knicks lose....i blame mpharris who blames thibs

[Gravy]

By the way, most of the time I'm not necessarily defending Thibs the person. Fans have scapegoated every coach. I feel I'm defending common sense. Like saying the Celtics have a better roster, losing a close game is better than getting blown out, or that crazy Kolek week lol.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

So instead of losing by 2 you want us to get blown out again with KAT bricking threes all night? yeah I dont see how that is better

Ah, so the 42% three point shooter is going to brick every three, maybe the coach should come up with better plays for him


I see that was your championship and an actual moral victory, nasty work. I guess some of you really want to hang the banner "Kept it under 40 against the Celtics 2024-2025".

He had one of his best offensive games of the season, you're just making up things to hate Thibs

We lost, we took 14 more shots than them, made more 2 pointers than them, and because they were +24 from three, they won.

KAT's highest game scores this season, his actual best games and not the Gravy ratings, are games in which he averages almost 8 threes per game.

[HEZI]

What’s the end game though? KAT is averaging 24 ppg and he’s never averaged more than 26 one year as the 1st option. Hes having one of his best seasons in terms of efficiency. Even if he took more 3s, he’s not just going to be scoring more points all of a sudden. That’s not how it works. Just like how the Knicks are still 9th in the league in scoring 116 ppg and despite the Celtics taking all time record in 3s they are still 8th in the league in scoring with 116.4 barely ahead of the Knicks.

By the way I’m not against us shooting more 3s but I also like to see a more balanced attack and not just chucking up 3s to get them up. I do think having another guy who can shoot to replace Hart would definitely benefit the team.

[Gravy]

All season long I heard that Mitch would not make a 30 pt difference in us getting blown out by the top teams. But as soon as the team is healthy for only the 2nd game all year we take the Celtics to overtime in a toss up game. The roster was a much bigger issue than y'all wanted to believe.

you beat me to this, every time I said Mitch, "30 point difference doesn't come from 1 guy being out" pretty clear it does.

Man you guys are delusional. Sure Mitch was an impact but let's be real he played 16 minutes out of a possible 53. He wasn't the difference maker. Knicks went to KAT early and finally in game 79 of the damn season Thibs lets KAT post up the smaller defenders and it worked wonders. KAT single handedly kept us going for 3 quarters. The Knicks offense and aggressiveness looked different last game than what we have seen all season. That was the difference maker.

To be honest if you can package Mitch and Mikal in the off-season for Booker or the likes then you gotta do it.

no no no, Nodope said that was wrong and KAT should have been spamming threes over KP instead

[NoDopeOnSundays]

you beat me to this, every time I said Mitch, "30 point difference doesn't come from 1 guy being out" pretty clear it does.

Man you guys are delusional. Sure Mitch was an impact but let's be real he played 16 minutes out of a possible 53. He wasn't the difference maker. Knicks went to KAT early and finally in game 79 of the damn season Thibs lets KAT post up the smaller defenders and it worked wonders. KAT single handedly kept us going for 3 quarters. The Knicks offense and aggressiveness looked different last game than what we have seen all season. That was the difference maker.

To be honest if you can package Mitch and Mikal in the off-season for Booker or the likes then you gotta do it.

no no no, I find it funny how Nodope said that was wrong and KAT should have been spamming threes over KP instead

You're like a scorned ex girlfriend. It would be better if you started your posts with -


"I find it funny how" and then go from there, I added the red edit so that your post works better.


Gravy said that we'd be better if we ran post ups only and never took any threes at all!! See how dumb that is?

[Chanel Bomber]

the problem is that we don't have anybody on the team who prefers taking 3s to anything else. we had that with donte but we don't now. everybody would rather penetrate. thibs has said many times that he wants corner 3s and shots at the rim because he's following the analytics. it's up to them to take them.

The corner three is easier to defend now, you're making a case against Thibs by even saying that, he's using old concepts . The Celtics shoot most of their threes above the break, as do the Cavs and Thunder. The Celtics have taken nearly 3000 threes from the wings and top of the key, roughly 800 from the corners. A bulk of threes on elite teams come from the wings now, because the goal is to extend the opponents' defense.


