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Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 268 in MSG Usman vs Colby 2, Rose vs Zhang 2

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#621 » by bringbackhoffa » Sun Feb 9, 2020 2:02 pm

NoStatsGuy wrote:what the actual F.. :D

One guy scored the mainevent 4-1 for jones... cmon

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why are the 1st 2 rounds even printed on these scorecards? Does anybody know? These judges are complete fools..

IDK about the Santos fight, but Jones lost this one for sure. Now i can kinda see the arguments about, you cannot win the belt "running".. but honestly that was what Jones did the 1st 3 rounds, he ran a couple times.

Bullet Valentina is just too good for female flyweight.

Latifi looks solid in HW, if he stays in HW there are some interesting fights for him.

That Giles - Krause fight, was fun to watch. No camp, going all out early, love to see that, especially with the grappling early.

Overall pretty boring card, with terrible judges if you ask me. Jones' time is up pretty soon

That is weird why are the first 2 rounds already typed out?

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#622 » by Guano » Sun Feb 9, 2020 2:14 pm

how the f did 2 judges give Jones the 2nd? That seemed like a really clear Reyes round. The only round that was remotely close was the 3rd, which I gave to Reyes.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#623 » by j4remi » Sun Feb 9, 2020 3:04 pm

Yeah, that 4-1 score card is nutso. My two cents...it's not a robbery, but it's a super close decision that warrants an immediate rematch. I had the first definitely to Reyes and the championship rounds definitely to Jones. Two and three were both close enough that I didn't feel a decision in either direction would be a robbery. I really feel like Reyes came in with exactly what I'd expected to see,

Reyes kept circling away and utilizing leg kicks. When Jones committed to answers, Dom let his hands go effectively. He slowed down as the fight wore on, but this general strategy really worked out well. The one way it hurt him was that it let Jones be the advancing fighter all night. I don't think that just because you're advancing, you're controlling the octagon. But a lot of judges seem to. Anyway, that was exactly the approach I'd hoped that he would take. He has a real argument that he won the fight and deserves an immediate rematch.

I do think Jones will be a bigger problem in the rematch. I'm guessing his focus was on wearing Reyes down, which is why he kept advancing even though it walked him into a ton of counters. I'd have liked to see him change levels on take down attempts more often too. He was still pretty effective though and he slipped punches beautifully all night. Dude won't get enough credit for how well he fought in this one thanks to the underdog effect imo.

Great fight, debatable decision, not the best card though. Shevchenko got her showcase which was nice. Tafa and Adams have no business on a PPV at this point imo, neither earned that slot and it wasted an opportunity to promote a more legitimate prospect. Ilir Latifi is as boring a HW as he was a LHW and I'm not upset he lost the decision off that style of fighting.

Krause's crazy tough performance against Giles and the straight up scrap between KGB and Lauren Murphy were the best fights before the main event. UFC needs to put better fights on the undercard of these damned PPV's.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#624 » by bringbackhoffa » Sun Feb 9, 2020 3:11 pm

I doubt they go with the immediate rematch. Will probably see how next weeks matchup goes with blachowitz v Anderson next wk. I would then book Santos Vs Reyes as Santos also had a close match vs Jones..how quickly we forget..

If next weeks match up is a snoozefest then I think u throw jones up at heavy weight for a quick one of vs Stiepe and let light heavyweight play itself off under a mini 4 man tourney

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#625 » by newyorker4ever » Sun Feb 9, 2020 4:13 pm

I missed the fights. Me and my buddy spent from about 10:10 until 12:00 last night on the phone with ESPN cause we couldn't get the fight to go through and it was charging his card every time we'd click on pay for UFC 247. We use ESPN+ on our firsestick. Did anyone else have any issues or hear of anyone else having issues because the people from the call center said that it wasn't just an us issue and many people were calling but we didn't know if they were just saying that to get us off their azz or not?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#626 » by Amare_1_Knicks » Sun Feb 9, 2020 6:07 pm

There has to be an immediate rematch(provided Jones stays at LH). Reyes have him the most challenging fight of his career, very comparable to the first Gustafsson fight except Reyes took less damage down the stretch.

The judges shouldn’t have been putting much stock in those Jones takedowns either. He was expending an incredible amount of energy and when he did manage to get him down it was momentary and he inflicted literally no damage.

