is going to be a disaster. You going to tell me Melo who has every right to keep Tatum and Bam if he has the money potentially could lose out on day 1 of one of them because he potentially used up all his bids?

You can't worry about bad faith bids especially if bids are public and update real time. That will eliminate a team being put in a position to wait for Bish to update which basically eliminates the negative impact of bad faith bids because in the past if bish didn't update you are losing why another player you might way ended you wouldn't have to worry about that with real time public bidding.

2010’s proposal was that bird rights holders get to exceed the minimum bids amount

that doesn't solve the issue that non bird right teams could be good faith bidding on a player...lose out on that said player and then can't pivot to another FA because he is out of bids. In that scenario you would agree both the teams rightuflly wanted that player. One good faith team lost and then can't pivot just because of a rule?

This scenario of bad faith bidding is way overblown. You think there are a ton of GM's that are just waiting until 5 hours and 59 minutes to screw people on a 6 hour bid? I think most people wants bids to end sooner so they can move onto other targets.

You've never participated in FA, you would be surprised at the amount of times some GM's were raising the bid last minute. That happened to me at least 4-5 times.

[2010]

I'm still thinking on this so everything is still fluid. But a limit per GM per day on bids is a line I am pushing.

What if we have a bid limit per day per GM on offers made to free agents but no limit on bids made to retain players GMs hold bird rights on?

[Manhattan Project]

2010’s proposal was that bird rights holders get to exceed the minimum bids amount

that doesn't solve the issue that non bird right teams could be good faith bidding on a player...lose out on that said player and then can't pivot to another FA because he is out of bids. In that scenario you would agree both the teams rightuflly wanted that player. One good faith team lost and then can't pivot just because of a rule?

This scenario of bad faith bidding is way overblown. You think there are a ton of GM's that are just waiting until 5 hours and 59 minutes to screw people on a 6 hour bid? I think most people wants bids to end sooner so they can move onto other targets.

You've never participated in FA, you would be surprised at the amount of times some GM's were raising the bid last minute. That happened to me at least 4-5 times.

Aside from the initial draft, do we really know if the bids were being raised last minute or was it just when Bish got back around? I do think one of the big problems that GM's have is not knowing where they stand with bids. So if I have to wait for Bish to come back in five hours to know where I stand, that potentially gives a GM to get a "steal" just because they didn't have to wait. It's a little unfair but it's a crack in the system at the moment.

[NewEra]

I’m not here to fight over rankings as much as I want to see The workload limited for Bish, but the money I had with one player one my team, was more valuable than Boston’s 13 man roster.

[3toheadmelo]

2010’s proposal was that bird rights holders get to exceed the minimum bids amount

that doesn't solve the issue that non bird right teams could be good faith bidding on a player...lose out on that said player and then can't pivot to another FA because he is out of bids. In that scenario you would agree both the teams rightuflly wanted that player. One good faith team lost and then can't pivot just because of a rule?

This scenario of bad faith bidding is way overblown. You think there are a ton of GM's that are just waiting until 5 hours and 59 minutes to screw people on a 6 hour bid? I think most people wants bids to end sooner so they can move onto other targets.

You've never participated in FA, you would be surprised at the amount of times some GM's were raising the bid last minute. That happened to me at least 4-5 times.

Exactly man. Happened to me too.

[Manhattan Project]

minimum bids with 75% or more of the league being FA is going to be a disaster. You going to tell me Melo who has every right to keep Tatum and Bam if he has the money potentially could lose out on day 1 of one of them because he potentially used up all his bids?

You can't worry about bad faith bids especially if bids are public and update real time. That will eliminate a team being put in a position to wait for Bish to update which basically eliminates the negative impact of bad faith bids because in the past if bish didn't update you are losing why another player you might way ended you wouldn't have to worry about that with real time public bidding.

2010’s proposal was that bird rights holders get to exceed the minimum bids amount

In two years everyone will have bird rights on their own guys, that's not applicable for that year. It's going to be absolute madness, no way around it if we keep the current system. If Bish is already saying that this free agency was tough for him, you know some changes need to be implemented.

