Democratic Primary Thread: The Deuce

[Clyde_Style]

If whole governments (not the U.S.) and major businesses are hedging 2021 as a write-off it is reasonable to say their intel does not point to economic activity rebooting overnight like the Trump factions pretend would happen. It will not and there are plenty of smarter entities on the planet than the current klatch of politicized denialists presiding over the white house that say it could take anywhere from 2022 to 2024 for the global economy to find a stable footing.

IOW, smarter people see the implications as extending for years while these Trumpers run around yelling everything will be fine if we just re-open everything right now. It is a shrill cry of political desperation, not the voice of reason. We are not going to reboot in a few months. Anyone who claims this is either delusional or driven by purely political motives without any true concern for the outcome no matter how much they attempt to veil their motives as being for the greater good.

[robillionaire]

my position is listen to the scientists. i understand that's a controversial position in this day and age as we would rather listen to politicians and those who are acting primarily in their own economic interests but it has become clear that they are not prioritizing human lives

[GONYK]

Read on Twitter

[j4remi]

Take all the measures you want. Most are just posturing at this point, and harmful to people's health via the economic consequences of prolonging the shutdown.
As far as NYC is concerned the damage is done.
NYS already failed to act quickly and took measures that were directly harmful to some of the most vulnerable groups.

Now that we have reached herd immunity the only thing left for politicians to do is extend the economic bleeding in hopes a Biden presidency bails them out.

Please point me to data that actually shows antibodies at the percentages that would suggest NY State or NYC (the city not just one section of it) has reached herd immunity...not data that cases are down after a lockdown and mask mandate because those actions, actual antibodies based research.

If you can't find that because I don't think it exists; then at least go get me some peer reviewed research that's pointing to herd immunity established anywhere in America...or anywhere else in the world for that matter. If it's behind a paywall, just grab the citation (journal, issue, volume, title and author is fine) for me. I work with medical research resources all day, I'll be able to get a hold of it.

[frothbrain]

Take all the measures you want. Most are just posturing at this point, and harmful to people's health via the economic consequences of prolonging the shutdown.
As far as NYC is concerned the damage is done.
NYS already failed to act quickly and took measures that were directly harmful to some of the most vulnerable groups.

Now that we have reached herd immunity the only thing left for politicians to do is extend the economic bleeding in hopes a Biden presidency bails them out.

Please point me to data that actually shows antibodies at the percentages that would suggest NY State or NYC (the city not just one section of it) has reached herd immunity...not data that cases are down after a lockdown and mask mandate because those actions, actual antibodies based research.

If you can't find that because I don't think it exists; then at least go get me some peer reviewed research that's pointing to herd immunity established anywhere in America...or anywhere else in the world for that matter. If it's behind a paywall, just grab the citation (journal, issue, volume, title and author is fine) for me. I work with medical research resources all day, I'll be able to get a hold of it.

Ah yes the "lockdown" while protests have been going on for months now and those cloth masks that people wear around their chin straps half the time. Surely your reasoning is correct for the dramatic drop off.
This article cites specific regions and their antibody percentages.
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-could-it-be-burning-out-after-20-of-a-population-is-infected-141584

[j4remi]

Take all the measures you want. Most are just posturing at this point, and harmful to people's health via the economic consequences of prolonging the shutdown.
As far as NYC is concerned the damage is done.
NYS already failed to act quickly and took measures that were directly harmful to some of the most vulnerable groups.

Now that we have reached herd immunity the only thing left for politicians to do is extend the economic bleeding in hopes a Biden presidency bails them out.

Please point me to data that actually shows antibodies at the percentages that would suggest NY State or NYC (the city not just one section of it) has reached herd immunity...not data that cases are down after a lockdown and mask mandate because those actions, actual antibodies based research.

If you can't find that because I don't think it exists; then at least go get me some peer reviewed research that's pointing to herd immunity established anywhere in America...or anywhere else in the world for that matter. If it's behind a paywall, just grab the citation (journal, issue, volume, title and author is fine) for me. I work with medical research resources all day, I'll be able to get a hold of it.

Ah yes the "lockdown" while protests have been going on for months now and those cloth masks that people wear around their chin straps half the time. Surely your reasoning is correct for the dramatic drop off.
This article cites specific regions and their antibody percentages.
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-could-it-be-burning-out-after-20-of-a-population-is-infected-141584

Is it safe to assume you don't have any peer reviewed research to cite which is why you just grabbed a random article? Because that's not what I asked for....

[frothbrain]

Please point me to data that actually shows antibodies at the percentages that would suggest NY State or NYC (the city not just one section of it) has reached herd immunity...not data that cases are down after a lockdown and mask mandate because those actions, actual antibodies based research.