Watching it live I truly felt Reyes was going to get the decision, though he lost the final 2 rounds.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#627 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Feb 9, 2020 10:19 pm

Even Luke Thomas says Reyes won rounds 1, 2, and 3. Reyes was robbed.

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#628 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Feb 9, 2020 10:25 pm

j4remi wrote:Yeah, that 4-1 score card is nutso. My two cents...it's not a robbery, but it's a super close decision that warrants an immediate rematch. I had the first definitely to Reyes and the championship rounds definitely to Jones. Two and three were both close enough that I didn't feel a decision in either direction would be a robbery. I really feel like Reyes came in with exactly what I'd expected to see,

Reyes kept circling away and utilizing leg kicks. When Jones committed to answers, Dom let his hands go effectively. He slowed down as the fight wore on, but this general strategy really worked out well. The one way it hurt him was that it let Jones be the advancing fighter all night. I don't think that just because you're advancing, you're controlling the octagon. But a lot of judges seem to. Anyway, that was exactly the approach I'd hoped that he would take. He has a real argument that he won the fight and deserves an immediate rematch.

I do think Jones will be a bigger problem in the rematch. I'm guessing his focus was on wearing Reyes down, which is why he kept advancing even though it walked him into a ton of counters. I'd have liked to see him change levels on take down attempts more often too. He was still pretty effective though and he slipped punches beautifully all night. Dude won't get enough credit for how well he fought in this one thanks to the underdog effect imo.

Great fight, debatable decision, not the best card though. Shevchenko got her showcase which was nice. Tafa and Adams have no business on a PPV at this point imo, neither earned that slot and it wasted an opportunity to promote a more legitimate prospect. Ilir Latifi is as boring a HW as he was a LHW and I'm not upset he lost the decision off that style of fighting.

Krause's crazy tough performance against Giles and the straight up scrap between KGB and Lauren Murphy were the best fights before the main event. UFC needs to put better fights on the undercard of these damned PPV's.


Did you know that the UFC had to use Texas MMA Rules last night? From what LT was saying, "ring control" is counted in Texas whereas it was eliminated from the new UFC rules. This is fcked up.

Also, After taking all that punishment in the first three rounds, he was just as fresh, if not more so, in the championship rounds. I mean, c’mon. I know he’s the GOAT and he’s been through all the wars. But, c’mon.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#629 » by Stannis » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:26 am

I agree with Remi. I wouldn't call it a robbery.

But I think it was definitely a draw. I'd give the edge to Reyes because he did more damage.

And seems like the UFC inherited that boxing scoring mentality; where if it's a close fight, don't call it a draw, just give it to the champ.

Those takedowns by Jones were desperation takedowns, imo. It was a striking match. Reyes was winning. Jones took Reyes down, but Reyes got out of them within seconds unphased. They were baby takedowns at best.

I mean, it's kind of ridiculous that Jones gets to put up a performance like that and get gifted the decision. I get he's the champ, but UFC shouldn't start scoring fights like boxing. That's one of the reasons I don't follow boxing as much as I used to. I'd hate for the UFC to fall through the same hole.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#630 » by Tron Carter » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:31 am

Adesanya will light Jones up like a Christmas tree when they fight next year.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#631 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:08 am

The Weasal's breakdown of the fight. Round 3 is particularly worth watching.



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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#632 » by j4remi » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:03 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Did you know that the UFC had to use Texas MMA Rules last night? From what LT was saying, "ring control" is counted in Texas whereas it was eliminated from the new UFC rules. This is fcked up.

Also, After taking all that punishment in the first three rounds, he was just as fresh, if not more so, in the championship rounds. I mean, c’mon. I know he’s the GOAT and he’s been through all the wars. But, c’mon.


It's wild that some commissions still operate on the old rules even though we've had the new set for so long now. But states with less major events probably don't have as much reason to scrutinize it I guess. Normally this comes up because of confusion about what constitutes a downed opponent because you can't knee them in the head if they count as downed since guys can get disqualified or lose points if they confuse which rules we're working by.

But in this case, it's the judging criteria that shifts. I'm working on memory but I'm not mistaken the new rules made it clear as day that being the aggressor (forward motion mainly) only comes into play if the fight is even on the previous criteria aka damage related stuff. The old rules just laid out each criteria which meant just being the advancing fighter can score you points. That could be the difference in the decision.