We have Brunson and KAT and yet Pritchard and KP have combined for more threes off a screen than them.

Isn't the increase of above the break 3s also a byproduct of defenses "over-defending" the corner 3, meaning the corner 3 still has just as much value but is opening gaps elsewhere due to the attention that it draws?

One thing that will not go away is the need for space. Having someone in the corner who shoots at a high percentage still holds a lot of value in providing spacing and having defenses overstretching imo.

There's a reason why players with limited skill sets have been prominent actors on championship teams through generations (Fisher, Bowen, Horry, Battier, KCP, Tucker etc.). There are roles that need to be filled and that - when filled effectively - enable the stars to have a greater impact.

Although he had limitations on defense, Divo was that guy for us last year. They didn't replace him in the offseason. Mikal may be a better player in a vacuum, but Divo was better at that role.

That said, I agree the lack of 3-point volume from KAT is hardly excusable and the responsibility falls on Thibs. It's a failure by the coach to take advantage of arguably the team's greatest comparative advantage. We're in full agreement there.

[Fury]

The issue with Bridges isn't that he isn't shooting corner 3s. Nearly half of his 3 pointers are corner 3s. More than Divo last year. It's just that he isn't shooting enough 3s elsewhere. Divo shot 3s from all over the court.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

the problem is that we don't have anybody on the team who prefers taking 3s to anything else. we had that with donte but we don't now. everybody would rather penetrate. thibs has said many times that he wants corner 3s and shots at the rim because he's following the analytics. it's up to them to take them.

The corner three is easier to defend now, you're making a case against Thibs by even saying that, he's using old concepts . The Celtics shoot most of their threes above the break, as do the Cavs and Thunder. The Celtics have taken nearly 3000 threes from the wings and top of the key, roughly 800 from the corners. A bulk of threes on elite teams come from the wings now, because the goal is to extend the opponents' defense.


We have Brunson and KAT and yet Pritchard and KP have combined for more threes off a screen than them.

Isn't the increase of above the break 3s also a byproduct of defenses "over-defending" the corner 3, meaning the corner 3 still has just as much value but is opening gaps elsewhere due to the attention that they draw?

One thing that will not go away is the need for space. Having someone in the corner who shoots at a high percentage still holds a lot of value in providing spacing and having defenses overstretching imo.

There's a reason why players with limited skill sets have been prominent actors on championship teams through generations (Fisher, Bowen, Horry, Battier, KCP, Tucker etc.). There are roles that need to be filled and that - when filled effectively - enable the stars to have a greater impact.

Although he had limitations on defense, Divo was that guy for us last year. They didn't replace him in the offseason. Mikal may be a better player in a vacuum, but Divo was better at that role.

That said, I agree the lack of 3-point volume from KAT is hardly excusable and the responsibility falls on Thibs. It's a failure by the coach to take advantage of arguably the team's greatest comparative advantage. We're in full agreement there.

The thing is, you can still get threes even with a non shooter on the floor if you're willing to extend where your offense starts. We don't do that, we still play at the 3 point line most of the time. A lot of these teams have extended where they start setting screens, basically copying the Warriors really.





The Celtics were generating looks from three with Luke Kornet in the corner and Jrue in the other (.355%). OG had to worry about Tatum maybe setting a screen there at 30 feet for White, it was a play with multiple options and the 3 best players involved. I don't even know if we've run action like that with a screen by KAT at 26 feet for OG, have you seen it? Cause I'm trying to remember, but then I recall that video from a month ago that said we only had 10 threes for KAT off a screen, so probably not.

[Chanel Bomber]

The corner three is easier to defend now, you're making a case against Thibs by even saying that, he's using old concepts . The Celtics shoot most of their threes above the break, as do the Cavs and Thunder. The Celtics have taken nearly 3000 threes from the wings and top of the key, roughly 800 from the corners. A bulk of threes on elite teams come from the wings now, because the goal is to extend the opponents' defense.


We have Brunson and KAT and yet Pritchard and KP have combined for more threes off a screen than them.

Isn't the increase of above the break 3s also a byproduct of defenses "over-defending" the corner 3, meaning the corner 3 still has just as much value but is opening gaps elsewhere due to the attention that they draw?