[bishnykfan]

Couple of things I'll address here while I have a few minutes.

First off, as to the Free Agent desirability list. Overall, the first three seasons I think that this has been a fairly accurate and fair list. Teams that have won a lot like Dallas, Portland and Chicago have always been at the top while teams that started BaF building through youth and therefore losing more (Cleveland, Charlotte, Houston etc.) have been towards the bottom. This year was the first year we saw a few teams move a bit. New Orleans, Cleveland and Charlotte moved up the list some and rightfully so IMO as their build is further along then teams like Houston, San Antonio or the Lakers. Of course there are kinks in this system. Detroit still had a decent FA rating (in comparison to the other rebuilding teams) because they have a decent three year record (from Greenie's run as GM) and also because of the youth/future that Context has built. Conversely, Golden State had a poor rating this year. Obviously if I was being subjective and putting my own thoughts into these ratings, GS should be near the top of the list. But the numbers didn't lie and I wasn't going to manipulate them because of what I thought they should be (as much as I like NewEra and respect what he puts into BaF). Everyone knew what that list was based on before the offseason began and no one should be surprised when a team with no draft picks, no star player and basically an empty roster ended up being down the list. The list isn't designed to prohibit teams lower on it from getting a FA or make it extra easy or cheap for the good teams to sign who they want.
It just provides a little weight so teams bidding on the same player have different odds of getting that player. The list is not perfect obviously but I think overall, it's fair.

Second, the idea of tiered releases, maximum bids per day or public bids seem to be the most popular thoughts at this time. My thoughts on these: Tiered releases and maximum bids placed per day are both somethings I've thought about as well. Maybe releasing 30 players a day or only allowing teams to place x number of bids per day would make things easier. But as others have mentioned, there will be issues with both of these systems that hurt the fairness and competitiveness of the league. Making all bids public is not something I've thought much about. Honestly, I don't know how it would work. Considering offers deal with different amount of money and years and also factoring in the FA list that weights offers, I'm not sure how making the leading offer public would translate to the rest of the league?

For example, assume the leading bid on player x is $100/4 from Oklahoma City (using them because they are middle of the road on the FA list). Each team still has a different number that they could offer to take that leading bid.

My overall idea was that FA was always the part of the game that concerned me the most. Keeping it fair while also somewhat realistic was always the challenge. For the most part, I think three offseasons in, we have done that. I am not looking for major changes to the system unless there is an overwhelming amount of support for something. I just think it needs to be tweaked a bit in order to lessen what will undoubtedly be a crazy year two seasons from now.

[mpharris36]

You’re underestimating this. Tons of players are going to get bid on just for bad faith. That’s going to make bish’s job harder. Bish will be looking at an overload of bids trying to keep track of time stamps. I use google docs for my job which is shared to keep track of what we do... that document will be extremely long and confusing.

it will not you can have tabs for specific players bids...then just have a summary tab with the winning bid which he just would have to validate time stamps.

with 75% or more of the league FA's limiting bids is going to be a nightmare...you might have really good players going for dirt cheap just because teams used up all the bids on day 1...it will just have a negative impact like the tier FA bidding system of when players come out.

There’s going to be over 100 players as free agents. That’s going to be over 100 tabs for bish to go through just to find the winning bid. It’s just not reasonable man.

that is why most of us said we should have a sub forum so bish can just see the new players that were given contracts too. He doesn't even have to look in the specific tabs he can just look at the summary sheet.

For example the sub forum can just have the list of the FA's and you would just need to post Cleveland submitted and offer...that is new time stamp so that bish only would have to go through the offers of older time stamped players. He wouldn't have to cycle through every FA if the bidding was still active.

[mpharris36]

minimum bids with 75% or more of the league being FA is going to be a disaster. You going to tell me Melo who has every right to keep Tatum and Bam if he has the money potentially could lose out on day 1 of one of them because he potentially used up all his bids?