Honestly though, this is mostly just another indictment of the 10 point must system in MMA. Reyes did more damage in the first and third than Jones did in 2,4 and 5 whether you edge those rounds to him or not imo.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#633 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:21 am

j4remi wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Did you know that the UFC had to use Texas MMA Rules last night? From what LT was saying, "ring control" is counted in Texas whereas it was eliminated from the new UFC rules. This is fcked up.

Also, After taking all that punishment in the first three rounds, he was just as fresh, if not more so, in the championship rounds. I mean, c’mon. I know he’s the GOAT and he’s been through all the wars. But, c’mon.


It's wild that some commissions still operate on the old rules even though we've had the new set for so long now. But states with less major events probably don't have as much reason to scrutinize it I guess. Normally this comes up because of confusion about what constitutes a downed opponent because you can't knee them in the head if they count as downed since guys can get disqualified or lose points if they confuse which rules we're working by.

But in this case, it's the judging criteria that shifts. I'm working on memory but I'm not mistaken the new rules made it clear as day that being the aggressor (forward motion mainly) only comes into play if the fight is even on the previous criteria aka damage related stuff. The old rules just laid out each criteria which meant just being the advancing fighter can score you points. That could be the difference in the decision.

Honestly though, this is mostly just another indictment of the 10 point must system in MMA. Reyes did more damage in the first and third than Jones did in 2,4 and 5 whether you edge those rounds to him or not imo.


I'm going to have to sit down and re-watch the fight with particular attention to round 2. Do you know what the striking/signifcant striking stats look like for that round?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jones didn't lose the last two fights, then they were razor thin wins. But tell me this, in your heart of hearts, you think Jones was on PEDs for this fight?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#634 » by GONYK » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:24 pm

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#635 » by bringbackhoffa » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:17 pm

why is everyone ignoring Santos in these discussions, he also just lost to Jones, but unlike Reyes it was a split decision.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#636 » by NoStatsGuy » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:40 am

yea after rewatching 2 more times, i can see how people give jon rounds 2 and/or 3.

big issue is, that rules are different in texas than they are in Vegas. I want these fights to be judged like back in the day with pride.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#637 » by j4remi » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:54 pm

Some fights worth watching this weekend fam, including a potential contender fight for Jon Jones' next opponent if Reyes doesn't get an immediate rematch; a real sleeper fight that I'm legitimately hype for fam; and the most unorthodox athlete in the UFC vs its biggest psycho in the octagon...

Blachowicz vs Anderson: If Jones vs Reyes hadn't been so close, this would be the guaranteed number one contender fight at LHW. Blachowicz has won 6 of his last 7, only losing to Thiago Santos who damn near beat Jones. Anderson is on a 4 fight win streak over some high ranked LHW's including the most hype prospect out there Johnny Walker...Anderson also beat Blachowicz the first time they fought convincingly.

Blachowicz is a really good striker who has improved his wrestling over the years, but his most recent struggles have come against wrestlers like Anderson. He did shut down takedown attempts from both Luke Rockhold and Jacare Souza in his past two fights though and he's shown more pop in recent fights. Anderson has been smothering guys in a manner that got him the boring label, but he just knocked out Walker.

If I'm being honest, I could see this getting caught up in a lot of clinches. Anderson is a bit chinny and Jan is dangerous, so his smartest approach to go back to wet blanket mode. Corey's being hyped as a potential guy to beat Jones and I don't see it tbh. I'm rooting for Blachowicz, but hard not to look at their first fight and wonder if Jan can come up with an adequate answer.

Lando Vannata vs Yancy Medeiros: Fam, these two dudes are prone to getting into absolute wars, they're hard to hurt and neither guy ever goes out without brawling. These dudes have 9 post fight bonuses between them and they're my odds on favorite for fight of the night tomorrow. Yancy is Max Holloway's training partner and loses almost exclusively to high level cats like Cowboy, Gillespie and Jim Poirier. Vannata went to war with Tony Ferguson but has had some let downs in fights where his brawler mentality got him in trouble.