One thing that will not go away is the need for space. Having someone in the corner who shoots at a high percentage still holds a lot of value in providing spacing and having defenses overstretching imo.

There's a reason why players with limited skill sets have been prominent actors on championship teams through generations (Fisher, Bowen, Horry, Battier, KCP, Tucker etc.). There are roles that need to be filled and that - when filled effectively - enable the stars to have a greater impact.

Although he had limitations on defense, Divo was that guy for us last year. They didn't replace him in the offseason. Mikal may be a better player in a vacuum, but Divo was better at that role.

That said, I agree the lack of 3-point volume from KAT is hardly excusable and the responsibility falls on Thibs. It's a failure by the coach to take advantage of arguably the team's greatest comparative advantage. We're in full agreement there.

The thing is, you can still get threes even with a non shooter on the floor if you're willing to extend where your offense starts. We don't do that, we still play at the 3 point line most of the time. A lot of these teams have extended where they start setting screens, basically copying the Warriors really.





The Celtics were generating looks from three with Luke Kornet in the corner and Jrue in the other (.355%). OG had to worry about Tatum maybe setting a screen there at 30 feet, it was a play with multiple options and the 3 best players involved. I don't even know if we've run action like that with a screen by KAT at 26 feet for OG, have you seen it? Cause I'm trying to remember, but then I recall that video from a month ago that said we only had 10 threes for KAT off a screen, so probably not.

It's definitely a problem. My point was moreso that it doesn't diminish the impact of the corner shooter, both as an output and as a space (and efficiency) enhancer.

Towns is one of the best shooters in the NBA, is 7-feet tall, and can shoot from the logo. I may not be as harsh on Thibs as you are, but this team's primary (secondary at worst) tactical goal should be to generate threes for KAT. Coming off screens, pick-and-roll, catch and shoot, the whole thing. Thibs has an Arri Alexa in his hands but his lighting sucks and his framing is basic af.

[Chanel Bomber]

The issue with Bridges isn't that he isn't shooting corner 3s. Nearly half of his 3 pointers are corner 3s. More than Divo last year. It's just that he isn't shooting enough 3s elsewhere. Divo shot 3s from all over the court.

Divo was also great at moving without the ball. I thought he also had more range, in addition to the quick trigger.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Isn't the increase of above the break 3s also a byproduct of defenses "over-defending" the corner 3, meaning the corner 3 still has just as much value but is opening gaps elsewhere due to the attention that they draw?

One thing that will not go away is the need for space. Having someone in the corner who shoots at a high percentage still holds a lot of value in providing spacing and having defenses overstretching imo.

There's a reason why players with limited skill sets have been prominent actors on championship teams through generations (Fisher, Bowen, Horry, Battier, KCP, Tucker etc.). There are roles that need to be filled and that - when filled effectively - enable the stars to have a greater impact.

Although he had limitations on defense, Divo was that guy for us last year. They didn't replace him in the offseason. Mikal may be a better player in a vacuum, but Divo was better at that role.

That said, I agree the lack of 3-point volume from KAT is hardly excusable and the responsibility falls on Thibs. It's a failure by the coach to take advantage of arguably the team's greatest comparative advantage. We're in full agreement there.

The thing is, you can still get threes even with a non shooter on the floor if you're willing to extend where your offense starts. We don't do that, we still play at the 3 point line most of the time. A lot of these teams have extended where they start setting screens, basically copying the Warriors really.





The Celtics were generating looks from three with Luke Kornet in the corner and Jrue in the other (.355%). OG had to worry about Tatum maybe setting a screen there at 30 feet, it was a play with multiple options and the 3 best players involved. I don't even know if we've run action like that with a screen by KAT at 26 feet for OG, have you seen it? Cause I'm trying to remember, but then I recall that video from a month ago that said we only had 10 threes for KAT off a screen, so probably not.

It's definitely a problem. My point was moreso that it doesn't diminish the impact of the corner shooter, both as an output and as a space (and efficiency) enhancer.