You can't worry about bad faith bids especially if bids are public and update real time. That will eliminate a team being put in a position to wait for Bish to update which basically eliminates the negative impact of bad faith bids because in the past if bish didn't update you are losing why another player you might way ended you wouldn't have to worry about that with real time public bidding.

2010’s proposal was that bird rights holders get to exceed the minimum bids amount

In two years everyone will have bird rights on their own guys, that's not applicable for that year. It's going to be absolute madness, no way around it if we keep the current system. If Bish is already saying that this free agency was tough for him, you know some changes need to be implemented.

bingo!

[3toheadmelo]

I'm still thinking on this so everything is still fluid. But a limit per GM per day on bids is a line I am pushing.

What if we have a bid limit per day per GM on offers made to free agents but no limit on bids made to retain players GMs hold bird rights on?

Yep. If we’re going public with bids then this is the way to go. Bird rights still get their advantages, drastically less bad faith bids, and steals will still be part of the game which ultimately adds competitiveness in to the league.

[3toheadmelo]

minimum bids with 75% or more of the league being FA is going to be a disaster. You going to tell me Melo who has every right to keep Tatum and Bam if he has the money potentially could lose out on day 1 of one of them because he potentially used up all his bids?

You can't worry about bad faith bids especially if bids are public and update real time. That will eliminate a team being put in a position to wait for Bish to update which basically eliminates the negative impact of bad faith bids because in the past if bish didn't update you are losing why another player you might way ended you wouldn't have to worry about that with real time public bidding.

2010’s proposal was that bird rights holders get to exceed the minimum bids amount

In two years everyone will have bird rights on their own guys, that's not applicable for that year. It's going to be absolute madness, no way around it if we keep the current system. If Bish is already saying that this free agency was tough for him, you know some changes need to be implemented.

Not everyone is going to keep their players. We’ve just seen a lot players with bird rights go to new teams in this free agency.

[2010]

I just don’t think his player profiles had an impact on this Free agency. I do think him admittedly upping the bids on players he never wanted to land did though.

nothing says you have to beat bids that you think are too high. If i have the cap space i should be allowed to bid how i want. If you beat my bid you obviously believe the player is still an asset at that price

You’re right... which is why ultimately I don’t think there’s a remedy for your sickness.

The bid limit per day is the remedy. It reduces the workload on bish and forces the GMs to prioritize their bids. Unless you are attempting to keep a player you hold bird rights on.

[mpharris36]

2010’s proposal was that bird rights holders get to exceed the minimum bids amount

that doesn't solve the issue that non bird right teams could be good faith bidding on a player...lose out on that said player and then can't pivot to another FA because he is out of bids. In that scenario you would agree both the teams rightuflly wanted that player. One good faith team lost and then can't pivot just because of a rule?

This scenario of bad faith bidding is way overblown. You think there are a ton of GM's that are just waiting until 5 hours and 59 minutes to screw people on a 6 hour bid? I think most people wants bids to end sooner so they can move onto other targets.

You've never participated in FA, you would be surprised at the amount of times some GM's were raising the bid last minute. That happened to me at least 4-5 times.

and yet you still walked away with an amazing offseason with Lowry being an absolute steal. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. It does happen agreed, but does it happen enough to warrant hurting teams that actually are legit bidding. How do you decide a bad faith and good faith bid?

[Manhattan Project]

2010’s proposal was that bird rights holders get to exceed the minimum bids amount

In two years everyone will have bird rights on their own guys, that's not applicable for that year. It's going to be absolute madness, no way around it if we keep the current system. If Bish is already saying that this free agency was tough for him, you know some changes need to be implemented.

Not everyone is going to keep their players. We’ve just seen a lot players with bird rights go to new teams in this free agency.

Absolutely, there are going to be players that get let go. It's no secret that I plan on letting Love and Hayward go to have that money to play in free agency. My point was that most teams are going to attempt to keep their "core" intact. You're not going to let Bam/Tatum walk, you'll fight for them all day long. I don't think we'll see a frugal offseason because everyone will have money and that'll be a chance to really make moves. It'll be everyone's chance to get a franchise player if they don't have one.