Vannata has some really great kicks and athleticism in general. He's a monster in space but happy to box in the pocket. Medeiros isn't the same athlete, but he's a bigger and stronger fighter. He'll probably look to press Vannata and win from inside by forcing that brawl. Medeiros could get in trouble though because he's not great defensively, he's the type to walk through damage and wear his opponent out. That could get him kicked in the head if he's not careful...he might not stay down anyway though.

Michael Perreira vs Diego Sanchez: Michel Perreira is the dude that does cartwheels and backflips into kicks and punches. He's super athletic and hits hard as hell, but wastes a TON of energy...but he's wildly entertaining to watch. Diego Sanchez, you know him...he's been brawling since he won the very first TUF. Sanchez has aged and lost a big step, but his toughness and cardio has still helped him to some wins over decent competition. This is a madman that hates going backwards against a similarly crazy dude that never stays still.

I see this going one of two ways. Early finish for Perreira who does some craziness and scores a highlight..or Diego weathering the storm and beating the hell out of an exhausted Perreira from the second round on. Unless Michel has really changed his approach, I don't ever see his cardio holding up. That said, Diego doesn't move well enough or have the strength for me to be confident he'll last. I'm actually leaning toward the highlight reel KO.

Other fighters worth watching...Macy Chiasson is a really interesting prospect with just 6 fights in WMMA total. She's been fighting in the UFC since her second pro fight and has real striking chops. Nathaniel Wood, the Prospect, is fighting a massive test in John Dodson. He hasn't lost since he was 22 years old and looks like a modern MMA fighter through and through. Jim Miller, Ray Borg and Montana De La Rosa aren't prospects but they're usually in entertaining fights too plus both Montana and Borg still have a bit of upside. Honestly, this card has a lot of potential. They shoulda had a couple of these fights on the Jones card.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#638 » by j4remi » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:57 pm

bringbackhoffa wrote:why is everyone ignoring Santos in these discussions, he also just lost to Jones, but unlike Reyes it was a split decision.


There's a decent amount of talk about Reyes vs Santos while the winner of the main event this weekend gets Jones next. I think Dom will get the immediate rematch, but I wouldn't be mad at Santos vs Reyes for a second shot at Jones. I think the main reason Thiago gets discounted is because no one expects him to get his legs back under him for real for a decent chunk of time. With how long he fought on that bum knee and his age, I'm a bit nervous that he won't be the same again.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#639 » by newyorker4ever » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:00 pm

j4remi wrote:Some fights worth watching this weekend fam, including a potential contender fight for Jon Jones' next opponent if Reyes doesn't get an immediate rematch; a real sleeper fight that I'm legitimately hype for fam; and the most unorthodox athlete in the UFC vs its biggest psycho in the octagon...

Blachowicz vs Anderson: If Jones vs Reyes hadn't been so close, this would be the guaranteed number one contender fight at LHW. Blachowicz has won 6 of his last 7, only losing to Thiago Santos who damn near beat Jones. Anderson is on a 4 fight win streak over some high ranked LHW's including the most hype prospect out there Johnny Walker...Anderson also beat Blachowicz the first time they fought convincingly.

Blachowicz is a really good striker who has improved his wrestling over the years, but his most recent struggles have come against wrestlers like Anderson. He did shut down takedown attempts from both Luke Rockhold and Jacare Souza in his past two fights though and he's shown more pop in recent fights. Anderson has been smothering guys in a manner that got him the boring label, but he just knocked out Walker.

If I'm being honest, I could see this getting caught up in a lot of clinches. Anderson is a bit chinny and Jan is dangerous, so his smartest approach to go back to wet blanket mode. Corey's being hyped as a potential guy to beat Jones and I don't see it tbh. I'm rooting for Blachowicz, but hard not to look at their first fight and wonder if Jan can come up with an adequate answer.

Lando Vannata vs Yancy Medeiros: Fam, these two dudes are prone to getting into absolute wars, they're hard to hurt and neither guy ever goes out without brawling. These dudes have 9 post fight bonuses between them and they're my odds on favorite for fight of the night tomorrow. Yancy is Max Holloway's training partner and loses almost exclusively to high level cats like Cowboy, Gillespie and Jim Poirier. Vannata went to war with Tony Ferguson but has had some let downs in fights where his brawler mentality got him in trouble.