Towns is one of the best shooters in the NBA, is 7-feet tall, and can shoot from the logo. I may not be as harsh on Thibs as you are, but this team's primary (secondary at worst) tactical goal should be to generate threes for KAT. Coming off screens, pick-and-roll, catch and shoot, the whole thing. Thibs has an Arri Alexa in his hands but his lighting sucks and his framing is basic af.

I can't find any data on KAT, but Kristaps average three point shot is 27 feet, which is just how they've been able to extend the floor. It doesn't diminish, but the corner three for the Celtics is secondary to the wing threes, because they get you to guard further out if they're generating wing, so the middle is open as well. The corner three is still important, but it doesn't break team defense like it did a decade ago.

We fundamentally agree though, I'm not diminishing the corner three, just that the elites hunt the wing three more now.


We used to have such classic duels, debating like gentlemen, without the need for extreme hyperbole unless it was me describing the outfit you wore to fashion week....which was most likely Ostrich feather jeans by Rick Owens, and a 1 of 1 Silk shirt made by a tibetan man you met in Sri Lanka.

[Gravy]

Man you guys are delusional. Sure Mitch was an impact but let's be real he played 16 minutes out of a possible 53. He wasn't the difference maker. Knicks went to KAT early and finally in game 79 of the damn season Thibs lets KAT post up the smaller defenders and it worked wonders. KAT single handedly kept us going for 3 quarters. The Knicks offense and aggressiveness looked different last game than what we have seen all season. That was the difference maker.

To be honest if you can package Mitch and Mikal in the off-season for Booker or the likes then you gotta do it.

no no no, I find it funny how Nodope said that was wrong and KAT should have been spamming threes over KP instead

You're like a scorned ex girlfriend. It would be better if you started your posts with -


"I find it funny how" and then go from there, I added the red edit so that your post works better.


Gravy said that we'd be better if we ran post ups only and never took any threes at all!! See how dumb that is?

KAT himself said he's good in the post at 6:20 when reporters asked him about attacking their wings. Thats what he wanted to do and it worked in this game. OG, Hart, Deuce and Mikal were 4-19 from three. Dont you think their lack of 3pt shooting was a far bigger reason for the loss instead of deflecting to the guy who had a great game

Watch on YouTube

[Chanel Bomber]

The thing is, you can still get threes even with a non shooter on the floor if you're willing to extend where your offense starts. We don't do that, we still play at the 3 point line most of the time. A lot of these teams have extended where they start setting screens, basically copying the Warriors really.





The Celtics were generating looks from three with Luke Kornet in the corner and Jrue in the other (.355%). OG had to worry about Tatum maybe setting a screen there at 30 feet, it was a play with multiple options and the 3 best players involved. I don't even know if we've run action like that with a screen by KAT at 26 feet for OG, have you seen it? Cause I'm trying to remember, but then I recall that video from a month ago that said we only had 10 threes for KAT off a screen, so probably not.

It's definitely a problem. My point was moreso that it doesn't diminish the impact of the corner shooter, both as an output and as a space (and efficiency) enhancer.

Towns is one of the best shooters in the NBA, is 7-feet tall, and can shoot from the logo. I may not be as harsh on Thibs as you are, but this team's primary (secondary at worst) tactical goal should be to generate threes for KAT. Coming off screens, pick-and-roll, catch and shoot, the whole thing. Thibs has an Arri Alexa in his hands but his lighting sucks and his framing is basic af.

I can't find any data on KAT, but Kristaps average three point shot is 27 feet, which is just how they've been able to extend the floor. It doesn't diminish, but the corner three for the Celtics is secondary to the wing threes, because they get you to guard further out if they're generating wing, so the middle is open as well. The corner three is still important, but it doesn't break team defense like it did a decade ago.

We fundamentally agree though, I'm not diminishing the corner three, just that the elites hunt the wing three more now.


We used to have such classic duels, debating like gentlemen, without the need for extreme hyperbole unless it was me describing the outfit you wore to fashion week....which was most likely Ostrich feather jeans by Rick Owens, and a 1 of 1 Silk shirt made by a tibetan man you met in Sri Lanka.

I miss those days.

Now even the digs feel like compliments. Did we just finish the game? Is this the credits?