If you can't find that because I don't think it exists; then at least go get me some peer reviewed research that's pointing to herd immunity established anywhere in America...or anywhere else in the world for that matter. If it's behind a paywall, just grab the citation (journal, issue, volume, title and author is fine) for me. I work with medical research resources all day, I'll be able to get a hold of it.

Ah yes the "lockdown" while protests have been going on for months now and those cloth masks that people wear around their chin straps half the time. Surely your reasoning is correct for the dramatic drop off.
This article cites specific regions and their antibody percentages.
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-could-it-be-burning-out-after-20-of-a-population-is-infected-141584

Is it safe to assume you don't have any peer reviewed research to cite which is why you just grabbed a random article? Because that's not what I asked for....

I'll post peer review research when you do so, showing antibodies percentages don't exist in any meaningful amount. Oh wait you don't have any? But you have access to all the journals as part of your job...

[Clyde_Style]

Ah yes the "lockdown" while protests have been going on for months now and those cloth masks that people wear around their chin straps half the time. Surely your reasoning is correct for the dramatic drop off.
This article cites specific regions and their antibody percentages.
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-could-it-be-burning-out-after-20-of-a-population-is-infected-141584

Is it safe to assume you don't have any peer reviewed research to cite which is why you just grabbed a random article? Because that's not what I asked for....

I'll post peer review research when you do so, showing antibodies percentages don't exist in any meaningful amount. Oh wait you don't have any? But you have access to all the journals as part of your job...

You make an assertion

You cannot prove your assertion

So you revert to demanding people disprove your assertion

That is not debate. It is gas lighting.

You're not a credible person in the least.

You have zero evidence of herd immunity so the burden of proof is upon you

As if scientific researchers are busy rolling up their sleeves proving herd immunity doesn't exist in order to satisfy your argument. Once again, you prove you have zero grasp of how scientific research is tabulated and compiled.

Please go on educating us with your "Facts" though. It is truly fascinating watching your gears spin

[frothbrain]

Is it safe to assume you don't have any peer reviewed research to cite which is why you just grabbed a random article? Because that's not what I asked for....

I'll post peer review research when you do so, showing antibodies percentages don't exist in any meaningful amount. Oh wait you don't have any? But you have access to all the journals as part of your job...

You make an assertion

You cannot prove your assertion

So you revert to demanding people disprove your assertion

That is not debate. It is gas lighting.

You're not a credible person in the least.

You have zero evidence of herd immunity so the burden of proof is upon you

As if scientific researchers are busy rolling up their sleeves proving herd immunity doesn't exist in order to satisfy your argument. Once again, you prove you have zero grasp of how scientific research is tabulated and compiled.

Please go on educating us with your "Facts" though. It is truly fascinating watching your gears spin

You make an assertion

You cannot prove your assertion

You cannot provide any evidence to support your assertion.

I have evidence. I have posted evidence. On the contrary you have not.

That article states Stockholm's tested antibody % and their sharp decline without practicing any of the shutdown measures you,jerami and the like are praising as the cause of the reduction while also providing 0 evidence to support it.

[j4remi]

Ah yes the "lockdown" while protests have been going on for months now and those cloth masks that people wear around their chin straps half the time. Surely your reasoning is correct for the dramatic drop off.
This article cites specific regions and their antibody percentages.
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-could-it-be-burning-out-after-20-of-a-population-is-infected-141584

Is it safe to assume you don't have any peer reviewed research to cite which is why you just grabbed a random article? Because that's not what I asked for....

I'll post peer review research when you do so, showing antibodies percentages don't exist in any meaningful amount. Oh wait you don't have any? But you have access to all the journals as part of your job...

Actually I had a pubmed article all about herd immunity with a solid simplified threshold (67%) projected for you all nice and ready straight outta pubmed which has a ton of free research for you to explore.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7236739/

Now it’s your turn...is nyc at 67% immunity or approaching it?

[robillionaire]

i don't have a problem if someone wants to speculate that maybe there's herd immunity, it's an interesting topic and perhaps one day you will be proven correct, but until then that's all it is, speculation, not something on which we should be basing policy when there are countless lives at risk if you are wrong, we need this to be confirmed before we send people out to die

[frothbrain]

So we've gone from denying herd immunity to arguing the % necessary for it to kick in. I'll take it.

[frothbrain]

i don't have a problem if someone wants to speculate that maybe there's herd immunity, it's an interesting topic and perhaps one day you will be proven correct, but until then that's all it is, speculation, not something on which we should be basing policy when there are countless lives at risk if you are wrong, we need this to be confirmed before we send people out to die

How can this be proven one way or the other when the governor refuses to follow the outlined reopening schedule?
He is deliberately banning businesses from operating outdoors due to the popularity of the establishments, without experiencing any spikes in cases.

Then you have Deblasio who won't allow transparency in contact tracing.