Vannata has some really great kicks and athleticism in general. He's a monster in space but happy to box in the pocket. Medeiros isn't the same athlete, but he's a bigger and stronger fighter. He'll probably look to press Vannata and win from inside by forcing that brawl. Medeiros could get in trouble though because he's not great defensively, he's the type to walk through damage and wear his opponent out. That could get him kicked in the head if he's not careful...he might not stay down anyway though.

Michael Perreira vs Diego Sanchez: Michel Perreira is the dude that does cartwheels and backflips into kicks and punches. He's super athletic and hits hard as hell, but wastes a TON of energy...but he's wildly entertaining to watch. Diego Sanchez, you know him...he's been brawling since he won the very first TUF. Sanchez has aged and lost a big step, but his toughness and cardio has still helped him to some wins over decent competition. This is a madman that hates going backwards against a similarly crazy dude that never stays still.

I see this going one of two ways. Early finish for Perreira who does some craziness and scores a highlight..or Diego weathering the storm and beating the hell out of an exhausted Perreira from the second round on. Unless Michel has really changed his approach, I don't ever see his cardio holding up. That said, Diego doesn't move well enough or have the strength for me to be confident he'll last. I'm actually leaning toward the highlight reel KO.

Other fighters worth watching...Macy Chiasson is a really interesting prospect with just 6 fights in WMMA total. She's been fighting in the UFC since her second pro fight and has real striking chops. Nathaniel Wood, the Prospect, is fighting a massive test in John Dodson. He hasn't lost since he was 22 years old and looks like a modern MMA fighter through and through. Jim Miller, Ray Borg and Montana De La Rosa aren't prospects but they're usually in entertaining fights too plus both Montana and Borg still have a bit of upside. Honestly, this card has a lot of potential. They shoulda had a couple of these fights on the Jones card.


Really excited for that Vannata vs Medieros which should be a fun stand up fight of two guys that that love to stand and bang and throw crazy kicks and whatever else. Both also have good ground games but would rather stand. C.Anderson has an unbelievable chin and great stand up and wrestling and Blachowitz has good hands so should also be a good fight and as you said he lost the 1st fight so he knows he has to win this one. I thought Andersons last fight against the up and coming Johhny Walker was gonna be a good one but Anderson looked great and TKO'd him in the 1st round.

It's one of those cards that aren't the best looking on paper but those are usually the cards that have the best fights.

I'm actually looking forward to the next card cause i wanna see that P.Felder vs Dan Hooker which i would think will be another stand up war.

UFC 248 now is on another level as long as Romero makes weight. That whole card is great on paper.

I don't know about anyone else but me and my buddies are really missing FS1 having the fights. This streaming crap sucks. I hate when it goes blurry cause of course we like to be our own judges during fights but when it goes blurry of course you can't see if a strike was significant or not. It has gotten better but still happens once in a while. Also miss being able to watch the post fight show right there on FS1 after the fights at 1:00am. We use Firestick and it's just annoying all the buffering and crap you gotta go through to get to them. The whole thing annoys us but ESPN is paying the UFC so much damn money to have them that we're pretty sure it's something we'll just have to deal with for a while.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 247 Jon Jones vs undefeated Dominick Reyes on Saturday 

Post#640 » by newyorker4ever » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:07 pm

j4remi wrote:
bringbackhoffa wrote:why is everyone ignoring Santos in these discussions, he also just lost to Jones, but unlike Reyes it was a split decision.


There's a decent amount of talk about Reyes vs Santos while the winner of the main event this weekend gets Jones next. I think Dom will get the immediate rematch, but I wouldn't be mad at Santos vs Reyes for a second shot at Jones. I think the main reason Thiago gets discounted is because no one expects him to get his legs back under him for real for a decent chunk of time. With how long he fought on that bum knee and his age, I'm a bit nervous that he won't be the same again.



Some could even say the first Jones vs Gustaffson fight could of gone to Gustaffson but Jones is very smart and look how easily he beat Gustaffson in their 2nd fight. Reyes and Santos both deserve and should eventually get rematches with Jones but i also really wanna see Adesanya fight Jones if they can meet at a catch weight or Adesanya can go to LHW cause no way is Jones going to MW. Adesanya has enough to worry about with Romero next up for him right now but i'd like to see him fight Jones before Jones gets too old.

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