Also, yes, you're right, spacing is not just left to right but also north to south. I remember talks of vertical spacing when rim runners were in vogue as teams started running more and more pick-and-rolls. It was an interesting (and largely valid) concept, but of course it became outdated to some degree as teams now require more than just rim pressure from their 5. But I think the idea could still be leveraged in other ways.

[thebuzzardman]

The issue with Bridges isn't that he isn't shooting corner 3s. Nearly half of his 3 pointers are corner 3s. More than Divo last year. It's just that he isn't shooting enough 3s elsewhere. Divo shot 3s from all over the court.

Divo was also great at moving without the ball. I thought he also had more range, in addition to the quick trigger.

Mikal moves really well without the ball too

[sol537]

This team has the roster and health to be a 60-win team this season but Thibs has us finishing 8-10 games worse than our true potential.

[Fury]

The issue with Bridges isn't that he isn't shooting corner 3s. Nearly half of his 3 pointers are corner 3s. More than Divo last year. It's just that he isn't shooting enough 3s elsewhere. Divo shot 3s from all over the court.

Divo was also great at moving without the ball. I thought he also had more range, in addition to the quick trigger.

That was an underrated feature in the offense. It was kind of like the second thing they relied on the most after Brunson trying to score, just give it to Divo anywhere on the court and let him shoot it real quick.

[prophet_of_rage]

you beat me to this, every time I said Mitch, "30 point difference doesn't come from 1 guy being out" pretty clear it does.

Man you guys are delusional. Sure Mitch was an impact but let's be real he played 16 minutes out of a possible 53. He wasn't the difference maker. Knicks went to KAT early and finally in game 79 of the damn season Thibs lets KAT post up the smaller defenders and it worked wonders. KAT single handedly kept us going for 3 quarters. The Knicks offense and aggressiveness looked different last game than what we have seen all season. That was the difference maker.

To be honest if you can package Mitch and Mikal in the off-season for Booker or the likes then you gotta do it.

I mean common sense would have dictated on opening night that the Celtics have no one to defend KAT so you urge him to attack them early. But **** show Thibs had him standing around at the 3 point line taking 3 shots a half and needed 79 games to figure out what any sensible person would have done right away.

The rest is just pure comedy. You have Mitch playing 16minutes and the guy is talking about 30point difference all while Brown basically does not play the second half and Horford is out. Pure comedy. These post game comments just reveal who is watching the actual games and who isn't.

The Knicks barely had training camp. Watch out next year!

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[prophet_of_rage]

All the negativity idk why some ppl are even Knick fans man. I swear some would rather us lose so they could complain rather then us win.

If ppl didn't support the team, they wouldn't waste their time criticizing. You're allowed to complain about the shortfalls of your team and still be a fan.

Or do we have to forever defend every single thing they do?

You don't need.to find the negative in everything either. That isn't love. That is just coping with reality.

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[prophet_of_rage]

That’s what he did in the wcf and look what happened I rather him feast down low in the block like he did last night

Florida education system has failed my boy

3 > 2

KAT in the post would work better if he had four 3 point shooters to fan it out to. Rather than the center guarding Hart to be free to double KAT

Hart wouldn't basket cut? He's Forced to shoot the 3?

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[Spree2Houston]

What’s the end game though? KAT is averaging 24 ppg and he’s never averaged more than 26 one year as the 1st option. Hes having one of his best seasons in terms of efficiency. Even if he took more 3s, he’s not just going to be scoring more points all of a sudden. That’s not how it works. Just like how the Knicks are still 9th in the league in scoring 116 ppg and despite the Celtics taking all time record in 3s they are still 8th in the league in scoring with 116.4 barely ahead of the Knicks.

By the way I’m not against us shooting more 3s but I also like to see a more balanced attack and not just chucking up 3s to get them up. I do think having another guy who can shoot to replace Hart would definitely benefit the team.

I agree. I don’t know if chucking up more 3s will make the team better. The real issue is defending the 3ball. Teams will shoot above their average and makes in 3s when they play us. All of that adds up in the final score. If we actually defended the 3ball better while staying the same offensively we probably would have 55 wins right now.