[Clyde_Style]

I'll post peer review research when you do so, showing antibodies percentages don't exist in any meaningful amount. Oh wait you don't have any? But you have access to all the journals as part of your job...

You make an assertion

You cannot prove your assertion

So you revert to demanding people disprove your assertion

That is not debate. It is gas lighting.

You're not a credible person in the least.

You have zero evidence of herd immunity so the burden of proof is upon you

As if scientific researchers are busy rolling up their sleeves proving herd immunity doesn't exist in order to satisfy your argument. Once again, you prove you have zero grasp of how scientific research is tabulated and compiled.

Please go on educating us with your "Facts" though. It is truly fascinating watching your gears spin

You make an assertion

You cannot prove your assertion

You cannot provide any evidence to support your assertion.

I have evidence. I have posted evidence. On the contrary you have not.

That article states Stockholm's tested antibody % and their sharp decline without practicing any of the shutdown measures you,jerami and the like are praising as the cause of the reduction while also providing 0 evidence to support it.

Project, lie, evade.

You're a Trump clone alright.

[frothbrain]

You make an assertion

You cannot prove your assertion

So you revert to demanding people disprove your assertion

That is not debate. It is gas lighting.

You're not a credible person in the least.

You have zero evidence of herd immunity so the burden of proof is upon you

As if scientific researchers are busy rolling up their sleeves proving herd immunity doesn't exist in order to satisfy your argument. Once again, you prove you have zero grasp of how scientific research is tabulated and compiled.

Please go on educating us with your "Facts" though. It is truly fascinating watching your gears spin

You make an assertion

You cannot prove your assertion

You cannot provide any evidence to support your assertion.

I have evidence. I have posted evidence. On the contrary you have not.

That article states Stockholm's tested antibody % and their sharp decline without practicing any of the shutdown measures you,jerami and the like are praising as the cause of the reduction while also providing 0 evidence to support it.

Project, lie, evade.

You're a Trump clone alright.

The hypocrisy is unreal.
Save face. stop replying and accept you are a dunce who doesn't have a high school level understanding of biology.

[Clyde_Style]

i don't have a problem if someone wants to speculate that maybe there's herd immunity, it's an interesting topic and perhaps one day you will be proven correct, but until then that's all it is, speculation, not something on which we should be basing policy when there are countless lives at risk if you are wrong, we need this to be confirmed before we send people out to die

It is speculation posturing as truth.

It's bile and it's vile

[Clyde_Style]

You make an assertion

You cannot prove your assertion

You cannot provide any evidence to support your assertion.

I have evidence. I have posted evidence. On the contrary you have not.

That article states Stockholm's tested antibody % and their sharp decline without practicing any of the shutdown measures you,jerami and the like are praising as the cause of the reduction while also providing 0 evidence to support it.

Project, lie, evade.

You're a Trump clone alright.

The hypocrisy is unreal.
Save face. stop replying and accept you are a dunce who doesn't have a high school level understanding of biology.

OK clown, are you going to sing us Sam Cooke songs now?

Everybody here has asked you for the medical literature and you can't provide it

Why is that?

Maybe because it doesn't exist

But, sure, go ahead and attack me some more as if that gets you off

Facts? You've got nothing, but carry on

[Clyde_Style]

This guy is Exhibit A for the Dunning-Kruger Effect

[j4remi]

So we've gone from denying herd immunity to arguing the % necessary for it to kick in. I'll take it.

We've gone from "show me NYC has reached the herd immunity threshold" to "research suggests 67% is a safe target for herd immunity." Now do you have something suggesting NYC or NY is at 67% immunity? Has any region gotten that high? do you have some actual scientific sources that suggest the threshold is low enough that NY has reached it?

If your answer is no, that's fine just stop equating your opinions to expert opinions. The figures can be debated, I just highly doubt anything's gotten through peer review that actually sets a threshold low enough for NY or NYC to reach it.

[robillionaire]

i don't have a problem if someone wants to speculate that maybe there's herd immunity, it's an interesting topic and perhaps one day you will be proven correct, but until then that's all it is, speculation, not something on which we should be basing policy when there are countless lives at risk if you are wrong, we need this to be confirmed before we send people out to die

How can this be proven one way or the other when the governor refuses to follow the outlined reopening schedule?
He is deliberately banning businesses from operating outdoors due to the popularity of the establishments, without experiencing any spikes in cases.

this is like if we were standing on the edge of a cliff and I told you if you jump there are invisible magic fairies at the bottom that would catch you, you doubt me and ask for proof before you do it and then I say well how can I prove it to you if you won't jump off the cliff and find out? It's not my concern what mechanism they use to demonstrate it but until someone does, namely actual medical experts in the field, and they corroborate what you're saying, I'm not jumping, but the difference is it's not just one person it's potentially millions of people. and the medical experts aren't saying the virus is over we have herd immunity and we can all go back to normal now, they're saying the opposite